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Canceling my R7 Preorder
- Thread starter Jesse Kramer
- Start date
Necip
Senior Member
Not quite I still haven't decided which way to go that was just an example. In it's day the 7dMkII was one of the best options the Nikon D500 couple of years later was way better it's been stuck there since. The R7 I was only getting preordered because I have lenses not because it was a better tool for the job. Everyone is so suspicious one has to pray to God Canon or you are sent out to the M4/3 wilderness and beyond.
If in the next few weeks a Z8 is announced I will be first in line. I guess my problem is I had great expectations but Canon these days seem to think only Full frame is for pro use.Enjoy your OM-1. I’m sure it has the “best in class” specs you crave. It will soothe you - for a while.
I wasn’t looking for the best camera specs on the market this week. Maybe that’s because I have a lot of EF and RF lenses. Clever of those Canon folks to make so many fine lenses.
I wanted an RF mount crop camera to replace my 90D. They said it would never happen! They were wrong! Canon gave me what I wanted, with a variety of nice extras even!
I wasn’t looking for the best camera specs on the market this week. Maybe that’s because I have a lot of EF and RF lenses. Clever of those Canon folks to make so many fine lenses.
I wanted an RF mount crop camera to replace my 90D. They said it would never happen! They were wrong! Canon gave me what I wanted, with a variety of nice extras even!
Canon forgot to put the 'pro' label on the R7, and that's what bothering a lot of these guys....when they launched the 7D Canon made them believe it was a 'pro' apsc camera so they loved it. AF system performance, low light IQ etc didn't matter, it was a pro camera!
The R7 is a much better camera than the 7Dii on all levels, and probably the best apsc camera ever made to this day, but it doesn't have a 'pro' sticker on it. This is a very big problem.
Necip
Senior Member
Yes you are right not only a stacked sensor better buffer 50/120 High speed fps stills, same pixel density as the R7 but without AA filter, high rez EVF 5MP, built in electronic ND filter, pixel shift handheld high rez mode 50MP or 80MP on tripod, live composite, live bulb, 240fps video, nicely spec'dYes, and I’m guessing that has a lot to do with the higher price point. I can’t speak for the Fuji as I’ve never seen one in person but the OM1 really does feel like a camera designed for professional photography.Do they? I dunno. Maybe that's why they cost so much more, but so what? My G7x Mk iii has a stacked sensor too.Both have stacked sensors don’t they?Hmmm. Neither the Fuji nor the OM seems like a spec beater relative to the R7, but the Fuji costs $1000 more and the OM costs $700 more, both for less. I suppose that will be attractive to some.Offcourse I don't like Canon's cripple culture
They should at least attempt to keep up with other brands similar segments first then cripple that model for lower cheaper models.
In this case R7 spec wise is not a patch on the XH2s or even the M4/3 OM-1 so it's already been crippled. So the R10 is a crippled cripple
I'm still going to get one and keep my 100-400mm MKII for it as a backup at least the focus isn't crippled which is an important reason to hold on. I did think about this when I preordered 25th May still waiting.
If rolling shutter isn’t important to you then that’s great news as you can save $1000 and get the R7.
Today I spoke to my dealer it seems Canon is sending them their first 1 camera but it's not for me there seems to be a guy before me who they say is priority he has a load of stuff the dealer is selling on 25% commission. Told them to keep the preorder if it ever comes I no longer want one anyway. I'm sure they will sell it. I am losing out on the free converter If I had gone to a bigger dealer would have had mine over a month ago.
At least I can forget about the wait now. I have two choices OM-1, XH2s or I could get the R5 but considering I don't want RF lenses might be a wrong move for such an investment.
Wondering why since your Canon R days are gone - you've not yet gone over to the forums of proper camera manufacturers yet ? And left us with our rubbish equipment (other than wealthy R3 owners I guess).
Necip
Senior Member
I'm not a pro this is just a hobby for me. I've been using Canon for over 20 yrs but there are people here with a lot of first hand experience, I've never considered or owned OM till recently while waiting for the R7 or even the Fuji. I'm open to constructive criticism with my thinking maybe I'm wrong. I'm not totally brand loyal I just want a better bird/wildlife camera.
