dmanthree
Forum Pro
that's long way off for anything "RF."
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Canon will open RF mount by end of 2023?
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chipman02
Forum Enthusiast
There is this lens already -
and Meike announced a RF lens with AF at a recent trade show.
If true, that's two companies Canon is working with already. How many more do they need?
As far as Canon opening up the piggy bank for Sigma and Tamron? I just don't see it happening.
and Meike announced a RF lens with AF at a recent trade show.
If true, that's two companies Canon is working with already. How many more do they need?
As far as Canon opening up the piggy bank for Sigma and Tamron? I just don't see it happening.
BirdShooter7
Forum Pro
Interpol
Leading Member
What a bunch of clickbait nonsense.
If you actually follow the link to the source of this rumor at https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/br...r-rf-mount-to-third-party-lens-manufacturers/ it just points to a YouTube video that doesn't say anything new. Canon is not going to "open the RF mount to third party manufacturers", they are simply doing what they're already doing - which is licensing RF technology to SELECTED partners. Canon never opened up EF to third parties either - at least, not "opened up" in the true sense of the word. Third parties basically reverse engineered the EF mount and electronic communication protocols, which were much easier to do 20+ years ago.
So don't hold your breath. Despite Mikej's constant spewing of revisionist speculation without any basis in reality, Canon is doing just fine financially and there's no reason why they would suddenly relent to "open up" RF any more than they did with EF. And no sane third party is going to waste their time developing and marketing lenses that may or may not compete with Canon's current or future products when Canon can decide to deny them that ability at their discretion.
LOL at the people who think this so-called news means that RF will suddenly become an open source technology by the end of this year. Prepare to be sorely disappointed - it's not going to happen. Guaranteed.
If you actually follow the link to the source of this rumor at https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/br...r-rf-mount-to-third-party-lens-manufacturers/ it just points to a YouTube video that doesn't say anything new. Canon is not going to "open the RF mount to third party manufacturers", they are simply doing what they're already doing - which is licensing RF technology to SELECTED partners. Canon never opened up EF to third parties either - at least, not "opened up" in the true sense of the word. Third parties basically reverse engineered the EF mount and electronic communication protocols, which were much easier to do 20+ years ago.
So don't hold your breath. Despite Mikej's constant spewing of revisionist speculation without any basis in reality, Canon is doing just fine financially and there's no reason why they would suddenly relent to "open up" RF any more than they did with EF. And no sane third party is going to waste their time developing and marketing lenses that may or may not compete with Canon's current or future products when Canon can decide to deny them that ability at their discretion.
LOL at the people who think this so-called news means that RF will suddenly become an open source technology by the end of this year. Prepare to be sorely disappointed - it's not going to happen. Guaranteed.
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BackToNature1
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Reviewers get a cheap thrill, at least most of them, by mentioning this. Whether or not any of them believe most of the stuff they state about anything, that is debatable.
What if Canon was already negotiating in good faith with Third Parties, long before the talking Heads on Ytube stated anything. What if they(yTubers) were wrong all this time. The only thing taking a toll on Canon is the same thing taking a toll on every other Camera Brand, continually yearly drop in sales.
So called Smart Phones continual erosion of Camera Gear sales has been the real issue, not third party lens. That and Canon and Nikon's late move to mirrorless.
Interpol
Leading Member
Exactly. The "constant negative press" comes from a small minority of Canon's customer base which consists of millions of people, but it is that small minority that has the loudest voice and an established platform (YouTube, forums, etc.) from which they can vocalize their complaints. They are in no way representative of the sentiment of the average Canon consumer. As has been mentioned before, Canon's sales numbers, financials, and the fact that the R system is rapidly gaining market share in the MILC market compared to Sony (who had several years head start) completely bears this out. In fact, in the general mirrorless market, Canon already took the top spot in January of this year with a 31.7% share (up from 28.2%), while Sony had 29.4%.
The inconvenient truth is, most people don't care about third party offerings, and Canon understands that. This issue is a drop in the bucket of their overall market strategy. What is said and discussed here on a forum such as this one is irrelevant from a business economic point of view.
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Myles Baker
Forum Enthusiast
Its inevitable that 3rd party AF lenses will become available for the R mount, whether licesened by Canon or through some way of circumventing the patents. Its a matter of when, not if.
