Next Laptop - This Applies to us as all

I am traveling with an almost 4 year-old Dell XPS 15 4K touch laptop that I paid almost 4 grand for back then. It was loaded with everything you can get, and to this day it flies through normal LR editing of GFX files.

However, it is not AI capable and lags severely on any LR AI on board masking or noise reduction task, which does the grinding on the CPU and GPU.

There were no on-board Neural Processing Units (NPU) back then.... Well, there were no NPUs even 6 months ago.

But there are now.

Intel just came out with Meteor Lake for laptops, and I was going to upgrade now, but at Computex they just announced Lunar Lake laptops for an October release, and they will be much more powerful and power efficient with an NPU that cranks 50 or more TOPS and all kinds of other architectural major changes that will represent a major generational upgrade.

Intel’s Lunar Lake will come with four much more powerful and efficient P-Cores and four E-cores and a 40% overall reduction in SoC power over the current Meteor Lake. There will be no hyperthreading (running more than 1 thread on a single CPU core). P Cores are faster on Lunar Lake and will make up the difference.

Note: QUALCOMM Snapdragon X Elite is out next week and beats the current Meteor Lake laptops but will be way behind Lunar Lake 4 months from now.

Lunar Lake laptops must have at least 2 TB 4 ports, Wi-Fi 7 and Bluetooth 5.4.

So, I must wait and am so glad I did not pull the trigger on a Meteor Lake laptop.

Lunar Lake will be where it's at for Windows laptops. Apple? Those are great but a different subject. If you are Apple, stay Apple. You guys have it good.

Note: Also out in October will be the new Intel PC architecture - Arrow Lake - the biggest Intel upgrade in 25 years. It will smoke the current Raptor Lake Refresh top-end PC I just built 5 months ago and will have massive on-board AI power and capability and several major generational upgrades. Will I build again in a year? Tempting....

The interesting thing will be LR. The new AI capabilities in the Classic version will require on board AI computational capability. That means we need new computers soon with NPU AI computational capability! But that is true for Windows too. Microsoft is going to require it for their on-board Windows AI chat, search, voice assist and AI-generational capabilities.

On my current powerful laptop, it took me 14 minutes to run a noise reduction AI task in LR on a grainy image that I shot inside a cave last week. I bet the new Lunar Lake laptop I get late this year will do it in 3 seconds.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Maybe give Apple a try?

mujana said:

Maybe give Apple a try?

Click to expand...

Apple is great and I would like to be there but I'm a PC builder and Windows guy. If you build your own rigs there is no choice, If you game there is no choice. If you are price conscious with performane factors figured in there is no choice.

The competition between Intel, Apple (and their ARM chip suppliers), Samsung, AMD, Qualcom and others helps us all and it is moving very fast with AI.

We all as photographers will have to try to stay on top of this and we will all make our own desktop and laptop upgrade decisions, but it pays to stay informed. We will all have to upgrade at some point soon.

There is also a lot going on with servers and Xeon chips for guys like Jim.

--
Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

Greg7579 said:

mujana said:

Maybe give Apple a try?

Click to expand...

Apple is great and I would like to be there but I'm a PC builder and Windows guy. If you build your own rigs there is no choice, If you game there is no choice. If you are price conscious with performane factors figured in there is no choice.

The competition between Intel, Apple (and their ARM chip suppliers), Samsung, AMD, Qualcom and others helps us all and it is moving very fast with AI.

We all as photographers will have to try to stay on top of this and we will all make our own desktop and laptop upgrade decisions, but it pays to stay informed. We will all have to upgrade at some point soon.

There is also a lot going on with servers and Xeon chips for guys like Jim.

Click to expand...

When you look to the future, don't forget Windows on ARM.

Jim

JimKasson said:

Greg7579 said:

mujana said:

Maybe give Apple a try?

Click to expand...

Apple is great and I would like to be there but I'm a PC builder and Windows guy. If you build your own rigs there is no choice, If you game there is no choice. If you are price conscious with performane factors figured in there is no choice.

The competition between Intel, Apple (and their ARM chip suppliers), Samsung, AMD, Qualcom and others helps us all and it is moving very fast with AI.

We all as photographers will have to try to stay on top of this and we will all make our own desktop and laptop upgrade decisions, but it pays to stay informed. We will all have to upgrade at some point soon.

There is also a lot going on with servers and Xeon chips for guys like Jim.

Click to expand...

When you look to the future, don't forget Windows on ARM.

Jim

Click to expand...

Yes, in my original post I mentioned the QUALCOMM Snapdragon X Elite that comes out next week and will beat the current intel Meteor Lake mobile chips and unlike Apple ARM chips, it will run Windows.

Plus, Intel announced a deal last week where they will manufacture ARM chips for third party vendors. That was big news. Thise chip makers are doing crazy stuff and deals are flying around - especially in China as they move around sanctions.

