P1000: Kingfishers episode 57: Little Wooden Bridge III

Booted Cat

Senior Member
Messages
3,165
Reaction score
2,943
This time the spot is near the Little Wooden Bridge, Hongmei Park, Changzhou, China. The last episode whose title contains "Little Wooden Bridge" is episode 30 "Little Wooden Bridge II", but actually episode 32 "Just about to Swoop" was also made near that bridge.

This shot has a focus near the head, so the head is sharp but the tail isn't.
This shot has a focus near the head, so the head is sharp but the tail isn't.

This shot has a focus at the bird's body center, so both the head and tail are relatively sharp but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. Also, this shot is -1EV which has more noise than the first shot.
This shot has a focus at the bird's body center, so both the head and tail are relatively sharp but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. Also, this shot is -1EV which has more noise than the first shot.

Which shot above do you like more? I guess in this case, a sharper head is more important than a sharper tail, so my preference goes to the first shot, which also happens to have less noise than the second shot (-0.3EV vs. -1EV).

p.s. But if you look at the sharpness of the blue hair on the lower back, the second shot looks better overall.

p.p.s. Another render of the second shot which uses Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection in NX Studio to prevent the white neck from blowing out:

Active D-Lighting: Normal; Saturation: 50; Highlight Protection: 100; Shadow Protection: 100
Active D-Lighting: Normal; Saturation: 50; Highlight Protection: 100; Shadow Protection: 100
 
Last edited:
Which shot above do you like more? I guess in this case, a sharper head is more important than a sharper tail, so my preference goes to the first shot, which also happens to have less noise than the second shot (-0.3EV vs. -1EV).

p.s. But if you look at the sharpness of the blue hair on the lower back, the second shot looks better overall.
Nice shots.

I think the slight blur at the tail was probably motion blur. This little beauty probably wagged its tail when you took the shot. 1/50 sec was not that fast. If you didn't point that out, nobody will notice that.

When a camera focused on the head, it didn't just focus on one spot. it actually focused on the entire vertical plane of where the head was. The tail was in the same focal plane as the head. It should be in focus.

But that is splitting hairs. You had plenty of DOF at f/7.1. The entire bird was in focus in both shots, whether it was focused on the head or the body wouldn't make any difference.
 
Last edited:
Which shot above do you like more? I guess in this case, a sharper head is more important than a sharper tail, so my preference goes to the first shot, which also happens to have less noise than the second shot (-0.3EV vs. -1EV).

p.s. But if you look at the sharpness of the blue hair on the lower back, the second shot looks better overall.
Nice shots.

I think the slight blur at the tail was probably motion blur. This little beauty probably wagged its tail when you took the shot. 1/50 sec was not that fast. If you didn't point that out, nobody will notice that.

When a camera focused on the head, it didn't just focus on one spot. it actually focused on the entire vertical plane of where the head was. The tail was in the same focal plane as the head. It should be in focus.

But that is splitting hairs. You had plenty of DOF at f/7.1. The entire bird was in focus in both shots, whether it was focused on the head or the body wouldn't make any difference.
Considering the blue hair on the lower back is also blurry in the first shot, the first shot probably does have motion blur.

But I beg to differ on your opinion that focusing on the bird head or body center wouldn't make a difference. From my experience it does slightly change sharpness at the bird tail. In other words, the bird head and tail are not exactly on the same focal plane most of the time.
 
But I beg to differ on your opinion that focusing on the bird head or body center wouldn't make a difference. From my experience it does slightly change sharpness at the bird tail. In other words, the bird head and tail are not exactly on the same focal plane most of the time.
That is fine. That is your photo and you are the judge.

Don't forget that you were using f/7.1. You can tell the extent of the DOF just by looking at the extent of sharpness of the twig that the bird is on.
 
But I beg to differ on your opinion that focusing on the bird head or body center wouldn't make a difference. From my experience it does slightly change sharpness at the bird tail. In other words, the bird head and tail are not exactly on the same focal plane most of the time.
That is fine. That is your photo and you are the judge.

