Thoughts on Nikon DX...

I don’t really see the Z5 price comparison as relevant. It’s a question of who would be the potential buyers of a more advanced DX body. Casual photographers have long gone; they use their phones. If you’re a beginner “serious hobbyist” photographer then yes you might buy a lower-end FX camera. So who wants a better DX? I agree with the recent Thom Hogan article - some serious hobbyists who have a high-end FX camera want a lightweight kit for travel; I certainly do. Currently I use a Z50 but I’d definitely buy something better. I want it from Nikon because the user interface will be similar to my FX camera (muscle memory and all that). Is this a big enough market for a “serious” DX camera from Nikon? I don’t know.
 
Currently it would seem Nikon will NEITHER bring out (in the foreseeable future) a prosumer level DX Z option (IBIS, upgraded AF, 10 bit 4k video) NOR a Z6iii with minimally upgraded AF and 10 bit video.

In other words, in terms of camera models Nikon will presently only really serve the > 4k$ Z8/9 market (amazing cameras that they are) and leave its Z50/Z6/ii, and legacy D600/750, and D7k users hanging on with basically 5 year or older technology, or entice them to switch brands (granted that for all its users Nikon does offer excellent glass and great ergonomics)

This may be a profitable corporate strategy for now, but not one that inspires my confidence in Nikon's concern for its long-term users nor its long term success.
I don't see how "currently it would seem" is any indication of what will happen "in the foreseeable future". It always seems like Nikon isn't releasing something until they do.
To put it more clearly, I think Nikon should already have released a more advanced DX camera by now if they want to remain competitive in this part of the market.
I agree with you but you could also argue that the Z8 was critical and the Z6III is equally critical and Nikon has been playing catch up for years and they have to prioritize. I'd be disappointed if Nikon didn't have the same concerns as you do about an advanced DX and a Z6III or similar camera.
I agree with you that the Z6III is needed at least as much as a Z70. My point was that presently we have neither, and if the rumors are to be believed we may not have either until 2024 at the earliest.
 
At current UK prices you can get the Z5+ 24-70s lens which is a very good performer .
You're buying on price. My point has been about usability. The Z5 combo is 41.5 ounces (1175g), while a Sony A6700 with the Sigma f/2.8 zoom is 27.7 ounces (784g). You're getting close to saving a pound.

And then there's this: the Z5's autofocus isn't state of the art, just like the Z5 problem.
If you look at the latest lens sales data from CIPA you can see why the concentration is on FF lenses. Despite lenses for sensors smaller than FF selling 93000+ more the FF lenses . The FF lenses generated 3.2x the money. Based on latest data to May this year from CIPA
Sort of. Unfortunately those stats include kit lenses, which on the smaller format cameras are often bought with the camera, whereas most of the full frame bodies are bought sans lens these days. Moreover, if you look around at a lot of crop sensor users, you'll find that many of them are using full frame lenses ;~).
Just my personal opinion

It's obvious that there is a lot of interest in a higher end, cropped sensor camera from Nikon, so it would probably be a good business decision to build one

As a customer, count me as "not interested". If the pictures are important enough (ie getting paid for them) I'll suck it up and take what I need.

For personal projects, if I'm traveling and want to save weight or space, I still have a functioning A7S and A7R. Both of these cameras weigh about the same as the new A6700. Of course, that extra $1,500 in my wallet might add a little weight, but that can be easily reduced!

A6700: 493 grams

A7S: 489 grams

A7R: 474 grams

What exactly are we saving here?
I also am not interested in high end crop cameras, but I'd definitely rather have something like a Z70 than any 1st gen Sony body. Their only redeeming qualities at this point are image quality and price.
 
Look, I think we have plenty of evidence at this point to see that Nikon's strategy with crop sensor changed with mirrorless. The problem I see with that is exactly what I've written about this week: it leaves them with a big hole in the middle of their product lineup. You can't really move DX triplet users up, you can't compete against the competition in the middle, nor do you have a camera that would appeal to the top enthusiast/pros as a more casual camera. That's three strikes...
I tend to agree Thom. Let's hope Nikon gets the "A6700 Memo." I'm sure Nikon is watching what their competitors are up to and this new offering from SONY may push Nikon to fill the gap you mention.
The only thing that Nikon would seriously be worried about is losing that FX customer that want a more casual camera. The other first strike is about growing the new photog customer base, which Nikon does NOT want to be mostly casual users; the second strike is about that small percentage of pro FX customers for which a performance compact camera serves an essential business need; the third strike could be seen mostly as meeting just a personal need. That pro FX customer isn't going to brand switch if their livelihood is built on business/pro FX. It might make switching easier for them if by not selling a performance compact camera they suspect that Nikon is not offering enough differentiating tech for their business.
Nikon's mirrorless strategy could be concisely stated as: We're becoming a strictly Business to Business company. We wish to thank the many Nikon enthusiasts that have enjoyed our products over the years, but, well, there aren't a lot of you left and in any case you're far too fickle for us to base a company on you anymore.
Trouble is, those many enthusiasts have been subsidizing the few pros for years, and that hasn't changed.
 
