mikedemo
Forum Enthusiast
Yikes.On the R7, yes. Unfortunately, not on the R5
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
R7, first impressions, coming from an R5
- Thread starter Chris Wolfgram
- Start date
Chris Wolfgram
Veteran Member
Yes, of course I'm using OIS, even on the tripod. Because believe me, even on a very sold tripod, at 1280mm, without OIS enabled, as soon as I grip the camera, I can see it bouncing all over the place !
That is why I didn't like it with 20 fps. I'm too busy to be worrying about how many times that outer ring flashes when I'm shooting. Culling becomes tedious.Yikes.On the R7, yes. Unfortunately, not on the R5
I do use DPP, Quick Check, Full Screen to remove united files first but still it gets a little to much for me. It doesn't bother others.
R2D2
Veteran Member
I’ve never had an issue with silent shutter. There’s a little timer in my index finger! :-DThat is why I didn't like it with 20 fps. I'm too busy to be worrying about how many times that outer ring flashes when I'm shooting.Yikes.On the R7, yes. Unfortunately, not on the R5
Yes! Fastest method! Arrow key > x > arrow key > x > (as fast as I can press them!)
R2
:-DI’ve never had an issue with silent shutter. There’s a little timer in my index finger! :-DThat is why I didn't like it with 20 fps. I'm too busy to be worrying about how many times that outer ring flashes when I'm shooting.Yikes.On the R7, yes. Unfortunately, not on the R5
It's great. That mode is like looking at a finished Jpeg. DPP's downsizing algorithm for 'fit to screen' display is very good - contrasty which creates the illusion of sharpness.
For those unfamiliar. When done X-ing you go Edit - Rating - Select rejected images only. Then File - Move to trash.
John Sheehy
Veteran Member
Hmmm, I don't think that I've seen that with the R7 and RF800/11. The OIS makes the viewfinder pretty solid. When I put my old version 1 EF100-400 and a 2x TC on the R7, I can definitely see something similar to what you describe, with its inferior stabilizer.
Chris Wolfgram
Veteran Member
Not just you Zeee ! 20 fps is usually more than I need too. That's half the reason I shoot with my R5 in mechanical shutter mode. The other half is that it kills me that I don't have a good idea of how many shots I'm taking without a shutter sound.That is why I didn't like it with 20 fps. I'm too busy to be worrying about how many times that outer ring flashes when I'm shooting. Culling becomes tedious.Yikes.On the R7, yes. Unfortunately, not on the R5
I do use DPP, Quick Check, Full Screen to remove united files first but still it gets a little to much for me. It doesn't bother others.
Chris Wolfgram
Veteran Member
I might be exaggerating the problem, but I mean, it definitely jumps around....
CamerEyes
Veteran Member
My experience in focusing the EF100-400mm Mark II with 1.4x TC is consistent with yours. The R6Mii and the R7 have negligible focusing speed difference. Accuracy still belongs to the R6Mii, must be the new focusing system and AI focus / auto subject detect... with the caveat of far less pixels-on-subject, so there is a trade-off. It would take a 2x TC for the R6-ii to slightly surpass the R7 in pixels-on-subject by about 15%, but what happens to the AF then? The general rule for all the newer R bodies other than the R3 (with its stacked sensor) is that AF low light sensitivity sort of correlates with pixels-on subject, for the same pupil size (which you get with the same lens with or without TCs).I have the R7 and the R6Mii. Yes, the R7 shutter sound is loud as hell - it's almost like screaming to us - "Go EFCS or ES, damn it!"First off, I love my R5 ! But I had several reasons to rent and try the R7. 1) I really wanted to have a backup camera. 2) the R7 gives me so much more reach, with the same lenses, and 3) at $1500, the R7 seems like a super good value.
So anyway, I took it out in the backyard yesterday for some initial test shooting, and for the first 160 or so shots, I was using mechanical shutter, and geez ! That thing sounded horrendous ! Like I was whacking a spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet !And I could feel it through the grip too ! It's no wonder most of those first 160 shots were soft.
Is this normal ? Or is the mechanical shutter in this copy malfunctioning?
I dunno... But if Canon can't do any better than that, they should have just left the MS out of the R7... Heck I shot as fast as 1/500th, and not even those were sharp !
So I switched over to electronic shutter, with the volume set at the lowest setting... AweSO much nicer sounding, and of course zero shutter shock
Oh I was shooting at 1280mm, F11
So I ended up taking about 1300 shots... Not the best lighting, and not paying any attention to the BG.