Don't forget that you were using f/7.1. You can tell the extent of the DOF just by looking at the extent of sharpness of the twig that the bird is on.
Aren't these really small sensors supposed to have very deep DOF regardless though?
 
Aren't these really small sensors supposed to have very deep DOF regardless though?
I don't know the science of DOF. From my experience, at the same focal length, small sensor like the 1/2.3" of my A1000 will have deeper DOF than the APSC sensor of my CPA.

However, DOF will reduce as the focal length gets longer, also from my experience. The FL of the photos taken by BC was over 2000 mm, the DOF would be quite shallow if not for the f/7.1.

Even that, as evident on the photo, by the sharpness of the twig, the DOF of the photo is not much more than the size of the bird, which is not very deep at all.
 
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.

What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.

I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?

Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
 
Aren't these really small sensors supposed to have very deep DOF regardless though?
I don't know the science of DOF. From my experience, at the same focal length, small sensor like the 1/2.3" of my A1000 will have deeper DOF than the APSC sensor of my CPA.

However, DOF will reduce as the focal length gets longer, also from my experience. The FL of the photos taken by BC was over 2000 mm, the DOF would be quite shallow if not for the f/7.1.

Even that, as evident on the photo, by the sharpness of the twig, the DOF of the photo is not much more than the size of the bird, which is not very deep at all.
Exactly because the DOF is not deep, if the bird's head and tail are not at exactly the same distance from the camera, they won't be at exactly the same sharpness.
 
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
 
Last edited:
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell when you repost images here there is always some degree of compression - the image on your PC will look a little different when posted here. Or it can look a bit different.

The file on goggle drive is not the RAW file - it was a JPG.

I reduced the noise first - I think there is a clear difference. One of the best things I've done is invest in noise reduction software - user friendly. I'm a beginner only had it a couple of months.

e3d6fd6675b7487186fa2d7e6556d8fd.jpg

Editing - the only thing I did to it was fix the small amount of blown out white on the neck. The white on the chin was not blown out.

My processing methods/steps is to hopefully do as little as possible - this one as noted before looked fine, except for the noise. I didn't see the blown out white with my eye - the software ID'd it and I could turn the highlights down on just that small patch of white on the neck. My software is Luminar Neo - not as sophisticated and high end as some such as DXO, Photoshop, etc. But then again I'm not convinced I'm getting the best out of Neo yet.

8bddaef8f2274c73a23ea05b5aa390a6.jpg

Ev

--
https://evsphotos.smugmug.com/
 
Last edited:
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell when you repost images here there is always some degree of compression - the image on your PC will look a little different when posted here. Or it can look a bit different.

The file on goggle drive is not the RAW file - it was a JPG.
I haven't read your entire message and am going to sleep, but:
  1. I'm not sure if a JPG file uploaded to a DPReview forum is exactly the same as the original, but at least the image width and height look the same.
  2. The Google Drive link I provided has a subfolder named "RAW"...
I reduced the noise first - I think there is a clear difference. One of the best things I've done is invest in noise reduction software - user friendly. I'm a beginner only had it a couple of months.

e3d6fd6675b7487186fa2d7e6556d8fd.jpg

Editing - the only thing I did to it was fix the small amount of blown out white on the neck. The white on the chin was not blown out.

My processing methods/steps is to hopefully do as little as possible - this one as noted before looked fine, except for the noise. I didn't see the blown out white with my eye - the software ID'd it and I could turn the highlights down on just that small patch of white on the neck. My software is Luminar Neo - not as sophisticated and high end as some such as DXO, Photoshop, etc. But then again I'm not convinced I'm getting the best out of Neo yet.

8bddaef8f2274c73a23ea05b5aa390a6.jpg

Ev
 
Last edited:
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell when you repost images here there is always some degree of compression - the image on your PC will look a little different when posted here. Or it can look a bit different.