I don't think Canon wants a free for all situation regarding 3rd party lenses & would much prefer licensing deals and to that end I think they will license some lenses sooner rather than later, so that they maintain a semblance of control over what is released & when, similar to what Nikon is doing with Tamron, but I don't expect that they will willingly open up to all comers, short of their patents failing.
I don't think Canon wants a free for all situation regarding 3rd party lenses & would much prefer licensing deals and to that end I think they will license some lenses sooner rather than later, so that they maintain a semblance of control over what is released & when, similar to what Nikon is doing with Tamron, but I don't expect that they will willingly open up to all comers, short of their patents failing.
Interpol
Leading Member
Agreed. Canon wants to be able to tell third parties what they can and cannot manufacture in order to limit competition. Licensing is NOT open-sourcing. Example: they are not going to let Sigma or Tamron develop an autofocusing RF mount 50mm f/1.2 lens that sells for $500 or even $1000. Such a move would undercut sales of their own 50mm f/1.2L lens. What company would allow that?
Back in the late 90's Apple allowed third parties to produce machines that could run MacOS. See how well that worked out for them. It wasn't until Steve Jobs returned to the company and closed the Mac hardware ecosystem to all third parties that Apple became wildly profitable.
Canon is going to continue to make decisions based on what makes the most financial sense, not based on the demands of a small number of people who have no understanding of how to run a successful business and only care about what they want. People like that are write-offs for any company because you can never completely satisfy them.
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gipper51
Veteran Member
To be fair, Nikon / Sony / Panasonic / Olympus, etc. WANT to do the same thing. All of the major camera company wish all of its customers would buy just their product and they could tell third party manufacturer's where to shove it. You don't want to concede a product you're selling to a competitor, even if they are licensing it. Pretty basic business practice here. But most of the companies aren't in a position to do so.
The reality is that companies like Sony would have never gotten their FF mirrorless platform off the ground without the third party lens support. It was a necessary strategy for the fledgling system, and it worked out well. Now it's become a hallmark of the ecosystem. But believe me, Sony would prefer you buy the Sony version of "fill in the blank".
If Canon can make the profit they want keeping RF closed, they will continue to do so. It's only if the numbers indicate that keeping it closed is doing more harm than good that they will open it.
I fall into the "hope they open it" camp. Lots of recent Sigma/Tamron glass I'd love to put on the front of a Canon mirrorless body.
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tkbslc
Forum Pro
I'll believe it when I see a Sigma or Tamron lens announced for the mount.
dmanthree
Forum Pro
Sounds about right. 17 years for patent protection.
thunder storm
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The best list of wishes is the list of fulfilled wishes. The Sigma EF 135mm f/1.8 Art is out of service?
YMMV of course though!
R2
dmanthree
Forum Pro
Agreed. News stories don't put glass on the shelves.
thunder storm
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My EF glass might survive the coming 13 years.
There are 3 reasons for the R5: 24-70mm f/2.8 mkII, 40mm Art, 105mm Art. The day the 24-70mm dies the Tamron FE 35-150mm will likely replace it. That day I will have to think hard about justifications to keep the R5.
robgendreau
Forum Pro
Yeah, me too. And when it's tested. And when there's proof that a third party lens firmware can remain useful and current with Canon AF firmware updates, etc. And if Canon lets them produce lenses for anything but niche uses, vs competing with their current lineup.
CamerEyes
Senior Member
Months ago, I started using Sony's most basic full frame camera - the A7C. It opened for me access to a huge array of third party lenses, such that to this day, I only have one Sony lens and the rest are from Sigma and Tamron.
Today I am actually in the process of deciding to fully transition to Sony or remain in a dual system setup. I have tested the A7RV immensely. If it were not 61mp, I would have grabbed it readily (I don't need 61mp). I have tried the A7IV as well.
What makes the R6Mii difficult to give up is its robust video capabilities and ergonomics. However, I'm a 80/20 photo-video shooter. With the new A7Cii and the A7CR, the choices are making it harder to ignore Sony as a serious path forward.
I have spent more than almost two thousand dollars on Sony lenses over the past six months, and almost zero on Canon lens except for the pancake RF28mm. I continue to adapt EF lenses to my R6Mii and R7, and have only purchased two RF lenses over the past four years.
