DXO PL6 vs Topaz AI

tbcass · Jun 30, 2023

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

--
Tom

jodaco · Jun 30, 2023

tbcass said:
I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Full disclosure: I’m a PureRAW/Lightroom user myself.

I find it interesting that the main differences are in tone and saturation rather than noise and sharpness. In this particular example I think I prefer the Topaz one although in my testing with my own images it has always gone the other way.

either way love the guy sleeping to the left of the plant…or is he enraptured ?

tbcass · Jun 30, 2023

jodaco said:
tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

Full disclosure: I’m a PureRAW/Lightroom user myself.

I find it interesting that the main differences are in tone and saturation rather than noise and sharpness. In this particular example I think I prefer the Topaz one although in my testing with my own images it has always gone the other way.

either way love the guy sleeping to the left of the plant…or is he enraptured ?

There was a major improvement with the latest updates of Topaz AI.

--
Tom

Guy Parsons · Jun 30, 2023

I like the clarity of the DxO version, maybe best seen when comparing those plants on both sides of the base of the lectern.

It probably is a case of some images suits some software better, but in any case they both would be improved over what the camera could do with its jpeg.

jodaco · Jun 30, 2023

Guy Parsons said:
…improved over what the camera could do with its jpeg.

No doubt! All the modern tools recover two stops of ISO noise. Before I’d never shoot above 1600. Now I can push to 6400 when I nail the exposure and 5000 fairly reliably. Really makes the 1” sensor.

Suzatlarge · Jun 30, 2023

Thanks for posting these. I like the DXO version of this image better, but I suppose that's a matter of personal taste. I'm just starting to use these post processing tools, and happy to have them!

sybersitizen · Jun 30, 2023

I've been using both DxO PhotoLab and Topaz Photo AI for longer than you have, and that doesn't look like a characteristic Topaz Photo AI result. It normally removes nearly all traces of noise. Often I choose to override the Autopilot settings to allow a little noise back in.

Here's an ISO 5000 shot of mine, processed from an RX100M3 ARW file:

DxO PhotoLab with Standard preset and DeepPRIME noise reduction set to 100

Topaz Photo AI with Autopilot settings (Remove Noise: Strong, Strength: 8, Detail: 82)

Yes, colors are richer with Photolab, which is a full featured RAW converter. Photo AI is not a full featured RAW converter, so I don't use it that way. My normal use of it is only on edited raster images like JPEGs or TIFFs that might need extra help with noise and/or sharpening.

An interesting observation: The Photo AI version shows a couple of stuck white pixels. PhotoLab's dead pixel correction found them and fixed them.

Horacecoker · Jul 1, 2023

tbcass said:
I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Digital Nigel · Jul 1, 2023

Horacecoker said:
tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Yes, that suggests use of DeepPRIME XD without turning down the Noise model.

Horacecoker · Jul 1, 2023

Digital Nigel said:
Horacecoker said:

tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Click to expand...

Yes, that suggests use of DeepPRIME XD without turning down the Noise model.

But there's another problem. DeepPrime XD looks like it has tried to sharpen these background faces that are obviously out of focus due to the photo being taken at 600mm equivalent zoom. Whereas Topaz AI has rendered them correctly.

Digital Nigel · Jul 1, 2023

Horacecoker said:
Digital Nigel said:

Horacecoker said:

tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Click to expand...

Yes, that suggests use of DeepPRIME XD without turning down the Noise model.

Click to expand...

But there's another problem. DeepPrime XD looks like it has tried to sharpen these background faces that are obviously out of focus due to the photo being taken at 600mm equivalent zoom. Whereas Topaz AI has rendered them correctly.

Yes, agreed. I wonder if different settings in PL6 might have produced a better result (eg, using DeepPRIME, not XD)?

Horacecoker · Jul 1, 2023

Digital Nigel said:
Horacecoker said:

Digital Nigel said:

Horacecoker said:

tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Click to expand...

Yes, that suggests use of DeepPRIME XD without turning down the Noise model.

Click to expand...

But there's another problem. DeepPrime XD looks like it has tried to sharpen these background faces that are obviously out of focus due to the photo being taken at 600mm equivalent zoom. Whereas Topaz AI has rendered them correctly.

Click to expand...

Yes, agreed. I wonder if different settings in PL6 might have produced a better result (eg, using DeepPRIME, not XD)?

Quite possibly. Perhaps Tom could make the raw file available?

Horacecoker · Jul 1, 2023

sybersitizen said:
I've been using both DxO PhotoLab and Topaz Photo AI for longer than you have, and that doesn't look like a characteristic Topaz Photo AI result. It normally removes nearly all traces of noise. Often I choose to override the Autopilot settings to allow a little noise back in.

Here's an ISO 5000 shot of mine, processed from an RX100M3 ARW file:

DxO PhotoLab with Standard preset and DeepPRIME noise reduction set to 100

Topaz Photo AI with Autopilot settings (Remove Noise: Strong, Strength: 8, Detail: 82)

Yes, colors are richer with Photolab, which is a full featured RAW converter. Photo AI is not a full featured RAW converter, so I don't use it that way. My normal use of it is only on edited raster images like JPEGs or TIFFs that might need extra help with noise and/or sharpening.

I'd be happy with either of those images.

sybersitizen said:
An interesting observation: The Photo AI version shows a couple of stuck white pixels. PhotoLab's dead pixel correction found them and fixed them.

Out of curiosity I searched and found the two 'stuck white pixels' (it's raining outside) and zoomed them up in Photoshop. In both cases, the defect spreads out to surrounding pixels. Would a single dead pixel produce that effect?

In the first crop, the brightest pixel isn't white, it's a very pale blue-green.

tbcass · Jul 1, 2023

sybersitizen said:
I've been using both DxO PhotoLab and Topaz Photo AI for longer than you have, and that doesn't look like a characteristic Topaz Photo AI result. It normally removes nearly all traces of noise. Often I choose to override the Autopilot settings to allow a little noise back in.

Here's an ISO 5000 shot of mine, processed from an RX100M3 ARW file:

DxO PhotoLab with Standard preset and DeepPRIME noise reduction set to 100

Topaz Photo AI with Autopilot settings (Remove Noise: Strong, Strength: 8, Detail: 82)

Yes, colors are richer with Photolab, which is a full featured RAW converter. Photo AI is not a full featured RAW converter, so I don't use it that way. My normal use of it is only on edited raster images like JPEGs or TIFFs that might need extra help with noise and/or sharpening.

An interesting observation: The Photo AI version shows a couple of stuck white pixels. PhotoLab's dead pixel correction found them and fixed them.

The fact that you have been using Topaz longer than I have doesn't matter because the latest versions of Topaz make earlier versions obsolete with all the recent upgrades. I have to upgrade Topaz about every 2 or 3 weeks. Previously the difference between Topaz and Photolab was very obvious but with the latest upgrades I installed a few days ago, they are closer. DXO however is my go-to RAW editor because it's full-fledged whereas Topaz has limited controls and relies more on AI for everything.

I never noticed the dead pixels because I tend not to pixel peep that closely. could it possibly be an artifact from the processing not present in the DXO version?

--
Tom

tbcass · Jul 1, 2023

Horacecoker said:
Digital Nigel said:

Horacecoker said:

Digital Nigel said:

Horacecoker said:

tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Click to expand...

Yes, that suggests use of DeepPRIME XD without turning down the Noise model.

Click to expand...

But there's another problem. DeepPrime XD looks like it has tried to sharpen these background faces that are obviously out of focus due to the photo being taken at 600mm equivalent zoom. Whereas Topaz AI has rendered them correctly.

Click to expand...

Yes, agreed. I wonder if different settings in PL6 might have produced a better result (eg, using DeepPRIME, not XD)?

Click to expand...

Quite possibly. Perhaps Tom could make the raw file available?

I have no way of making the RAW file available but when I have a chance I will post a few samples with different settings.

--
Tom

tbcass · Jul 1, 2023

Horacecoker said:
Digital Nigel said:

Horacecoker said:

tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Click to expand...

Yes, that suggests use of DeepPRIME XD without turning down the Noise model.

Click to expand...

But there's another problem. DeepPrime XD looks like it has tried to sharpen these background faces that are obviously out of focus due to the photo being taken at 600mm equivalent zoom. Whereas Topaz AI has rendered them correctly.

Yes, I believe you are correct.

--
Tom

tbcass · Jul 1, 2023

Digital Nigel said:
Horacecoker said:

tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Click to expand...

Yes, that suggests use of DeepPRIME XD without turning down the Noise model.

That is correct.

--
Tom

tbcass · Jul 1, 2023

Horacecoker said:
tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

I used Deep Prime XD which tends to produce more artifacts than Deep Prime but it does reduce the noise more.

--
Tom

Digital Nigel · Jul 1, 2023

tbcass said:
Horacecoker said:

tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Click to expand...

I used Deep Prime XD which tends to produce more artifacts than Deep Prime but it does reduce the noise more.

I suspect DeepPRIME might have been the better choice with this example. And you should always turn down the Noise model with XD (I suggest -40).

Horacecoker · Jul 1, 2023

tbcass said:
Horacecoker said:

Digital Nigel said:

Horacecoker said:

Digital Nigel said:

Horacecoker said:

tbcass said:

I posted this on the photo retouching thread but because nobody seemed interested I will post it here.

The following are processed RAW from the latest versions of both. They are ISO 5000 from a Sony RX10iv which push the limits of the 1" sensor. Comments welcome.

DXO

Topaz

Click to expand...

I prefer the Topaz image. The artifacts produced in the DxO image are unacceptable to me.

Here's a 100% crop example.

Click to expand...

Yes, that suggests use of DeepPRIME XD without turning down the Noise model.

Click to expand...

But there's another problem. DeepPrime XD looks like it has tried to sharpen these background faces that are obviously out of focus due to the photo being taken at 600mm equivalent zoom. Whereas Topaz AI has rendered them correctly.

Click to expand...

Yes, agreed. I wonder if different settings in PL6 might have produced a better result (eg, using DeepPRIME, not XD)?

Click to expand...

Quite possibly. Perhaps Tom could make the raw file available?

Click to expand...

I have no way of making the RAW file available but when I have a chance I will post a few samples with different settings.

That's a pity. Would have liked to give it the once over with Adobe Denoise in Lightroom.

A basic Dropbox account costs nothing and you get 2gb of cloud storage.

DXO PL6 vs Topaz AI

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