RF 800mm f11 sharpest against RF 200-800 & 100-500 w/TC ?

Kumsa · Mar 17, 2024

Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

Thanks !

Kumsa · Mar 17, 2024

So, my prior question might suggest that I don't have first hand knowledge of the 800mm f11. I actually own one, and am quite happy with it. Just was curious of the experience of others that own the f11 and perhaps one of the zooms, as well.

Thanks !

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PicPocket · Mar 17, 2024

Kumsa said:
Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

No personal experience, as I opted to add 1.4x to my 100-500 rather than add the 800 f11 to my kit, so I only know half the story

But this comparison did help me to make my choice: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ensComp=1513&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

From what it looks to me, the zoom combo is sharper. It also has more CA, but that's easily corrected

Having said that, these lenses are so good, I would choose based on usability. Afterall, it doesn't matter how sharp if you leave it at home

--
PicPocket

Loren Charif · Mar 17, 2024

Kumsa said:
So, my prior question might suggest that I don't have first hand knowledge of the 800mm f11. I actually own one, and am quite happy with it. Just was curious of the experience of others that own the f11 and perhaps one of the zooms, as well.

Thanks !

I just received my RF 800 f11 a couple of days ago, and have only been out with it once so far, so the jury's still out. I also own the 100-500 but not the TC yet, so an exact comparison isn't going to happen soon, but I'll be interested in any other responses. I'll post my results when I have more experience with the 800 and/or the TC.

Loren

--

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TeeJay626 · Mar 17, 2024

I have both the RF 800 f11 and the RF 100-500L, along with the 1.4x Extender. Also of note, I have the R6 Mark II and the R7. Here's my experiences:

On the R6 Mark II, the RF 100-500L with the 1.4x is excellent, maybe just a tad sharper at 700mm than the RF 800 f11. That being said, the RF 800 f11 is surprisingly sharp and honestly, quite excellent! I was surprised as I owned this lens before when I had the original R6 and was never truly happy with it. Also, on the R6 Mark II, you almost get full autofocus, meaning the entire frame, whereas on older RF bodies, the focus area was much smaller. So I'm happy using either combo. Also, the 1.4x on the 800 works like a charm on the R6 Mark II.

The R7 is another story. The 100-500 is excellent on the R7, with a very slight falloff in quality with the 1.4x. More than is noticeable on the R6. The 800 f11 is a disaster on the R7. My keeper rate is about 25%, where on the R6 it's 80% or better. Not sure why, but it performs poorly on the R7, at least for me.

I do not own the 200-800 as they are very scarce. But I'm very happy with what I'm getting on my R6 Mark II with both of these lenses. I'm seriously considering trading in my R7.

beagle1 · Mar 18, 2024

PicPocket said:
Kumsa said:

Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

Click to expand...

No personal experience, as I opted to add 1.4x to my 100-500 rather than add the 800 f11 to my kit, so I only know half the story

But this comparison did help me to make my choice: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ensComp=1513&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

From what it looks to me, the zoom combo is sharper. It also has more CA, but that's easily corrected

Having said that, these lenses are so good, I would choose based on usability. Afterall, it doesn't matter how sharp if you leave it at home

but that's comparing the lens at different apertures and different focal lengths

GEwart · Mar 18, 2024

TeeJay626 said:
I have both the RF 800 f11 and the RF 100-500L, along with the 1.4x Extender. Also of note, I have the R6 Mark II and the R7. Here's my experiences:

On the R6 Mark II, the RF 100-500L with the 1.4x is excellent, maybe just a tad sharper at 700mm than the RF 800 f11. That being said, the RF 800 f11 is surprisingly sharp and honestly, quite excellent! I was surprised as I owned this lens before when I had the original R6 and was never truly happy with it. Also, on the R6 Mark II, you almost get full autofocus, meaning the entire frame, whereas on older RF bodies, the focus area was much smaller. So I'm happy using either combo. Also, the 1.4x on the 800 works like a charm on the R6 Mark II.