I don't understand the science of the CPU and GPU, but I follow the chips and their updates like I follow cameras....

Don't bet against Intel. I like their stock in case anyone wants to know how I finance so many cameras.

And Apple? Apple has been very good to me. Nvidia? LOL! Thank y so much to that great company. But you might be late on those two. But Intel? Load up baby!

Your friendly tip for the day.

Hi,

I gave up on Apple once they decided to kick the IBM processors to the curb. Their only reason for being in my book. My wife the artist loves all the software she has which runs happily on the G5 and which won't run on anything newer. Most of those software companies went belly up prior to the processor change, so there was no hope of a newer version for anything she uses save the Adobe stuff.

I keep two G5s operational here. An early dual processor and a later dual core. She uses the newer one several times a week. I use the older one in my electronics lab to process the raw files from the two old Kodak DSLRs I use still. No need to update a machine for those and it keeps the old Mac percolating. Worst thing anyone can do is let electronics sit unused. Caps love to go bad just sitting....

Stan

If it has to be a laptop, I've become a fan over the years of the laptops built by Alienware, Dell's weirder sibling. For a couple of reasons:

They share an important attribute with the Dell Latitude line, that of being designed for service by the end user. Screen replacements, RAM upgrades, drive replacements and upgrades, maybe most important, battery replacements, all are handled with not that much more hassle than we used to put into a decent desktop (Ok, screen replacements are a hassle in that they involve essentially emptying the guts from below to get at the hinges, but I've done it on my kitchen table).

Another reason is the integration of graphics coprocessors on board, typically with a not-insignificant amount of their own RAM, measured in gigabytes and not drawn from the system RAM pool.

Another reason, a 17 inch Alienware will often have bays onboard for three disk drives, and again, user-upgradeable.

Finally, such systems run HOT. Dell has done a very good job of building robust cooling systems into their Alienware laptops, and have included utilities to monitor temperatures while the machine is chugging through a task.

So an Alienware is usually my home system, with a Microsoft Surface tucked into the travel bag for processing single images or small batches on the road: photos, yes, but also....

The Alienwares end up being great systems for one of my most peculiar sicknesses, astrophotography. I use a ZWO camera with a chilled sensor (in place of the eyepiece) on an 11 inch Schmidt Cassegrain, mounted on a GEM (German Equatorial Mount) with goto, tracking, and guiding.

It's not uncommon to take many dozens of sub-exposures, plus dark frames and flats, etc., to process through stacking (to improve signal to noise) into a single image. If you want to hear your computer's cooling system sound like a jet taking off, try stacking.

An Alienware can grind through a hundred image stack in a count of minutes (more minutes or fewer, depending on the image), as long as the cooling system can keep the poor thing from melting. Try it on a normal laptop and you can start it and then go out for dinner, it'll be a while...

I've also had good use of the systems from Alienware for video production and editing, as well as for DAWs (Digital Audio Workstations), in short, they're just good general purpose workstations for tasks involving more computational resources than browsing, email, or word processing.

I've no conflicting relation with the company. I just like their stuff.

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

I gave up on Apple once they decided to kick the IBM processors to the curb. Their only reason for being in my book.

Click to expand...

Uhhh ... have you seen Adobe benchmarks on M1, M2, and M3 series SOCs?

Stan Disbrow said:

My wife the artist loves all the software she has which runs happily on the G5 and which won't run on anything newer. Most of those software companies went belly up prior to the processor change, so there was no hope of a newer version for anything she uses save the Adobe stuff.

I keep two G5s operational here. An early dual processor and a later dual core. She uses the newer one several times a week. I use the older one in my electronics lab to process the raw files from the two old Kodak DSLRs I use still. No need to update a machine for those and it keeps the old Mac percolating. Worst thing anyone can do is let electronics sit unused. Caps love to go bad just sitting....

Stan

Click to expand...

I bet you could run that software in emulation . And at a higher performance level. Would be an interesting project.

The G5 has an advantage in winter ... it's the best space heater Apple ever made.

3 seconds might be a little optimistic but, less than 30 seconds might be achievable.



My Gigabyte Aero laptop will run Ps AI Denoise on the Fuji 100mp files in about 40 seconds. But I must have it plugged into AC for Ps to use the graphics card which makes a HUGE difference.

I understood nothing of this post, it sounded like a random collection of words. Then again, I have only two laptops. One is a 17" MacBook pro dating from about 2006, the other is a Sony vaio with a broken hinge currently running the open source version of ChromeOS I have forgotten the name of. Neither has been powered up for some years. So I guess I'm not one of "us".

Hi,

I can tell you, the G5 units we have run cooler as far as the temperature of the air exiting them than the G3 did.

Ah, well they work still. So no need to spend money on anything else. Yet, anyway.

As far as Adobe goes, I do Ok with Ps on an i5 Wintel box and she does Ok with Lr on an i7 Wintel box.

