Reading mode: Light Dark

Low Lights + AI Servo, how?

Go to last post
Kevin Vian said:
99V6Coupe said:
Thanks once again. After reading the posts by you and David, the
difference I see between CF4-1 and CF4-3 is just that David
mentioned when I want to shoot, quickly release the * button,
recompose and shoot. Is that the only difference?

John
Click to expand...
You can use that same approach with CF4-3 if you like. I think this
takes really good time a practice though, specially if you subject
is moving quickly.

The main difference between CF4-1 and CF4-3, is the when the
exposure is locked.

With CF4-1, when you half press the release, the camera meters the
exposure. If you have press the release, and then focus track your
subject to a different location relative to where to half pressed,
you have set the exposure for where you first half pressed. Your
other option is to focus track your subject, and then go to a full
press to meter (at half press) and capture the shot (at full
press), all in one motion. I found that doing this, I had a higher
number of shots that were blurred due to camera shake.

With CF4-3, when you half press the release, nothing happens. The
camera meters only when you fully press the release. The advantage
to this is that you can focus track your subject, and no matter
what location your subject is in, the instance you fully press the
release, the camera quickly meters and caputers the shot, ensuring
a properly exposed shot relative to the location of the subject.

I have found that if I half press the release when using CF4-1 and
then track the subject some, exposures were sometimes off because I
metered at a different location (where I started focus tracking the
subject). To remedy this, I tried just fully pressing the release
all at once to get proper exposure where I captured the image.
However, I found that going from no press of the release to full
press of the release, I tend to shake the camera just enough to
sometimes blur the image because of camera shake.

I thought there must be a better way, and found CF4-3. To remedy
the problem of camera shake resulting from a single press (no press
to full press) of the release, I could half press the release
without metering in the wrong location. The further half press (as
opposed to one big full press) requires much less movement from my
finger, therefore, I didn't shake the camera and cause any blurring
in the image. To remedy the problem with metering in wrong
location, with CF4-3, the camera only meters the instant I take the
shot (with a full press) - a fool proof method for metering in the
correct location while focus tracking.

So, with CF4-3, I found that I could meter in the exact location I
wanted to capture the image, and at the same time, use an initial
half press with my finger already down on the release button
(without metering), and then use only a further half press to
capture the shot, which greatly reduced my camera shake.

--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
Click to expand...
 
Kevin Vian said:
Better than CF4-1, use CF4-3 when using AI SERVO. You still use the
  • button to operate focus, but you can have the shutter release
half-pressed the entire time you are focus tracking, and then when
you want to shot, press the release fully. This method will help to
reduce the likeliness of blur due to camera shake because you are
already half pressed, and while require less force and movement to
fully press.

As far as exposure goes, the exposure is set when the release is
fully pressed, as oposed to half pressed, so you get the right
exposure with minimal possibility of camera shake induced blur.
Click to expand...
Besides using an extra button (the ) to operate the Servo, how is this different from the default? I assume it is different, and that there is some advantage, or it wouldn't be offered.

Under either scenario you have the shutter half-pressed, waiting to fire (I agree this reduces shake). But what is the advantage of having an extra step to do (thumb on the * button)?

I had assumed (without trying) that with CF04-3, pressing the * button once started the Servo and that it didn't need to be kept pressed; and that another press stopped Servo. That's what the language on p. 147 says to me, but you say in another post that this is misleading.

My short question is: if you have the shutter half-pressed anyway, why bother setting the CF so you also have to hold the * button?

I don't mean to be dense here. I'm waiting for the "D'oh" moment when it all comes clear.
 
brooke said:
brooke said:
Better than CF4-1, use CF4-3 when using AI SERVO. You still use the
  • button to operate focus, but you can have the shutter release
half-pressed the entire time you are focus tracking, and then when
you want to shot, press the release fully. This method will help to
reduce the likeliness of blur due to camera shake because you are
already half pressed, and while require less force and movement to
fully press.