The R7 is another story. The 100-500 is excellent on the R7, with a very slight falloff in quality with the 1.4x. More than is noticeable on the R6. The 800 f11 is a disaster on the R7. My keeper rate is about 25%, where on the R6 it's 80% or better. Not sure why, but it performs poorly on the R7, at least for me.

I do not own the 200-800 as they are very scarce. But I'm very happy with what I'm getting on my R6 Mark II with both of these lenses. I'm seriously considering trading in my R7.

I use the 800f11 with the R5 and R7. The 800f11 works better with the R5 but I get good results with the R7 too. With 1280mm reach it's better to use a tripod and then the R7/ 800f11 combo is pretty damn sharp. Handheld I'm always prepared for a lot of blurry images. Sometimes I think a picture is soft because of a failing with the lens when probably in reality it's camera shake. Using a tripod makes all the difference. For handheld BIF's I use 1/3200 sec shutter speed to stand any chance of freezing medium sized flying birds. More distant flyers 1/2500 sec usually gives a fair keeper rate.

PicPocket · Mar 18, 2024

beagle1 said:
PicPocket said:

Kumsa said:

Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

Click to expand...

No personal experience, as I opted to add 1.4x to my 100-500 rather than add the 800 f11 to my kit, so I only know half the story

But this comparison did help me to make my choice: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ensComp=1513&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

From what it looks to me, the zoom combo is sharper. It also has more CA, but that's easily corrected

Having said that, these lenses are so good, I would choose based on usability. Afterall, it doesn't matter how sharp if you leave it at home

Click to expand...

but that's comparing the lens at different apertures and different focal lengths

That's also what you get in real world when using them. We already know going into this discussion that the focal lengths will not match. In such cases, I often look at what IQ I can get wide open and then take it from there. You can always match the aperture in the tool, stopping down only improves the 100-500 marginally

--
PicPocket

beagle1 · Mar 18, 2024

PicPocket said:
beagle1 said:

PicPocket said:

Kumsa said:

Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

Click to expand...

No personal experience, as I opted to add 1.4x to my 100-500 rather than add the 800 f11 to my kit, so I only know half the story

But this comparison did help me to make my choice: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ensComp=1513&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

From what it looks to me, the zoom combo is sharper. It also has more CA, but that's easily corrected

Having said that, these lenses are so good, I would choose based on usability. Afterall, it doesn't matter how sharp if you leave it at home

Click to expand...

but that's comparing the lens at different apertures and different focal lengths

Click to expand...

That's also what you get in real world when using them. We already know going into this discussion that the focal lengths will not match. In such cases, I often look at what IQ I can get wide open and then take it from there. You can always match the aperture in the tool, stopping down only improves the 100-500 marginally

but someone with both lens could compare the lens at the same aperture, same focal length and same camera (with extender on 100-500)

PicPocket · Mar 18, 2024

beagle1 said:
PicPocket said:

beagle1 said:

PicPocket said:

Kumsa said:

Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

Click to expand...

No personal experience, as I opted to add 1.4x to my 100-500 rather than add the 800 f11 to my kit, so I only know half the story

But this comparison did help me to make my choice: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ensComp=1513&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

From what it looks to me, the zoom combo is sharper. It also has more CA, but that's easily corrected

Having said that, these lenses are so good, I would choose based on usability. Afterall, it doesn't matter how sharp if you leave it at home

Click to expand...

but that's comparing the lens at different apertures and different focal lengths

Click to expand...

That's also what you get in real world when using them. We already know going into this discussion that the focal lengths will not match. In such cases, I often look at what IQ I can get wide open and then take it from there. You can always match the aperture in the tool, stopping down only improves the 100-500 marginally

Click to expand...

but someone with both lens could compare the lens at the same aperture, same focal length and same camera (with extender on 100-500)

Well, with 1.4x, you can only get to 700mm. The 800 prime cannot zoom out to 700mm. Granted you can compare at 800mm using 2x extender, but people who use 2x usually want to shoot at 1000mm which the prime again cannot do

You can already compare at same aperture in the tool as I mentioned before

For me, it was simple. I was considering 1.4x, so the linked tool had all I needed to see.

