Moving from Canon M system

KEG · Mar 4, 2023

JRET said:
JustUs7 said:

If you can swing a gear trade, I’d go for an M6II with an 18-150 kit if there’s any inventory left. Doesn’t get any better in the M system.

Can’t speak to M50 vs M50II other than it would give you a brand new camera and new warranty for a while. No harm in that.

Click to expand...

This is worth serious consideration

Due to me having M6 II and 18-150 I don't have to spend anything on photography for the next few years.

Max5150 · Mar 4, 2023

Laqup said:
If you get the R8 + 24-240 (414g + 750g), you can pretty much replace:

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0
Canon EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM
Canon EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM

with a single lens. Of course with the execption of the tele range beyond 240mm.

In pure terms of "optical output" the zoom will be somewhat similar to the 22 f/2.0 that is actually an 35 f/3.2 in FF terms (only image look, for exposure f/2.0 is f/2.0, to be clear!)

Wide angle can be covered with the Canon RF 15-30mm (390g) or RF 16mm f/2.8 (165g), and the EF-M 32mm is logically replaced by the RF 50mm 1.8 (160g).

R8 + RF 24-240 + RF 16 + RF 50 will net you a total of 1489g.

Of course all of this is a trade-off. The R8 will be much more capable and the better body compared to the R50, but you have to lug around more weight "in hand" in combination with those FF lenses and you gain some volume. On the other side, the zoom gives you additional creative possibilities (as f/4.0 - f/6.3 cleary outperforms f/3.5 -f/6.3 on APS-C in the overlapping range) with the 50mm not being an exception (50mm 1.8 will yield shallower depth of field than 32mm 1.4). Build quality and some of the optical attributes of the 32mm 1.4 might be better though. Overall image quality will probably be slightly better, as the 15-45 and 55-200 are nothing to write home about (allthough performance of the 55-200 is solid for it's size and volume).

From my point of view I would not "rebuy" all of those to a certain degree similar RF-S lenses (yes I know that there are slight differences to EF-M) but I would rather try to seek an actual solid upgrade. If it has to be APS-C due to weight limitations I would not hesitate to buy a fuji body. The APS-C RF bodies are either sold as "complementary" to their bigger brothers (e.g. R7 for wildlife) or meant as some kind of "affordable bait" to lure you into the RF fullframe system (R50, R10) and to have an upgrade path. I see no clear intention from Canon to actually put out a full fledged RF-S system, this will probably be similar to the EF-M system, aka 1-2 new lenses per year and a few body upgrades in between.

This certainly seems like the way Canon operates. Sony doesn't seem to be doing anything with their apsc lineup either, wich is inferior to Canon in a number of ways and sorely need redesign.

The goal here is basically weight/bulk reduction. I've looked at Fuji a number of times and did not feel switching to Fuji accomplished that goal. Fuji has other issues too, like supply chain problems and a focus system that continues to fall behind the leaders. The lenses, some of which are very good, are bulkier than Canon and Tamron apsc. I decided rather than switching to Fuji, I'd rather just carry my R5 as there are sufficient lightweight RF lenses to choose from. In the end, for hiking and when travelling I'm sticking with the M6 mkii and Olympus kits for now.

Traveling to Europe this summer I'll be quite content these days with a three lens kit on my M6ii, the 11-whatever wide andle zoom, a fast prime, and the 18-150 zoom. If I can't get good pictures with that, then I stink at photography.

Fjzk · Mar 4, 2023

KEG said:
JRET said:

JustUs7 said:

If you can swing a gear trade, I’d go for an M6II with an 18-150 kit if there’s any inventory left. Doesn’t get any better in the M system.

Can’t speak to M50 vs M50II other than it would give you a brand new camera and new warranty for a while. No harm in that.

Click to expand...

This is worth serious consideration

Click to expand...

Due to me having M6 II and 18-150 I don't have to spend anything on photography for the next few years.

KEG · Mar 4, 2023

Fjzk said:
KEG said:

JRET said:

JustUs7 said:

If you can swing a gear trade, I’d go for an M6II with an 18-150 kit if there’s any inventory left. Doesn’t get any better in the M system.

Can’t speak to M50 vs M50II other than it would give you a brand new camera and new warranty for a while. No harm in that.

Click to expand...

This is worth serious consideration

Click to expand...

Due to me having M6 II and 18-150 I don't have to spend anything on photography for the next few years.

Click to expand...

+1, that was my rationale when I picked up a refurb M6II last November. For what I shoot my kit is more than plenty.