As far as heat goes, take a look at a Harris MW-50...... My benchmark for electronics spitting out BTUs.




Harris MW-50 50 kW AM broadcast transmitter



Stan

--
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

I can tell you, the G5 units we have run cooler as far as the temperature of the air exiting them than the G3 did.

Click to expand...

Look up the TDP of those chips. The numbers tell a different story. There's a reason they had to move to liquid cooling. And a reason they could never make a G5 laptop, despite IBM's half-hearted promises to design a low-power version.

Also notice the changes in the tower design when they moved to Intel. In the G5, almost half of the guts is the cooling system. There was room for only 1 optical drive and 2 hard drives. With the Intel Mac Pro, they could get rid of half the exhaust fans, then double the optical drive bays, and double the hard drive bays. In the same size and shape enclosure.

The G5s were awesome performers in their day. But a dead end. In the span of a couple of years Apple had gone from first to last place in performance-per-watt, and it was because IBM decided they were really just interested in making high-end server chips.

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

I gave up on Apple once they decided to kick the IBM processors to the curb.

Click to expand...

Remember Taligent? Talent, without the NT, and intelligent, without the Intel. That didn't work out so well.

Sorry no content to add, but….cool.

Those are powerful gaming laptops. ASUS, Corsair and several other companies make monster gaming laptops with huge GPUs and top-end specs that photographers crave.

But the problem is the screen are not 4K and they are too big, heavy, power hungry and bulky for serious travel. That is why XPS is the sweet spot for photographers.

It is insane for a photographer not to het a 4K screen on a laptop. Cardinal sin.

Do not buy a laptop without a 4K screen if you are a photographer - especially us! We are Medium Format Fiji GFX and Hassy high-res photographers.

Stan, come on Man....

[Content deleted by moderator]

--
Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

Greg7579 said:

mujana said:

Maybe give Apple a try?

Click to expand...

Apple is great and I would like to be there but I'm a PC builder and Windows guy. If you build your own rigs there is no choice, If you game there is no choice. If you are price conscious with performane factors figured in there is no choice.

The competition between Intel, Apple (and their ARM chip suppliers), Samsung, AMD, Qualcom and others helps us all and it is moving very fast with AI.

We all as photographers will have to try to stay on top of this and we will all make our own desktop and laptop upgrade decisions, but it pays to stay informed. We will all have to upgrade at some point soon.

There is also a lot going on with servers and Xeon chips for guys like Jim.

Click to expand...

I'm also a Windows Guy (and 100% Android only guy as I don't like iOS) and own several high-end Windows gaming PCs etc. but I've switched to Macbooks when it comes to Laptops and photo editing exclusively and I've never looked back.

MacOS is pretty good too and without the ridiculous iOS restrictions.

Very powerful and durable computers in my experience. Especially the newer ones with the M1/2/3.

EuronGreyjoy said:

Greg7579 said:

mujana said:

Maybe give Apple a try?

Click to expand...

Apple is great and I would like to be there but I'm a PC builder and Windows guy. If you build your own rigs there is no choice, If you game there is no choice. If you are price conscious with performane factors figured in there is no choice.

The competition between Intel, Apple (and their ARM chip suppliers), Samsung, AMD, Qualcom and others helps us all and it is moving very fast with AI.

We all as photographers will have to try to stay on top of this and we will all make our own desktop and laptop upgrade decisions, but it pays to stay informed. We will all have to upgrade at some point soon.

There is also a lot going on with servers and Xeon chips for guys like Jim.

Click to expand...

I'm also a Windows Guy (and 100% Android only guy as I don't like iOS) and own several high-end Windows gaming PCs etc. but I've switched to Macbooks when it comes to Laptops and photo editing exclusively and I've never looked back.

MacOS is pretty good too and without the ridiculous iOS restrictions.

Very powerful and durable computers in my experience. Especially the newer ones with the M1/2/3.

Click to expand...

They are outstanding. You can't go wrong with either. Windows has closed the usability gap with Apple, and it is just a preference thing now. Chips? That is going to seesaw back and forth and will benefit us all. Don't count Intel out. They are going to lead in several categories, and everything is changing rapidly with what is on deck and also AI....

But unlike you, I can't bring myself to switch to Apple for my photography needs. I just can't do both....

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Alienware does indeed offer laptops with 4k displays...

Hi,

There were more devices from Essex Junction than showed up in Macs. From my POV it was more of a case that Apple no longer wanted parts from IBM in their products.

Water cooling is always more efficient and so the temperature of the exiting airflow from the G5 is lower than from the G3 although about the same as from the G4. We had all three running at the same time at one point. The G3 hit the recycle heap long ago but the G4 is still here (but should have been recycled before now, I admit).

Not that any of this matters today except for the part where we aren't interested in Apple any longer no matter what they might have.

Stan