Is this simplified gear thing a new marketing ploy in your opinions?

third son · Jul 22, 2022

Having sold my entire Fuji kit last year I bought back in with an XE-4 and a couple of small primes. It was very liberating for me. I won't give up my FF kit but it's nice to have tiny occasionally.

vcxz · Jul 22, 2022

There are greater trends among younger people for minimalism. There is a minimalism documentary on Netflix, which also has a show on Marie Kondo. People are living in tiny homes, etc.

This is a gross generalization, but younger people tend to like fewer but better choices, like how the iPhone only had one model. Older generations seem to value more material goods and choice but younger ones have decision fatigue. It's similar to how younger people view a car as a burden but older generations view it as freedom.

Rod McD · Jul 22, 2022

vcxz said:
There are greater trends among younger people for minimalism. There is a minimalism documentary on Netflix, which also has a show on Marie Kondo. People are living in tiny homes, etc.

This is a gross generalization, but younger people tend to like fewer but better choices, like how the iPhone only had one model. Older generations seem to value more material goods and choice but younger ones have decision fatigue. It's similar to how younger people view a car as a burden but older generations view it as freedom.

Hi,

Interesting reflections on youth and society, and succinctly expressed. I'm an old bloke, so thank you for the insight, even if they are generalizations. A philosophical digression.....

I'm not sure whether and how these concepts translate to photography and camera gear. If one's interests include photography and run from say a 10mm lens to a 500mm lens, exercising choice to minimalize without a 10mm or 500mm lens, does not achieve the requirement of the interest. Any resolution involving a high grade fixed lens camera would actually mean changing or containing one's interests. Do they see it that way - a balance where minimalization is the greater goal and contains the the opportunities?

And surely there is a related dilemma with the car...? I have one and very much belong to the generation that that sees it as freedom. It's not the ownership of the car that is freedom. That's the cost, the burden. The freedom is the concept of completely independent mobility that it provides. If I could not escape the madness of the city, work and modern life, by 'going bush' (as Australians say) to get away from it all, my quality of life would be massively reduced. Do young people who see a car as a burden simply forego the means to visit natural, wild and remote places where public transport will never go - the deserts, mountains, and forests - for a life lived mostly in the cities? Not for me.

Regards, Rod

Howard V · Jul 22, 2022

Rod McD said:
vcxz said:

There are greater trends among younger people for minimalism. There is a minimalism documentary on Netflix, which also has a show on Marie Kondo. People are living in tiny homes, etc.

This is a gross generalization, but younger people tend to like fewer but better choices, like how the iPhone only had one model. Older generations seem to value more material goods and choice but younger ones have decision fatigue. It's similar to how younger people view a car as a burden but older generations view it as freedom.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Interesting reflections on youth and society, and succinctly expressed. I'm an old bloke, so thank you for the insight, even if they are generalizations. A philosophical digression.....

I'm not sure whether and how these concepts translate to photography and camera gear. If one's interests include photography and run from say a 10mm lens to a 500mm lens, exercising choice to minimalize without a 10mm or 500mm lens, does not achieve the requirement of the interest. Any resolution involving a high grade fixed lens camera would actually mean changing or containing one's interests. Do they see it that way - a balance where minimalization is the greater goal and contains the the opportunities?

And surely there is a related dilemma with the car...? I have one and very much belong to the generation that that sees it as freedom. It's not the ownership of the car that is freedom. That's the cost, the burden. The freedom is the concept of completely independent mobility that it provides. If I could not escape the madness of the city, work and modern life, by 'going bush' (as Australians say) to get away from it all, my quality of life would be massively reduced. Do young people who see a car as a burden simply forego the means to visit natural, wild and remote places where public transport will never go - the deserts, mountains, and forests - for a life lived mostly in the cities? Not for me.

Regards, Rod

Another generalization perhaps, but it seems they’d rather be on their screens.

Bobo Hodls · Jul 22, 2022

Being able to alternate with a bit of a smaller scale rig is indeed liberating and an experience in its own right. Changing things up like that can be invigorating. Reminds me of how comfortable it was to wield an m4/3 kit. But that was then. . . a small array of Fuji's covers a lot of bases too.

Interesting composition. Very Nice.

Dennis · Jul 22, 2022

DirkPeh said:
Fixed lense cameras / using just one prime lense creates a certain look and this becomes unique to your pictures. You learn what to do, when shooting close or far away objects, you have to interact with your environment instead of sitting on your couch, zooming in and out of your surroundings.

I get the appeal; just not enough to spend the money on one

I'd love to own and use an X100V (not a Ricoh so much). I have a Minolta HiMatic 7sII with a 40mm prime and a RIcoh 500 with a 50mm prime - I never shot them a lot, but had a blast with them when I did use them.

But $1300(ish) for a camera w/lens that will eventually seem obsolete or malfunction just doesn't fit with my values. (I bought an Open Box RX10 III for around $800 but would have an awfully hard time spending $1700 on the IV, even if it replaced all the rest of my gear).