The file on goggle drive is not the RAW file - it was a JPG.

I reduced the noise first - I think there is a clear difference. One of the best things I've done is invest in noise reduction software - user friendly. I'm a beginner only had it a couple of months.

e3d6fd6675b7487186fa2d7e6556d8fd.jpg

Editing - the only thing I did to it was fix the small amount of blown out white on the neck. The white on the chin was not blown out.
After a sleep.

At first I thought you were wrong about the use of "chin", but now I found this image with Google:

dc3311cb48634561a13c975a1c08cd99.jpg.png

Looks like a bird chin is quite different from a human's...
My processing methods/steps is to hopefully do as little as possible - this one as noted before looked fine, except for the noise. I didn't see the blown out white with my eye - the software ID'd it and I could turn the highlights down on just that small patch of white on the neck. My software is Luminar Neo - not as sophisticated and high end as some such as DXO, Photoshop, etc. But then again I'm not convinced I'm getting the best out of Neo yet.

8bddaef8f2274c73a23ea05b5aa390a6.jpg

Ev
Great result! Noise does seem to cease without a sense of loss of detail in hairs.
 
Last edited:
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell when you repost images here there is always some degree of compression - the image on your PC will look a little different when posted here. Or it can look a bit different.

The file on goggle drive is not the RAW file - it was a JPG.

I reduced the noise first - I think there is a clear difference. One of the best things I've done is invest in noise reduction software - user friendly. I'm a beginner only had it a couple of months.

e3d6fd6675b7487186fa2d7e6556d8fd.jpg

Editing - the only thing I did to it was fix the small amount of blown out white on the neck. The white on the chin was not blown out.
After a sleep.

At first I thought you were wrong about the use of "chin", but now I found this image with Google:

dc3311cb48634561a13c975a1c08cd99.jpg.png

Looks like a bird chin is quite different from a human's...
My processing methods/steps is to hopefully do as little as possible - this one as noted before looked fine, except for the noise. I didn't see the blown out white with my eye - the software ID'd it and I could turn the highlights down on just that small patch of white on the neck. My software is Luminar Neo - not as sophisticated and high end as some such as DXO, Photoshop, etc. But then again I'm not convinced I'm getting the best out of Neo yet.

8bddaef8f2274c73a23ea05b5aa390a6.jpg

Ev
Great result! Noise does seem to cease without a sense of loss of detail in hairs.
Thank you BC - don't know how I didn't see that RAW file in your GD. I went ahead an processed it - again I didn't do much, didn't need hardly anything according to my eyes. Those that are much more skilled at photo processing might have reason to nit-pik - I have no idea.

My processing is to keep it as simple as possible, as realistic as I recall seeing the bird/wildlife. Its a constant learning for me, which is fine.

Anyway - my software recognized your P1000 and I could choose a Camera Profile - chose Camera Neutral. No cropping, all changes were small increments - + exposure a little more and shadows, -highlights to remove the almost unseen blown white on the neck. Adjusted White Balance overall with the eye-dropper only. Masked the bird and added slightly small details. Used what's called the Accent Ai Tool, slightly - an all-in adjustment slider - that can substitute for many traditional controls, including shadows, highlights, contrast, tone, saturation, exposure, and details.

I did the Noise Reduction at the end. Topaz DeNoise provides 4 models of noise reduction - you choose the one you think (can be quite subjective) is best, and sometime tweek from there. I only tweeked as I recall Sharpness - more sharpness can introduce more noise. Increased the NR some from what the Ai model provided. So just a few clicks. I don't know that it's any better than any of yours, except for the noise reduction.

Also not easy to edit when you haven't actually seen the bird in person in the particular light it was in.

View in Original Size for best viewing.

88772dc7ef614429a1ba9698b4b9bf39.jpg

Ev

PS As far as the "chin" - bird topography can get awfully detailed when ID'ing different part of a bird in particular all the different types and location of feathers.

