X100VI: Lens cant keep up with AF improvements?

Fritzo · Feb 22, 2024

I dont really care about the 40mpx. Or the IBIS. The one thing Im missing in my current X100V is good tracking AF for when the kids are running around. I have too many missed shots with the X100V, and I feel its totally unpredictable.

The new X100VI has the updated AF algorithm. All good so far. But I fear the lens mechanism is too slow to keep up and that this is really where the limitation lies. Guess we will have to wait for user reviews to really see (I dont trust the early «camera influencer» reviews), but what is your guess on this subject, from a tech perspective?

dwalme · Feb 22, 2024

It'll have the same challenges.

The lens motors are the same so if that was the reason you had missed focused shots it'll be the same on the VI.

DirkPeh · Feb 22, 2024

When I get blurry shots with the X100V using AF, I get them despite the software claims it has reached focus (green confirmation). My conclusion: it’s not the software, it’s the motor that can’t hold up. The lens and motor in the X100VI is identical with the one in the V.

The software seems to be improved in recognising objects, but the problems related to the lens motor will stay the same. So I come to the same conclusion as @dwalme.

Bartolomeos · Feb 22, 2024

DirkPeh said:
My conclusion: it’s not the software, it’s the motor that can’t hold up.

Hm, but if the motor can't hold up, then how the sensor/processor arrived at conclusion that focus has been acquired?

José B · Feb 22, 2024

Fritzo said:
I dont really care about the 40mpx. Or the IBIS. The one thing Im missing in my current X100V is good tracking AF for when the kids are running around. I have too many missed shots with the X100V, and I feel its totally unpredictable.

The new X100VI has the updated AF algorithm. All good so far. But I fear the lens mechanism is too slow to keep up and that this is really where the limitation lies. Guess we will have to wait for user reviews to really see (I dont trust the early «camera influencer» reviews), but what is your guess on this subject, from a tech perspective?

I shoot with the R6MKII and A6700 both with superb eye-AF systems. Pre-ordered the X100VI the other day but just watched Lee Zavitz's video showing the capabilities of the AF system. His shooting style is similar to mine. I intend to use the Fuji for posed street photography and etc. Check out his initial impressions which included some clips (3:45) of eye-AF on a cat.

Can't wait to get mine, hopefully next week.

Cheers,

José

Fritzo · Feb 22, 2024

José B said:
Fritzo said:

I dont really care about the 40mpx. Or the IBIS. The one thing Im missing in my current X100V is good tracking AF for when the kids are running around. I have too many missed shots with the X100V, and I feel its totally unpredictable.

The new X100VI has the updated AF algorithm. All good so far. But I fear the lens mechanism is too slow to keep up and that this is really where the limitation lies. Guess we will have to wait for user reviews to really see (I dont trust the early «camera influencer» reviews), but what is your guess on this subject, from a tech perspective?

Click to expand...

I shoot with the R6MKII and A6700 both with superb eye-AF systems. Pre-ordered the X100VI the other day but just watched Lee Zavitz's video showing the capabilities of the AF system. His shooting style is similar to mine. I intend to use the Fuji for posed street photography and etc. Check out his initial impressions which included some clips (3:45) of eye-AF on a cat.

Can't wait to get mine, hopefully next week.

Cheers,

José

Thanks for the video, José, I will check it out.
I came from Sony myself, with both A6***-series and A7iii and A7c, and unfortunately Fuji is not close to the Eye AF experience with Sony. Getting closer with the X-T5, but with the X100V is like going ten years back.

I managed to find a few workarounds and overall the user experience and colors makes the X100V a blast to use, by far my most used and favourite camera of all of them. Hopefully you will love it as much as I have, despite a few quirks.

MJ_Photo38 · Feb 22, 2024

That's also my sentiment.

I don't know how much faster is the version II of that lens on the X100V compared to the original

But the X100 cameras were already limited by the speed of the lens starting with the X100S.

The X100F had a pretty good AF system (same as X-T2), but couldn't fully utilize it because of the slow moving lens

José B · Feb 22, 2024

Fritzo said:
José B said:

Fritzo said:

I dont really care about the 40mpx. Or the IBIS. The one thing Im missing in my current X100V is good tracking AF for when the kids are running around. I have too many missed shots with the X100V, and I feel its totally unpredictable.