One primary benefit of owning R is the ability to show how superior the M system is.

davel33 · Mar 4, 2023

Keg I think you made a typo and what you really meant was

"One primary benefit of owning M is the ability to show how superior the R system is.

Max5150 · Mar 4, 2023

navinadvani said:
From what I can see, the M6 MkII is not available easily. Knowing that the M system will not see any more progress caused me to think about shifting from the M system.

Canon (from what little I know) is more focused on the RF (FF) line than the RF-S line, with good reason. They might feel that the smaller sensor cameras would be the first to get cannibalised as newer mobile phones enter the market; after all, the Canon R8 is "just" 100gms heavier than their R50. Not everyone is as concerned with system weight as I am.

This is why I considered moving to Fuji, as they might be more committed to APS-C (think lighter and smaller). Too bad they do not have a lightweight wide-angle zoom (10-24). This is my primary shooting range. My 11-22 spends so much time on my M50 that I sometimes wonder why I carry the 18-45 (a less-than-ordinary lens, anyway). I can easily "make do" with the 11-22, 22/2, 35/1.4 and 55-250. I wish Canon had introduced an EFM version of their 50/1.4.

Have you considered the highly regarded Sigma 56/1.4?

navinadvani said:
Since this is the Canon R forum, what if I hypothetically wrapped my head around a heavier system? The options would be to get an R8 with RF glass or an R8 with an EF adapter and use my EF (24-105/4 IS, 70-300/4.5-5.6 IS, 28/1.8, 50/1.4 and 100/2) glass. Would EF glass limit the R8 system? One far-fetched option is to trade in my EF-S system, get an R8 with the RF 15-30/4.5-6.3 and use an EF adapter for everything else.

For convenience, I have listed the EF and EF-S glass I have below:

EF 28mm f/1.8, EF 50mm f/1.4, EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS, EF 24-105mm f/4 IS,
and Canon EF 100mm f/2

Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon EF-S 18-55 f/4-5.6 IS STM, Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS, and 2 x Canon EF-S 55-250 f/4.5-5.6 IS II.

KEG · Mar 4, 2023

davel33 said:
Keg I think you made a typo and what you really meant was

"One primary benefit of owning M is the ability to show how superior the R system is.

In decade or so when R will have nice lens collection at fair price point then it will be a typo, until then :-D

Max5150 · Mar 4, 2023

Now you guys have me thinking. I wonder if I could be perfectly happy on my vaca this summer with a 3 lenses system, the R8, RF 35, RF 14-35, and the RF 100-400. Not sure what that weighs, but I bet it would work just fine.

That would be a tough call against the very compact setup I took last time I went to Europe which was the EM1.3, Oly 17.5, PL 8-18, and Oly 12-100/4, which treated me just fine.

MAC · Mar 4, 2023

KEG said:
davel33 said:

Keg I think you made a typo and what you really meant was

"One primary benefit of owning M is the ability to show how superior the R system is.

Click to expand...

In decade or so when R will have nice lens collection at fair price point then it will be a typo, until then :-D

...roll forward and folks, it is now 2033...

hey there KEG, still no RF-s F1.4 lenses to be found...

bookmark this prediction, you can bank on it

KEG · Mar 4, 2023

MAC said:
KEG said:

davel33 said:

Keg I think you made a typo and what you really meant was

"One primary benefit of owning M is the ability to show how superior the R system is.

Click to expand...

In decade or so when R will have nice lens collection at fair price point then it will be a typo, until then :-D

Click to expand...

...roll forward and folks, it is now 2033...

hey there KEG, still no RF-s F1.4 lenses to be found...

In 2033 I am hoping that there will be a 24-105 f/2.8L (or faster) IS.

MAC said:
bookmark this prediction, you can bank on it

davel33 · Mar 4, 2023

KEG said:
MAC said:

KEG said:

davel33 said:

Keg I think you made a typo and what you really meant was

"One primary benefit of owning M is the ability to show how superior the R system is.

Click to expand...

In decade or so when R will have nice lens collection at fair price point then it will be a typo, until then :-D

Click to expand...

...roll forward and folks, it is now 2033...

hey there KEG, still no RF-s F1.4 lenses to be found...

Click to expand...

In 2033 I am hoping that there will be a 24-105 f/2.8L (or faster) IS.

KEG said:

bookmark this prediction, you can bank on it

Click to expand...

YEA well I am hoping for a RED Rider BB gun so there

davel33 · Mar 5, 2023

Max5150 said:
Now you guys have me thinking. I wonder if I could be perfectly happy on my vaca this summer with a 3 lenses system, the R8, RF 35, RF 14-35, and the RF 100-400. Not sure what that weighs, but I bet it would work just fine.

