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About: Personal wealth and photography

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ronscuba said:
robgendreau said:
I don't know if I'm seeing things, but there does seem to be a twinge of defensiveness in some of the posts, a desire to justify what I think is an expensive hobby at the level it's practiced by many here. But here is older and while not necessarily rich, set enough that a priority hobby works for them. No need to explain.

And don't view photography as a hobby with having the stuff regularly hyped here. Bazillions of people, especially younger folks of less means, put just as much time and effort, if not as much money, into their photography and videography efforts. And I mean beyond just casual social media posting. That's where you'll find the majority of budget conscious photographers.
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I see a bit of attitude on both sides and both are very annoying. It is more about those particular people than anything else. Snobbery by some who own high cost gear and jealous envy by some who only own lower cost gear.

I think the defensiveness kicks in if you have been called out.
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Good point.

I do a lot of car stuff, and it's a mix of people who can afford hired hands at the track and pro drivers to folks who are combing the junkyards for parts. There seems to be more acceptance there of the range of incomes from the fortunate to the more needy. Be nice to see more of that here. The answer to every problem here isn't just "buy the best x" but at the same time don't begrudge those that can afford huge purchases for shooting tweety birds in the backyard their choices either.

That's maybe why I liked it when DPR did the "$100 Challenge" video here, or when they review old junk. A site like this has to skew to the new and pricey, so nice to step back and remind folks there is still good gear in the bargain bin.
 
robgendreau said:
ronscuba said:
robgendreau said:
I don't know if I'm seeing things, but there does seem to be a twinge of defensiveness in some of the posts, a desire to justify what I think is an expensive hobby at the level it's practiced by many here. But here is older and while not necessarily rich, set enough that a priority hobby works for them. No need to explain.

And don't view photography as a hobby with having the stuff regularly hyped here. Bazillions of people, especially younger folks of less means, put just as much time and effort, if not as much money, into their photography and videography efforts. And I mean beyond just casual social media posting. That's where you'll find the majority of budget conscious photographers.
Click to expand...
I see a bit of attitude on both sides and both are very annoying. It is more about those particular people than anything else. Snobbery by some who own high cost gear and jealous envy by some who only own lower cost gear.

I think the defensiveness kicks in if you have been called out.
Click to expand...
Good point.

I do a lot of car stuff, and it's a mix of people who can afford hired hands at the track and pro drivers to folks who are combing the junkyards for parts. There seems to be more acceptance there of the range of incomes from the fortunate to the more needy. Be nice to see more of that here. The answer to every problem here isn't just "buy the best x" but at the same time don't begrudge those that can afford huge purchases for shooting tweety birds in the backyard their choices either.

That's maybe why I liked it when DPR did the "$100 Challenge" video here, or when they review old junk. A site like this has to skew to the new and pricey, so nice to step back and remind folks there is still good gear in the bargain bin.
Click to expand...
Surely it's a case of real disposable income & how entwined you are in any hobby.. L
 
sybersitizen said:
D Cox said:
sybersitizen said:
deednets said:
So has this become a rich-lister sport?
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No. Of course it's possible to spend a fortune on this (as it is with anything else), but plenty of nice photo gear is available that will fit comfortably into ordinary working class budgets.
Click to expand...
Working class budgets in which country ? And how about retired working class people living on state pensions ?
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So it comes down to establishing specific definitions (the favorite topic of Open Talk). If that's how we need to proceed, then define rich, define working class, and define inadequate income. Then, when all the definitions are agreed upon, the discussion can continue.

Or simply acknowledge that decent photographic tools are not limited to the 'rich-listers', whoever they are. To save everyone a lot of time, I'll just revise my statement like this:

No. Of course it's possible to spend a fortune on this (as it is with anything else), but plenty of nice photo gear is available that will fit comfortably into many ordinary working class budgets.

Or like this:

No. Of course it's possible to spend a fortune on this (as it is with anything else), but it's not necessary in order to have nice photo gear.

I assume you get the idea now.
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But, shouldn't you also have to define "a fortune" and even "comfortably"? :-)
 
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It's cheap compared to a lot of other hobbies, and can be really cheap if you don't have to have the latest and greatest.

Being wealthy isn't a prerequisite to being a photographer although wealthy people do partake.
 
Tuonov2 said:
Tim Reidy Productions said:
Digital Photography in General has gone up in price,
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No, if you look at the facts, it hasn't
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so where are the cameras that are much cheaper, especially the ones from 5 years ago. I recently bought a 300 USD m43 body, but I cannot tell you where to get the same one. Most items are going up in price, and I feel for the beginning photographers at the bottom. I am not in the beginning phase, and will spend, but I can see others just getting some gear to take a photography class not finding much low price retail items.
Tuonov2 said:
Tuonov2 said:
gone are the days of the 99 USD point and shoot.
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That's because everyone has one built in to their phone.
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deednets said:
I often notice how personally well off a lot of people seem to be within the dpreview fora.

Macbook Pro, iPhone 14 extra-large or - just recently - RAID systems with 12TB SSDs. A few Leicas, "should I get another A1- or should I get an A7IV" instead?

The new Fuji greeted with specification debates rather than a question as to where this is going. Price-wise.

So has this become a rich-lister sport?

I mean, surely you can get an A6000 or X-E3, Panasonic GX8/9? But maybe it is a bit too intimidating being around people who can afford a few A1s, Q2M plus a couple of M11s??

So what's going on?

Deed
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It's the self reporting effect. Like if you make a thread asking people what their salaries are, you'll get overrepresented responses from high earners. It's kind of an opportunity to brag.

And while someone may have an expensive kit today, that doesn't mean they bought it all at once out of the blue. I incrementally went from a NEX-C3 to an A7II, to an A7III, to an A7RII, sidestepped to an EOS R, and then came back to an A7III. My next camera body will probably be an A7IV that I will sell the A7III to help pay for. So while some people are just able to go buy a $xx,xxx camera kit I think the vast majority are people who have been shooting and upgrading for a long time.

I don't know if it's so much a rich man's game as much as it's a gear head's game. Smartphones cover 99% of regular people's needs. If you're buying a standalone camera in 2022 you are probably into the devices and tech or have some very specific photographic needs.
 
JasonTheBirder said:
deednets said:
I often notice how personally well off a lot of people seem to be within the dpreview fora.

Macbook Pro, iPhone 14 extra-large or - just recently - RAID systems with 12TB SSDs. A few Leicas, "should I get another A1- or should I get an A7IV" instead?

The new Fuji greeted with specification debates rather than a question as to where this is going. Price-wise.

So has this become a rich-lister sport?

I mean, surely you can get an A6000 or X-E3, Panasonic GX8/9? But maybe it is a bit too intimidating being around people who can afford a few A1s, Q2M plus a couple of M11s??
Click to expand...
What people buy is often very little related to wealth. Of course, some people on here are fairly well off (although I should add that very few people buy two A1's, even on here). However, it has a lot more to do with how people spend money: do they spend it right away on a bunch of small things or save up for something?

For example, would you consider someone who has a dog rich? Those cost at least $1000 per year, or about $5000 per 5 years -- enough to buy pretty much any camera that also lasts at least 5 years.
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This makes me laugh, and cry. I have two rescue dogs and I swear it would have been cheaper to have two human children instead ;-)
Member said:
What about someone who buys their lunch twice a week ($30 per week more than cooking yourself, for a very cheap lunch)? That's 1560 per year or 7800 over five years, which is more than the cost of an A1. I knew plenty of students who did that.

And don't even get me started at the cost of children....

Bottom line is that this board isn't a random sample. It collects people who already love photography. That will include a small proportion of rich people, but it also includes a large proportion of people who have made photography a priority over other things that aren't worth as much to them like eating out, pets, Netflix, etc.
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In Toronto where I live, a pack of cigarettes costs roughly $12. I gave up smoking many years ago (used to smoke a pack a day). I have no intention of buying more cameras, but I know that just the fact that I gave up smoking freed up enough leeway to buy one if I wanted to. All this to say that while cameras and other tech stuff might seem extravagant, there are sometimes worse ways to spend your money and buying nice cameras could mean that you passed on those worse ways and are not rich.
 
Ed B said:
sybersitizen said:
D Cox said:
sybersitizen said:
deednets said:
So has this become a rich-lister sport?
Click to expand...
No. Of course it's possible to spend a fortune on this (as it is with anything else), but plenty of nice photo gear is available that will fit comfortably into ordinary working class budgets.
Click to expand...
Working class budgets in which country ? And how about retired working class people living on state pensions ?
Click to expand...
So it comes down to establishing specific definitions (the favorite topic of Open Talk). If that's how we need to proceed, then define rich, define working class, and define inadequate income. Then, when all the definitions are agreed upon, the discussion can continue.

Or simply acknowledge that decent photographic tools are not limited to the 'rich-listers', whoever they are. To save everyone a lot of time, I'll just revise my statement like this:

No. Of course it's possible to spend a fortune on this (as it is with anything else), but plenty of nice photo gear is available that will fit comfortably into many ordinary working class budgets.

Or like this:

No. Of course it's possible to spend a fortune on this (as it is with anything else), but it's not necessary in order to have nice photo gear.

I assume you get the idea now.
Click to expand...
But, shouldn't you also have to define "a fortune" and even "comfortably"? :-)
Click to expand...
Indeed. Also 'nice' and probably 'ordinary'. Establishing all these definitions would likely take more than 150 posts, killing the thread before the actual question could be answered.
 
robgendreau said:
ronscuba said:
robgendreau said:
I don't know if I'm seeing things, but there does seem to be a twinge of defensiveness in some of the posts, a desire to justify what I think is an expensive hobby at the level it's practiced by many here. But here is older and while not necessarily rich, set enough that a priority hobby works for them. No need to explain.

And don't view photography as a hobby with having the stuff regularly hyped here. Bazillions of people, especially younger folks of less means, put just as much time and effort, if not as much money, into their photography and videography efforts. And I mean beyond just casual social media posting. That's where you'll find the majority of budget conscious photographers.
Click to expand...
I see a bit of attitude on both sides and both are very annoying. It is more about those particular people than anything else. Snobbery by some who own high cost gear and jealous envy by some who only own lower cost gear.

I think the defensiveness kicks in if you have been called out.
Click to expand...
Good point.

I do a lot of car stuff, and it's a mix of people who can afford hired hands at the track and pro drivers to folks who are combing the junkyards for parts. There seems to be more acceptance there of the range of incomes from the fortunate to the more needy. Be nice to see more of that here. The answer to every problem here isn't just "buy the best x" but at the same time don't begrudge those that can afford huge purchases for shooting tweety birds in the backyard their choices either.

That's maybe why I liked it when DPR did the "$100 Challenge" video here, or when they review old junk. A site like this has to skew to the new and pricey, so nice to step back and remind folks there is still good gear in the bargain bin.
Click to expand...
I generally think of my camera gear as tools. I have a mixture of expensive and inexpensive gear. I am guilty of being a little snarky when people put down less expensive items like 3rd party lenses or "lesser" brand lighting equipment.

It doesn't happen too often, but when it does, those interactions tend to stick in my mind.

I totally understand the attraction of certain brands and wanting the best, but in many instances, the high $ gear does not produce higher quality photos vs the lower cost alternative.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
There’s a large and we’ll represented contingent in here that is against the purchase of anything new, which is of course odd for a site dedicated to new gear.
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I have varied opinions on gear for used vs. new.

buying used gear is tougher on new users, because they may not to know what to look for, but after awhile, you will know to test your lenses. and gear as soon as you get it to make sure it works for you.

If you are going to use your gear often, then buying new equipment is more important than used especially bodies.

And sometimes it is necessary to buy used.

but you have to buy new doughnuts as the old ones get stale.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
There’s a large and we’ll represented contingent in here that is against the purchase of anything new, which is of course odd for a site dedicated to new gear.
Click to expand...
The site is basically an equipment site, but it's about much more than new gear.

I agree with you that many people who post here prefer to buy used rather than new, but considering the price of new cameras, and the fact that they don't really seem to improve, all that much, with the latest and greatest, buying used might be a good idea.
 
Ed B said:
Joe Bagadonuts said:
There’s a large and we’ll represented contingent in here that is against the purchase of anything new, which is of course odd for a site dedicated to new gear.
Click to expand...
The site is basically an equipment site, but it's about much more than new gear.

I agree with you that many people who post here prefer to buy used rather than new, but considering the price of new cameras, and the fact that they don't really seem to improve, all that much, with the latest and greatest, buying used might be a good idea.
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I always purchased new cameras & lenses, after buying the M-P240 Safari Set, the wifey said, wait a minute, why not try Used! Although my 90D was new (not really expensive) my current Leica's came from KEH & my 5Ds was a refurb via Canon.. All my current lenses purchased @ KEH.. Take from it what you will.. L
 
LeicaEye said:
Ed B said:
Joe Bagadonuts said:
There’s a large and we’ll represented contingent in here that is against the purchase of anything new, which is of course odd for a site dedicated to new gear.
Click to expand...
The site is basically an equipment site, but it's about much more than new gear.

I agree with you that many people who post here prefer to buy used rather than new, but considering the price of new cameras, and the fact that they don't really seem to improve, all that much, with the latest and greatest, buying used might be a good idea.
Click to expand...
I always purchased new cameras & lenses, after buying the M-P240 Safari Set, the wifey said, wait a minute, why not try Used! Although my 90D was new (not really expensive) my current Leica's came from KEH & my 5Ds was a refurb via Canon.. All my current lenses purchased @ KEH.. Take from it what you will.. L
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Yes, I've also bought equipment from KEH. They do an excellent job rating their cameras, and their six-month warranty is a good thing.
 
meow said:
The Torontonian said:
I have a Leica Q2, and a Sony A7R4 with a bunch of really expensive G Master lenses to go with it.

I'm not rich, hell, I'm probably just a little over the poverty line. But I've always liked nice tools, and so that's what I have. I saved for many years to get the things that I like to use, because it's worth it to me.

Having nice things is great! Not only is it a joy to use them, but the end results -beautiful pictures, makes it obviously worth while for me.

I get a lot of joy and satisfaction getting out and taking pictures, and having nice gear really increases the pleasure.

But I always try to remember a lesson I learned a long time ago: "Own your possessions, don't let them own you!"
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I'm in a similar situation. Low fixed income (poor health early in life). I don't have a bunch of Leicas, but I have nice gear. Well, I do actually own a Leica, but it's old and for film. :-)

I've learnt to skimp. I deal with the situation by prioritizing. I eat well, but try to buy good food cheap. I put money on three things above food and the necessary bills, when needed. My trike, my computer and my camera. All three means quality of life for me. To get around, to do things I enjoy.

I like to go out to pubs and restaurant, to travel and things like that as much as everyone else, but I basically don't do that anymore. I've sort of turned the expression "time is money" around. I put my money where it will buy me the most quality time. Going to the pub or the cinema buys me a few hours of fun. Buying new clothes that I don't necessarily need may make me feel good a while, but they are soon old and out of fashion. A new lens, while more expensive, will keep me busy for years. I can't do everything I would want, but I can do some of it. I rather go all the way with a few things than just nibble at everything.

That said, of course some people have a lot more money to spend than others. That may not be fair, but that's how it is. Life isn't fair. We have to make the best of the situation we are in. I've been on both sides. Yeah, it's more fun to have more money to spend, but one can still have fun even if money is scarce.
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I agree with these two responses from meow and torontonian. It is a matter of valuing our quality time to play "above average" gear to produce and enjoy "above average" result in more scenarios that can be covered optimally.
 
Of course here folk discuss the latest and greatest but that is exactly as folk do in every type of hobby related forum , no matter if it is a car or tennis or golf or whatever.

But just for fun, in Australia a packet a day smoker is now paying well over $10,000 a year (AUD) for that.

I can buy a lot of camera equipment for that sort of money.
 
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