--
https://evsphotos.smugmug.com/
 
Last edited:
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell when you repost images here there is always some degree of compression - the image on your PC will look a little different when posted here. Or it can look a bit different.

The file on goggle drive is not the RAW file - it was a JPG.

I reduced the noise first - I think there is a clear difference. One of the best things I've done is invest in noise reduction software - user friendly. I'm a beginner only had it a couple of months.

e3d6fd6675b7487186fa2d7e6556d8fd.jpg

Editing - the only thing I did to it was fix the small amount of blown out white on the neck. The white on the chin was not blown out.
After a sleep.

At first I thought you were wrong about the use of "chin", but now I found this image with Google:

dc3311cb48634561a13c975a1c08cd99.jpg.png

Looks like a bird chin is quite different from a human's...
My processing methods/steps is to hopefully do as little as possible - this one as noted before looked fine, except for the noise. I didn't see the blown out white with my eye - the software ID'd it and I could turn the highlights down on just that small patch of white on the neck. My software is Luminar Neo - not as sophisticated and high end as some such as DXO, Photoshop, etc. But then again I'm not convinced I'm getting the best out of Neo yet.

8bddaef8f2274c73a23ea05b5aa390a6.jpg

Ev
Great result! Noise does seem to cease without a sense of loss of detail in hairs.
Thank you BC - don't know how I didn't see that RAW file in your GD. I went ahead an processed it - again I didn't do much, didn't need hardly anything according to my eyes. Those that are much more skilled at photo processing might have reason to nit-pik - I have no idea.

My processing is to keep it as simple as possible, as realistic as I recall seeing the bird/wildlife. Its a constant learning for me, which is fine.

Anyway - my software recognized your P1000 and I could choose a Camera Profile - chose Camera Neutral. No cropping, all changes were small increments - + exposure a little more and shadows, -highlights to remove the almost unseen blown white on the neck. Adjusted White Balance overall with the eye-dropper only. Masked the bird and added slightly small details. Used what's called the Accent Ai Tool, slightly - an all-in adjustment slider - that can substitute for many traditional controls, including shadows, highlights, contrast, tone, saturation, exposure, and details.

I did the Noise Reduction at the end. Topaz DeNoise provides 4 models of noise reduction - you choose the one you think (can be quite subjective) is best, and sometime tweek from there. I only tweeked as I recall Sharpness - more sharpness can introduce more noise. Increased the NR some from what the Ai model provided. So just a few clicks. I don't know that it's any better than any of yours, except for the noise reduction.

Also not easy to edit when you haven't actually seen the bird in person in the particular light it was in.

View in Original Size for best viewing.

88772dc7ef614429a1ba9698b4b9bf39.jpg

Ev

PS As far as the "chin" - bird topography can get awfully detailed when ID'ing different part of a bird in particular all the different types and location of feathers.
It's nice to play with all different post-processing software. For financial reasons I'm sticking with NX Studio and the P1000.

I found the reflections in the bird eye in your latest tweak not as sharp as that of the third photo in my original post...
 
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell when you repost images here there is always some degree of compression - the image on your PC will look a little different when posted here. Or it can look a bit different.

The file on goggle drive is not the RAW file - it was a JPG.

I reduced the noise first - I think there is a clear difference. One of the best things I've done is invest in noise reduction software - user friendly. I'm a beginner only had it a couple of months.

e3d6fd6675b7487186fa2d7e6556d8fd.jpg

Editing - the only thing I did to it was fix the small amount of blown out white on the neck. The white on the chin was not blown out.
After a sleep.

At first I thought you were wrong about the use of "chin", but now I found this image with Google:

dc3311cb48634561a13c975a1c08cd99.jpg.png

Looks like a bird chin is quite different from a human's...
My processing methods/steps is to hopefully do as little as possible - this one as noted before looked fine, except for the noise. I didn't see the blown out white with my eye - the software ID'd it and I could turn the highlights down on just that small patch of white on the neck. My software is Luminar Neo - not as sophisticated and high end as some such as DXO, Photoshop, etc. But then again I'm not convinced I'm getting the best out of Neo yet.