As far as exposure goes, the exposure is set when the release is
fully pressed, as oposed to half pressed, so you get the right
exposure with minimal possibility of camera shake induced blur.
Click to expand...
Besides using an extra button (the ) to operate the Servo, how is
this different from the default? I assume it is different, and
that there is some advantage, or it wouldn't be offered.
Under either scenario you have the shutter half-pressed, waiting to
fire (I agree this reduces shake). But what is the advantage of
having an extra* step to do (thumb on the * button)?
I had assumed (without trying) that with CF04-3, pressing the *
button once started the Servo and that it didn't need to be kept
pressed; and that another press stopped Servo. That's what the
language on p. 147 says to me, but you say in another post that
this is misleading.
My short question is: if you have the shutter half-pressed anyway,
why bother setting the CF so you also have to hold the * button?
I don't mean to be dense here. I'm waiting for the "D'oh" moment
when it all comes clear.
Click to expand...
This is all a good question, one that I have failed to answer myself. I do know that with CF4-3, the camera meters on full press and not half press, but the * button operates the same.

When the firmware 2.0.0 update came out, Canon stated that there was a fix for CF4. I haven't updated my body to 2.0.0, because no one could figure out what exactly this firmware update changed. Maybe this is it.

Maybe the * button with CF4-3 is supposed to operate how it is written in the manual, in that you press it once to start AI Servo, and then press it again to stop AI Servo. I suppose this would be good. Without 2.0.0, you press and hold the * button to operate AF, as it is with CF4-1.

Otherwise, all I know is that CF4-3 works directly (and only) with AI Servo, in that the camera meters on full press instead of a half press. I think if you use an AF mode other than AI Servo, CF4-3 operates the same as CF4-1, but I don't know for sure, it's just a guess.

On a side note:

If anyone can tell me if firmware 2.0.0 changes the operation of the * button in CF4-3, I would love to hear about it.

--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
 
99V6Coupe said:
Kevin Vian said:
99V6Coupe said:
Thanks once again. After reading the posts by you and David, the
difference I see between CF4-1 and CF4-3 is just that David
mentioned when I want to shoot, quickly release the * button,
recompose and shoot. Is that the only difference?

John
Click to expand...
You can use that same approach with CF4-3 if you like. I think this
takes really good time a practice though, specially if you subject
is moving quickly.

The main difference between CF4-1 and CF4-3, is the when the
exposure is locked.

With CF4-1, when you half press the release, the camera meters the
exposure. If you have press the release, and then focus track your
subject to a different location relative to where to half pressed,
you have set the exposure for where you first half pressed. Your
other option is to focus track your subject, and then go to a full
press to meter (at half press) and capture the shot (at full
press), all in one motion. I found that doing this, I had a higher
number of shots that were blurred due to camera shake.

With CF4-3, when you half press the release, nothing happens. The
camera meters only when you fully press the release. The advantage
to this is that you can focus track your subject, and no matter
what location your subject is in, the instance you fully press the
release, the camera quickly meters and caputers the shot, ensuring
a properly exposed shot relative to the location of the subject.

I have found that if I half press the release when using CF4-1 and
then track the subject some, exposures were sometimes off because I
metered at a different location (where I started focus tracking the
subject). To remedy this, I tried just fully pressing the release
all at once to get proper exposure where I captured the image.
However, I found that going from no press of the release to full
press of the release, I tend to shake the camera just enough to
sometimes blur the image because of camera shake.

I thought there must be a better way, and found CF4-3. To remedy
the problem of camera shake resulting from a single press (no press
to full press) of the release, I could half press the release
without metering in the wrong location. The further half press (as
opposed to one big full press) requires much less movement from my
finger, therefore, I didn't shake the camera and cause any blurring
in the image. To remedy the problem with metering in wrong
location, with CF4-3, the camera only meters the instant I take the
shot (with a full press) - a fool proof method for metering in the
correct location while focus tracking.

So, with CF4-3, I found that I could meter in the exact location I
wanted to capture the image, and at the same time, use an initial
half press with my finger already down on the release button
(without metering), and then use only a further half press to
capture the shot, which greatly reduced my camera shake.

--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
 
I am confused here, isn't this exactly what AI servo AF does with CF4-0, the standard setting.

You already have the release button half pressed because you are focus tracking, you therefore only need to further half press to take the shot, so no camera shake. Also the exposure settings are set immediately before the image is captured so they are correct as well.

I cannot see in this situation why using 2 buttons is better than 1 ?

Maybe you can clarify for me

thanks

Adam
Kevin Vian said:
So, with CF4-3, I found that I could meter in the exact location I
wanted to capture the image, and at the same time, use an initial
half press with my finger already down on the release button
(without metering), and then use only a further half press to
capture the shot, which greatly reduced my camera shake.

