R7, first impressions, coming from an R5

First off, I love my R5 ! But I had several reasons to rent and try the R7. 1) I really wanted to have a backup camera. 2) the R7 gives me so much more reach, with the same lenses, and 3) at $1500, the R7 seems like a super good value.

So anyway, I took it out in the backyard yesterday for some initial test shooting, and for the first 160 or so shots, I was using mechanical shutter, and geez ! That thing sounded horrendous ! Like I was whacking a spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet ! And I could feel it through the grip too ! It's no wonder most of those first 160 shots were soft.

Is this normal ? Or is the mechanical shutter in this copy malfunctioning?

I dunno... But if Canon can't do any better than that, they should have just left the MS out of the R7... Heck I shot as fast as 1/500th, and not even those were sharp !

So I switched over to electronic shutter, with the volume set at the lowest setting... Awe SO much nicer sounding, and of course zero shutter shock Immediately I started getting nearly all sharp shots.... I even managed some sharp shots at 1/40 and 1/60th.

Oh I was shooting at 1280mm, F11

So I ended up taking about 1300 shots... Not the best lighting, and not paying any attention to the BG.

But this morning, I started a couple hours earlier, had great low light right behind me, and paid attention to my BG, and I think I actually got a few pretty nice, aesthetic bird shots

I will post a few of those tomorrow if anyone cares.

Took about 2000 shots today.

So yes, I've pretty much already decided I'm going to buy this camera.

I would love to see your photos as I pretty much did what you did e.g. R5 + R7 and love them both. I also quickly learned the Mech Shutter vs 1sr Curtain on R7 like you did too. So looking forward to them.

Bramble9

Chris Wolfgram said:

for the first 160 or so shots, I was using mechanical shutter, and geez ! That thing sounded horrendous ! Like I was whacking a spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet ! And I could feel it through the grip too ! It's no wonder most of those first 160 shots were soft.

Is this normal ? Or is the mechanical shutter in this copy malfunctioning?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately not your copy I'm afraid. I and lots of others have had the same experience. I switched to EFCS (Elec. 1st-curtain shutter) as my primary choice, but even that can be a problem in some cases. Tip: Try to keep your EFCS drivemode at "H" (8 shots/sec).

Occasionally I also use Electronic Shutter, especially if I want the faster drivemode (15shots/sec in "H" mode, 30shots/sec in "H+"). But electronic shutter comes of course with other tradeoffs like rolling shutter which is pretty bad on the R7. So elec.shutter is not the universal choice for me.

But besides that a I fully agree. The camera is great value for money. I would however happily have paid more to get more. My "whishlist" for an R7+ or R7II:

* Faster sensor (faster read-out)

* Better damped shutter (or IS better suppressing shutter vibrations)

* Built-in gps.

* An extra control-wheel. I have trouble configuring a good setup with only two wheels to assign functionality (That combined wheel and on/off switch on the R6II would have been a great addition to the R7 I think).

* Oh well, and some "extras" like *premium* crop-lenses (follow-ups to EF-S "classics" like the 15-85 and 10-22mm?).

But EOS R7 is still a great camera for the money when you learn to work-around it limitations (But they should honestly never have released a camera so tormented by shutter shock).

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I have to say this is the first real time I have been disappointed with Canon. Compared to my old R5 and my new R6II it just seems like Canon cheaped out. I made a joke on other thread saying I'm not concerned about shooting scaring birds, I'm more concerned about scaring someone beside me



I found it tack sharp right away with my 100-500. I had to mess around with the R5 and PP to get the results I wanted.

My first impressions are - I'm impressed. A few days ago was my first real day out with it. I'm finally in a climate that is not -35 celsius and only crows flying around this time of year. I was not ready for this bird. I was pretty close and it took off when I had my camera down. It is not perfect but IMO it handled AF faster than my R5 could have. Some have compared AF to the R3. I don't know as I have never shot with one but it was pretty awesome IMO.

