Will Sony produce a sports/wildlife APSc camera?

silentstorm

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Coincidentally, yesterday I was out shooting and wished there's a high performance APSc camera, and today I read the A6700 review.



I shoot with the A7r.3 and usually crop very heavily for wildlife photography. So I was wondering if Sony would make a high perf APSc for wildlife and sports for the extra reach with the megapixel density to boot? I seriously don't see myself or many others buying the A1 just to use crop mode (as a hobby enthusiast). Some heavily cropped samples below.





Swallow
Swallow





Another tiny swallow, could be a male.
Another tiny swallow, could be a male.





Not sure what species this is.  Hahahaha
Not sure what species this is. Hahahaha





The nutty professor!  Hahahaha
The nutty professor! Hahahaha



What I hope to see is boost over the current A6700:

1) 16fps mech / 25fps ES

2) Faster flash sync of 1/250

3) Faster readout speed at 8ms

4) Bigger buffer and faster write times

5) Hybrid Type A and SDXC UHS-ii card slot. Don't mind it being just 1 card slot for APSc

6) A1 class AF tracking and speed

7) More slope-y shutter button for better ergo

8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better

9) EVF 3.6 million dots at 0.78x mag equiv size

10) Max mech shutter speed 1/8000

11) Min shutter speed goes to 2mins

12) Video ability to shoot open gate at 400Mbps on the Type A card all-I frames

13) Micro HDMI output to external recorder for ProRes or BRAW recording

14) GPS sensor with on/off feature

15) Priced at USD$1999 body only



If Sony would produce such a camera, I am most glad to pick one up and the 200-600mm lens combo. Don't mind it being another 100g heavier than the A6700. Can this dream come true?
 
There's been interest in a high performance aps-c for quite a while. A current replacement for the D500 sort of camera. But I'd expect if it's competitive or an alternative to A9s, it's going to push towards them in price, too. It could be in a large A7 body, too. I don't need small if it's going on big lenses. Sony has been silent on the idea all that time, too.
 
I hope a baby A1 gets released. No way it'll be cheaper than an X-H2S though.

$2750 and I'm in. :)
 
The OM1 MFT body has a stacked sensor but not all of those features. It costs $2,000.

OMDS sold a lot more than they expected.

Andrew
 
I shoot with the A7r.3 and usually crop very heavily for wildlife photography.
you also use a 70-300, so maybe start with getting a 200-600?
1) 16fps mech / 25fps ES
mech, no, es yes.
2) Faster flash sync of 1/250
doubt it, but don't know the current max for es
3) Faster readout speed at 8ms
presumably there could be a stacked sensor, but me personally don't think they want to be in that segment.
4) Bigger buffer and faster write times
right...
5) Hybrid Type A and SDXC UHS-ii card slot. Don't mind it being just 1 card slot for APSc
no opinion
6) A1 class AF tracking and speed
I think a1 is dual bionz XR, and not latest gen, so seems unlikely both way.
7) More slope-y shutter button for better ergo
Sony may amend ergo at some point.
8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better
I would look to fuji, 26mp stacked or 42mp non-stacked.
9) EVF 3.6 million dots at 0.78x mag equiv size
no opinion. but seems a stretch
10) Max mech shutter speed 1/8000
don't think so.
11) Min shutter speed goes to 2mins
max? no opinion
12) Video ability to shoot open gate at 400Mbps on the Type A card all-I frames
seems unlikely. given that this would be a non-fx camera
13) Micro HDMI output to external recorder for ProRes or BRAW recording
if so, I would expect full size HDMI, but again sounds like an FX camera. I don't understand why this can't be done over USB-C
14) GPS sensor with on/off feature
I think they are happy with the phone-bluetooth version
15) Priced at USD$1999 body only
why not get a used a9?
If Sony would produce such a camera, I am most glad to pick one up and the 200-600mm lens combo. Don't mind it being another 100g heavier than the A6700. Can this dream come true?
Sony has never replaced the NEX-7. Although, the a6700 gets closer than ever. The features the a6700 is missing, imo, is mainly the enhanced stabilization. Would sony release such a camera? I don't really think so, I think they prefer to let the "pro" aps-c market be captured by fuji etc, and in any case, the only true pro aps-c market is PL-mount cine. I personally don't know any wildlife photographers that use APS-C anymore, but I know a couple that's holding on to their MFT, particularly birders.
 