--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
Click to expand...
 
I asked the same thing about 12 posts up. Kevin's answer may contain the key.

Earlier in the thread, he pointed out that the manual's description of CF04-3 seemed wrong, that it says the * button "turns Servo on/off" when in fact it requires it to be held on with v1.0.x of the firmware. v2.0.0 supposedly had a fix for CF04 in it, and this might be it. I have v2.0.0, but haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

Still, under any circumstances if you are going to hold the shutter half-pressed anyway (as I like to) there should be no advantage to changing CF04 from the default.
AdamC said:
I am confused here, isn't this exactly what AI servo AF does with
CF4-0, the standard setting.

You already have the release button half pressed because you are
focus tracking, you therefore only need to further half press to
take the shot, so no camera shake. Also the exposure settings are
set immediately before the image is captured so they are correct as
well.

I cannot see in this situation why using 2 buttons is better than 1 ?

Maybe you can clarify for me
Click to expand...
 
Kevin Vian said:
On a side note:
If anyone can tell me if firmware 2.0.0 changes the operation of
the * button in CF4-3, I would love to hear about it.
Click to expand...
Kevin,

Just tested it. It does not. You have to hold down the * button to keep AI-Servo working.

Olga
 
You can use the 55EX flash and set a custom function for it to emit but not fire.

That aids the focus in darker areas.

I've also found that it takes a few times out to get used to servo focus, but once you work it out it does great.

Duke
99V6Coupe said:
99V6Coupe said:
I was invited to a coworker's daughter's birthday party (2 years
old). They rented a little gym and let the kids go wild. They were
running around indoor. I tried AI Servo on my 70-200 IS +
10D...and found the success rate isn't that high. I even used 50mm
f/1.8 as well.

Should I have left the IS function on or off?
With AI Servo + Center Point focus. How should I compose my shot?
What I did was I focused the subject first using center point, then
'moving' with the subject...is this the correct way of doing it
(would it fool the AI SERVO)? Or should I have just center-focused
and let the subject moved anywhere as long as it's in my
view-finder range then snap the shot?

I also wonder what shutter speed is ideal for these kind of 'kids
running around shots'.... (How do sports photog's do it?)

Thanks.

-John
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Duke
 
AdamC said:
I am confused here, isn't this exactly what AI servo AF does with
CF4-0, the standard setting.

You already have the release button half pressed because you are
focus tracking, you therefore only need to further half press to
take the shot, so no camera shake. Also the exposure settings are
set immediately before the image is captured so they are correct as
well.

I cannot see in this situation why using 2 buttons is better than 1 ?

Maybe you can clarify for me

thanks

Adam
Click to expand...
Adam, you are right that exposre is set immediately before the shot is taken with AI Servo regardless of whether CF4 is set to 0 or 3. I guess the difference is in habit then.

I always use CF4-1 when shooting, and I have gotten very used to using the * button for focusing. I like having exposure and focus control separate. Since I am in the habit of using the * button for focusing, I guess it is natural to go to CF4-3 when using AI Servo.

You have got me thinking though. With CF4 set to zero and AI Servo is the focus mode, exposure is set right before the shot is taken, and a half press is only used for focusing. I always have CF4 set to one, which separates metering and focusing, and I generally use AI Focus. Now if I set the focus mode to AI Servo while CF4 is set to 1, I have to wonder if CF4-1 and CF4-3 operate exactly the same.

I am at work now and my camera is at home, but when I get home tonight, I am going to have to check this out. If anyone has their camera with them now, could you please do a test and let us know; thanks.

--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
 
Kevin,

CF4-1 and CF4-3 don't operate the same. CF4-1 locks the AE at * press and CF4-3 doesn't lock the AE until shutter press.
HTH,
VG
Kevin Vian said:
AdamC said:
I am confused here, isn't this exactly what AI servo AF does with
CF4-0, the standard setting.

You already have the release button half pressed because you are
focus tracking, you therefore only need to further half press to
take the shot, so no camera shake. Also the exposure settings are
set immediately before the image is captured so they are correct as
well.

I cannot see in this situation why using 2 buttons is better than 1 ?

Maybe you can clarify for me

thanks

Adam
Click to expand...
Adam, you are right that exposre is set immediately before the shot
is taken with AI Servo regardless of whether CF4 is set to 0 or 3.
I guess the difference is in habit then.

I always use CF4-1 when shooting, and I have gotten very used to
using the * button for focusing. I like having exposure and focus
control separate. Since I am in the habit of using the * button for
focusing, I guess it is natural to go to CF4-3 when using AI Servo.

You have got me thinking though. With CF4 set to zero and AI Servo
is the focus mode, exposure is set right before the shot is taken,
and a half press is only used for focusing. I always have CF4 set
to one, which separates metering and focusing, and I generally use
AI Focus. Now if I set the focus mode to AI Servo while CF4 is set
to 1, I have to wonder if CF4-1 and CF4-3 operate exactly the same.

I am at work now and my camera is at home, but when I get home
tonight, I am going to have to check this out. If anyone has their
camera with them now, could you please do a test and let us know;
thanks.

--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
Click to expand...
 
My manuel says that in CF04-1 "pressing the shutter, button halfway sets the AE lock."

I've been focusing (no pun intended) on the AF issue, but it seems that CF04 gives more options in as to AE lock.

Now I have to go to the beginning of the book ... With CF04 set to the default, have I locked exposure as I hold the shutter halfway, or is it set when the shot is taken? I've always assumed the latter ...
VG said:
Kevin,
CF4-1 and CF4-3 don't operate the same. CF4-1 locks the AE at *
press and CF4-3 doesn't lock the AE until shutter press.
Click to expand...
 
VG said:
Kevin,
CF4-1 and CF4-3 don't operate the same. CF4-1 locks the AE at *
press and CF4-3 doesn't lock the AE until shutter press.
HTH,
VG
Click to expand...
I believe this is incorrect. I use CF4-1 as my default setup, specifically becuase the shutter release operates AE, and the * button operates focus. When CF4 is set to 1 or 3, the * button ONLY deals focus, and the shutter release ONLY deals with AE.

With CF4-1, a half-press of the release meters locks AE (except in AI Servo I think), and the holding down the * button operates AF.

With CF4-3 and AI Servo, a half-press of the release does absolutely nothing, as the camera meters and locks AE with a full press of the release immediately before the shot is taken. Holding down the * button still operates AF.

The big question now is, does the 10D operate the same with CF4-1 when using AI Servo as it does with CF4-3 when using AI Servo?

Right now, I am led to believe that it does, as when using AI Servo with CF4-0, AE is set immediately before the shot is taken (with full press of the release). So why would AE with AI Servo operate any differently with different settings of CF4? If it doesn't operate differently, what is the point of having CF4-1 and CF4-3, other than CF4-3 is said to be for use with AI Servo?

I may have to post this question to Chuck Westfall at FredMiranda.com. I will post a link to my post at FredMiranda.com here.

We will figure this one out!

--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
 
brooke wrote:
[snip]
brooke said:
Now I have to go to the beginning of the book ... With CF04 set to
the default, have I locked exposure as I hold the shutter halfway,
or is it set when the shot is taken? I've always assumed the
latter ...
Click to expand...
With CF4 set to 0 and using AI Servo, the camera meters and locks AE with a full press of the shutter, immediately before the shot is taken.

--
Kevin V

One of the greatest things I have ever learned is to:

RTFM

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
 
brooke,

In CF4-0, pressing the shutter button halfway only operates the focus and exposure isn't set until the button is pressed fully. This is the mode that I use to shoot low light roller and ice hockey. The main problem most people will have is with the method of metering and and the subject's ambient lighting. Each metering method will give varying results on the same subject matter. As an example:
http://www.vizualgroove.com/digitalimaging/3200a.htm

Using center weighted average or evaluative metering here would have underexposed the players due to the nature of the composition. Metering and shot composition should always be taken into effect to achieve an overall balance of settings.
HTH,
VG
brooke said:
VG said:
Kevin,
CF4-1 and CF4-3 don't operate the same. CF4-1 locks the AE at *
press and CF4-3 doesn't lock the AE until shutter press.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Kevin Vian said:
The big question now is, does the 10D operate the same with CF4-1
when using AI Servo as it does with CF4-3 when using AI Servo?
Click to expand...
Yes, it does. The difference between CF4-1 and CF4-3 is in the exposure. CF4-1 sets exposure at the half-button press; CF4-3 sets exposure at full button press.

Olga
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top