But this morning, I started a couple hours earlier, had great low light right behind me, and paid attention to my BG, and I think I actually got a few pretty nice, aesthetic bird shots
I will post a few of those tomorrow if anyone cares.
Took about 2000 shots today.
So yes, I've pretty much already decided I'm going to buy this camera.
But that image quality is good. Very good. I thought it would be the same as what's on the 90D and M6 Mark II. Whatever they did with that sensor, or repurposed, re-engineered, sprinkled pixie dusts on it - it worked. I get beautiful images with acceptable noise levels north of ISO3200.
You will however encounter challenges when focusing in conditions where lighting isn't particularly optimal, something the R6Mii handles flawlessly.
I only have the R5 and R7, but I have found that the R5 AFes a bit faster and confidently in poor light than the R7, but when I put a 1.4x on the R5 to get the same pixels-on-subject as the R7 with the same lens, the R7 is now a little faster. So, Canon's lowlight sensitivity values for the R5 (-6EV) and R7 (-5EV) may be numbers rounded to -6 and -5, and may actually be something like -5.8 and -5.2, which become -4.8 and -5.2 effectively, when you put the 1.4x on the R5.
With the 2x TC, I find the R7 struggles a lot, to the point that I don't use it when tracking rapidly moving objects or subjects. The R6Mii slows down a bit when focusing this same lens with the same TC, but almost always locks in after a bit of hesitation, as opposed to the R7 just hesitating a lot in the same scenario.
Shooters on My Squad
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 1,055
- Solutions
- 3
- Reaction score
- 713
I’m not sure why this argument regarding EFCS is repeated so often in these forums, basically like you would just have benefits compared to a mechanical shutter, and the only downside is some strange bokeh.I have also not noticed that the R7 shutter is particularly loud. But I use it in EFCS or e-shutter, and never in full mechanical. Maybe I should try out full mechanical, just to see if it really is louder. From what I've read, the only reason to use full mechanical over EFCS is if you are shooting a very fast lens (F1.4 or faster) at a very fast shutter speed to prevent the possibility of some strange bokeh. And even then, whether you get that strange bokeh depends crucially on the background. In those situations, you could just use e-shutter. So there really is no need to use full mechanical, pretty much ever. Comparing my R7 in EFCS with my R in the same mode, I don't think the R7 is louder, but the sound is definitely different.This made me finally try comparing the shutter sounds on my 5D mk IV and R7. To be honest, I haven't really perceived the R7's shutter as being particularly loud personally (I have used it all the time in the EFCS mode, since I haven't been concerned about bokeh).I have the R7 and the R6Mii. Yes, the R7 shutter sound is loud as hell - it's almost like screaming to us - "Go EFCS or ES, damn it!"First off, I love my R5 ! But I had several reasons to rent and try the R7. 1) I really wanted to have a backup camera. 2) the R7 gives me so much more reach, with the same lenses, and 3) at $1500, the R7 seems like a super good value.
So anyway, I took it out in the backyard yesterday for some initial test shooting, and for the first 160 or so shots, I was using mechanical shutter, and geez ! That thing sounded horrendous ! Like I was whacking a spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet !
Is this normal ? Or is the mechanical shutter in this copy malfunctioning?
I dunno... But if Canon can't do any better than that, they should have just left the MS out of the R7... Heck I shot as fast as 1/500th, and not even those were sharp !
So I switched over to electronic shutter, with the volume set at the lowest setting... Awe
Oh I was shooting at 1280mm, F11
So I ended up taking about 1300 shots... Not the best lighting, and not paying any attention to the BG.
But this morning, I started a couple hours earlier, had great low light right behind me, and paid attention to my BG, and I think I actually got a few pretty nice, aesthetic bird shots
I will post a few of those tomorrow if anyone cares.
Took about 2000 shots today.
So yes, I've pretty much already decided I'm going to buy this camera.
Without actually recording and comparing audio files and taking single shots only, the loudest sound seemed to come from the 5D mk IV in the regular shutter mode, followed by the R7 mechanical shutter mode, 5D mk IV's slower mechanical shutter mode and R7 EFCS seemed to be pretty close to each other.
However, I have no experience what e.g. R5 sounds like compared to these two, so it may just be that I'm used to an another loud camera
In reality there are more artifacts produced by an EFCS, see http://aggregate.ee.engr.uky.edu/DIT/EI2019/efcsb.pdf
EFCS is just an in-between technology, until we’ll get truly global ES.
Shooters on My Squad
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 1,055
- Solutions
- 3
- Reaction score
- 713
This is false. Bokeh is just one problem with an EFCS, but there are more.
such as? In the real world, not theoretical world?