I shoot with the A7r.3 and usually crop very heavily for wildlife photography.
you also use a 70-300, so maybe start with getting a 200-600?
1) 16fps mech / 25fps ES
mech, no, es yes.
2) Faster flash sync of 1/250
doubt it, but don't know the current max for es
3) Faster readout speed at 8ms
presumably there could be a stacked sensor, but me personally don't think they want to be in that segment.
4) Bigger buffer and faster write times
right...
5) Hybrid Type A and SDXC UHS-ii card slot. Don't mind it being just 1 card slot for APSc
no opinion
6) A1 class AF tracking and speed
I think a1 is dual bionz XR, and not latest gen, so seems unlikely both way.
7) More slope-y shutter button for better ergo
Sony may amend ergo at some point.
8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better
I would look to fuji, 26mp stacked or 42mp non-stacked.
9) EVF 3.6 million dots at 0.78x mag equiv size
no opinion. but seems a stretch
10) Max mech shutter speed 1/8000
don't think so.
11) Min shutter speed goes to 2mins
max? no opinion
12) Video ability to shoot open gate at 400Mbps on the Type A card all-I frames
seems unlikely. given that this would be a non-fx camera
13) Micro HDMI output to external recorder for ProRes or BRAW recording
if so, I would expect full size HDMI, but again sounds like an FX camera. I don't understand why this can't be done over USB-C
HDMI, can, I think, go over Thunderbolt/usb 4 on a C port. A port or two of that could also do files, power, audio and maybe simplify connectivity options. Maybe someday?
14) GPS sensor with on/off feature
I think they are happy with the phone-bluetooth version
15) Priced at USD$1999 body only
why not get a used a9?
If Sony would produce such a camera, I am most glad to pick one up and the 200-600mm lens combo. Don't mind it being another 100g heavier than the A6700. Can this dream come true?
Sony has never replaced the NEX-7. Although, the a6700 gets closer than ever. The features the a6700 is missing, imo, is mainly the enhanced stabilization. Would sony release such a camera? I don't really think so, I think they prefer to let the "pro" aps-c market be captured by fuji etc, and in any case, the only true pro aps-c market is PL-mount cine. I personally don't know any wildlife photographers that use APS-C anymore, but I know a couple that's holding on to their MFT, particularly birders.
 
I shoot with the A7r.3 and usually crop very heavily for wildlife photography.
you also use a 70-300, so maybe start with getting a 200-600?
The shots I heavily cropped, more often than not, has a final size of about 2100 x 1700 pixels (about 3.5MP). I find that very miserable, so would it boost to 10MP by going 600mm?

1) 16fps mech / 25fps ES
mech, no, es yes.
Faster mech shutter has it's advantage too, both with a speed bump is a big welcome.

6) A1 class AF tracking and speed
I think a1 is dual bionz XR, and not latest gen, so seems unlikely both way.
I'm happy even if Sony puts a A9ii Bionz inside just for a high perf APSc. :-D

8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better
I would look to fuji, 26mp stacked or 42mp non-stacked.
The Fuji H2s AF speed and tracking is still a tad behind Sony, if I read correctly. But yea, for APSc now, it's either Fuji or Canon R7.

9) EVF 3.6 million dots at 0.78x mag equiv size
no opinion. but seems a stretch
I think the OM-1 has 5.7 million dots and 0.82x mag equiv EVF. I'm only asking for 3.6, very modest request. Hahaha

10) Max mech shutter speed 1/8000
don't think so.
Why not? It's not like having 1/8000 mech shutter speed is new/high tech, it has been around for decades.

11) Min shutter speed goes to 2mins
max? no opinion
Current Sony cameras only do 30s. Pathetic right? Hahahaha. And increasing it doesn't cost Sony anything, just a software tweak.

13) Micro HDMI output to external recorder for ProRes or BRAW recording
if so, I would expect full size HDMI, but again sounds like an FX camera. I don't understand why this can't be done over USB-C
I think there's overhead penalty in converting video data into USB protocol. If it's already a video file like H.264/265 mp4 video, transferring over USB to external SSD drive, that is fine. Usually HDMI outputs raw video data and the external storage has a in-built ASIC codec to convert the data to ProRes/BRAW raw files on-the-fly in real time.

14) GPS sensor with on/off feature
I think they are happy with the phone-bluetooth version
Not a beautiful solution I must say. Connection can be finicky.

15) Priced at USD$1999 body only
why not get a used a9?
With the 42MP cropped, I ended up having a small 3.5MP file. Using a 24MP camera and crop heavily is going to look worse.

Sony has never replaced the NEX-7. Although, the a6700 gets closer than ever. The features the a6700 is missing, imo, is mainly the enhanced stabilization. Would sony release such a camera? I don't really think so, I think they prefer to let the "pro" aps-c market be captured by fuji etc, and in any case, the only true pro aps-c market is PL-mount cine. I personally don't know any wildlife photographers that use APS-C anymore, but I know a couple that's holding on to their MFT, particularly birders.
The Canon R7 and Fuji H2s are gaining ground in the wildlife photography, and I bet Nikon would gain traction too if they release a D500 replacement Z camera. Their AF tracking and speed are very usable, not the best though. One can only hope/dream Sony would release the Kraken. Hahaha
 
I shoot with the A7r.3 and usually crop very heavily for wildlife photography.
you also use a 70-300, so maybe start with getting a 200-600?
The shots I heavily cropped, more often than not, has a final size of about 2100 x 1700 pixels (about 3.5MP). I find that very miserable, so would it boost to 10MP by going 600mm?
it would be 14mp in your example above.
1) 16fps mech / 25fps ES
mech, no, es yes.
Faster mech shutter has it's advantage too, both with a speed bump is a big welcome.
possibly, but edge case imo.
6) A1 class AF tracking and speed
I think a1 is dual bionz XR, and not latest gen, so seems unlikely both way.
I'm happy even if Sony puts a A9ii Bionz inside just for a high perf APSc. :-D
the a6700 has a bionz Xr which is more powerful than the a9ii chip.
8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better
I would look to fuji, 26mp stacked or 42mp non-stacked.
The Fuji H2s AF speed and tracking is still a tad behind Sony, if I read correctly. But yea, for APSc now, it's either Fuji or Canon R7.
imo, APSc isn’t really a thing for wildlife anymore.
9) EVF 3.6 million dots at 0.78x mag equiv size
no opinion. but seems a stretch
I think the OM-1 has 5.7 million dots and 0.82x mag equiv EVF. I'm only asking for 3.6, very modest request. Hahaha
10) Max mech shutter speed 1/8000
don't think so.
Why not? It's not like having 1/8000 mech shutter speed is new/high tech, it has been around for decades.
because you would rather put the money toward a better sensor than a high end shutter.
11) Min shutter speed goes to 2mins
max? no opinion
Current Sony cameras only do 30s. Pathetic right? Hahahaha. And increasing it doesn't cost Sony anything, just a software tweak.
how so? Stack? Bear in mind electronic crosstalk and noise.
13) Micro HDMI output to external recorder for ProRes or BRAW recording
if so, I would expect full size HDMI, but again sounds like an FX camera. I don't understand why this can't be done over USB-C
I think there's overhead penalty in converting video data into USB protocol. If it's already a video file like H.264/265 mp4 video, transferring over USB to external SSD drive, that is fine. Usually HDMI outputs raw video data and the external storage has a in-built ASIC codec to convert the data to ProRes/BRAW raw files on-the-fly in real time.
don’t think so.
14) GPS sensor with on/off feature
I think they are happy with the phone-bluetooth version
Not a beautiful solution I must say. Connection can be finicky.
well it takes time to acquire gps terrestrially, and is obviously not reliable in enclosed spaces. I would enjoy gps too, but I can understand the engineering logic here.
15) Priced at USD$1999 body only
why not get a used a9?
With the 42MP cropped, I ended up having a small 3.5MP file. Using a 24MP camera and crop heavily is going to look worse.
not if you get the 200-600, you can also add the 1.4tc
Sony has never replaced the NEX-7. Although, the a6700 gets closer than ever. The features the a6700 is missing, imo, is mainly the enhanced stabilization. Would sony release such a camera? I don't really think so, I think they prefer to let the "pro" aps-c market be captured by fuji etc, and in any case, the only true pro aps-c market is PL-mount cine. I personally don't know any wildlife photographers that use APS-C anymore, but I know a couple that's holding on to their MFT, particularly birders.
The Canon R7 and Fuji H2s are gaining ground in the wildlife photography,
really they aren’t, but ok.
and I bet Nikon would gain traction too if they release a D500 replacement Z camera.
We’ll see. I think it’s the z8 that’s the Nikon wildlife cam par excellence
Their AF tracking and speed are very usable, not the best though. One can only hope/dream Sony would release the Kraken. Hahaha
It’s sufficient on the z8/z9 but non stacked sensor cameras from Nikon are not a good choice for wildlife.
 
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How about a Panasonic G9 with PanLeica 100-400? Lotsa reach in a relatively small package.
 
Because the AF is not up to the Sony standard for wildlife by some distance?
 
How about a Panasonic G9 with PanLeica 100-400? Lotsa reach in a relatively small package.
If the G9ii has a new 25MP sensor with phase detect and is a stacked design, I might happily live with it and the 100-400mm lens. Also dependent on the new processor improvement to match with the new sensor. Hahahaha
 
why not get a used a9?
With the 42MP cropped, I ended up having a small 3.5MP file. Using a 24MP camera and crop heavily is going to look worse.
not if you get the 200-600, you can also add the 1.4tc
Looks like I'll have to rent a 200-600mm lens to find out how much crop will occur.
and I bet Nikon would gain traction too if they release a D500 replacement Z camera.
We’ll see. I think it’s the z8 that’s the Nikon wildlife cam par excellence
The size and weight of the Z8 is.... hahahaha

Both the H2s and R7 are in the 600g range.
 
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How about a Panasonic G9 with PanLeica 100-400? Lotsa reach in a relatively small package.
If the G9ii has a new 25MP sensor with phase detect and is a stacked design, I might happily live with it and the 100-400mm lens. Also dependent on the new processor improvement to match with the new sensor. Hahahaha
The OM1 has only 20Mpix, but that's only 12% lower linear resolution than 25Mpix. It has a stacked Quad-Bayer sensor with a ridiculous number of PDAF points. You can fit a Panasonic 100-400 lens on it and only lose some minor functions. I have a 300/4 on mine, with MC14 when 420mm is needed.

The OM1 is king of the red kite league table for in focus RAW image captures per second and not too bad at sticky bird recognition. ProCapture is very handy. Lower price than other stacked sensor bodies.

We will have to see what the G9ii has, if it ever arrives. The OM1 is based around a commercial Sony MFT sensor, so anyone can buy it. Sony are more likely to be developing an FF Quad Bayer stacked sensor than another MFT stacked sensor. Panasonic might be working with Towerjazz. I think Panasonic are more concerned about video than wildlife stills.

If Sony produce an APSC body with a stacked sensor, it won't cost less than $2,400 and likely more. If it outperforms the Fuji, it can command a higher price.

Andrew
 
I shoot with the A7r.3 and usually crop very heavily for wildlife photography.
you also use a 70-300, so maybe start with getting a 200-600?
1) 16fps mech / 25fps ES
mech, no, es yes.
Very fast mechanical shutters have to use larger motors - they are bigger, and may not fit into the APS-C body that Sony uses.
2) Faster flash sync of 1/250
doubt it, but don't know the current max for es
The A1 offers 1/200 on electronic shutter, and 1/400 on mechanical shutter, but that's a special mechanical shutter (carbon fibre, motorised in both directions).

If you are asking for 8ms on the read from the sensor, the best you could get would be 1/125 (and probably slower).
3) Faster readout speed at 8ms
presumably there could be a stacked sensor, but me personally don't think they want to be in that segment.
Would need to be a stacked sensor for 8ms. Stacked sensors are very expensive - the likelihood you'll get one in a camera at your chosen price point - not any time soon!
4) Bigger buffer and faster write times
right...
5) Hybrid Type A and SDXC UHS-ii card slot. Don't mind it being just 1 card slot for APSc
no opinion
6) A1 class AF tracking and speed
I think a1 is dual bionz XR, and not latest gen, so seems unlikely both way.
Bionz XR is the basis of all the new bodies, but to get the latest AF you also need to add the chip that Marketing insist is "AI" - the chip that first appeared in the A7RV - that's the AF you'd be likely to get (the A6700 already has it).
7) More slope-y shutter button for better ergo
Sony may amend ergo at some point.
8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better
I would look to fuji, 26mp stacked or 42mp non-stacked.
9) EVF 3.6 million dots at 0.78x mag equiv size
no opinion. but seems a stretch
The A6700 EVF is 2.something Mdot. Sony put 3.someting into the A7RIII, 5.something into the A7RIV, and 9.something into the A7RV (same as the A1. It really does make a difference. Catch is that the 9Mdot EVF is somewhat larger, and may not fit. Maybe ask for 5Mdot?
10) Max mech shutter speed 1/8000
don't think so.
It you are asking for 16fps (highly unlikely!), you'd probably get 1/8000.

Then again, the electronic shutter may well go to 1/32000.
11) Min shutter speed goes to 2mins
max? no opinion
The new bulb timer in the A7RV goes out a lot further than that. Not sure if Sony would bother going to 2 minutes when they could re-use the bulb timer code.
12) Video ability to shoot open gate at 400Mbps on the Type A card all-I frames
seems unlikely. given that this would be a non-fx camera
13) Micro HDMI output to external recorder for ProRes or BRAW recording
if so, I would expect full size HDMI, but again sounds like an FX camera. I don't understand why this can't be done over USB-C
full size HDMI sounds more practical with an external recorder - the micro HDMI seems fragile to me.
14) GPS sensor with on/off feature
I think they are happy with the phone-bluetooth version
15) Priced at USD$1999 body only
why not get a used a9?
If Sony would produce such a camera, I am most glad to pick one up and the 200-600mm lens combo. Don't mind it being another 100g heavier than the A6700. Can this dream come true?
Sony has never replaced the NEX-7. Although, the a6700 gets closer than ever. The features the a6700 is missing, imo, is mainly the enhanced stabilization. Would sony release such a camera? I don't really think so, I think they prefer to let the "pro" aps-c market be captured by fuji etc, and in any case, the only true pro aps-c market is PL-mount cine. I personally don't know any wildlife photographers that use APS-C anymore, but I know a couple that's holding on to their MFT, particularly birders.
 
Sony says the a6700 is not their Flagship cropped camera.

So that strongly suggest that a Flagship stacked sensor cropped camera may very well be in the works. The cost at a MIN would be $2000.
 
Sony says the a6700 is not their Flagship cropped camera.

So that strongly suggest that a Flagship stacked sensor cropped camera may very well be in the works. The cost at a MIN would be $2000.
Keeping those fingers crossed! Hahahaha
Sorry to burst the bubble.. but yea..

77f32da5f3f543578abe7717fb31fe0f.jpg.png

18607cdf2f21492bb3c43c8eefdd66c7.jpg.png

But yes, to be honest the high end crop camera, the D500 of today is already here. Sony already has it. It's the a6700. Canon has it too. It's the R7. Fujifilm's equivalent of the D500 is the X-T5. I know people like to compare the D500 with the stacked sensor X-H2s, but the D500 was a non-stacked sensor 20MP crop camera that shoots 10 fps. Both the a6700 and the R7 handily beats it. It's also reflected in how well the R7 and X-T5 sold in Japan, especially relatively in comparison to the X-H2 and X-H2s.

Just get those cameras now because it's probably going to be enough for what you want to do and more. If you're playing the "there's always be a better upgrade" game then there's no end to the wait.
 
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Coincidentally, yesterday I was out shooting and wished there's a high performance APSc camera, and today I read the A6700 review.

I shoot with the A7r.3 and usually crop very heavily for wildlife photography. So I was wondering if Sony would make a high perf APSc for wildlife and sports for the extra reach with the megapixel density to boot? I seriously don't see myself or many others buying the A1 just to use crop mode (as a hobby enthusiast). Some heavily cropped samples below.

What I hope to see is boost over the current A6700:

1) 16fps mech / 25fps ES

2) Faster flash sync of 1/250

3) Faster readout speed at 8ms

4) Bigger buffer and faster write times

5) Hybrid Type A and SDXC UHS-ii card slot. Don't mind it being just 1 card slot for APSc

6) A1 class AF tracking and speed

7) More slope-y shutter button for better ergo

8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better

9) EVF 3.6 million dots at 0.78x mag equiv size

10) Max mech shutter speed 1/8000

11) Min shutter speed goes to 2mins

12) Video ability to shoot open gate at 400Mbps on the Type A card all-I frames

13) Micro HDMI output to external recorder for ProRes or BRAW recording

14) GPS sensor with on/off feature

15) Priced at USD$1999 body only

If Sony would produce such a camera, I am most glad to pick one up and the 200-600mm lens combo. Don't mind it being another 100g heavier than the A6700. Can this dream come true?
I have a somewhat shorter list of what I would need to see:

1) Stacked sensor (Exmor RS) - 26MP is fine. There's one used in the Fuji X-H2S which I'm pretty sure is made by Sony

2) AI based subject recognition same as A7R5 and A6700 - I think all Sony models going forward will have this anyway. I think the A1's AF performance comes from the stacked sensor's faster readout.

3) EVF same as or better than A7IV.

4) A hybrid Type A / UHS-II would be nice and a single slot is fine.

5) Stacked sensor would eliminate the need for a mechanical shutter - like Nikon's Z8 & Z9

This is something I would definitely be interested in as I shoot my A7R5 in cropped mode for birds over 90% of the time.
 
8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better
If I were you, I'd look at the Studio Comparison Tool and compare your a7R III vs the a6700. The a7R III resolves more detail than a 26 MP APS-C sensor despite a larger pixel. The 40 MP XT-5 doesn't beat your a7R III for resolving detail.
 
8) Stacked sensor, 26MP is fine / 30MP even better
If I were you, I'd look at the Studio Comparison Tool and compare your a7R III vs the a6700. The a7R III resolves more detail than a 26 MP APS-C sensor despite a larger pixel. The 40 MP XT-5 doesn't beat your a7R III for resolving detail.
Could this be because of the absent AA-filter of the A7r3? It is strikingly good camera, even after so many years.
 

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