The new X100VI has the updated AF algorithm. All good so far. But I fear the lens mechanism is too slow to keep up and that this is really where the limitation lies. Guess we will have to wait for user reviews to really see (I dont trust the early «camera influencer» reviews), but what is your guess on this subject, from a tech perspective?

Click to expand...

I shoot with the R6MKII and A6700 both with superb eye-AF systems. Pre-ordered the X100VI the other day but just watched Lee Zavitz's video showing the capabilities of the AF system. His shooting style is similar to mine. I intend to use the Fuji for posed street photography and etc. Check out his initial impressions which included some clips (3:45) of eye-AF on a cat.

Can't wait to get mine, hopefully next week.

Cheers,

José

Click to expand...

Thanks for the video, José, I will check it out.
I came from Sony myself, with both A6***-series and A7iii and A7c, and unfortunately Fuji is not close to the Eye AF experience with Sony. Getting closer with the X-T5, but with the X100V is like going ten years back.

I managed to find a few workarounds and overall the user experience and colors makes the X100V a blast to use, by far my most used and favourite camera of all of them. Hopefully you will love it as much as I have, despite a few quirks.

Thanks Fritzo.

I'll be happy if my camera focuses as fast like what Lee showed in the video. I normally ask my model to do some movement i.e. spinning/twirling and walk towards me (and I shoot in bursts for these) so I'm looking forward what the little camera can do.

Deep1981 · Feb 22, 2024

Am about to join the x100 club so don’t have any experience

Having said that, for kids running, what if zone focussing is used? Low tech but part of the fun?

ISO 1 Million · Feb 22, 2024

Thanks for starting this thread. It's the same question/concern I've had since all the reviews dropped for the VI with people saying it has AF improvements but absolutely nobody demonstrating it on video for evidence. I also made an educated guess that the VI won't show any real improvement over the V because the motor is the real issue. If this turns out to be true, I definitely will not be upgrading my V.

I wanted IBIS, a beefier less fragile AF stick, better AF tracking to include upgrading the motor, improved weather sealing especially around the battery door which has absolutely no seals, additional custom profiles, and the ability to choose different colors for the AF box other than white. The VI only included IBIS and while 40 mp is nice, it's just not enough of a difference from the V for me to upgrade.

msadat · Feb 22, 2024

for sure you should not buy this camera, may be look at the x-h2s or the canon r6ii, much better choices for lenses

José B · Feb 22, 2024

Deep1981 said:
Am about to join the x100 club so don’t have any experience

Having said that, for kids running, what if zone focussing is used? Low tech but part of the fun?

I'm new to the X100 club or Fuji myself.

Tough to answer that question as I haven't seen any of the reviewers photograph their kids running. Maybe once people here would get their hands on their new X100Vi they can chime in.

DirkPeh · Feb 22, 2024

Bartolomeos said:
DirkPeh said:

My conclusion: it’s not the software, it’s the motor that can’t hold up.

Click to expand...

Hm, but if the motor can't hold up, then how the sensor/processor arrived at conclusion that focus has been acquired?

I don’t know, I just experience it. I read that the camera opens the aperture for gaining light to focus and then goes back to the set aperture. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge of how it works can enlighten us. Seems that the motore has to move 9 glass elements to focus and a solution would be complex maintaining the size of the camera and lens.

DirkPeh · Feb 22, 2024

MJ_Photo38 said:
That's also my sentiment.

I don't know how much faster is the version II of that lens on the X100V compared to the original

But the X100 cameras were already limited by the speed of the lens starting with the X100S.

The X100F had a pretty good AF system (same as X-T2), but couldn't fully utilize it because of the slow moving lens

I only know the X100V, it might be faster, but it definitely isn’t fast

RobRoy22 · Feb 22, 2024

It’s not a camera for those kind of action shots.

ARB1 · Feb 22, 2024

Fritzo said:
José B said:

Fritzo said:

I dont really care about the 40mpx. Or the IBIS. The one thing Im missing in my current X100V is good tracking AF for when the kids are running around. I have too many missed shots with the X100V, and I feel its totally unpredictable.