So except for the mechanical shutter I give it a big thumbs up for the short time I have used it.











Its sharp. I have yet to push crops. I hate working on my laptop. I miss my 27" screen





No birds at this spot so I practised on pigeons. It locked onto the pigeon and held on quite well.



--
Don't Look Up.

All those were taken with EFCS. I have yet to test ES. Never used it on my R5.

I adjusted the exposure a bit on the second plane shot.





--
Don't Look Up.

Chris Wolfgram said:

First off, I love my R5 ! But I had several reasons to rent and try the R7. 1) I really wanted to have a backup camera. 2) the R7 gives me so much more reach, with the same lenses, and 3) at $1500, the R7 seems like a super good value.

So anyway, I took it out in the backyard yesterday for some initial test shooting, and for the first 160 or so shots, I was using mechanical shutter, and geez ! That thing sounded horrendous ! Like I was whacking a spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet ! And I could feel it through the grip too ! It's no wonder most of those first 160 shots were soft.

Is this normal ? Or is the mechanical shutter in this copy malfunctioning?

I dunno... But if Canon can't do any better than that, they should have just left the MS out of the R7... Heck I shot as fast as 1/500th, and not even those were sharp !

So I switched over to electronic shutter, with the volume set at the lowest setting... Awe SO much nicer sounding, and of course zero shutter shock Immediately I started getting nearly all sharp shots.... I even managed some sharp shots at 1/40 and 1/60th.

Oh I was shooting at 1280mm, F11

So I ended up taking about 1300 shots... Not the best lighting, and not paying any attention to the BG.

But this morning, I started a couple hours earlier, had great low light right behind me, and paid attention to my BG, and I think I actually got a few pretty nice, aesthetic bird shots

I will post a few of those tomorrow if anyone cares.

Took about 2000 shots today.

So yes, I've pretty much already decided I'm going to buy this camera.

Click to expand...

I have the R7 and the R6Mii. Yes, the R7 shutter sound is loud as hell - it's almost like screaming to us - "Go EFCS or ES, damn it!"

But that image quality is good. Very good. I thought it would be the same as what's on the 90D and M6 Mark II. Whatever they did with that sensor, or repurposed, re-engineered, sprinkled pixie dusts on it - it worked. I get beautiful images with acceptable noise levels north of ISO3200.

You will however encounter challenges when focusing in conditions where lighting isn't particularly optimal, something the R6Mii handles flawlessly.

Sounds like we have had some very similar experiences with the R7.

But for myself, keep in mind that most of my shooting is small, perched birds, and my favorite, most used lens (even now with the 1.6 crop factor) is my 800 F11. So "even with" great light, it's going to be rare for me to be shooting any faster than say 1/1600th. 1/320th to 1/800th is more typical.

I'll come back later, and post a few of my more aesthetic test shots later

Thank you for you guys confirmations.

Zeee said:

I have to say this is the first real time I have been disappointed with Canon. Compared to my old R5 and my new R6II it just seems like Canon cheaped out. I made a joke on other thread saying I'm not concerned about shooting scaring birds, I'm more concerned about scaring someone beside me

Click to expand...

Lol I hear that ! First time I clicked it, I just about threw the camera down, and ran back in the house !

Zeee said:

I found it tack sharp right away with my 100-500. I had to mess around with the R5 and PP to get the results I wanted.

My first impressions are - I'm impressed. A few days ago was my first real day out with it. I'm finally in a climate that is not -35 celsius and only crows flying around this time of year. I was not ready for this bird. I was pretty close and it took off when I had my camera down. It is not perfect but IMO it handled AF faster than my R5 could have. Some have compared AF to the R3. I don't know as I have never shot with one but it was pretty awesome IMO.

So except for the mechanical shutter I give it a big thumbs up for the short time I have used it.











Its sharp. I have yet to push crops. I hate working on my laptop. I miss my 27" screen





No birds at this spot so I practised on pigeons. It locked onto the pigeon and held on quite well.

Click to expand...

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No time or attention given for negativity or trolls.

you need to shoot faster then 1/500 of a sec to get a sharp shot..more megs means you error are magnified

EJ Fudd said:

you need to shoot faster then 1/500 of a sec to get a sharp shot..

Click to expand...

Not always. I took a few shots yesterday at 1/40th and 1/60th, that were very sharp at 100%. Typically (out in the wild) I start out shooting faster, to make sure I get the shot, even if its a noisier, higher ISO shot. Then, if the bird gives me a little time, I slow down the shutter, and if it is just hanging out, I slow it down more and more. By the time I get to 1/60th, I don't expect very many to be sharp. But I only need 1 And if one hits at 1/60th, it will likely be WAY cleaner, than the shots at 1/500th, or higher

EJ Fudd said:

more megs means you error are magnified

Click to expand...

I simple cannot stand the shutter sound of the R7, reminds me so much of my old RP. I mostly just use the ES knowing full well the down falls that it has.

Perched birds are no issue for the R7 and ES but if I am shooting anything fast moving like BIF I just use my R3.

The light was junk but my wife got this shot of a Steller's jay yesterday using the R7 and the RF 100-400

Jonathan Thill said:

I simple cannot stand the shutter sound of the R7, reminds me so much of my old RP. I mostly just use the ES knowing full well the down falls that it has.

Perched birds are no issue for the R7 and ES but if I am shooting anything fast moving like BIF I just use my R3.

The light was junk but my wife got this shot of a Steller's jay yesterday using the R7 and the RF 100-400

Click to expand...

Nice shot of a beautiful bird though ! We have a few of these here in Nor Cal (mostly scrub jays) but I can never seem to get good shots of them ! One day

I hear you. Id use the R3 for BIF shots to, or my case, my R5

--
Photos are my paintings. The camera is my brush.
Website
www.LightInEveryCorner.com
DPreview gallery; http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/5075216809
No time or attention given for negativity or trolls.

EJ Fudd said:

you need to shoot faster then 1/500 of a sec to get a sharp shot..more megs means you error are magnified

Click to expand...

Oh, but if you mean to get sharper shots from the R7 without shutter shock, yes ! I believe it would take at least 1/500th...

CamerEyes said:

Chris Wolfgram said:

First off, I love my R5 ! But I had several reasons to rent and try the R7. 1) I really wanted to have a backup camera. 2) the R7 gives me so much more reach, with the same lenses, and 3) at $1500, the R7 seems like a super good value.

So anyway, I took it out in the backyard yesterday for some initial test shooting, and for the first 160 or so shots, I was using mechanical shutter, and geez ! That thing sounded horrendous ! Like I was whacking a spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet ! And I could feel it through the grip too ! It's no wonder most of those first 160 shots were soft.

Is this normal ? Or is the mechanical shutter in this copy malfunctioning?

I dunno... But if Canon can't do any better than that, they should have just left the MS out of the R7... Heck I shot as fast as 1/500th, and not even those were sharp !

So I switched over to electronic shutter, with the volume set at the lowest setting... Awe SO much nicer sounding, and of course zero shutter shock Immediately I started getting nearly all sharp shots.... I even managed some sharp shots at 1/40 and 1/60th.

Oh I was shooting at 1280mm, F11

So I ended up taking about 1300 shots... Not the best lighting, and not paying any attention to the BG.

But this morning, I started a couple hours earlier, had great low light right behind me, and paid attention to my BG, and I think I actually got a few pretty nice, aesthetic bird shots

I will post a few of those tomorrow if anyone cares.

Took about 2000 shots today.

So yes, I've pretty much already decided I'm going to buy this camera.

Click to expand...

I have the R7 and the R6Mii. Yes, the R7 shutter sound is loud as hell - it's almost like screaming to us - "Go EFCS or ES, damn it!"