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Maybe it’s your karma. Farewell!Yes you are right not only a stacked sensor better buffer 50/120 High speed fps stills, same pixel density as the R7 but without AA filter, high rez EVF 5MP, built in electronic ND filter, pixel shift handheld high rez mode 50MP or 80MP on tripod, live composite, live bulb, 240fps video, nicely spec'dYes, and I’m guessing that has a lot to do with the higher price point. I can’t speak for the Fuji as I’ve never seen one in person but the OM1 really does feel like a camera designed for professional photography.Do they? I dunno. Maybe that's why they cost so much more, but so what? My G7x Mk iii has a stacked sensor too.Both have stacked sensors don’t they?Hmmm. Neither the Fuji nor the OM seems like a spec beater relative to the R7, but the Fuji costs $1000 more and the OM costs $700 more, both for less. I suppose that will be attractive to some.Offcourse I don't like Canon's cripple culture
They should at least attempt to keep up with other brands similar segments first then cripple that model for lower cheaper models.
In this case R7 spec wise is not a patch on the XH2s or even the M4/3 OM-1 so it's already been crippled. So the R10 is a crippled cripple
I'm still going to get one and keep my 100-400mm MKII for it as a backup at least the focus isn't crippled which is an important reason to hold on. I did think about this when I preordered 25th May still waiting.
If rolling shutter isn’t important to you then that’s great news as you can save $1000 and get the R7.
Today I spoke to my dealer it seems Canon is sending them their first 1 camera but it's not for me there seems to be a guy before me who they say is priority he has a load of stuff the dealer is selling on 25% commission. Told them to keep the preorder if it ever comes I no longer want one anyway. I'm sure they will sell it. I am losing out on the free converter If I had gone to a bigger dealer would have had mine over a month ago.
At least I can forget about the wait now. I have two choices OM-1, XH2s or I could get the R5 but considering I don't want RF lenses might be a wrong move for such an investment.
Necip
Senior Member
Whatever I chose the R7 was just going to be the one on the side not quite wife material.Maybe it’s your karma. Farewell!Yes you are right not only a stacked sensor better buffer 50/120 High speed fps stills, same pixel density as the R7 but without AA filter, high rez EVF 5MP, built in electronic ND filter, pixel shift handheld high rez mode 50MP or 80MP on tripod, live composite, live bulb, 240fps video, nicely spec'dYes, and I’m guessing that has a lot to do with the higher price point. I can’t speak for the Fuji as I’ve never seen one in person but the OM1 really does feel like a camera designed for professional photography.Do they? I dunno. Maybe that's why they cost so much more, but so what? My G7x Mk iii has a stacked sensor too.Both have stacked sensors don’t they?Hmmm. Neither the Fuji nor the OM seems like a spec beater relative to the R7, but the Fuji costs $1000 more and the OM costs $700 more, both for less. I suppose that will be attractive to some.Offcourse I don't like Canon's cripple culture
They should at least attempt to keep up with other brands similar segments first then cripple that model for lower cheaper models.
In this case R7 spec wise is not a patch on the XH2s or even the M4/3 OM-1 so it's already been crippled. So the R10 is a crippled cripple
I'm still going to get one and keep my 100-400mm MKII for it as a backup at least the focus isn't crippled which is an important reason to hold on. I did think about this when I preordered 25th May still waiting.
If rolling shutter isn’t important to you then that’s great news as you can save $1000 and get the R7.
Today I spoke to my dealer it seems Canon is sending them their first 1 camera but it's not for me there seems to be a guy before me who they say is priority he has a load of stuff the dealer is selling on 25% commission. Told them to keep the preorder if it ever comes I no longer want one anyway. I'm sure they will sell it. I am losing out on the free converter If I had gone to a bigger dealer would have had mine over a month ago.
At least I can forget about the wait now. I have two choices OM-1, XH2s or I could get the R5 but considering I don't want RF lenses might be a wrong move for such an investment.