--
PicPocket

BirdShooter7 · Mar 18, 2024

I performed this test not too long after I got the 200-800 but must have deleted the files afterwards as I can’t locate them. For that reason I decided to do the test again and thankfully the results are consistent with my first run-through. These were performed on my R8 at a distance of about 30m. They are jpegs right out of the camera with no post processing other than cropping. They are actual pixels crops. Each crop is the best of 20 shots, lens mounted on a solid tripod from the same distance.

--
Some of my bird photos can be viewed here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gregsbirds/

GEwart · Mar 18, 2024

To my eyes the 800f11 seems to lack overall sharpness and outline definition compared to the 200-800 by some margin in this test.

Stig Nygaard · Mar 18, 2024

So not really in line with video refered to by OP (I haven't watched it) or digitalpicture comparison posted by PicPocket. But there's many factors. Including "good and bad copies" (not sure how big a factor that usually is?).

But what about distance? Not sure what distances the other results mentioned in thread are shot at. But have you (or anyone here) tried at shorter distances? For example at around 6-8m?

I remember studying Canon's MTF charts. And there 200-800 @800 looked similar or a bit better than the 800/11. But not sure what distance those charts are based on.

Anyway, I've seen impressive sharp shots with all the lenses

--
/Stig (Copenhagen, Denmark)
https://www.rockland.dk/
https://flickr.com/photos/stignygaard/
Flickr Fixr: https://www.flickr.com/groups/flickrhacks/discuss/72157655601688753/
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BirdShooter7 · Mar 18, 2024

GEwart said:
To my eyes the 800f11 seems to lack overall sharpness and outline definition compared to the 200-800 by some margin in this test.

That’s how it looks to me too. Now if you run the images through DXO or similar the difference pretty much vanishes.

BirdShooter7 · Mar 18, 2024

Stig Nygaard said:
So not really in line with video refered to by OP (I haven't watched it) or digitalpicture comparison posted by PicPocket. But there's many factors. Including "good and bad copies" (not sure how big a factor that usually is?).

But what about distance? Not sure what distances the other results mentioned in thread are shot at. But have you (or anyone here) tried at shorter distances? For example at around 6-8m?

I remember studying Canon's MTF charts. And there 200-800 @800 looked similar or a bit better than the 800/11. But not sure what distance those charts are based on.

robgendreau · Mar 18, 2024

BirdShooter7 said:
GEwart said:

To my eyes the 800f11 seems to lack overall sharpness and outline definition compared to the 200-800 by some margin in this test.

Click to expand...

That’s how it looks to me too. Now if you run the images through DXO or similar the difference pretty much vanishes.

I think there's more contrast in the 200-800, which of course contributes to the perceived sharpness. Resolving BW lines would be better, but at the end of the day both are impressive. In the real world other issues would separate them more, of course.

beagle1 · Mar 19, 2024

PicPocket said:
beagle1 said:

PicPocket said:

beagle1 said:

PicPocket said:

Kumsa said:

Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

Click to expand...

No personal experience, as I opted to add 1.4x to my 100-500 rather than add the 800 f11 to my kit, so I only know half the story

But this comparison did help me to make my choice: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ensComp=1513&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

From what it looks to me, the zoom combo is sharper. It also has more CA, but that's easily corrected

Having said that, these lenses are so good, I would choose based on usability. Afterall, it doesn't matter how sharp if you leave it at home

Click to expand...

but that's comparing the lens at different apertures and different focal lengths

Click to expand...

That's also what you get in real world when using them. We already know going into this discussion that the focal lengths will not match. In such cases, I often look at what IQ I can get wide open and then take it from there. You can always match the aperture in the tool, stopping down only improves the 100-500 marginally

Click to expand...

but someone with both lens could compare the lens at the same aperture, same focal length and same camera (with extender on 100-500)

Click to expand...

Well, with 1.4x, you can only get to 700mm. The 800 prime cannot zoom out to 700mm. Granted you can compare at 800mm using 2x extender, but people who use 2x usually want to shoot at 1000mm which the prime again cannot do

You can already compare at same aperture in the tool as I mentioned before

For me, it was simple. I was considering 1.4x, so the linked tool had all I needed to see.