8bddaef8f2274c73a23ea05b5aa390a6.jpg

Ev
Great result! Noise does seem to cease without a sense of loss of detail in hairs.
Thank you BC - don't know how I didn't see that RAW file in your GD. I went ahead an processed it - again I didn't do much, didn't need hardly anything according to my eyes. Those that are much more skilled at photo processing might have reason to nit-pik - I have no idea.

My processing is to keep it as simple as possible, as realistic as I recall seeing the bird/wildlife. Its a constant learning for me, which is fine.

Anyway - my software recognized your P1000 and I could choose a Camera Profile - chose Camera Neutral. No cropping, all changes were small increments - + exposure a little more and shadows, -highlights to remove the almost unseen blown white on the neck. Adjusted White Balance overall with the eye-dropper only. Masked the bird and added slightly small details. Used what's called the Accent Ai Tool, slightly - an all-in adjustment slider - that can substitute for many traditional controls, including shadows, highlights, contrast, tone, saturation, exposure, and details.

I did the Noise Reduction at the end. Topaz DeNoise provides 4 models of noise reduction - you choose the one you think (can be quite subjective) is best, and sometime tweek from there. I only tweeked as I recall Sharpness - more sharpness can introduce more noise. Increased the NR some from what the Ai model provided. So just a few clicks. I don't know that it's any better than any of yours, except for the noise reduction.

Also not easy to edit when you haven't actually seen the bird in person in the particular light it was in.

View in Original Size for best viewing.

88772dc7ef614429a1ba9698b4b9bf39.jpg

Ev

PS As far as the "chin" - bird topography can get awfully detailed when ID'ing different part of a bird in particular all the different types and location of feathers.
It's nice to play with all different post-processing software. For financial reasons I'm sticking with NX Studio and the P1000.

I found the reflections in the bird eye in your latest tweak not as sharp as that of the third photo in my original post...
You'll do fine with NX Studio - it is excellent for Nikon cameras. P1000 looks like it suits you well and you know how to get the best out of it. I only upgraded cameras because I want to give a good go to BIF and better macros of butterflies and insects.

The reflection in the birds eye - and now I can't remember exactly but I know the JPG I did the eye had noise in it - removing the noise may have impacted it. But this final one is from the RAW file - probably user error on my part not paying attention - DeNoise you can mask certain parts if you want to denoise just those parts - I didn't do this with your file.

Ev

--
https://evsphotos.smugmug.com/
 
Last edited:
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell when you repost images here there is always some degree of compression - the image on your PC will look a little different when posted here. Or it can look a bit different.

The file on goggle drive is not the RAW file - it was a JPG.

I reduced the noise first - I think there is a clear difference. One of the best things I've done is invest in noise reduction software - user friendly. I'm a beginner only had it a couple of months.

e3d6fd6675b7487186fa2d7e6556d8fd.jpg

Editing - the only thing I did to it was fix the small amount of blown out white on the neck. The white on the chin was not blown out.
After a sleep.

At first I thought you were wrong about the use of "chin", but now I found this image with Google:

dc3311cb48634561a13c975a1c08cd99.jpg.png

Looks like a bird chin is quite different from a human's...
My processing methods/steps is to hopefully do as little as possible - this one as noted before looked fine, except for the noise. I didn't see the blown out white with my eye - the software ID'd it and I could turn the highlights down on just that small patch of white on the neck. My software is Luminar Neo - not as sophisticated and high end as some such as DXO, Photoshop, etc. But then again I'm not convinced I'm getting the best out of Neo yet.