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A6700: 493 grams

A7S: 489 grams
The current A7S Mark III is 699g (you have to include battery and card).
A7R: 474 grams
Ditto. It's 665g.
Yeah, the Z cameras came out and I never followed the Sony upgrade path :)

As you have said more than once, there is a point when existing cameras are "good enough", and for a stick in the backpack camera, the early Sony's are good enough.

In fact on vacation I'm shooting a lot of film, so I'll just throw an F mount adaptor on the Sony in case I need digital (like at night). So I'm not even taking any lenses specifically for them.

And of course, the phone is always along for the ride.

The only thing I would want out of a new DX camera from Nikon is a stable, profitable Nikon
 
At current UK prices you can get the Z5+ 24-70s lens which is a very good performer .
You're buying on price. My point has been about usability. The Z5 combo is 41.5 ounces (1175g), while a Sony A6700 with the Sigma f/2.8 zoom is 27.7 ounces (784g). You're getting close to saving a pound.

And then there's this: the Z5's autofocus isn't state of the art, just like the Z5 problem.
If you look at the latest lens sales data from CIPA you can see why the concentration is on FF lenses. Despite lenses for sensors smaller than FF selling 93000+ more the FF lenses . The FF lenses generated 3.2x the money. Based on latest data to May this year from CIPA
Sort of. Unfortunately those stats include kit lenses, which on the smaller format cameras are often bought with the camera, whereas most of the full frame bodies are bought sans lens these days. Moreover, if you look around at a lot of crop sensor users, you'll find that many of them are using full frame lenses ;~).
Just my personal opinion

It's obvious that there is a lot of interest in a higher end, cropped sensor camera from Nikon, so it would probably be a good business decision to build one

As a customer, count me as "not interested". If the pictures are important enough (ie getting paid for them) I'll suck it up and take what I need.

For personal projects, if I'm traveling and want to save weight or space, I still have a functioning A7S and A7R. Both of these cameras weigh about the same as the new A6700. Of course, that extra $1,500 in my wallet might add a little weight, but that can be easily reduced!

A6700: 493 grams

A7S: 489 grams

A7R: 474 grams

What exactly are we saving here?
I also am not interested in high end crop cameras, but I'd definitely rather have something like a Z70 than any 1st gen Sony body. Their only redeeming qualities at this point are image quality and price.
I'll add one more redeeming quality: I already have one (of each) :) Or is that just a "price" feature?
 
At current UK prices you can get the Z5+ 24-70s lens which is a very good performer .
You're buying on price. My point has been about usability. The Z5 combo is 41.5 ounces (1175g), while a Sony A6700 with the Sigma f/2.8 zoom is 27.7 ounces (784g). You're getting close to saving a pound.

And then there's this: the Z5's autofocus isn't state of the art, just like the Z5 problem.
If you look at the latest lens sales data from CIPA you can see why the concentration is on FF lenses. Despite lenses for sensors smaller than FF selling 93000+ more the FF lenses . The FF lenses generated 3.2x the money. Based on latest data to May this year from CIPA
Sort of. Unfortunately those stats include kit lenses, which on the smaller format cameras are often bought with the camera, whereas most of the full frame bodies are bought sans lens these days. Moreover, if you look around at a lot of crop sensor users, you'll find that many of them are using full frame lenses ;~).
Just my personal opinion

It's obvious that there is a lot of interest in a higher end, cropped sensor camera from Nikon, so it would probably be a good business decision to build one

As a customer, count me as "not interested". If the pictures are important enough (ie getting paid for them) I'll suck it up and take what I need.