That would be a tough call against the very compact setup I took last time I went to Europe which was the EM1.3, Oly 17.5, PL 8-18, and Oly 12-100/4, which treated me just fine.

From my view that would a great travel setup

The only problem you may is a large hole between 35 and 100, I would drop the rf35 prime and use a RF 24-105 stm, it bats way over what you would think and its dirt cheap and very lite but its not an L. I have one and its on my R most of the time. When I go out for more than a day I take the RF14-35, RF24-105 and RF100-400 with the R. If I may be shooting a lot moving objects I will use the R6 over the R. The RF 14-35 is an AWESOME lens, I love it

When its just an hr or so its the RF 24-105 stm.

Max5150 · Mar 5, 2023

davel33 said:
Max5150 said:

Now you guys have me thinking. I wonder if I could be perfectly happy on my vaca this summer with a 3 lenses system, the R8, RF 35, RF 14-35, and the RF 100-400. Not sure what that weighs, but I bet it would work just fine.

That would be a tough call against the very compact setup I took last time I went to Europe which was the EM1.3, Oly 17.5, PL 8-18, and Oly 12-100/4, which treated me just fine.

Click to expand...

From my view that would a great travel setup The only problem you may is a large hole between 35 and 100, I would drop the rf35 prime and use a RF 24-105 stm, it bats way over what you would think and its dirt cheap and very lite but its not an L. I have one and its on my R most of the time. When I go out for more than a day I take the RF14-35, RF24-105 and RF100-400 with the R. If I may be shooting a lot moving objects I will use the R6 over the R. The RF 14-35 is an AWESOME lens, I love it When its just an hr or so its the RF 24-105 stm.

What about evening, night time, or indoors like a cathedral, etc? A fast prime of your choice, 28, 35, 50 could be important.

navinadvani · Mar 8, 2023

Max5150 said:
davel33 said:

Max5150 said:

Now you guys have me thinking. I wonder if I could be perfectly happy on my vaca this summer with a 3 lenses system, the R8, RF 35, RF 14-35, and the RF 100-400. Not sure what that weighs, but I bet it would work just fine.

That would be a tough call against the very compact setup I took last time I went to Europe which was the EM1.3, Oly 17.5, PL 8-18, and Oly 12-100/4, which treated me just fine.

Click to expand...

From my view that would a great travel setup The only problem you may is a large hole between 35 and 100, I would drop the rf35 prime and use a RF 24-105 stm, it bats way over what you would think and its dirt cheap and very lite but its not an L. I have one and its on my R most of the time. When I go out for more than a day I take the RF14-35, RF24-105 and RF100-400 with the R. If I may be shooting a lot moving objects I will use the R6 over the R. The RF 14-35 is an AWESOME lens, I love it When its just an hr or so its the RF 24-105 stm.

Click to expand...

What about evening, night time, or indoors like a cathedral, etc? A fast prime of your choice, 28, 35, 50 could be important.

I travel a bit which is why a light kit makes sense. My lenses aren't the fastest but with the ability to push ISO up to 3200 getting shots of a cathedral at night is possible especially when so many of them have some lighting.

What about this combination? It's about 1.8kg.

Canon RF 15-30mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM (400 gms)
Canon RF 100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM (600 gms)
Canon R8 (500 gms)
Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS (300 gms)

I only wish Canon had some lightweight 85mm glass. All I could find is the Canon RF 50mm F1.8 IS (160 gms) which is too wide on FF for portraits.

MAC · Mar 8, 2023

navinadvani said:
Max5150 said:

davel33 said:

Max5150 said:

Now you guys have me thinking. I wonder if I could be perfectly happy on my vaca this summer with a 3 lenses system, the R8, RF 35, RF 14-35, and the RF 100-400. Not sure what that weighs, but I bet it would work just fine.

That would be a tough call against the very compact setup I took last time I went to Europe which was the EM1.3, Oly 17.5, PL 8-18, and Oly 12-100/4, which treated me just fine.

Click to expand...

From my view that would a great travel setup The only problem you may is a large hole between 35 and 100, I would drop the rf35 prime and use a RF 24-105 stm, it bats way over what you would think and its dirt cheap and very lite but its not an L. I have one and its on my R most of the time. When I go out for more than a day I take the RF14-35, RF24-105 and RF100-400 with the R. If I may be shooting a lot moving objects I will use the R6 over the R. The RF 14-35 is an AWESOME lens, I love it When its just an hr or so its the RF 24-105 stm.

Click to expand...

What about evening, night time, or indoors like a cathedral, etc? A fast prime of your choice, 28, 35, 50 could be important.

