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Are pros using MAC or PC continued...

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I use pc because I build my own computers and it cheap to build pc boxes...dirt cheap to build linux box...but that is another post...

Thanks for all the responses and the imput...I wish I could afford a new G5 with a 23" Cinema HD display...how sweet is that?!!!

I will be stuck..er..sticking with pc for a while..

RD
Rob Duke said:
The most ludicrous thing one could say is to say that mac users out
number pc users...in any forum...

Check the numbers of pc sales to mac...check out who is using mac
or pc on this very forum...

Heck...lets do an informal survey right now...

Who is using mac compared to pc...

Anyone who responds to this post put PC or MAC at the begining of
you subject line...

Not scientific but telling...

RD
Click to expand...
 
Nanook,

Just about any basic install of Windows 2000 or higher is going to be infected with a worm if its directly on the internet and not kept up to date with almost weekly security patches.

Of course, you might well have a worm and not know it.

I've never seen a Mac virus or worm in the wild -- I see them on our corporate windows network every week or two -- and I am just a software developer not an IT networking guy.

Our network has been taken down 3 times in the past 2 years with worms -- at the cost of many millions of dollars down the toilet. Cost estimates for all corporations ranges in the hundreds of billions of dollars dealing with Microsoft Security issues.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1
 
The point is a default install of OSX or Linux is far more secure than Windows -- for a variety of reasons.

I run my OSX laptop on the internet directly through a firewall port map. It would be suicide to do this with a default windows install on broadband, unless you want to keep up with weekly security updates and/or turn off all ports.

Life's too short to deal with the security nightmare that is Windows. Microsoft knows this -- which is why they are at least making noises about getting serious about security.

This is coming from someone who has used Windows machines for over a decade. Funny thing is, the three developers in our office are all buying Macs for our personal machines -- two after never owning a mac in their lives. We're just sick of the hassle -- registry rot, DLL hell, hardware incompatibilities, and the never-ending security nightmares that make running a Windows server a nightmare of constant reboots.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1
 
I can think of two good reasons to prefer Macs -- you want a secure operating system that doesn't require constant security patching to avoid becoming infested with worms, and/or you don't trust Bill Gates to control your access to file formats and software along the lines of the new "trusted computing architecture" where Redmond deletes files from your hard drive if you can't prove you own them.

Where I want to go today is definitely not there.

Other than that, if the tasteless Microsoft UI doesn't bother you it seems to work well enough -- at least until the bit rot sets in and your registry gets hosed.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1
 
OS 10? it's taken them 10 to get a fairly stable system.

Win XP? Not as easy to count, but here goes win 1.0, win 2.0, win 3.0, win 3.11, win 95, win 98, win 98se, win me, win nt, win 2000, win xp, win xp pro.

Both are really just as capable.

The main reason newspapers, etc primarily use mac is because once upon a time the mac really beat the pc in photo editting, that is really not the case now. Now those people really use the Mac because that is what they are used to. End of story.

My brother does tech support for a school district that up to this point was primarily Mac (not OS 10). However, due to budget considerations they are switching over to PCs (40% cheaper for same power). However, some of the teachers are griping because they don't want to learn a new OS. The funny thing is that the transition to XP really isn't any harder than the transition would be for them if they went to OS 10.

Any more the main reason to stay with Mac is legacy software and because that is what one is comfortable with.
Rob Duke said:
The most ludicrous thing one could say is to say that mac users out
number pc users...in any forum...

Check the numbers of pc sales to mac...check out who is using mac
or pc on this very forum...

Heck...lets do an informal survey right now...

Who is using mac compared to pc...

Anyone who responds to this post put PC or MAC at the begining of
you subject line...

Not scientific but telling...

RD
Click to expand...
--
Brian
  • C-7OO, and some other stuff
 
Maybe OSX is but a default install of Linux is no more secure depending on the version... Most assume you know how to setup the port map and leave a lot of things open...

As for the Windows thing, the biggest issue is SMB and there are many resources around the web about how it is a good product but has limitations.

As for the Registry, I can always find the issues in it and fix them 90% of the time so to me it isn't an issue.

As for Firewalls, that is the biggest point of my post... We know what the desktop is for and we know that hardware firewalls and routers are the best alternatives to such security... Also, there are programs out there that will do everything you say would be a nightmare it just takes research to find them.