For personal projects, if I'm traveling and want to save weight or space, I still have a functioning A7S and A7R. Both of these cameras weigh about the same as the new A6700. Of course, that extra $1,500 in my wallet might add a little weight, but that can be easily reduced!

A6700: 493 grams

A7S: 489 grams

A7R: 474 grams

What exactly are we saving here?
Where do you get those weights? According to B&H, weight with battery:

a6700: 493g

a7rV: 723g
 
It has been a long time in digital years since Nikon made a high end APS camera
2017 (D7500), which is a year after Sony introduced the A6500.
I am not sure that qualifies as a high end body though I did forget about it :-) I was of course thinking of the D500
Look, I think we have plenty of evidence at this point to see that Nikon's strategy with crop sensor changed with mirrorless. The problem I see with that is exactly what I've written about this week: it leaves them with a big hole in the middle of their product lineup. You can't really move DX triplet users up, you can't compete against the competition in the middle, nor do you have a camera that would appeal to the top enthusiast/pros as a more casual camera. That's three strikes...
The camera market is all over the place right now , who knows how it will play out.

--
Jim Stirling:
“It is one thing to show a man that he is in error, and another to put him in possession of truth.” Locke
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post
 
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At current UK prices you can get the Z5+ 24-70s lens which is a very good performer .
You're buying on price. My point has been about usability. The Z5 combo is 41.5 ounces (1175g), while a Sony A6700 with the Sigma f/2.8 zoom is 27.7 ounces (784g). You're getting close to saving a pound.

And then there's this: the Z5's autofocus isn't state of the art, just like the Z5 problem.
If you look at the latest lens sales data from CIPA you can see why the concentration is on FF lenses. Despite lenses for sensors smaller than FF selling 93000+ more the FF lenses . The FF lenses generated 3.2x the money. Based on latest data to May this year from CIPA
Sort of. Unfortunately those stats include kit lenses, which on the smaller format cameras are often bought with the camera, whereas most of the full frame bodies are bought sans lens these days. Moreover, if you look around at a lot of crop sensor users, you'll find that many of them are using full frame lenses ;~).
Just my personal opinion

It's obvious that there is a lot of interest in a higher end, cropped sensor camera from Nikon, so it would probably be a good business decision to build one

As a customer, count me as "not interested". If the pictures are important enough (ie getting paid for them) I'll suck it up and take what I need.

For personal projects, if I'm traveling and want to save weight or space, I still have a functioning A7S and A7R. Both of these cameras weigh about the same as the new A6700. Of course, that extra $1,500 in my wallet might add a little weight, but that can be easily reduced!

A6700: 493 grams

A7S: 489 grams

A7R: 474 grams

What exactly are we saving here?
Where do you get those weights? According to B&H, weight with battery:

a6700: 493g

a7rV: 723g
The A7Rv was not mentioned the A7R { 1 } with battery according to DPreview weighs in at 465g.
Sony Alpha 7R Review: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
 
It's going the same way MFT has been, and the way point and shoots have.

Cell phones are eating the lower end market more and more (see the 'tele' lenses on phones these days).

You'll have some crop stuff, but it's not a major focus for Nikon because they don't have the money (especially to get sensors made) or time to split their attention between dx which doesn't make that much money, vs high end cameras and lenses that do.

I think even Sony and Canon will hit that point eventually, but they have money to burn for the time being to keep it going.

Reality is low end FF gear is about what the middling crop stuff is (z5 isn't much more than the z50). And if you're getting good lenses for something, they're probably FF lenses anyway.
m4/3 has had an upwards surge in market share (at least in East Asia) since the release of the OM-1 and the exotics (8-25 f/4, 150-400 f/4.5 and 90mm f/3.5 Macro).
Now compare overall market share.

MFT is less than 5% total of the market. That's...nothing.

Not to say it can't make a good setup, or are bad cameras, but all in all, MFT is being reduced in scope because phone cameras are largely catching up to that format for most people.
Fuji is 9%. Is that nothing too? What is Nikon DX in comparison? Next to nothing?
 
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It's going the same way MFT has been, and the way point and shoots have.

Cell phones are eating the lower end market more and more (see the 'tele' lenses on phones these days).

You'll have some crop stuff, but it's not a major focus for Nikon because they don't have the money (especially to get sensors made) or time to split their attention between dx which doesn't make that much money, vs high end cameras and lenses that do.

I think even Sony and Canon will hit that point eventually, but they have money to burn for the time being to keep it going.