In terms of Karma I'm an atheist I'm not brand loyal don't worship any brand
cheers take care!
When I was little I refused to eat pork...but I loved pig!
It seems that some people have the same syndrome with photography. Gear snobism is more important to some than the images they produce.
For whatever camera Canon releases next they should send it to test and review to a group of people with no specs at all, just a body with no label. "here is a new camera, go play with it and see if you like it".
Just like with these blind wine tasting sessions, people who know what they are talking about will be able to make a decision based on what they feel and produce, rather than a bias decision based on a label they read before trying.
All of a sudden most 'limitations' would not be a problem anymore because most people wouldn't be able to tell by actually using the camera rather than reading a spec sheet.
What about that new 150 - 600 mm they released? 900mm equivalent on the new xht2 (stacked-sensor) or whatever it is called.
BirdShooter7
Forum Pro
Or maybe it has nothing at all to do with gear snobbery. How snobby could one be about cameras in the $1500-2500 range. If you really wanted to be a snob I’d think you would be talking about hasselblad or something like that.
Good point, but snobbery is not just about system price. Some of the folks flamboyantly letting us know that they are canceling their orders indicated that they would be willing to pay $1000 more for battery grips and other markers of ‘pro-ness’. Others can’t do without trophy features like a BSI stacked sensor, and they are willing to pay more for that. That’s fine. But why make a big show of announcing that here?
I find the stacked sensor statement to be quite odd. It shouldn’t matter if a sensor is stacked or not. The real reasoning or requirement is what level of rolling shutter is acceptable to you or not. A stacked sensor comes at a pretty steep price. Not to mention most generally a mechanical shutter fixes any rolling shutter issue. Otherwise you will have to be willing to pay for a stacked sensor.
Lastly there is the reality of things… and that has to do with what is actually available at the moment. The only stacked sensor cameras that you have that is not FF is the fuji X-H2S and the Oly OM1. The oly os M3/4 and the fuji costs almost $1k more than the R7. If you were to compare the R7 to the competition you have the sony bodies that are meh ergonomically (IMO) and the Nikons which are disappointing (IMO) as well.
End of the day you can only make a choice based on what is currently on the market or risk finding yourself waiting for a while for something that may or may not come out. Of course you can always hop on over to getting a Z9, A1, or R3 but should be willing to pay some 3x the cost what the R7 would… Personally I would get the R7, and then upgrade to a stacked sensor canon APS-C cameras if and when it comes out and it would still cost me less (even with depreciation) in the long run. Or any brand camera you would like to take the gamble on.
End of the day there are always pros and cons. The stacked fuji X-H2S readout rate is 1/150 s, which is nice… but I would prefer the AF system in the R7 by far. Same goes for the OM-1.
Of course if you already have a camera system. You can just stick with it and wait and see if a good stacked sensor camera does come out.
BirdShooter7
Forum Pro
Are you suggesting that features like a stacked sensor don’t add real value for actual photography?
I can understand why someone might be frustrated and want to vent when they have been waiting for what seems like forever for a camera to be announced and when it finally happens , it’ doesn’t have some key features they really wanted.
Not at all. I am suggesting that two posters, you are not one of them, have gone out of their way to express contempt for the R7 and by extension those of us who like it because it’s feature set does not give them the bragging rights they want.
I am sure you also understand that some of us really wanted a crop RF mount camera, “they” said it would never happen but finally it did, didn’t care about a stacked sensor, were afraid that Canon would set a high price for the R7, and were really pleased when it came in at $1499.
This is relative is it not? After all it isn’t all or nothing. A stacked sensor with fast enough readout gives you negligible rolling shutter while being silent. And of course the speed benefits in terms of FPS. We all pretty much know this. But it comes at a price doesn’t it?
If the R7 came with a stacked sensor it would cost some $700 more at the very least. The only other cropped sensor with a stacked sensor currently is the fuji X-H2S. Which I am using as reference regarding price. So it would likely have been a point of complaints for many.