Click to expand...

This made me finally try comparing the shutter sounds on my 5D mk IV and R7. To be honest, I haven't really perceived the R7's shutter as being particularly loud personally (I have used it all the time in the EFCS mode, since I haven't been concerned about bokeh).

Without actually recording and comparing audio files and taking single shots only, the loudest sound seemed to come from the 5D mk IV in the regular shutter mode, followed by the R7 mechanical shutter mode, 5D mk IV's slower mechanical shutter mode and R7 EFCS seemed to be pretty close to each other.

However, I have no experience what e.g. R5 sounds like compared to these two, so it may just be that I'm used to an another loud camera

Mika Y. said:

CamerEyes said:

Chris Wolfgram said:

First off, I love my R5 ! But I had several reasons to rent and try the R7. 1) I really wanted to have a backup camera. 2) the R7 gives me so much more reach, with the same lenses, and 3) at $1500, the R7 seems like a super good value.

So anyway, I took it out in the backyard yesterday for some initial test shooting, and for the first 160 or so shots, I was using mechanical shutter, and geez ! That thing sounded horrendous ! Like I was whacking a spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet ! And I could feel it through the grip too ! It's no wonder most of those first 160 shots were soft.

Is this normal ? Or is the mechanical shutter in this copy malfunctioning?

I dunno... But if Canon can't do any better than that, they should have just left the MS out of the R7... Heck I shot as fast as 1/500th, and not even those were sharp !

So I switched over to electronic shutter, with the volume set at the lowest setting... Awe SO much nicer sounding, and of course zero shutter shock Immediately I started getting nearly all sharp shots.... I even managed some sharp shots at 1/40 and 1/60th.

Oh I was shooting at 1280mm, F11

So I ended up taking about 1300 shots... Not the best lighting, and not paying any attention to the BG.

But this morning, I started a couple hours earlier, had great low light right behind me, and paid attention to my BG, and I think I actually got a few pretty nice, aesthetic bird shots

I will post a few of those tomorrow if anyone cares.

Took about 2000 shots today.

So yes, I've pretty much already decided I'm going to buy this camera.

Click to expand...

I have the R7 and the R6Mii. Yes, the R7 shutter sound is loud as hell - it's almost like screaming to us - "Go EFCS or ES, damn it!"

Click to expand...

This made me finally try comparing the shutter sounds on my 5D mk IV and R7. To be honest, I haven't really perceived the R7's shutter as being particularly loud personally (I have used it all the time in the EFCS mode, since I haven't been concerned about bokeh).

Without actually recording and comparing audio files and taking single shots only, the loudest sound seemed to come from the 5D mk IV in the regular shutter mode, followed by the R7 mechanical shutter mode, 5D mk IV's slower mechanical shutter mode and R7 EFCS seemed to be pretty close to each other.

However, I have no experience what e.g. R5 sounds like compared to these two, so it may just be that I'm used to an another loud camera

Click to expand...

I have also not noticed that the R7 shutter is particularly loud. But I use it in EFCS or e-shutter, and never in full mechanical. Maybe I should try out full mechanical, just to see if it really is louder. From what I've read, the only reason to use full mechanical over EFCS is if you are shooting a very fast lens (F1.4 or faster) at a very fast shutter speed to prevent the possibility of some strange bokeh. And even then, whether you get that strange bokeh depends crucially on the background. In those situations, you could just use e-shutter. So there really is no need to use full mechanical, pretty much ever. Comparing my R7 in EFCS with my R in the same mode, I don't think the R7 is louder, but the sound is definitely different.

Chris Wolfgram said:

EJ Fudd said:

you need to shoot faster then 1/500 of a sec to get a sharp shot..more megs means you error are magnified

Click to expand...

Oh, but if you mean to get sharper shots from the R7 without shutter shock, yes ! I believe it would take at least 1/500th...

Click to expand...