8bddaef8f2274c73a23ea05b5aa390a6.jpg

Ev
Great result! Noise does seem to cease without a sense of loss of detail in hairs.
Thank you BC - don't know how I didn't see that RAW file in your GD. I went ahead an processed it - again I didn't do much, didn't need hardly anything according to my eyes. Those that are much more skilled at photo processing might have reason to nit-pik - I have no idea.

My processing is to keep it as simple as possible, as realistic as I recall seeing the bird/wildlife. Its a constant learning for me, which is fine.

Anyway - my software recognized your P1000 and I could choose a Camera Profile - chose Camera Neutral. No cropping, all changes were small increments - + exposure a little more and shadows, -highlights to remove the almost unseen blown white on the neck. Adjusted White Balance overall with the eye-dropper only. Masked the bird and added slightly small details. Used what's called the Accent Ai Tool, slightly - an all-in adjustment slider - that can substitute for many traditional controls, including shadows, highlights, contrast, tone, saturation, exposure, and details.

I did the Noise Reduction at the end. Topaz DeNoise provides 4 models of noise reduction - you choose the one you think (can be quite subjective) is best, and sometime tweek from there. I only tweeked as I recall Sharpness - more sharpness can introduce more noise. Increased the NR some from what the Ai model provided. So just a few clicks. I don't know that it's any better than any of yours, except for the noise reduction.

Also not easy to edit when you haven't actually seen the bird in person in the particular light it was in.

View in Original Size for best viewing.

88772dc7ef614429a1ba9698b4b9bf39.jpg

Ev

PS As far as the "chin" - bird topography can get awfully detailed when ID'ing different part of a bird in particular all the different types and location of feathers.
It's nice to play with all different post-processing software. For financial reasons I'm sticking with NX Studio and the P1000.

I found the reflections in the bird eye in your latest tweak not as sharp as that of the third photo in my original post...
You'll do fine with NX Studio - it is excellent for Nikon cameras. P1000 looks like it suits you well and you know how to get the best out of it. I only upgraded cameras because I want to give a good go to BIF and better macros of butterflies and insects.

The reflection in the birds eye - and now I can't remember exactly but I know the JPG I did the eye had noise in it - removing the noise may have impacted it. But this final one is from the RAW file - probably user error on my part not paying attention - DeNoise you can mask certain parts if you want to denoise just those parts - I didn't do this with your file.

Ev
Ev, I thought the P950 was good with BIF, have you used it for that? What is the longest focal length you've found you use with it for BIF?



--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961
 
Aren't these really small sensors supposed to have very deep DOF regardless though?
I don't know the science of DOF. From my experience, at the same focal length, small sensor like the 1/2.3" of my A1000 will have deeper DOF than the APSC sensor of my CPA.

However, DOF will reduce as the focal length gets longer, also from my experience. The FL of the photos taken by BC was over 2000 mm, the DOF would be quite shallow if not for the f/7.1.

Even that, as evident on the photo, by the sharpness of the twig, the DOF of the photo is not much more than the size of the bird, which is not very deep at all.
Exactly because the DOF is not deep, if the bird's head and tail are not at exactly the same distance from the camera, they won't be at exactly the same sharpness.
It makes me wonder about equivalency, does it change at higher focal lengths?
 
I think they are very nice images, excellent color, and detail. I don't really see any difference between the focus of the tail and the head - may just be my skill in assessing images - both look quite sharp to me.
The first shot has a blurry tail and lower back. Initially I thought it was because I focused near the bird head instead of at the body center, but now I'm more inclined to WPMChan's opinion that the bird tail has motion blur.

The second shot has both a sharp head and tail, but the head is not as sharp as that in the first shot. I'm almost sure this is a motion blur problem. The head is not as sharp as some of my finest shots.
What I did notice in both was noise - looking at the images at 100%. At more normal sizes its not noticeable. I've found using DeNoise sometimes something I think it is a little soft or out of focus will become sharper using the DeNooise.
About noise: The second shot happened to use -1.0EV while the first was -0.3EV because I used a [-1.0, -1.7, -0.3] exposure bracket to prevent white neck overexposure. So, the second shot has more noise than the first if we use Active D-Lighting in NX Studio to brighten them up to the same brightness level.