Not everyone shoot test charts at ISO100, 1/8000th second and f/1.2.
Shooters on My Squad
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 1,055
- Solutions
- 3
- Reaction score
- 713
Such as temporal artifacts and worse banding with artificial LED lighting which gets more common these days.
Shooters on My Squad
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 1,055
- Solutions
- 3
- Reaction score
- 713
Sony also recommends turning the EFCS off in case of banding / flickering: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00122281
I just can’t read the argument anymore that an EFCS is equivalent to a fully MS except bokeh at weird camera settings.
Maybe there is no difference between a MS & EFCS for BIF, but there are more artifacts in different conditions which I often enough experienced on my R5 with the EFCS turned on (in comparison to the MS).
I'm out here as I assume you are capable enough to do further research by yourself.
Last edited:
Alastair Norcross
Veteran Member
The reason is that many of us only experience benefits.I’m not sure why this argument regarding EFCS is repeated so often in these forums, basically like you would just have benefits compared to a mechanical shutter, and the only downside is some strange bokeh.I have also not noticed that the R7 shutter is particularly loud. But I use it in EFCS or e-shutter, and never in full mechanical. Maybe I should try out full mechanical, just to see if it really is louder. From what I've read, the only reason to use full mechanical over EFCS is if you are shooting a very fast lens (F1.4 or faster) at a very fast shutter speed to prevent the possibility of some strange bokeh. And even then, whether you get that strange bokeh depends crucially on the background. In those situations, you could just use e-shutter. So there really is no need to use full mechanical, pretty much ever. Comparing my R7 in EFCS with my R in the same mode, I don't think the R7 is louder, but the sound is definitely different.This made me finally try comparing the shutter sounds on my 5D mk IV and R7. To be honest, I haven't really perceived the R7's shutter as being particularly loud personally (I have used it all the time in the EFCS mode, since I haven't been concerned about bokeh).I have the R7 and the R6Mii. Yes, the R7 shutter sound is loud as hell - it's almost like screaming to us - "Go EFCS or ES, damn it!"First off, I love my R5 ! But I had several reasons to rent and try the R7. 1) I really wanted to have a backup camera. 2) the R7 gives me so much more reach, with the same lenses, and 3) at $1500, the R7 seems like a super good value.
So anyway, I took it out in the backyard yesterday for some initial test shooting, and for the first 160 or so shots, I was using mechanical shutter, and geez ! That thing sounded horrendous ! Like I was whacking a spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet !
Is this normal ? Or is the mechanical shutter in this copy malfunctioning?
I dunno... But if Canon can't do any better than that, they should have just left the MS out of the R7... Heck I shot as fast as 1/500th, and not even those were sharp !
So I switched over to electronic shutter, with the volume set at the lowest setting... Awe
Oh I was shooting at 1280mm, F11
So I ended up taking about 1300 shots... Not the best lighting, and not paying any attention to the BG.
But this morning, I started a couple hours earlier, had great low light right behind me, and paid attention to my BG, and I think I actually got a few pretty nice, aesthetic bird shots
I will post a few of those tomorrow if anyone cares.
Took about 2000 shots today.
So yes, I've pretty much already decided I'm going to buy this camera.
Without actually recording and comparing audio files and taking single shots only, the loudest sound seemed to come from the 5D mk IV in the regular shutter mode, followed by the R7 mechanical shutter mode, 5D mk IV's slower mechanical shutter mode and R7 EFCS seemed to be pretty close to each other.
However, I have no experience what e.g. R5 sounds like compared to these two, so it may just be that I'm used to an another loud camera
In reality, pretty much no one will see or notice such artifacts. I didn’t download that file, because I’m not going to download files from unknown places linked by people I don’t know. If you want to post a real world comparison of two shots take with full mechanical and EFCS where such artifacts negatively impact the images, I’ll take a look at them. I’m simply basing my judgment on tens of thousands of my own shots in EFCS where that shutter mode had no perceptible negative impact, and no shots where it did.
Alastair Norcross
Veteran Member
temporal artifacts? As in tears in the fabric of space time? Now that is some pretty freaky stuff!
BirdShooter7
Veteran Member
I downloaded it and it does demonstrate what you asked for. I have noticed the flickering in certain lighting conditions and was easily able to deal with it by turning on the antiflicker mode.
+1 and for R8 users just as well.
"Perceptible" a key word here in real life.
John Sheehy
Veteran Member
... but you're too busy to mention them? Thanks for the small amount of time that you did give us here to enrich our knowledge base..
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum