PLShutterbug
Veteran Member
This Nikon Canada video says the Z9 is 10x the speed of the dual-ExPEED 6 Z7ii. So now I doubt the Nikon tech rep even more.
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sirhawkeye64
Forum Pro
I wonder how people are coming up with these figures? I don't doubt the Expeed 7 is "significantly" faster than the single and dual Expeed 6's but I'm also thinking it may not be as much as people are claiming (like 10x). 5x might be more realistic (and the most common figure I've heard so far).
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter that much as long as the camera can (for the most part) perform on par with its rivals, and I think on the whole, it does (both the Z8 and Z9), and there are obviously some areas it may fall a bit short, and other areas it excels over its rivals, and that's really I think what matters. Not really the processing speed of the various genreations of processors. Because in reality that has little meaning in practice probably especially if the differences are not that perceivable by the end-user. And while we could say that they are in this case, it may be hard to quantify from a user experience.
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Snapshotx7
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The 10x figure is from Nikon. "10 times faster than the Z7II".
It's on the Z9 product page and numerous interviews with Nikon reps including Mark Cruz.
"A groundbreaking new processing engine.
EXPEED 7. The most powerful Nikon processing engine ever. 10x faster than previous generations. Handles complex AF and AE calculations at 120 cycles per second. Separately processes dual-streamed data from the stacked image sensor. Enables next-generation features like 120 fps still shooting, 8K video recording, a blackout-free viewing experience and more."
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-cameras/z-9.html
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Why? I'm sure people were saying similar things about the D750, and then came the D810, and then the D850. There's always going to be market fulfillment, and most of us are suckers for the newest, latest greatest iteration of whatever it is Nikon thinks will appeal to us.
And what became of all the D500 users now that Nikon has discontinued it? Did they go over to Sony or Canon or Fuji? I wonder.
Okay, maybe Nikon will carry on with the shutter and some variation of the Z6 and Z7, for awhile, for whatever reason, but eventually there will be no shutter because Nikon has solved the problems with the electronic shutter's shortcomings.
Man, this topic has sure stirred up some emotions!
PLShutterbug
Veteran Member
Interesting. "10x faster than Z7ii" and "10x faster than previous generations" are two completely different statements, since the Z7ii used dual ExPEED 6 processors and one of the reasons Nikon said they did that was to significantly increase speed. "10x faster than dual-ExPEED 6" implies that the ExPEED 7 is actually more than 10x faster than a single ExPEED 6.
I think I'll believe the Z9 blurb over the Nikon Canada video, since the blurb is an official Nikon statement published on their site where the Nikon Canada video is a Nikon rep saying something.
Anyway ... when I played with the Z8 the other day I was very impressed by the speed. That's what's most important, at least to me.
Roxburgh22
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This D500 user is still using it because there is nothing wrong with the camera. Mine is 5 years old and my expectation is to get a couple more years of use from it.
PLShutterbug
Veteran Member
I imagine that to many hobbyists, the real-dollars (i.e.: sale prices) $1,000+ difference between the Z7ii and the Z8 puts the Z8 out of consideration.
People will continue to want a higher-resolution, lower-priced body from Nikon. That's the Z7 series. It will continue to have a mechanical shutter until the price of sensors capable of 1/250s or faster readout drops to the price of slower sensors + mechanical shutter. Right now that doesn't appear to be the case. Yes, eventually it will get there but we may be 10 years from that time.
The Z6 series is not going away, because people want the capabilities of that camera vs. the Z5 and those same people also don't want the resolution of the Z7 series.
My opinion is that both bodies will continue into the indefinite future. There will probably be modest resolution increases for the Z6 (33MP is what most people have said) but that model won't ever incorporate the 45.7MP Z7 sensor because that model's buyers have been very clear that they don't want or need that much resolution. The Z7 will continue to push the envelope of sensor resolution, and will trade off speed to get it.
Also remember that Nikon's naming structure now seems to be:
- Single digits: FX cameras
- Double digits: DX cameras
Perhaps they go to a three-digit number for a new series of FX camera, but other manufacturers have proven that buyers accept Roman numerals as new-model distinctions so I think Nikon will probably stick with it for the foreseeable future.
No mechanical shutter doesn't have anything to do with model designation. It's legal for Nikon to introduce a Z7iv with an all-electronic shutter.
That, I will agree with.
For sure. I kept my D500 for over 50K clicks, then bought the FX version, the D850. I had to let the D850 go when I bought a D6, but I still miss it and if I could afford it I'd have one and keep it forever.
There's a good likelihood I'll eventually get a Z8 to back up or serve in tandem with my Z9. However, even after 15 months with the Z9, I'm still frustrated with a key AF pet peeve versus my D850 (and previous DSLRs), which is probably only an issue for small bird shooters like myself. I've shared before that the last couple years I've been shooting mainly small birds with long teles. Birds will show up at varying distances in trees and brush and often don't stay in one place for more than a few seconds. Thus, to avoid missing shots, one needs to get the bird quickly in the viewfinder and acquire focus. With my D850, I can aim at the bird, and if I can make out a blurry blob through the viewfinder, 9 times out of ten the D850 will be able to focus on it. It doesn't matter whether it's closer or farther than the last bird I focused on. It's basically point and shoot, relying heavily on my hand-eye coordination to find the bird and the AF speed to acquire it. And if I'm using single point focus and inadvertently move the sensor off the bird and lose focus, I can easily place it back on the bird and have AF reacquire it.
Not with the Z9. With the Z9, despite several firmware updates, it's virtually always a two step focus process if the current bird is closer than the previous one. In order to refocus on a closer bird, it's a two-step process requiring prompting the camera to a focus distance either closer, or at about the same distance as the subject. This can be done by manually refocusing, aiming the camera at a frame-filling subject near the bird (like the ground, mass of leaves or tree trunk), or recalling a close focus position using a button on the lens barrel (certain F and Z mounts lenses) or on the camera body (only with certain newer Z lenses). Once refocused closer, the camera can typically find the subject at it searches outward. But unlike with the DSLR, if AF is lost and it locks on the background, there's no simply re-aiming at the subject and expecting the AF to find it again. It requires the two-step refocus as described above. I'll add that I've tried using the wide-area modes without subject detection, and while I see some improvement on refocusing to close subjects, it's still a far cry from the D850, and doesn't meet my needs when it comes to birds.
Being able to program a button on the Z9 to recall a focus position from memory reset on the lens (when using a lens like the 800 PF) is very helpful and is what still has me considering purchasing a Z8. By contrast, having to rely on fumbling for a memory button on the lens barrel of my F mount lenses on the Z9 requires holding the lens in a more uncomfortable position and is awkward when speed is of the essence.
My hope is that the next iteration of the Z9 will be able to address this through perhaps incorporating cross type AF points or other advancements on the sensor. I'd love to be able to continue to use my very capable F mount lenses on the Z9 (and Z8) without the need for two-step focusing. Olympus OM-D sensors are all cross type points, though they're working with much smaller sensors. Short of a future physical alteration to the sensor, firmware updates to address this on the Z9 and Z8 will continue to be welcomed.
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Alan Clark
https://arclark.smugmug.com/
Not with the Z9. With the Z9, despite several firmware updates, it's virtually always a two step focus process if the current bird is closer than the previous one. In order to refocus on a closer bird, it's a two-step process requiring prompting the camera to a focus distance either closer, or at about the same distance as the subject. This can be done by manually refocusing, aiming the camera at a frame-filling subject near the bird (like the ground, mass of leaves or tree trunk), or recalling a close focus position using a button on the lens barrel (certain F and Z mounts lenses) or on the camera body (only with certain newer Z lenses). Once refocused closer, the camera can typically find the subject at it searches outward. But unlike with the DSLR, if AF is lost and it locks on the background, there's no simply re-aiming at the subject and expecting the AF to find it again. It requires the two-step refocus as described above. I'll add that I've tried using the wide-area modes without subject detection, and while I see some improvement on refocusing to close subjects, it's still a far cry from the D850, and doesn't meet my needs when it comes to birds.
Being able to program a button on the Z9 to recall a focus position from memory reset on the lens (when using a lens like the 800 PF) is very helpful and is what still has me considering purchasing a Z8. By contrast, having to rely on fumbling for a memory button on the lens barrel of my F mount lenses on the Z9 requires holding the lens in a more uncomfortable position and is awkward when speed is of the essence.
My hope is that the next iteration of the Z9 will be able to address this through perhaps incorporating cross type AF points or other advancements on the sensor. I'd love to be able to continue to use my very capable F mount lenses on the Z9 (and Z8) without the need for two-step focusing. Olympus OM-D sensors are all cross type points, though they're working with much smaller sensors. Short of a future physical alteration to the sensor, firmware updates to address this on the Z9 and Z8 will continue to be welcomed.
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Alan Clark
https://arclark.smugmug.com/
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Hey, Alan. I also shoot small birds and have found the same frustration with the Z9; by the time I get the focus in range the bird has flown. Once it gets the focus it does hold it pretty well. Otherwise I'm loving the Z9, but still have the D6, that like the D850 doesn't have that problem with the 500mm PF.
Glad to see you're still about, and so is DPReview!
sirhawkeye64
Forum Pro
Yes, especially if the new model doesn't address the issues you had with the previous genreation. For example, for me, the tracking on the Z II's (and gen 1's) were a bit disappointing, but it seems that it has been drastically improved on the Z8 and Z9 (same routines and hardware basically), and while I could wait for a Z8 Mark II with an Expeed 8 or Expeed 9, it may not matter in the end). Although telling yourself you'll wait is a good tactic to talk yourself out of buying something you probably don't need. I've done that (but did get bit a few times when I postponed a purchase, only to realize I really need to have it for a trip, and have to then rent or i end up renting so much that I should just buy it).
Hi Alan. Nice to see your post. Glad I’m not alone in this AF matter. Doesn’t seem to be much of a concern for most. However, like you, I’m really enjoying the camera overall. And I guess we’ll continue enjoying DPR till they actually pull the plug.
rscott900ss
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Recently purchased a Z 7II and D500; can't justify spending the money on a Z 8 (I'm a hobbyist).
sirhawkeye64
Forum Pro
If you have the D500 you're not really missing out on much. Personally, I feel the Z8 is really for those who are coming from another Z camera (not a Z9 necessarily) that don't have (anymore) F-mount gear (they sold it off) so they are fully invested in the Z system.
NeedMorePractice
Senior Member
Sorry to hear this. I have the same issue with my Z6 and 400 4.5 but was hoping the Z8 would solve it. As I only photograph birds as a hobby here and there, it's not a big deal, but I'm surprised to hear the Z9 is having the same issue. The focus rings on these Z lenses are TOUCHY, as well, so it's challenging to get a feel for just how much you have to twist to achieve focus roughly at the distance of the bird. And those little ones move so quickly and frequently...
Perhaps a future update will help, but I never count on that.
norcaldakar
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Own and use the z9 and D600. Purchasing a z8 as a gift.
Stan Disbrow
Veteran Member
Hi,
Maybe folks are calling the 60 MP sensor equipped rumor camera they were calling the Z8, the Z7-3.
That's what I need. Something that leaves at least 45 MP *after* I crop the ends off a 3:2 image to make it a 5:4 one.
Otherwise, I shall stick with a 50 MP medium format which requires less cropping from 4:3 to get to 5:4....
Doesn't have to be a stacked sensor. Would be nice if it were BSI, but doesn't have to be that either. Just a higher res than the Z7 as it was in the Mk-I and is in the Mk-II which I opted to not buy in favor of the medium format digital.
Of course, I don't care what the model number would be.
But the Z8 will not suffice. If it did l would opt for the Z9 and have had one prior to the Z8 announcement.
Stan
Maybe folks are calling the 60 MP sensor equipped rumor camera they were calling the Z8, the Z7-3.
That's what I need. Something that leaves at least 45 MP *after* I crop the ends off a 3:2 image to make it a 5:4 one.
Otherwise, I shall stick with a 50 MP medium format which requires less cropping from 4:3 to get to 5:4....
Doesn't have to be a stacked sensor. Would be nice if it were BSI, but doesn't have to be that either. Just a higher res than the Z7 as it was in the Mk-I and is in the Mk-II which I opted to not buy in favor of the medium format digital.
Of course, I don't care what the model number would be.
But the Z8 will not suffice. If it did l would opt for the Z9 and have had one prior to the Z8 announcement.
Stan
Stan Disbrow
Veteran Member
Hi,
In this Small Format world, I'm sticking with my Df. I'm using a 50 MP DSLR in the Medium Format world. I use that on a tripod in mirror up mode, so it is essentially mirrorless. But I need to crop the shot to a 5:4 aspect ratio for my printing.
So, I'd need a Nikon Z which leaves me with at least 45 MP after the required heavier crop. That's not the Z8. Oh, one of the Z8 rumors was for a 60 MP sensor. That's the Z I need. Maybe later.
The key there being it could replace both the cameras I'm currently using. But I'm getting by just fine. Even the measley 16 MP from the Df is far superior to what I got from any film in my FA.
Stan
In this Small Format world, I'm sticking with my Df. I'm using a 50 MP DSLR in the Medium Format world. I use that on a tripod in mirror up mode, so it is essentially mirrorless. But I need to crop the shot to a 5:4 aspect ratio for my printing.
So, I'd need a Nikon Z which leaves me with at least 45 MP after the required heavier crop. That's not the Z8. Oh, one of the Z8 rumors was for a 60 MP sensor. That's the Z I need. Maybe later.
The key there being it could replace both the cameras I'm currently using. But I'm getting by just fine. Even the measley 16 MP from the Df is far superior to what I got from any film in my FA.
Stan
There's a lot to be said for the quality of the Df 16 MP image—like the D3s 12 MP the images can seem almost magical; I've owned both. And you are so right about the superiority of digital to film— I was thinking about it the other day, that of the thousands of high quality scans I've made of various film formats from 35 mm to 4x5, that even some of my earliest digital 8 MP pics are as good or better than most of the film pics. But of course, the advantages of digital are so broad that I would never consider shooting film again and it's hard to understand, why the revival of film. It's good in one respect, shows the young whipper snappers the basics of photography and an appreciation of what it took to make a photograph back in the "old" days. After that, they will truly appreciate digital, as I do.Hi,
In this Small Format world, I'm sticking with my Df. I'm using a 50 MP DSLR in the Medium Format world. I use that on a tripod in mirror up mode, so it is essentially mirrorless. But I need to crop the shot to a 5:4 aspect ratio for my printing.
So, I'd need a Nikon Z which leaves me with at least 45 MP after the required heavier crop. That's not the Z8. Oh, one of the Z8 rumors was for a 60 MP sensor. That's the Z I need. Maybe later.
The key there being it could replace both the cameras I'm currently using. But I'm getting by just fine. Even the measley 16 MP from the Df is far superior to what I got from any film in my FA.
Stan
Seems to me it would be hard to replace the two formats you're using now.
Which medium format camera are you using?
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