Birders, do you love the R7???

Robert Krawitz said:

Robert Krawitz said:

One little annoyance is that minimum shutter speed (page 183 of the English advanced manual) can only be set in full stops; on the 7DII, IIRC, it can be set in 1/3 stops. 1/2000 is a bit too short, particularly late in the day, but 1/1000 is a bit slower than I'd like.

Click to expand...

I checked my 7DII, and it also can only be set in full stops also. So it hasn't been dumbed down or anything. Saturday will be sunny, maybe I'll try a 1/2000 minimum shutter speed.

The R7's AF setup, dual cards, 3 custom settings, and that resemble those more of the 7D than the 90D. While the dual cards are SD rather than CF (which really isn't very interesting any more) or CF Express (which would make sense), UHS-ii cards are much faster than any old-style CF, and the dual card option is something the 90D very definitely does not have.

Since I don't use a battery grip, the lack of it doesn't affect me, although I can certainly understand why one might want it. The battery life isn't quite as good as the 7DII, but it's very usable for sports shooting. I did get 3600 frames with 2 bars left at a soccer game last weekend, but it probably didn't have a lot of life left (I had a double header with a football game -- only shot about 1600 frames at that one, but had only two bars left there too, and I had three batteries total).

Click to expand...

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

BirdShooter7 said:

Robert Krawitz said:

Robert Krawitz said:

One little annoyance is that minimum shutter speed (page 183 of the English advanced manual) can only be set in full stops; on the 7DII, IIRC, it can be set in 1/3 stops. 1/2000 is a bit too short, particularly late in the day, but 1/1000 is a bit slower than I'd like.

Click to expand...

I checked my 7DII, and it also can only be set in full stops also. So it hasn't been dumbed down or anything. Saturday will be sunny, maybe I'll try a 1/2000 minimum shutter speed.

The R7's AF setup, dual cards, 3 custom settings, and that resemble those more of the 7D than the 90D. While the dual cards are SD rather than CF (which really isn't very interesting any more) or CF Express (which would make sense), UHS-ii cards are much faster than any old-style CF, and the dual card option is something the 90D very definitely does not have.

Since I don't use a battery grip, the lack of it doesn't affect me, although I can certainly understand why one might want it. The battery life isn't quite as good as the 7DII, but it's very usable for sports shooting. I did get 3600 frames with 2 bars left at a soccer game last weekend, but it probably didn't have a lot of life left (I had a double header with a football game -- only shot about 1600 frames at that one, but had only two bars left there too, and I had three batteries total).

Click to expand...

I personally don’t see what the point is of this debate. The R7 is what it is. It’s not like Canon is going to change it if we complain.

Click to expand...

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Fishchris said:

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Hello Andrew. I'm actually glad to be reminded of the shutter shock issue with the R7. I've actually seen this mentioned a few times already.

I own the R5 but I'm thinking about first renting, then maybe buying the R7 for a backup.

So contemplating what has been said about the shutter shock, I'm thinking for anything moving, maybe even moving fast, like a Hummingbird's wings In Flight, I'm going to be shooting at at least 1/1500th, or maybe faster. So the mechanical shutter should be fine.

For anything slower (most of my shooting, small perched birds) I can use electronic shutter... And with the R7, I can even set it to make the shutter sound (which I can't with my R5)

I didn't know that. Certainly useful because I borrowed an R5 and found myself saying to the owner - how do i know if I've taken a shot? I've only used an ES on a Sony RX10 before.

Click to expand...

Alastair Norcross said:

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Wow, that's tough. It must be really galling for you to read about all the people who are getting great birding results with their R7's, and you have the bad luck to get one that doesn't work as well as everyone else's. You must be pretty unlucky having the only R7 that has shutter shock in EFCS on slow burst rates. It looks like you also have one that gets stuck in unnecessarily high frame rates for perched birds and can't be switched to e-shutter for perched birds either. And that wandering focus thing with perched birds? I'm certainly glad that my R7 doesn't do that, but I'm sorry that you're stuck with one that does. Did you break a mirror some time in the last seven years?