Click to expand...

I travel a bit which is why a light kit makes sense. My lenses aren't the fastest but with the ability to push ISO up to 3200 getting shots of a cathedral at night is possible especially when so many of them have some lighting.

What about this combination? It's about 1.8kg.

Canon RF 15-30mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM (400 gms)
Canon RF 100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM (600 gms)
Canon R8 (500 gms)
Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS (300 gms)

I only wish Canon had some lightweight 85mm glass. All I could find is the Canon RF 50mm F1.8 IS (160 gms) which is too wide on FF for portraits.

RF 85 F2 IS

497 g

Canon RF 85mm F2 Macro IS STM Lens Review (the-digital-picture.com)

navinadvani · Mar 9, 2023

To conclude:

Option 1:
Stick to EFM and sell all my EF and EF-S equipment for cash. I have only ever bought B&H Photo (during my trips to NY). I have never sold anything ever - in the past, I gave my 40D and 60D away (with a kit lens) to my friend's kids to get them started. So I am contemplating taking everything in a camera bag and dropping it off with them. How would I know what a fair market value is?

Option 2 move to Canon RF-S. What are the advantages the RF-S system has over the EF-M? Would Canon be supporting the smaller sensor cameras long term? I would have to sell all my EFM equipment and the following EF-S (EF) equipment:
Canon 77D body
Canon 100D body
Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS
2 x Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
2 x Canon EF-S 55-250 IS f/4.5-5.6

And retain the following for use with RF-S:
Canon EF 50mm F1.4 290gms
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM 385gms

Then either get the R50 or R10:
Canon R50 system 1725 gms (total investment $1410 less trade-in)
Canon EF-RF adapter 110 gms ($99)
Canon EOS R50 375 gms + 2 lens kit ($1030)
Canon RF-S 18-45mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM 130gms (kit)
Canon RF-S 55-210mm F5.0-7.1 IS STM 270gms (kit)
Canon RF 16mm f/2.8 STM 165gms ($280)
Or get the R10:
Canon R10 system 1776 gms (total investment $1760 less trade-in)
Canon EF-RF adapter 110 gms ($99)
Canon EOS R10 426 gms + 18-45 lens kit ($1000)
Canon RF-S 18-45mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM 130gms (kit)
Canon RF-S 55-210mm F5.0-7.1 IS STM 270gms ($350)
Canon RF 16mm f/2.8 STM 165gms ($280)

What are the advantages of the R10 over the R50?

Option 3 move to Canon RF. I am more confident of Canon's support of the RF system. I could sell all my EFM and the following EF-S (EF) equipment:
Canon 77D body
Canon 100D body
Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS
2 x Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
2 x Canon EF-S 55-250 IS f/4.5-5.6

And retain the following for use with the R8:
Canon EF 50mm F1.4 290gms
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS 700 gms

Get:
Canon R8 system 3355 gms (total investment $3900 less trade-in)
Canon R8 body 460 gms ($1500)
Canon RF 15-30mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM 390 gms ($550)
Canon RF 100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM 635gms ($600)
Canon RF 24mm f/1.8 IS 270 gms ($600)
Canon RF 85mm f/2 IS 500 gms ($550)
Canon EF-RF adapter 110 gms ($99)

I am torn between staying with the EFM or moving to RF or the RF-S.

The R8 isn't much heavier than the R10, but the RF lenses are much heavier than their EFM and EF-S counterparts. Besides, on the APSC sensor, I can use a 300 gm 50mm f/1.4 instead of a 500 gm 85mm f/2. It's another matter that for the R8 body alone, I could get an R50 along with two kit lenses, a 16mm f/2.8 and an EF to RF adapter.

I know that a full-frame system offers better low-light performance, and there have been occasions when I have been forced to push the ISO over 3200 and live with a grainy image, but the trade-off has been the ability to travel light. To quote DP member quiquae (see link below), "The reason why I'm interested in R10 is because I've been leaving my EOS R system at home due to the excessive bulk too often lately".

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66185618

Thanks, everyone. It's pretty tough to name each one of you individually.

gaul · Mar 9, 2023

Alastair Norcross said:
I would stick with your current system for now, and see what Canon releases in RF-S. I think it’s quite likely that they’ll release the 22 pancake and the 11-22 (or close equivalents). Both the RF 16 and 50 are small and light too, and work very well on crop RF (I use them on my R7). Your current M kit still works well, though doesn’t it? I use my M6II and EF-M lenses alongside my R gear. I don’t care that Canon isn’t making more M stuff. That doesn’t stop what I have working.

gaul · Mar 9, 2023

gaul said:
Alastair Norcross said:

I would stick with your current system for now, and see what Canon releases in RF-S. I think it’s quite likely that they’ll release the 22 pancake and the 11-22 (or close equivalents). Both the RF 16 and 50 are small and light too, and work very well on crop RF (I use them on my R7). Your current M kit still works well, though doesn’t it? I use my M6II and EF-M lenses alongside my R gear. I don’t care that Canon isn’t making more M stuff. That doesn’t stop what I have working.