The new X100VI has the updated AF algorithm. All good so far. But I fear the lens mechanism is too slow to keep up and that this is really where the limitation lies. Guess we will have to wait for user reviews to really see (I dont trust the early «camera influencer» reviews), but what is your guess on this subject, from a tech perspective?

Click to expand...

I shoot with the R6MKII and A6700 both with superb eye-AF systems. Pre-ordered the X100VI the other day but just watched Lee Zavitz's video showing the capabilities of the AF system. His shooting style is similar to mine. I intend to use the Fuji for posed street photography and etc. Check out his initial impressions which included some clips (3:45) of eye-AF on a cat.

Can't wait to get mine, hopefully next week.

Cheers,

José

Click to expand...

Thanks for the video, José, I will check it out.
I came from Sony myself, with both A6***-series and A7iii and A7c, and unfortunately Fuji is not close to the Eye AF experience with Sony. Getting closer with the X-T5, but with the X100V is like going ten years back.

I managed to find a few workarounds and overall the user experience and colors makes the X100V a blast to use, by far my most used and favourite camera of all of them. Hopefully you will love it as much as I have, despite a few quirks.

Yeah, I’m still a Sony shooter and always remind myself not to compare the X100? to my a7rv, it’s just a different beast. I had the x100v and enjoyed it but sold it at the height of the frenzy since Covid put a halt to my traveling, but I pre-ordered the VI and I’m excited to join the x100? family again.

It’s really a fun camera to use as long as you don’t get too hung up on trying to compare it to other more full featured cameras.

biza43 · Feb 22, 2024

Fritzo said:
I dont really care about the 40mpx. Or the IBIS. The one thing Im missing in my current X100V is good tracking AF for when the kids are running around. I have too many missed shots with the X100V, and I feel its totally unpredictable.

The X100 cameras were never about "action".

Fritzo said:
The new X100VI has the updated AF algorithm. All good so far. But I fear the lens mechanism is too slow to keep up and that this is really where the limitation lies. Guess we will have to wait for user reviews to really see (I dont trust the early «camera influencer» reviews), but what is your guess on this subject, from a tech perspective?

Same lens, new processor. Could be a little better?

DirkPeh · Feb 22, 2024

RobRoy22 said:
It’s not a camera for those kind of action shots.

True, but nobody would complain if Fuji could compete with the cheaper Sony‘s. Doesn’t have to be an A9.

The only reason I don’t switch completely to Fuji, while keeping the small Ricoh, is the AF. As much as I love the X100V, it is just too tempting to combine the advantages of FF with Sony AF. Fuji might loose a lot of sales due to this issue as much love and admiration their wonderful cameras get. Not sales of the X100‘s, but people who would buy their XT-5 or H2 cameras stay with Canon or Sony after experiencing the lacking AF capabilities of Fuji.

dwalme · Feb 22, 2024

DirkPeh said:
sales of the X100‘s, but people who would buy their XT-5 or H2 cameras stay with Canon or Sony after experiencing the lacking AF capabilities of Fuji.

I really wonder what the true cost is to get auto focus performance parity with Canon and Sony.

Nikon is coming from dead last in mirrorless to near matching them with the Z8, Z9. Yes they need to refresh all the older cameras but at least they've shown they can get close enough.

It's been years now for Fuji. They are slowly getting better but still pretty far behind.

What is Fuji's excuse? Hardware should already be there. Licensing issues? Blocked by patents? Inability to write efficient and effective software?

Fritzo · Feb 22, 2024

biza43 said:
Fritzo said:

I dont really care about the 40mpx. Or the IBIS. The one thing Im missing in my current X100V is good tracking AF for when the kids are running around. I have too many missed shots with the X100V, and I feel its totally unpredictable.

Click to expand...

The X100 cameras were never about "action".

I dont necessarily agree with this. Sure, if youre into sports or wildlife, I agree other cameras are (much) better suited. But for typical family shots of kids and daily life (which this camera is ideal for), the AF should be able to keep up. Fujis AF algortithm seems to be massively improved in the last iterations, but the lens in the X100V and X100VI seems to be too slow/oldfashioned to keep up. Guess that will be on top of the wish list for X100VII; an updated and faster AF motor in the lens… always wanting more right

X100VI: Lens cant keep up with AF improvements?

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