Regarding the Olympus Hi-Res (50mp) mode

Shashinka73 · Jan 6, 2023

I was idly curious about whether the 50MP RAW files created by the hand-held Hi-Res mode on cameras like the OMD EM1X are comparable to single shot files produced by cameras with (around) 50MP (so that's things like the Canon 5DS, Sony A7R 3 and 4/5, Hasselblad X1D series, Fuji GFX 50, etc).

I would assume that the larger sensor cameras have more inherent dynamic range, and obviously have more "native" resolution, but if the Olympus Hi-Res mode can get in that general ballpark with its clever tricks, then that's quite an achievement. I've been debating picking up a used OMD EMI1X as a) I've always enjoyed shooting Olympus, and b) I have some old manual focus Canon glass which I can easily adapt to it; one is a beater 500mm lens which gives me insane compression on the odd occasion I've used it.

(I literally never shoot with a tripod, so I've left the 80MP mode out of the issue).

Don't need onanistic statistics and charts, but anyone who has compared these and can give a general impression?

Tom Axford · Jan 6, 2023

Shashinka73 said:
I would assume that the larger sensor cameras have more inherent dynamic range,

Taking several separate shots and merging them together, as is done in HR mode, does increase dynamic range and reduce noise. This is visible in comparison with single shots taken with the same camera.

In fact, I see this as a significant advantage of HR mode, just as important as the increased number of pixels.

Mait · Jan 7, 2023

I would also like to see side by side images with hrr 50mpix and actual 50mpix sensor.

I cant quite get it. If i nail focus on a standard 20mpix image then 100% crop is clear and sharp... if i nail the focus in 50mpix camera with good lens then the 100% crop should also be sharp ?

Not the case with hrr, it is soft.

finnan haddie · Jan 7, 2023

Shashinka73 said:
I was idly curious about whether the 50MP RAW files created by the hand-held Hi-Res mode on cameras like the OMD EM1X are comparable to single shot files produced by cameras with (around) 50MP (so that's things like the Canon 5DS, Sony A7R 3 and 4/5, Hasselblad X1D series, Fuji GFX 50, etc).

I would assume that the larger sensor cameras have more inherent dynamic range, and obviously have more "native" resolution, but if the Olympus Hi-Res mode can get in that general ballpark with its clever tricks, then that's quite an achievement. I've been debating picking up a used OMD EMI1X as a) I've always enjoyed shooting Olympus, and b) I have some old manual focus Canon glass which I can easily adapt to it; one is a beater 500mm lens which gives me insane compression on the odd occasion I've used it.

(I literally never shoot with a tripod, so I've left the 80MP mode out of the issue).

Don't need onanistic statistics and charts, but anyone who has compared these and can give a general impression?

A7R 3/4, X1D, GFX50: disappointing stabilisation when shooting handheld in low light without flash.
I much prefer EM1X/GH6/OM1.

Oly HHHR: only suitable for non-moving subjects. Even a little wind, rattling leaves, will show artefacts.
Panasonic GH6 has less issues with moving subjects, and does 100 MP HHHR shots.

Shashinka73 said:
Don't need onanistic statistics

Then why are you asking for more MP?
(Cheapest 60 MP camera: Sigma fp L)

River Photography · Jan 7, 2023

sent a PM

Rp

bclaff · Jan 7, 2023

Tom Axford said:
Shashinka73 said:

I would assume that the larger sensor cameras have more inherent dynamic range,

Click to expand...

Taking several separate shots and merging them together, as is done in HR mode, does increase dynamic range and reduce noise. This is visible in comparison with single shots taken with the same camera.

In fact, I see this as a significant advantage of HR mode, just as important as the increased number of pixels.

Regarding PDR :

d44344ce8ca24f948750b49f57c5cca1.jpg.png

--
Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

Regor250 · Jan 7, 2023

Since you asked, first hit on Google https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66620575

4th hit on Google

--
Roger

SrMi · Jan 7, 2023

Mait said:
I would also like to see side by side images with hrr 50mpix and actual 50mpix sensor.

I cant quite get it. If i nail focus on a standard 20mpix image then 100% crop is clear and sharp... if i nail the focus in 50mpix camera with good lens then the 100% crop should also be sharp ?