Click to expand...

Or sell it to me for 500 bucks .. all of it

cheers

Gaul

MAC · Mar 9, 2023

navinadvani said:
To conclude:

Option 1:
Stick to EFM and sell all my EF and EF-S equipment for cash. I have only ever bought B&H Photo (during my trips to NY). I have never sold anything ever - in the past, I gave my 40D and 60D away (with a kit lens) to my friend's kids to get them started. So I am contemplating taking everything in a camera bag and dropping it off with them. How would I know what a fair market value is?

Option 2 move to Canon RF-S. What are the advantages the RF-S system has over the EF-M? Would Canon be supporting the smaller sensor cameras long term? I would have to sell all my EFM equipment and the following EF-S (EF) equipment:
Canon 77D body
Canon 100D body
Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS
2 x Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
2 x Canon EF-S 55-250 IS f/4.5-5.6

And retain the following for use with RF-S:
Canon EF 50mm F1.4 290gms
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM 385gms

Then either get the R50 or R10:
Canon R50 system 1725 gms (total investment $1410 less trade-in)
Canon EF-RF adapter 110 gms ($99)
Canon EOS R50 375 gms + 2 lens kit ($1030)
Canon RF-S 18-45mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM 130gms (kit)
Canon RF-S 55-210mm F5.0-7.1 IS STM 270gms (kit)
Canon RF 16mm f/2.8 STM 165gms ($280)
Or get the R10:
Canon R10 system 1776 gms (total investment $1760 less trade-in)
Canon EF-RF adapter 110 gms ($99)
Canon EOS R10 426 gms + 18-45 lens kit ($1000)
Canon RF-S 18-45mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM 130gms (kit)
Canon RF-S 55-210mm F5.0-7.1 IS STM 270gms ($350)
Canon RF 16mm f/2.8 STM 165gms ($280)

What are the advantages of the R10 over the R50?

Option 3 move to Canon RF. I am more confident of Canon's support of the RF system. I could sell all my EFM and the following EF-S (EF) equipment:
Canon 77D body
Canon 100D body
Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS
2 x Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
2 x Canon EF-S 55-250 IS f/4.5-5.6

And retain the following for use with the R8:
Canon EF 50mm F1.4 290gms
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS 700 gms

Get:
Canon R8 system 3355 gms (total investment $3900 less trade-in)
Canon R8 body 460 gms ($1500)
Canon RF 15-30mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM 390 gms ($550)
Canon RF 100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM 635gms ($600)
Canon RF 24mm f/1.8 IS 270 gms ($600)
Canon RF 85mm f/2 IS 500 gms ($550)
Canon EF-RF adapter 110 gms ($99)

I am torn between staying with the EFM or moving to RF or the RF-S.

The R8 isn't much heavier than the R10, but the RF lenses are much heavier than their EFM and EF-S counterparts. Besides, on the APSC sensor, I can use a 300 gm 50mm f/1.4 instead of a 500 gm 85mm f/2. It's another matter that for the R8 body alone, I could get an R50 along with two kit lenses, a 16mm f/2.8 and an EF to RF adapter.

I know that a full-frame system offers better low-light performance, and there have been occasions when I have been forced to push the ISO over 3200 and live with a grainy image, but the trade-off has been the ability to travel light. To quote DP member quiquae (see link below), "The reason why I'm interested in R10 is because I've been leaving my EOS R system at home due to the excessive bulk too often lately".

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66185618

Thanks, everyone. It's pretty tough to name each one of you individually.

you can get immediate feedback on used prices at the B&H used website

low weight is your main criteria so sell most everything else and get R10 + RF-s 18-150 kit and ef/ef-s adaptor

your m50 + 11-22 + 22 is nice low weight for travel, keep that and carry also

keep your 50 f1.4 and 55-250 stm and 60 macro

JRET · Mar 9, 2023

navinadvani said:
...... So I am contemplating taking everything in a camera bag and dropping it off with them. How would I know what a fair market value is? ........

In addition to looking at B&H used prices you can get instant quotes on selling gear at:
KEH and MPB

Moving from Canon M system

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