Reality is low end FF gear is about what the middling crop stuff is (z5 isn't much more than the z50). And if you're getting good lenses for something, they're probably FF lenses anyway.
m4/3 has had an upwards surge in market share (at least in East Asia) since the release of the OM-1 and the exotics (8-25 f/4, 150-400 f/4.5 and 90mm f/3.5 Macro).
Now compare overall market share.

MFT is less than 5% total of the market. That's...nothing.

Not to say it can't make a good setup, or are bad cameras, but all in all, MFT is being reduced in scope because phone cameras are largely catching up to that format for most people.
Fuji is 9%. Is that nothing too? What is Nikon DX in comparison? Next to nothing?
I think the way the market has gone now it is not so much about mass market appeal as that is gone. But rather finding a niche where your company can survive and make a profit. m43 has always had the smallest share of the ILC market . It is all about viability nowadays.

I guess as a Nikon Z and m43 user I am screwed :-)
 
At current UK prices you can get the Z5+ 24-70s lens which is a very good performer .
You're buying on price. My point has been about usability. The Z5 combo is 41.5 ounces (1175g), while a Sony A6700 with the Sigma f/2.8 zoom is 27.7 ounces (784g). You're getting close to saving a pound.

And then there's this: the Z5's autofocus isn't state of the art, just like the Z5 problem.
If you look at the latest lens sales data from CIPA you can see why the concentration is on FF lenses. Despite lenses for sensors smaller than FF selling 93000+ more the FF lenses . The FF lenses generated 3.2x the money. Based on latest data to May this year from CIPA
Sort of. Unfortunately those stats include kit lenses, which on the smaller format cameras are often bought with the camera, whereas most of the full frame bodies are bought sans lens these days. Moreover, if you look around at a lot of crop sensor users, you'll find that many of them are using full frame lenses ;~).
Just my personal opinion

It's obvious that there is a lot of interest in a higher end, cropped sensor camera from Nikon, so it would probably be a good business decision to build one

As a customer, count me as "not interested". If the pictures are important enough (ie getting paid for them) I'll suck it up and take what I need.

For personal projects, if I'm traveling and want to save weight or space, I still have a functioning A7S and A7R. Both of these cameras weigh about the same as the new A6700. Of course, that extra $1,500 in my wallet might add a little weight, but that can be easily reduced!

A6700: 493 grams

A7S: 489 grams

A7R: 474 grams

What exactly are we saving here?
Where do you get those weights? According to B&H, weight with battery:

a6700: 493g

a7rV: 723g
The A7Rv was not mentioned the A7R { 1 } with battery according to DPreview weighs in at 465g.
Sony Alpha 7R Review: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
Yes, that is the 2014 model, so probably not relevant in comparisons today.
 
I agree with you that the Z6III is needed at least as much as a Z70. My point was that presently we have neither, and if the rumors are to be believed we may not have either until 2024 at the earliest.
Yes and my point is that I would be surprised if Nikon wasn't also aware that we don't have either and that both are needed. In other words, just because they are needed or wanted doesn't mean Nikon can magically make it happen along with every other priority they have. Again, Nikon made their bed by waiting too long to seriously enter the mirrorless space and they are still paying for it. I think they have closed the gap in a lot of areas over the last 5 years since the release of the Z6/Z7 but as you've noted, they still have work to do.
 
It's going the same way MFT has been, and the way point and shoots have.

Cell phones are eating the lower end market more and more (see the 'tele' lenses on phones these days).

You'll have some crop stuff, but it's not a major focus for Nikon because they don't have the money (especially to get sensors made) or time to split their attention between dx which doesn't make that much money, vs high end cameras and lenses that do.

I think even Sony and Canon will hit that point eventually, but they have money to burn for the time being to keep it going.

Reality is low end FF gear is about what the middling crop stuff is (z5 isn't much more than the z50). And if you're getting good lenses for something, they're probably FF lenses anyway.
m4/3 has had an upwards surge in market share (at least in East Asia) since the release of the OM-1 and the exotics (8-25 f/4, 150-400 f/4.5 and 90mm f/3.5 Macro).
Now compare overall market share.

MFT is less than 5% total of the market. That's...nothing.

Not to say it can't make a good setup, or are bad cameras, but all in all, MFT is being reduced in scope because phone cameras are largely catching up to that format for most people.
Fuji is 9%. Is that nothing too? What is Nikon DX in comparison? Next to nothing?
Fuji fills two niches, they're fine. MFT as a whole, being made up of (in the past) multiple manufacturers (sharing the same mount though) being under 5 is a death knell. They're not coming back to steal more from that position.