Not the case with hrr, it is soft.

HHHR (raw) is expected to be softer than a single shot and requires additional sharpening. HHHR (raw) can handle more sharpening than a single shot. The final result is what matters with raw, not the initial look.

Caledonia · Jan 7, 2023

This very-popular thread on the topic may be of interest: Hand-Held High Res: A Practical Guide

David · Jan 7, 2023

Shashinka73 said:
I was idly curious about whether the 50MP RAW files created by the hand-held Hi-Res mode on cameras like the OMD EM1X are comparable to single shot files produced by cameras with (around) 50MP (so that's things like the Canon 5DS, Sony A7R 3 and 4/5, Hasselblad X1D series, Fuji GFX 50, etc).

I would assume that the larger sensor cameras have more inherent dynamic range, and obviously have more "native" resolution, but if the Olympus Hi-Res mode can get in that general ballpark with its clever tricks, then that's quite an achievement. I've been debating picking up a used OMD EMI1X as a) I've always enjoyed shooting Olympus, and b) I have some old manual focus Canon glass which I can easily adapt to it; one is a beater 500mm lens which gives me insane compression on the odd occasion I've used it.

(I literally never shoot with a tripod, so I've left the 80MP mode out of the issue).

Don't need onanistic statistics and charts, but anyone who has compared these and can give a general impression?

I use the Olympus Hi-Res mode on both my E-M5 Mark II (tripod) and my E-M1X (handheld) often and the files do exhibit more detail and better shadows. However, it is susceptible to subject motion and shows it as artifacts. It's a hit and miss depending on the subject matter. But since I do quite a bit of landscape and urban scape myself and as long as the subject is still, no wind or strong winds, the results are quite stunning. But it doesn't replace a true high megapixel camera like the A7Rx or the Fuji GFX50. Also, the larger format sensor do have better tonal range (the tonal transitions are smoother) on the bigger formats such as the GFX 50 that my friend owns. Comparing my 40MP and 50MP Olympus files against hers, I could see that her GFX files seemed to have a smoother tonal transition and a better representation of skin tones than my Olympus Hi-res files.

Still, I'm not complaining.

Bassam Guy · Jan 7, 2023

Shashinka73 said:
I was idly curious about whether the 50MP RAW files created by the hand-held Hi-Res mode on cameras like the OMD EM1X are comparable to single shot files produced by cameras with (around) 50MP (so that's things like the Canon 5DS, Sony A7R 3 and 4/5, Hasselblad X1D series, Fuji GFX 50, etc).

I would assume that the larger sensor cameras have more inherent dynamic range, and obviously have more "native" resolution,

Actually, it is the opposite. One of the features of [HH]HR is that there is no Bayer filtering, so each and every Red, Green, Blue value in each pixel is true rather than averaged, and thus more "native" than calculated values.

This is described here: https://chriseyrewalker.com/the-hi-res-mode-of-the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-mark-ii/

Shashinka73 said:
but if the Olympus Hi-Res mode can get in that general ballpark with its clever tricks, then that's quite an achievement. I've been debating picking up a used OMD EMI1X as a) I've always enjoyed shooting Olympus, and b) I have some old manual focus Canon glass which I can easily adapt to it; one is a beater 500mm lens which gives me insane compression on the odd occasion I've used it.

(I literally never shoot with a tripod, so I've left the 80MP mode out of the issue).

Don't need onanistic statistics and charts, but anyone who has compared these and can give a general impression?

Oh, whoops, I don't qualify. Ignore me :-(

EZGritz · Jan 7, 2023

If you can go for an OM-1 HHHR mode is much faster and not limited in ISO. The M1X HHHR mode limits the ISO to I think 3200, maybe 1600. Someone who has one can tell you.

OM-1 images at ISO 12,000 are pretty good. In HHHR mode it gives you more capability for lower light and higher shutter speeds. And the body is a lot smaller and lighter if that's important to you.

ahaslett · Jan 7, 2023

Bassam Guy said:
Shashinka73 said:

I was idly curious about whether the 50MP RAW files created by the hand-held Hi-Res mode on cameras like the OMD EM1X are comparable to single shot files produced by cameras with (around) 50MP (so that's things like the Canon 5DS, Sony A7R 3 and 4/5, Hasselblad X1D series, Fuji GFX 50, etc).