I have yet to experience shutter shock with my R7. I am usually shooting in e-shutter or EFCS at speeds of 1/500 or faster, so I wouldn't expect to see it, but I did try to induce shutter shock, just to see if I could. I shot the same scene at 1/60 in all three modes, and all three were tack sharp. It might depend on the lens, of course. I was using the RF 35 for that test, so maybe that lens just isn't as susceptible to shutter shock as other lenses? I did take quite a few with the RF 70-200 F2.8 in EFCS at 8fps, with speeds mostly at 1/500, but a few dipping down to 1/400 or even 1/200 (hitting the top ISO of 25,600). No sign of shutter shock there either. I have read reports of shutter shock with EFCS at 15fps, but perhaps 8fps is slow enough to avoid it, even with lenses susceptible to it?

Jonathan Thill said:

I simple cannot stand the shutter sound of the R7, reminds me so much of my old RP. I mostly just use the ES knowing full well the down falls that it has.

Perched birds are no issue for the R7 and ES but if I am shooting anything fast moving like BIF I just use my R3.

The light was junk but my wife got this shot of a Steller's jay yesterday using the R7 and the RF 100-400

Click to expand...

Nice capture - and RAW and DxO Deep Prime I think could make it look very nice even zoomed in?

KevinRA said:

Jonathan Thill said:

I simple cannot stand the shutter sound of the R7, reminds me so much of my old RP. I mostly just use the ES knowing full well the down falls that it has.

Perched birds are no issue for the R7 and ES but if I am shooting anything fast moving like BIF I just use my R3.

The light was junk but my wife got this shot of a Steller's jay yesterday using the R7 and the RF 100-400

Click to expand...

Nice capture - and RAW and DxO Deep Prime I think could make it look very nice even zoomed in?

Click to expand...

Thanks, this was just a quick edit. Not the biggest fan of DxO

I tend to stick to LRc and Photoshop (luminosity masks and linear camera profiles ftw). If I have to I will use Topaz but I do not mind a little grain in my images for personal use.

Cheers

Zeee said:

All those were taken with EFCS. I have yet to test ES. Never used it on my R5.

Click to expand...

You'll quickly realize that the ES is not good for fast moving subjects.

"Fast-moving subjects may look distorted..." is exactly what comes up when you select Electronic in Shutter mode.

Sometimes you can get a great shot, but there will be many shots with rolling shutter/distortion. I rarely use Electrionc shutter. The Mechanical shutter seems to be the best mode to freeze motion. Electronic-first curtain works well but I think the better quality image is captured via mechanical.

The slower than the R5 read-out speed of the R7 affects two of the coolest features the R7 has,

• 30 frames per second stills shooting of moving subjects and...
• RAW Burst mode Pre-Shooting.

Below are photos I shot using Raw Burst Pre-Shooting, which relies on the Electronic Shutter:


Eastern Bluebird


Eastern Bluebird


American Goldfinch flying away

Pre-shootijng can be problematic but when it works, it works.






Ruby-crowned Kinglet leaping at an insect. Captured with R7 Raw Burst Pre-Shoot


GULP!!!... Ruby-crowned following previous photo of the same Pre-shoot series.


Yellow-rumped Warbler leaping at an insect. Photographed using Pre-shoot on R7



Even slight movement on the users part can be seen in the photos while using the E-shutter that includes static objects/subjects. it will look like a slight shift of part of the image, as if some one took a knife and sliced the image and moved one part of the image by two or several pixels.

While I'm impressed with the R7, I am disappointed that Canon would tout 30 frames per second for a crop sensor, which a lot of wildlife shooters will buy (including those with full-frame R5 already) and the readout speed of this smaller sensor cannot keep up with R5. It makes the E-shutter almost useless for what people want most out of the R7.

Do an outing and shoot only Electronic, and you'll quickly return to Mechanical or shoot E-Shutter on the R5.

--
Composition > Megapixels