- Dennis
--

Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

ShiftySkunk · Jul 22, 2022

Dennis said:
DirkPeh said:

Fixed lense cameras / using just one prime lense creates a certain look and this becomes unique to your pictures. You learn what to do, when shooting close or far away objects, you have to interact with your environment instead of sitting on your couch, zooming in and out of your surroundings.

Click to expand...

I get the appeal; just not enough to spend the money on one

I'd love to own and use an X100V (not a Ricoh so much). I have a Minolta HiMatic 7sII with a 40mm prime and a RIcoh 500 with a 50mm prime - I never shot them a lot, but had a blast with them when I did use them.

But $1300(ish) for a camera w/lens that will eventually seem obsolete or malfunction just doesn't fit with my values. (I bought an Open Box RX10 III for around $800 but would have an awfully hard time spending $1700 on the IV, even if it replaced all the rest of my gear).

- Dennis
--

Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

Won’t every camera become obsolete and/or malfunction eventually?

Maxx787 · Jul 22, 2022

Obviously wasting my time....why bother saying anything? MAMIYA a name to remember.

FTOG · Jul 23, 2022

keolisho56 said:
Obviously wasting my time....why bother saying anything? MAMIYA a name to remember.

What is name dropping a model/manufacturer telling others? Maybe if you elaborate on your opinion, you might not be "wasting your time".

Samotivad · Jul 23, 2022

DirkPeh said:
A comparison with musicians:

There are guitarists, who simply put a Strat or a Tele into an amp. Maybe they use one pedal from time to time. And there are players, who use 3 different guitars on a gig, going through 28 pedals on a large board. They love to operate these 28 pedals and dance upon their board like a switching magican. The Strat guy completely changes his sound with his fingers or just using the very simple electronics of his guitar, knowing everything without things distracting him from playing and listening.

These types of musicians are very different and work the best, when they get what they need. As a musician I do both, but never at the same time or the same gig . Hard to explain.

I'm a guitarist too and I use exactly the minimalist setup you describe there! I used to own loads of pedals but sold them all.

When it comes to fixed lens cameras my attitude is a little different though. With the guitar / amp / pedal setup, I can still change any one of those three things and get a new sound. With the fixed lens camera, I have to replace the whole camera to get a different focal length. My DSLR kit is still sort of minimal, when I have the camera I walk around with a D7200, a smallish zoom lens and one prime for taking portraits.

I think if I went the small Fuji camera route, I'd probably be best off with an E4 rather than an X100V... the problem is I don't like the look of the grip on that camera, because it looks like it has none.

Samotivad · Jul 23, 2022

third son said:
Having sold my entire Fuji kit last year I bought back in with an XE-4 and a couple of small primes. It was very liberating for me. I won't give up my FF kit but it's nice to have tiny occasionally.

I've been thinking that if I ever do go down the FF small camera route that the XE-4 is probs more versatile choice for the long term. How do you find the grip though? That's the main thing worrying me about it. Maybe I'll rent one of those to check out too.

Howard V · Jul 23, 2022

ShiftySkunk said:
Dennis said:

DirkPeh said:

Fixed lense cameras / using just one prime lense creates a certain look and this becomes unique to your pictures. You learn what to do, when shooting close or far away objects, you have to interact with your environment instead of sitting on your couch, zooming in and out of your surroundings.

Click to expand...

I get the appeal; just not enough to spend the money on one

I'd love to own and use an X100V (not a Ricoh so much). I have a Minolta HiMatic 7sII with a 40mm prime and a RIcoh 500 with a 50mm prime - I never shot them a lot, but had a blast with them when I did use them.

But $1300(ish) for a camera w/lens that will eventually seem obsolete or malfunction just doesn't fit with my values. (I bought an Open Box RX10 III for around $800 but would have an awfully hard time spending $1700 on the IV, even if it replaced all the rest of my gear).

- Dennis
--

Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

Click to expand...

Won’t every camera become obsolete and/or malfunction eventually?

Absolutely. Divide the cost of the camera by the number of images it gives over its functioning lifetime, and that’s the cost per image. Pretty low, actually. And it’s still a conversation piece or a source for parts recycling in the end.

John Gellings · Jul 23, 2022

Rod McD said:
vcxz said:

There are greater trends among younger people for minimalism. There is a minimalism documentary on Netflix, which also has a show on Marie Kondo. People are living in tiny homes, etc.

This is a gross generalization, but younger people tend to like fewer but better choices, like how the iPhone only had one model. Older generations seem to value more material goods and choice but younger ones have decision fatigue. It's similar to how younger people view a car as a burden but older generations view it as freedom.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Interesting reflections on youth and society, and succinctly expressed. I'm an old bloke, so thank you for the insight, even if they are generalizations. A philosophical digression.....

I'm not sure whether and how these concepts translate to photography and camera gear. If one's interests include photography and run from say a 10mm lens to a 500mm lens, exercising choice to minimalize without a 10mm or 500mm lens, does not achieve the requirement of the interest. Any resolution involving a high grade fixed lens camera would actually mean changing or containing one's interests. Do they see it that way - a balance where minimalization is the greater goal and contains the the opportunities?