I would assume that the larger sensor cameras have more inherent dynamic range, and obviously have more "native" resolution,

Click to expand...

Actually, it is the opposite. One of the features of [HH]HR is that there is no Bayer filtering, so each and every Red, Green, Blue value in each pixel is true rather than averaged, and thus more "native" than calculated values.

This is described here: https://chriseyrewalker.com/the-hi-res-mode-of-the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-mark-ii/

Bassam Guy said:

but if the Olympus Hi-Res mode can get in that general ballpark with its clever tricks, then that's quite an achievement. I've been debating picking up a used OMD EMI1X as a) I've always enjoyed shooting Olympus, and b) I have some old manual focus Canon glass which I can easily adapt to it; one is a beater 500mm lens which gives me insane compression on the odd occasion I've used it.

(I literally never shoot with a tripod, so I've left the 80MP mode out of the issue).

Don't need onanistic statistics and charts, but anyone who has compared these and can give a general impression?

Click to expand...

Oh, whoops, I don't qualify. Ignore me :-(

The link is about pixel shift. Handheld high-resolution is something different.

Andrew

400trix · Jan 7, 2023

Mait said:
I would also like to see side by side images with hrr 50mpix and actual 50mpix sensor.

I cant quite get it. If i nail focus on a standard 20mpix image then 100% crop is clear and sharp... if i nail the focus in 50mpix camera with good lens then the 100% crop should also be sharp ?

Not the case with hrr, it is soft.

Bill didn't put the HR results in the PDR tables, but here are graphs for the E-M1X in hand-held and tripod mode, and a separate graph for the A7RM5.

Looks like the PDR for HiRes is close enough to not matter at low ISO, and is significantly better at higher ISO. Subject to limitations, of course. This makes sense, because the OMDS cameras are using 8-16 exposures to generate the image, so they're getting 2-4x the total light (which is what determines DR) at a given EV. Now to make everything stand still so you can get the darned photo!

--
Archer in Boulder
God loves the noise just as much as the signal.

bclaff · Jan 7, 2023

400trix said:
400trix wrote:

...
Bill didn't put the HR results in the PDR tables,...

Modes that use multiple frames are intentionally segregated into the Special Edition charts at PhotonsToPhotos.

bluevellet · Jan 7, 2023

I think (HH)HR is a great way to improve noise levels, details and dynamic range. It's a neat shortcut (one of many with Olympus) to get your pics just that extra wow factor.

But I prefer the look of photos from high-res FF cameras, to be honest. They look better with less hassle.

EZGritz · Jan 7, 2023

You can use the 25MP mode to reduce noise without the need to handle gigantic files. Yes, a 50mm sensor can make a better image.

Jim Vincent · Jan 7, 2023

Not mine - check out the ones linked by MEDISN to his post reply

SrMi · Jan 7, 2023

bluevellet said:
I think (HH)HR is a great way to improve noise levels, details and dynamic range. It's a neat shortcut (one of many with Olympus) to get your pics just that extra wow factor.

But I prefer the look of photos from high-res FF cameras, to be honest. They look better with less hassle.

(HH)HR also significantly reduces moire (false colors).

JakeJY · Jan 7, 2023

SrMi said:
Mait said:

I would also like to see side by side images with hrr 50mpix and actual 50mpix sensor.

I cant quite get it. If i nail focus on a standard 20mpix image then 100% crop is clear and sharp... if i nail the focus in 50mpix camera with good lens then the 100% crop should also be sharp ?

Not the case with hrr, it is soft.

Click to expand...

HHHR (raw) is expected to be softer than a single shot and requires additional sharpening. HHHR (raw) can handle more sharpening than a single shot. The final result is what matters with raw, not the initial look.

I have read that too that it stands up to significantly more sharpening than the standard RAW file, but I would point out also that the things being compared are different when both are at 100%.

Basically the 50MP image is proportionally magnified on the screen vs the 20MP one, so that will affect how sharp it looks (if both are shown in the same magnification and sampled appropriately, then there likely wouldn't be that much difference in perceived sharpness). This is an issue with a lot of similar comparisons.

Regarding the Olympus Hi-Res (50mp) mode

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