It's also important to note that if you use Shadow Protection instead of Active D-Lighting to brighten up dark parts, Shadow Protection will result in less noise. This is because Active D-Lighting adds or keeps more contrast, and more contrast leads to more noise.

Highlight Protection and Shadow Protection may be used to prevent the white neck from overexposure and to recover more detail on the white neck. Professional photographers would tell you a photo should never has a plain white portion (with the exception of the sun).
I'd be happy to put one or both of them through Topaz DeNoise if you'd like?
Here is the Google Drive link for the RAW for you RAW and post-processing junkies :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14v3k6FfOHrQ8djyzyoyMTUVqu4b08Iw8?usp=share_link
Again, very nice images - sometimes at least for me better not to nit-pik the images.

Ev
I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell when you repost images here there is always some degree of compression - the image on your PC will look a little different when posted here. Or it can look a bit different.

The file on goggle drive is not the RAW file - it was a JPG.

I reduced the noise first - I think there is a clear difference. One of the best things I've done is invest in noise reduction software - user friendly. I'm a beginner only had it a couple of months.

e3d6fd6675b7487186fa2d7e6556d8fd.jpg

Editing - the only thing I did to it was fix the small amount of blown out white on the neck. The white on the chin was not blown out.
After a sleep.

At first I thought you were wrong about the use of "chin", but now I found this image with Google:

dc3311cb48634561a13c975a1c08cd99.jpg.png

Looks like a bird chin is quite different from a human's...
My processing methods/steps is to hopefully do as little as possible - this one as noted before looked fine, except for the noise. I didn't see the blown out white with my eye - the software ID'd it and I could turn the highlights down on just that small patch of white on the neck. My software is Luminar Neo - not as sophisticated and high end as some such as DXO, Photoshop, etc. But then again I'm not convinced I'm getting the best out of Neo yet.

8bddaef8f2274c73a23ea05b5aa390a6.jpg

Ev
Great result! Noise does seem to cease without a sense of loss of detail in hairs.
Thank you BC - don't know how I didn't see that RAW file in your GD. I went ahead an processed it - again I didn't do much, didn't need hardly anything according to my eyes. Those that are much more skilled at photo processing might have reason to nit-pik - I have no idea.

My processing is to keep it as simple as possible, as realistic as I recall seeing the bird/wildlife. Its a constant learning for me, which is fine.

Anyway - my software recognized your P1000 and I could choose a Camera Profile - chose Camera Neutral. No cropping, all changes were small increments - + exposure a little more and shadows, -highlights to remove the almost unseen blown white on the neck. Adjusted White Balance overall with the eye-dropper only. Masked the bird and added slightly small details. Used what's called the Accent Ai Tool, slightly - an all-in adjustment slider - that can substitute for many traditional controls, including shadows, highlights, contrast, tone, saturation, exposure, and details.

I did the Noise Reduction at the end. Topaz DeNoise provides 4 models of noise reduction - you choose the one you think (can be quite subjective) is best, and sometime tweek from there. I only tweeked as I recall Sharpness - more sharpness can introduce more noise. Increased the NR some from what the Ai model provided. So just a few clicks. I don't know that it's any better than any of yours, except for the noise reduction.

Also not easy to edit when you haven't actually seen the bird in person in the particular light it was in.

View in Original Size for best viewing.

88772dc7ef614429a1ba9698b4b9bf39.jpg

Ev

PS As far as the "chin" - bird topography can get awfully detailed when ID'ing different part of a bird in particular all the different types and location of feathers.
It's nice to play with all different post-processing software. For financial reasons I'm sticking with NX Studio and the P1000.