Canon sort of took the “save” approach. Here you have the 7D in MILC form albeit a bit less pro. At 15 fps with mechanical shutter it isn’t shabby at all. So unless you need faster than 15 fps, you pretty much have a shooting mode where you have no rolling shutter effects at all. Unless you are shooting a sport like golf you don’t need no rolling shutter and silent mode at the same time. The alternative would be to go for the A9, A1, R3, Z9 lines for those features.
Last but not least keep in mind that canon always has a long term plan in mind. They may very well release a future R7 with a stacked sensor later on. Typically they have a certain price segment in mind for any given series and include features and specs based on that. In this regard stacked sensor tech needs to get cheaper before it shows up in the R7 line (just IMO).
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Necip
Senior Member
"Last but not least keep in mind that canon always has a long term plan in mind. They may very well release a future R7 with a stacked sensor later on. Typically they have a certain price segment in mind for any given series and include features and specs based on that. In this regard stacked sensor tech needs to get cheaper before it shows up in the R7 line (just IMO)."
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How long term? my 7DMKII has been out around 8 years and R7 is what we got? how long more another 8 years? and how many more rumours to keep us hanging on to our Canon lenses, this has got to be the most half hearted attempted compared to any industry it relies on blind customer loyalty.
We wouldn't have had the R5 or the R3 if Sony hadn't taken away Canon customers.
It's not just stack sensor related although that is a very important feature for fast wildlife especially silent shooting fast bird wing movements you just cant reliably use silent on the R7 there are many other spec differences EVF rez, buffer, 4K120 etc.
The stack sensor price isn't so bad I'm already seeing good discounted grey OM-1 for £1749 and XH2s for £1939. In the UK the EF-RF converter is £119 and R7 £1349 total £1468 so buying an OM-1 would be an extra £281 difference for me. Although I'm still waiting on trusted reviewers Gordon Laing and this guy below does an amazing comparison. He is in the process of checking the XH2s.
mirrorlesscomparison.com
Even if miraculously it turned out the R7 is best ever I just can't even get one.. I waited since 25th May my dealer says sorry not happening and I said ok cancel it not waiting any longer I will buy something else.
People who have one great enjoy it a nice camera
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How long term? my 7DMKII has been out around 8 years and R7 is what we got? how long more another 8 years? and how many more rumours to keep us hanging on to our Canon lenses, this has got to be the most half hearted attempted compared to any industry it relies on blind customer loyalty.
We wouldn't have had the R5 or the R3 if Sony hadn't taken away Canon customers.
It's not just stack sensor related although that is a very important feature for fast wildlife especially silent shooting fast bird wing movements you just cant reliably use silent on the R7 there are many other spec differences EVF rez, buffer, 4K120 etc.
The stack sensor price isn't so bad I'm already seeing good discounted grey OM-1 for £1749 and XH2s for £1939. In the UK the EF-RF converter is £119 and R7 £1349 total £1468 so buying an OM-1 would be an extra £281 difference for me. Although I'm still waiting on trusted reviewers Gordon Laing and this guy below does an amazing comparison. He is in the process of checking the XH2s.
The Best Mirrorless Cameras for Birds in Flight Ranked - Mirrorless Comparison
A few years ago, our reader Alfredo suggested an idea for an article. Since we test the autofocus performance of many cameras at the same red kite feeding stations, why not publish a list of all the cameras we use with their keeper rate for birds in flight? I liked ... Read more
mirrorlesscomparison.com
Even if miraculously it turned out the R7 is best ever I just can't even get one.. I waited since 25th May my dealer says sorry not happening and I said ok cancel it not waiting any longer I will buy something else.
People who have one great enjoy it a nice camera
What I take from your comments is that Canon hasn't met your expectations with this camera at the price point - coupled with supply issues; that's fine we all have different requirements and one way to communicate that is by voting with your wallet and choosing another brand. However I would suggest that for costing purposes you will need to factor in an adapter for either an Olympus or Fuji and whether that impacts the abilities of those bodies
BirdShooter7
Forum Pro
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