For me it's also simple - if you need or want 800mm then 200-800 is good

PicPocket · Mar 19, 2024

beagle1 said:
PicPocket said:

beagle1 said:

PicPocket said:

beagle1 said:

PicPocket said:

Kumsa said:

Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

Click to expand...

No personal experience, as I opted to add 1.4x to my 100-500 rather than add the 800 f11 to my kit, so I only know half the story

But this comparison did help me to make my choice: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ensComp=1513&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

From what it looks to me, the zoom combo is sharper. It also has more CA, but that's easily corrected

Having said that, these lenses are so good, I would choose based on usability. Afterall, it doesn't matter how sharp if you leave it at home

Click to expand...

but that's comparing the lens at different apertures and different focal lengths

Click to expand...

That's also what you get in real world when using them. We already know going into this discussion that the focal lengths will not match. In such cases, I often look at what IQ I can get wide open and then take it from there. You can always match the aperture in the tool, stopping down only improves the 100-500 marginally

Click to expand...

but someone with both lens could compare the lens at the same aperture, same focal length and same camera (with extender on 100-500)

Click to expand...

Well, with 1.4x, you can only get to 700mm. The 800 prime cannot zoom out to 700mm. Granted you can compare at 800mm using 2x extender, but people who use 2x usually want to shoot at 1000mm which the prime again cannot do

You can already compare at same aperture in the tool as I mentioned before

For me, it was simple. I was considering 1.4x, so the linked tool had all I needed to see.

Click to expand...

For me it's also simple - if you need or want 800mm then 200-800 is good

For that you don't need the comparison OP is looking for

BirdShooter7 · Mar 19, 2024

robgendreau said:
BirdShooter7 said:

GEwart said:

To my eyes the 800f11 seems to lack overall sharpness and outline definition compared to the 200-800 by some margin in this test.

Click to expand...

That’s how it looks to me too. Now if you run the images through DXO or similar the difference pretty much vanishes.

Click to expand...

I think there's more contrast in the 200-800, which of course contributes to the perceived sharpness. Resolving BW lines would be better, but at the end of the day both are impressive. In the real world other issues would separate them more, of course.

Yes the extra contrast does help. The two lenses do seem very close and like I said, if you make just a little effort doing your PP the differences pretty much disappear. Sharpness isn’t an area I would consider when deciding between these two lenses as I don’t think it matters in real world images between these two but there are plenty of other obvious differences between these lenses that probably do matter quite a bit.

John Sheehy · Mar 19, 2024

beagle1 said:
PicPocket said:

Kumsa said:

Phil Katch has performed a comparison of these three lenses (

). His finding is that the RF 800mm f11 is the sharpest of the group.

Granted, the zooms are much, much, more flexible in real world use.

My question is not whether one or the other is the most useful, but at the same reach, is the RF 800mm f11 really as sharp or sharper ? If so, then it's an amazing value.

Any personal experience to share regarding sharpness ?

Click to expand...

No personal experience, as I opted to add 1.4x to my 100-500 rather than add the 800 f11 to my kit, so I only know half the story

But this comparison did help me to make my choice: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ensComp=1513&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

From what it looks to me, the zoom combo is sharper. It also has more CA, but that's easily corrected

Having said that, these lenses are so good, I would choose based on usability. Afterall, it doesn't matter how sharp if you leave it at home

Click to expand...

but that's comparing the lens at different apertures and different focal lengths

Also, all of these comparison sites assume the model of framing compositions the same way at all angles of view and focal lengths, which has decreasing relevance as photography becomes more focal-length-limited. If they were testing for focal-length-limited situations, they would shoot a target at the same distance for every sensor/lens combo. This comparison actually placed the lens too far from the target for the 800mm, compared to the 700mm, as everything is smaller at 800mm, when they should be the same.

So, there are two negative biases, in the same direction, if one wants to use that comparison for focal-length-limited concerns.

Unfortunately, one can take any two gear combos and compare them for focal-length-limited concerns shooting from the same distance, but none of the large repositories of comparison images have done so across most of the existing gear with the same target and distance.

RF 800mm f11 sharpest against RF 200-800 & 100-500 w/TC ?

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