Click to expand...

Dave C 150 said:

Alastair Norcross said:

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Wow, that's tough. It must be really galling for you to read about all the people who are getting great birding results with their R7's, and you have the bad luck to get one that doesn't work as well as everyone else's. You must be pretty unlucky having the only R7 that has shutter shock in EFCS on slow burst rates. It looks like you also have one that gets stuck in unnecessarily high frame rates for perched birds and can't be switched to e-shutter for perched birds either. And that wandering focus thing with perched birds? I'm certainly glad that my R7 doesn't do that, but I'm sorry that you're stuck with one that does. Did you break a mirror some time in the last seven years?

Click to expand...

Not sure the sarcasm was quite warranted but did make me smile. But you have said what I imagine a few people were thinking. I was thinking, blimey, have Canon R&D not even taken a photo with this camera before they stake their reputation on it!

Click to expand...

Dave C 150 said:

Hmm, this is a bit worrying for me while i wait for mine to arrive. On the other hand I have mentioned it to other R7 users and they don't seem aware of any of this. One asked what "rolling shutter" was! I suspect these issues exist but not often enough to bother most people. Also how do you go about measuring shutter shock to differentiate it from subject movement, imprecise IBIS or too slow shutter speed? Just interested.

Click to expand...

Dave C 150 said:

Fishchris said:

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Hello Andrew. I'm actually glad to be reminded of the shutter shock issue with the R7. I've actually seen this mentioned a few times already.

I own the R5 but I'm thinking about first renting, then maybe buying the R7 for a backup.

So contemplating what has been said about the shutter shock, I'm thinking for anything moving, maybe even moving fast, like a Hummingbird's wings In Flight, I'm going to be shooting at at least 1/1500th, or maybe faster. So the mechanical shutter should be fine.

For anything slower (most of my shooting, small perched birds) I can use electronic shutter... And with the R7, I can even set it to make the shutter sound (which I can't with my R5)

I didn't know that. Certainly useful because I borrowed an R5 and found myself saying to the owner - how do i know if I've taken a shot? I've only used an ES on a Sony RX10 before.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Dave C 150 said:

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Hmm, this is a bit worrying for me while i wait for mine to arrive.

Click to expand...

Dave C 150 said:

On the other hand I have mentioned it to other R7 users and they don't seem aware of any of this. One asked what "rolling shutter" was! I suspect these issues exist but not often enough to bother most people. Also how do you go about measuring shutter shock to differentiate it from subject movement, imprecise IBIS or too slow shutter speed? Just interested.

Click to expand...

Dave C 150 said:

Alastair Norcross said:

axlotl said:

T Nels said:

Been a Canon shooter a long time. In recent years I’ve shot with the 7DII, 80D, and 5DIV coupled mostly with the 100-400L II or 400 DO II.
Then came the R5 and a short time later the RF 100-500. I birded happily with that combo for over a year but as expected, had to do extensive cropping.
A couple months ago I was lucky to pick up an R7 body at a local camera shop. Since then, my other gear is getting a rest. The R7 provides superb detail and works great with the RF 100-500. The button/dial lay out on the back only took a few days to get used to. I find the combo to be a light weight, nimble and powerful photographic tool.
When I think back to my Minolta SRT 101, I cannot believe the technological advances!
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Wow, that's tough. It must be really galling for you to read about all the people who are getting great birding results with their R7's, and you have the bad luck to get one that doesn't work as well as everyone else's. You must be pretty unlucky having the only R7 that has shutter shock in EFCS on slow burst rates. It looks like you also have one that gets stuck in unnecessarily high frame rates for perched birds and can't be switched to e-shutter for perched birds either. And that wandering focus thing with perched birds? I'm certainly glad that my R7 doesn't do that, but I'm sorry that you're stuck with one that does. Did you break a mirror some time in the last seven years?