Yes, his generalizations weren’t that accurate in my view. In every generation there are materialistic people and there hasn’t been only one model of iPhone in like 10 years. For instance, I don’t own a car and basically only use lenses from 40-85mm (I own wider but rarely use them) for the most part with 40-50mm being my favorite. I’m a fixed lens camera fan and I own a few. I’ll be 49 next month.

--
https://www.johngellings.com
Instagram = @johngellings0

third son · Jul 23, 2022

I put a JJC grip on it. Works really well.

FTOG · Jul 23, 2022

Samotivad said:
I think if I went the small Fuji camera route, I'd probably be best off with an E4 rather than an X100V... the problem is I don't like the look of the grip on that camera, because it looks like it has none.

An add-on grip doesn't add that much weight or bulk to an X-E body, if you're concerned about holding comfort.

I appreciate going out with just one lens. It's a nice way of observing and capturing your surroundings in one specific FOV. You also free yourself from the pressure of being prepared for "every" shot that presents itself. Even if you carried a full bag of lenses, you won't ever be ready for every shot, though. To that end, limiting yourself to FOV can be a logical progression.

With that said, I don't think I could limit myself to one FOV "permanently". Covering different subject matter, I find applications benefit from a variety of often very different focal lengths. For a while now I've been pondering right-sizing my gear, likely reducing what I own today, but I don't see a scenario where I could go down to one FOV - even if I understand the rationale and approach of people that do.

jxh · Jul 23, 2022

Samotivad said:
I...

I'm seeing a lot of marketing about making photography simpler, with these fixed focal lengths, minimal controls and in the case of fuji and black mist filters, getting a more film inspired look. When I stepped back and stopped drooling, I couldn't help but wonder if this is the camera makers' new marketing thing? Admit to people that a stylish fixed lens camera is far more limited in versatility, admit that people could just use their iPhone camera to take everyday photos... but that this is "all about the experience".

So I'm interested to hear your points of views. Is this companies trying to sell happiness in a bottle or do you think there's a bit more to this movement than just profits?

Still going to rent a x100v I think, just to make sure ^^

All kinds of markets got through stages of complexity, and reaction. Vinyl records, the surge a while back for single speed bicycles....

Somewhat it's marketing, somewhat it's shift in demand, or new customers afraid of complexity (years ago the camera manual was a 32 page booklet... I recently picked up a pocketable Lumix for casual use and the manual was over 300 pages)

You stay in business by making what the public wants.

Maxx787 · Jul 23, 2022

If you wish to argue....try somebody else.

FTOG · Jul 23, 2022

keolisho56 said:
If you wish to argue....try somebody else.

Not interested in that. Would have been interested in your opinion and how it relates to the topic at hand, other than making us aware that the Mamiya 7 exists.

BITPhotoSpace · Jul 23, 2022

Samotivad said:
I was recently getting back into watching some of the Youtube camera/lens reviewers, just to see what's new. The thing that piqued my attention the most was the Fuji X100V and small yet high-end cameras like that. I know that line and a few others have been around for years but I hadn't noticed them being pushed so much before.

I was seriously considering getting an x100v because of all the positivity but I've decided to just hold onto my old kit for now because it serves me for pretty much everything I need. I might rent the x100v but I don't know realistically how much I'd appreciate having one fixed focal length on such an expensive camera. I know it's meant to be a great camera, so I'm not questioning its quality. I'm not even questioning that a nice camera like that could get people taking photographs more.. though I do wonder how long if takes for the novelty to wear off.

I'm seeing a lot of marketing about making photography simpler, with these fixed focal lengths, minimal controls and in the case of fuji and black mist filters, getting a more film inspired look. When I stepped back and stopped drooling, I couldn't help but wonder if this is the camera makers' new marketing thing? Admit to people that a stylish fixed lens camera is far more limited in versatility, admit that people could just use their iPhone camera to take everyday photos... but that this is "all about the experience".

So I'm interested to hear your points of views. Is this companies trying to sell happiness in a bottle or do you think there's a bit more to this movement than just profits?

Still going to rent a x100v I think, just to make sure ^^

Marketing is a crucial element of any business/ corporation thus not clear on your question.

It goes like in a nutshell: You assess market potential e.g. a genre of costumers wanting a simple, small, retro, direct control and fixed (limited) FOV camera - based on outcome (i.e. there's potentially a substantial market) , you design the product, market and sell thus it's only natural to market (ploy?) in order to sell. It is not the duty of the marketeer to include a disclaimer such as "you may end up being bored to death with the e.g. 35 mm FOV in a couplaweeks indeed" - it's your job as a costumer to make a well considered choice.

Thing is, and with digital cameras being pretty much disposable as with all electronics, tis very easy to make quick decisions - not the end of the world really.

--
The true quality of a photograph can never be appreciated by gearheads..

Jerry-astro · Jul 23, 2022

keolisho56 said:
If you wish to argue....try somebody else.

People are simply asking how name dropping another manufacturer is in any way relevant to the topic at hand. It's a valid question. Your post seems to have little to do with the topic, so perhaps you might consider taking a minute to explain what you're getting at and how this relates either to the thread or to this forum, or just stay out of the discussion.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fuji Forum co-Mod

Is this simplified gear thing a new marketing ploy in your opinions?

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