Regardless of how much we try to justify why Canon continues to keep the RF mount lenses closed to third parties, and how despite that they're a "market leader" - that you had to justify such decision is the ironic part. If it were a significantly advantageous move for the customers, no one would ever have to justify it. Such is the nature of being loyal fans I guess, just like in football, baseball or basketball. We root for our teams nonetheless, sometimes despite themselves. I too defended Canon vigorously in the past, and not always rationally.
I hope too that Nikon gets back on its feet, with the success of the Z8. Having two strong players vs Canon ultimately benefits consumers.
My view is Canon will continue to push away the Sigmas and Tamrons of the world - for as long as possible, until it starts to financially hurt. That's the nature of running a business - especially with publicly listed companies. They are in no hurry. Rumors will be floated to discourage a shift to competitors. Just like when they released the R and RP - they were transition products from the 5DMIV and 6DMii. It was to signal they're now taking the mirrorless FF market seriously, so hey, hold on, don't make a switch yet, we're here now kind of thing. They are doing it again with this rumor. In a world where powerful brands have a solid history of taking people for a ride, my money is on Canon not allowing third party RF lenses until 2025, if at all. Rumors however will continue to float, to stir some hope.
R2D2
Forum Pro
I let a friend borrow it this past weekend for a nighttime football game, and a wedding the next day. This lens still kicks butt (thanks for your recommendation BTW).
At some point however I might swap it for the new RF version, but that's pretty low priority. My dream would be to see a new (lighter and more compact) RF 200mm f/2L IS. Best portrait lens ever!!! :-D
I have about everything I need for both work and play right now, but requirements may change at some point. I think my next purchase will likely be a pair of R5 Mark II's. Bodies nowadays are just as important as lenses.
I have just one main reason: the RF 100-500 +/- 1.4x (on my R5). Everything else goes on the R6 Mark II (for work), save for the RF 100 Macro which stays on the R7.
Yup, maybe your output requirements will have changed by then and you won't need such serious lenses and/or resolution.
I'm hoping the same goes for me too. Hey, I'm supposed to be RETIRED! Photography is just too fun to give up!
Enjoy!
R2
CamerEyes
Senior Member
Rented the RF135mm for a week. Decided not to let go of my Sigma 135mm. The RF135mm is a superb lens, btw. It's just now worth the money when the Sigma 135mm already rocks.I let a friend borrow it this past weekend for a nighttime football game, and a wedding the next day. This lens still kicks butt (thanks for your recommendation BTW).
At some point however I might swap it for the new RF version, but that's pretty low priority. My dream would be to see a new (lighter and more compact) RF 200mm f/2L IS. Best portrait lens ever!!! :-D
I have about everything I need for both work and play right now, but requirements may change at some point. I think my next purchase will likely be a pair of R5 Mark II's. Bodies nowadays are just as important as lenses.
I have just one main reason: the RF 100-500 +/- 1.4x (on my R5). Everything else goes on the R6 Mark II (for work), save for the RF 100 Macro which stays on the R7.
Yup, maybe your output requirements will have changed by then and you won't need such serious lenses and/or resolution.
I'm hoping the same goes for me too. Hey, I'm supposed to be RETIRED! Photography is just too fun to give up!
Enjoy!
R2
BirdShooter7
Forum Pro
That’s exactly why Canon is motivated to keep those manufacturers out. There are lots of us that are the same way. It’s bad enough that we can still hang onto our old EF glass.
Canon's patents for the RF mount likely go back 1-2 years before 2018. This means they would expire around 2033. I don't think they can sustain the loss of users over that time period going to Sony for better lens options. By then Sony will have a far more dominant position regarding the OEM and third party combined E mount catalog. It will likely be much more dominant than Canon had with the EF catalog. I think this will become a major problem for them well before 2033. They are likely seeing it now to some degree.A
Also, I think Canon has been keeping its MILC market share up due to the exceptional camera bodies they have released since the R5 and R6 arrived. At some point MILC advancement will slow down like it did with DSLRs. Then camera capability between brands will be much tighter. At this point, the size and quality of the E lens catalog compared to the RF lens catalog will be a more compelling reason to go with Sony. What Canon does will come down to profits and market share being negatively affected by a lack of RF lens options.
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