I found the reflections in the bird eye in your latest tweak not as sharp as that of the third photo in my original post...
You'll do fine with NX Studio - it is excellent for Nikon cameras. P1000 looks like it suits you well and you know how to get the best out of it. I only upgraded cameras because I want to give a good go to BIF and better macros of butterflies and insects.

The reflection in the birds eye - and now I can't remember exactly but I know the JPG I did the eye had noise in it - removing the noise may have impacted it. But this final one is from the RAW file - probably user error on my part not paying attention - DeNoise you can mask certain parts if you want to denoise just those parts - I didn't do this with your file.

Ev
Ev, I thought the P950 was good with BIF, have you used it for that? What is the longest focal length you've found you use with it for BIF?
Interesting, I've never heard/red that the P90 was good for BIF - its a small sensor camera and doesn't to my knowledge allow for fast and easy tracking of the bird as it moves along. There may well be excellent photographers who can consistently get nice BIF. From limited use of the Canon R7 RF-100/400 the P950 doesn't come remotely close to AutoFocus, and tracking, and of course no eye-tracking which is very cool.

I've never consistently practiced with BIF, i.e. starting with low and slow, like gulls with the P950 - the P950 may be better than the P900, don't know. You know I don't keep up with focal lengths. Only thing I know with P950 BIF and focal length is you can not zoom out all the way and keep it in the frame. My BIF experience with the P950 very limited with some fairly close flying eagles. I'm sure others with more experience than I can weigh in. Maybe forum members DA or Sherman, ANAYV, Augustin, DodgeRock can be more help to you.

Best I could do with BIF - a lucky occasion.

Shot in Raw - edited Luminar Neo - Topaz DeNoise
Shot in Raw - edited Luminar Neo - Topaz DeNoise

ev



--
 
I posted some examples of P950 at full zoom in Feb 2020, using the software then available to me (Capture NX followed by Neat Image 8). Additional details are in the thread, including the recommendation for red dot sight and target-finding autofocus.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4467894

About a year later, DXO had added support for P950 and I had purchased Topaz Sharpen. The results from the 05/2021 reprocessing (not previously posted) are shown below. Images are cropped, but at full resolution.

The improvement obtained by using DXO followed by Topaz should be immediately obvious, even at ISO 100. At higher ISOs, the discrepancy is even larger.

40b53de90d9c43c1b3e6784947bdd3cd.jpg

c28be634a6934b12af26d201f28e0c82.jpg

2f81fda26d254720b24c3eafbf3f8b4e.jpg

4e2ce1bef1e1438eb1ceff6a19050a88.jpg

278746e09763420b88e3333d6d071224.jpg

4a4bd0b3da794c81a831f53aa675085c.jpg

--

Sherm
Sherms flickr page

P950 album

P900 album RX10iv album
 
Last edited:
I posted some examples of P950 at full zoom in Feb 2020, using the software then available to me (Capture NX followed by Neat Image 8). Additional details are in the thread, including the recommendation for red dot sight and target-finding autofocus.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4467894

About a year later, DXO had added support for P950 and I had purchased Topaz Sharpen. The results from the 05/2021 reprocessing (not previously posted) are shown below. Images are cropped, but at full resolution.

The improvement obtained by using DXO followed by Topaz should be immediately obvious, even at ISO 100. At higher ISOs, the discrepancy is even larger.

40b53de90d9c43c1b3e6784947bdd3cd.jpg

c28be634a6934b12af26d201f28e0c82.jpg

2f81fda26d254720b24c3eafbf3f8b4e.jpg

4e2ce1bef1e1438eb1ceff6a19050a88.jpg

278746e09763420b88e3333d6d071224.jpg

4a4bd0b3da794c81a831f53aa675085c.jpg
Helpful post Sherman. Thank you.

I recall that post - and thought about the "red dot" decided it was over my skill level and didn't persue. I hoping to practice and get better with BIF.

OTM was asking about what focus length was the longest you could use for BIF with the P950.

I've been very happy with Topaz DeNoise - using it as a stand alone.

Ev

--
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top