I'd say Fuji isn't either really, MF is too niche to add on too much, and they'll only add more for crop sensor if Nikon/Sony/Canon drop it, but at least Fuji isn't losing market share either.
 
Again, Nikon made their bed by waiting too long to seriously enter the mirrorless space and they are still paying for it.
I agree with everything else you've mentioned ealier, but I think when Nikon entered mirrorless is/was not the issue. I see this mentioned all the time. Although perhaps not as "serious", Nikon has been making mirrorless cameras (Coolpix) since the late 90's, before the D1 existed.

I think Nikon's problem was that they were vastly over-confident in their mirrorless focusing system that worked plenty fine for consumer bodies with smaller (often integrated) lenses on small sensors. Scaling up their mirrorless focusing to a bigger sensor, even with significantly larger lenses (more light) and better processing power, did not scale to the level Nikon user's expected for the prices of Nikon's bodies. Keep in mind, the Z7 initially released for $3499 US.

Not trying to dig on Nikon, because if anyone remembers the Canon R and RP, they will also remember they weren't exactly the best cameras on release either (and unlike Nikon, Canon seems to have forsaken those in the dust). Those early Canon cameras or at least the EOS R, on the other hand, were quickly redesigned or replaced with significantly better performing models. Nikon has yet to replace their core tech they had at launch, that's still in the Z7ii and Z6ii.
I think they have closed the gap in a lot of areas over the last 5 years since the release of the Z6/Z7 but as you've noted, they still have work to do.
Like the rest of what you said, completely agreed. Nikon has been on a hot-streak with their superb glass and Z9 / Z8. They just have to keep it up.
 
At current UK prices you can get the Z5+ 24-70s lens which is a very good performer .
You're buying on price. My point has been about usability. The Z5 combo is 41.5 ounces (1175g), while a Sony A6700 with the Sigma f/2.8 zoom is 27.7 ounces (784g). You're getting close to saving a pound.

And then there's this: the Z5's autofocus isn't state of the art, just like the Z5 problem.
If you look at the latest lens sales data from CIPA you can see why the concentration is on FF lenses. Despite lenses for sensors smaller than FF selling 93000+ more the FF lenses . The FF lenses generated 3.2x the money. Based on latest data to May this year from CIPA
Sort of. Unfortunately those stats include kit lenses, which on the smaller format cameras are often bought with the camera, whereas most of the full frame bodies are bought sans lens these days. Moreover, if you look around at a lot of crop sensor users, you'll find that many of them are using full frame lenses ;~).
Just my personal opinion

It's obvious that there is a lot of interest in a higher end, cropped sensor camera from Nikon, so it would probably be a good business decision to build one

As a customer, count me as "not interested". If the pictures are important enough (ie getting paid for them) I'll suck it up and take what I need.

For personal projects, if I'm traveling and want to save weight or space, I still have a functioning A7S and A7R. Both of these cameras weigh about the same as the new A6700. Of course, that extra $1,500 in my wallet might add a little weight, but that can be easily reduced!

A6700: 493 grams

A7S: 489 grams

A7R: 474 grams

What exactly are we saving here?
Where do you get those weights? According to B&H, weight with battery:

a6700: 493g

a7rV: 723g
I have an A7R first version
 
At current UK prices you can get the Z5+ 24-70s lens which is a very good performer .
You're buying on price. My point has been about usability. The Z5 combo is 41.5 ounces (1175g), while a Sony A6700 with the Sigma f/2.8 zoom is 27.7 ounces (784g). You're getting close to saving a pound.

And then there's this: the Z5's autofocus isn't state of the art, just like the Z5 problem.
If you look at the latest lens sales data from CIPA you can see why the concentration is on FF lenses. Despite lenses for sensors smaller than FF selling 93000+ more the FF lenses . The FF lenses generated 3.2x the money. Based on latest data to May this year from CIPA
Sort of. Unfortunately those stats include kit lenses, which on the smaller format cameras are often bought with the camera, whereas most of the full frame bodies are bought sans lens these days. Moreover, if you look around at a lot of crop sensor users, you'll find that many of them are using full frame lenses ;~).
Just my personal opinion

It's obvious that there is a lot of interest in a higher end, cropped sensor camera from Nikon, so it would probably be a good business decision to build one

As a customer, count me as "not interested". If the pictures are important enough (ie getting paid for them) I'll suck it up and take what I need.