Click to expand...

Not sure the sarcasm was quite warranted but did make me smile.

Click to expand...

Dave C 150 said:

But you have said what I imagine a few people were thinking. I was thinking, blimey, have Canon R&D not even taken a photo with this camera before they stake their reputation on it!

Click to expand...

John Sheehy said:

Zeee said:

R2D2 said:

Agree with these. R5 remains my birding body.

Click to expand...

Interesting.

Click to expand...

He said the other day that he mainly uses a zoom lens inside its working range, and it is true that this gives better IQ with a FF, especially one with more total pixels, but if IIRC he has also stated that the R7 is noisier than the R5 when focal-length-limited, and that just isn't true and can't be demonstrated with a proper comparison. No one who makes that claim every offers any controlled comparisons; they go by "real world" where there is plenty of room for illusions of scale, confounders, and chance.

Click to expand...

John Sheehy said:

"R2D2 wrote:

As far as noise is concerned, it's only those who would (unreasonably) expect FF noise levels who would be disappointed IMO.

If you're cropping anyway, you actually come out ahead.

...You have to go into it with the understanding that there is an entirely new set of challenges with mirrorless.

Fortunately there are a large number of folks ahead of you who have it figured out already, and would be glad to help (say if you were to ask in the right manner :-D ).

Good luck with your quest. Holler back with any questions.

R2

ps. I like to point folks to an earlier thread that highlights the action shooting abilities of the R7...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4668613 "

Click to expand...

axlotl said:

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

Click to expand...

R2D2 said:

axlotl said:

Do I like the R7 for bird photography----NO

First problem--The undamped mechanical shutter. This is OK with single shot drive mode if EFCS is used. But with H+, H or even sometimes with medium speed drive mode shutter shock starts to rear its ugly head. Not on every shot but enough to cause me to lose confidence in the camera. The problem can be reduced if a fast shutter speed is used, there is no magic number but faster than 1/500 is usually OK on my tests. This is OK for BIF but not for perched birds where I often want a slower shutter speed.

Second problem-- huge distortion ("rolling shutter effect" ) with camera or subject movement when the electronic shutter is used. This is especially obvious with the wings of little birds which flap very fast.

Third problem-- This one is a bit more subtle but has been reported and discussed on this forum. This is wandering focus when using AF Servo even when the subject is fairly still, such as a perched bird.

The R5 does not have these problems. I just select EFCS and leave it on for everything.

Maybe some might think it unfair to compare a camera (R7)with one costing more than twice as much (R5) and I take that point.

However if Canon would release a version of the R7 with a damped shutter like that on the R5 (and I think the R6) this would make it a much more appealing proposition. Yes it would cost a bit more, so be it.

Andrew

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It was a loaded question and the OP worded it in such a manner as to evince a certain type of response (and corresponding reactions to said responses ;-) ). This approach was useful to the OP (and others in the hunt) to hear from owners who actually do love the R7 for birding. And there are indeed a goodly number who do love the R7 for birding, and we've seen quite a few posts and (excellent) examples that back this up.

OTOH there are others (such as yourself) who do not love the R7 for birding, and have found its particular capabilities/spec to be too limiting to give the R7 a "love" rating.

IMHO these responses are just as valuable, and should be given an equal ear by the OP and others (even if negative responses were discouraged by the slant in the OP). I'm of the opinion that our best and most useful discussions here are often the most strongly debated ones! :-D

Everyone needs to do these evaluations for themselves, based on what and how they shoot, and what their other options are. You and I are fortunate enough to have another option, and (IME) like you, the R5 turns out to be a much better fit for me and how I like to shoot my birds. It doesn't mean the R7 can't do well (or do well enough to be loved even!). Our love just follows a different path.

Happy shooting all!

R2

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R2D2 said:

There's a very small window where the R7 will out-perform the R5 in focal length limited situations. When you're cropping less than that threshold, then the R5 pulls ahead.

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