For personal projects, if I'm traveling and want to save weight or space, I still have a functioning A7S and A7R. Both of these cameras weigh about the same as the new A6700. Of course, that extra $1,500 in my wallet might add a little weight, but that can be easily reduced!

A6700: 493 grams

A7S: 489 grams

A7R: 474 grams

What exactly are we saving here?
Where do you get those weights? According to B&H, weight with battery:

a6700: 493g

a7rV: 723g
The A7Rv was not mentioned the A7R { 1 } with battery according to DPreview weighs in at 465g.
Sony Alpha 7R Review: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
Yes, that is the 2014 model, so probably not relevant in comparisons today.
Still takes great pictures. And less filling :) As a backup camera to my backup camera, its great. And paid for
 
Again, Nikon made their bed by waiting too long to seriously enter the mirrorless space and they are still paying for it.
I agree with everything else you've mentioned ealier, but I think when Nikon entered mirrorless is/was not the issue. I see this mentioned all the time. Although perhaps not as "serious", Nikon has been making mirrorless cameras (Coolpix) since the late 90's, before the D1 existed.

I think Nikon's problem was that they were vastly over-confident in their mirrorless focusing system that worked plenty fine for consumer bodies with smaller (often integrated) lenses on small sensors. Scaling up their mirrorless focusing to a bigger sensor, even with significantly larger lenses (more light) and better processing power, did not scale to the level Nikon user's expected for the prices of Nikon's bodies. Keep in mind, the Z7 initially released for $3499 US.

Not trying to dig on Nikon, because if anyone remembers the Canon R and RP, they will also remember they weren't exactly the best cameras on release either (and unlike Nikon, Canon seems to have forsaken those in the dust). Those early Canon cameras or at least the EOS R, on the other hand, were quickly redesigned or replaced with significantly better performing models. Nikon has yet to replace their core tech they had at launch, that's still in the Z7ii and Z6ii.
I think they have closed the gap in a lot of areas over the last 5 years since the release of the Z6/Z7 but as you've noted, they still have work to do.
Like the rest of what you said, completely agreed. Nikon has been on a hot-streak with their superb glass and Z9 / Z8. They just have to keep it up.
A ARMY of Sony yTubers.

That along with the surge of Smart Phones as Good enough for most images. Plus both Nikon and Canon had the issue of dealing with their Old DSLR customers while also, providing an all new Mirrorless platform.

Now that legacy of DSLRs for both Nikon and Canon is mostly over. Which is why I have posted, the Free Ride for Sony, is now over. I would say having a complete cropped lineup is essential in doing that. Both Sony and Canon seem to feel that way, Nikon must play that same game, also.

A proper D500 mirrorless replacement would go nicely with that new, 180 600mm lens.
 
Again, Nikon made their bed by waiting too long to seriously enter the mirrorless space and they are still paying for it.
I agree with everything else you've mentioned ealier, but I think when Nikon entered mirrorless is/was not the issue. I see this mentioned all the time. Although perhaps not as "serious", Nikon has been making mirrorless cameras (Coolpix) since the late 90's, before the D1 existed.
I think Nikon's problem was that they were vastly over-confident in their mirrorless focusing system that worked plenty fine for consumer bodies with smaller (often integrated) lenses on small sensors. Scaling up their mirrorless focusing to a bigger sensor, even with significantly larger lenses (more light) and better processing power, did not scale to the level Nikon user's expected for the prices of Nikon's bodies. Keep in mind, the Z7 initially released for $3499 US.
Nikon was over-confident in their assessment of mirrorless vs DSLR in the years after the Sony A7r and before the Z6/7. I watched it unfold like a train wreck you can't stop. Nikon and their DSLR user base seemed to be in lockstep whining nonstop about battery life, viewfinders, etc while the competition understood where things were going even with the DSLR advantages at that point in time.

Nikon essentially joined the DSLR user base in marginalizing or outright dismissing the significance of mirrorless until they had the oh s*&t moment. But as much as people talk about the Z6/Z7 AF, I believe the issue was more about the void in the lens lineup created by being 5 years behind Sony. A Z7 at $3400 would have been a different conversation if Nikon had 25 excellent full frame Z lenses instead of 3.
 

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