Ok, if life is too short to deal with Windows then use Linux and Crossover office... then you get your photoshop and a secure system on superior hardware!

Oh and one point you're forgetting, MS makes the main office suite and web browser for the MAC right now and the WEB Browser has been the subject of most security updates so think about that!
Matthew Cromer said:
The point is a default install of OSX or Linux is far more secure
than Windows -- for a variety of reasons.

I run my OSX laptop on the internet directly through a firewall
port map. It would be suicide to do this with a default windows
install on broadband, unless you want to keep up with weekly
security updates and/or turn off all ports.

Life's too short to deal with the security nightmare that is
Windows. Microsoft knows this -- which is why they are at least
making noises about getting serious about security.

This is coming from someone who has used Windows machines for over
a decade. Funny thing is, the three developers in our office are
all buying Macs for our personal machines -- two after never owning
a mac in their lives. We're just sick of the hassle -- registry
rot, DLL hell, hardware incompatibilities, and the never-ending
security nightmares that make running a Windows server a nightmare
of constant reboots.

--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1
Click to expand...
--

'The only real currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with each other when we're being uncool.' -- Cameron Crowe
 
He's living in a fantasy world for two reasons...

One, he thinks he can teach users how to care about security? He's going to have users that learn how to enable the Binary Attribute in a Linux file just so they can run the "cool" snow ball fight that thier friend just sent them without ever thinking about security! This will happen simply because it isn't thier job to know this stuff as far as they're concerned! Believe me, I've worked with enough of them to know how they think!

Another thing, he's underestimating the corporate influence and what is going to happen to Linux when a big company takes it over! Novell just bought SuSE (I use this Linux all the time) but they're going to kill the system because they don't know anything about Marketing and Redhat is the most likely candidate to succeed but they're now being called the Microsoft of the Linux world so where do you think they're going to end up? Remember the supposed accidental backdoor left in Redhat 8?

The final piece, most distributions admit they don't have time to examine every piece of code for every piece of software that is installed in Linux so most of it goes unchecked but the source is freely accessible to the whole world and that is a much bigger problem then MS is faced with. Basically now you have the potential of installing the Trojan or Virus with your chosen version of Linux and most companies can't afford enough developers to go through that much code with every new generation!

As for MAC, if they would just be smart and become a software company they would probably kick MS Up one side and Down the other but they're not that smart so it is a non-factor.
Chris Muir said:
Pete Perry said:
Yep, if you know what you're doing... It isn't any less secure
then Linux if the person doesn't take precautions. And Mac OS/X is
no different, there just aren't as many people trying to attack
it...
Click to expand...
That point is in dispute. Read this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/56/33226.html

--
http://www.xfade.com
Click to expand...
--

'The only real currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with each other when we're being uncool.' -- Cameron Crowe
 
Matthew,

Well, I have several pretty basic Windows 2000 installations, and I'm not particularly diligent about updating with security patches, yet I seem to be quite dumb and happy; never had a worm or virus attack. Things that I do seem to be quite rudimentary:

(1) firewall
(2) avoid running computer as super user all the time
(3) avoid running email attached executables of unknown origin
(4) once in a while, apply some patches

These are the same kind of precautions and maintenance that one needs to do even running a Unix system.

Yes, living in a normal human society is going to make one more exposed to human disease that other human beings are carrying; yet few of us seem to have decided to move to an island by oneself. On the other hand, the islanders may well think the cities on the mainland are nothing but full of sick and dying people. The reality, as usual, is quite different.
Matthew Cromer said:
Nanook,

Just about any basic install of Windows 2000 or higher is going to
be infected with a worm if its directly on the internet and not
kept up to date with almost weekly security patches.

Of course, you might well have a worm and not know it.

I've never seen a Mac virus or worm in the wild -- I see them on
our corporate windows network every week or two -- and I am just a
software developer not an IT networking guy.

Our network has been taken down 3 times in the past 2 years with
worms -- at the cost of many millions of dollars down the toilet.
Cost estimates for all corporations ranges in the hundreds of
billions of dollars dealing with Microsoft Security issues.

--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1
Click to expand...
 
Well put. Both'll do the job. Kinda like cars. One car does movement x better and than another but the other does movement y better than the former. It's a six of one half dozen of the other situation.

Was required to learn both when studying graphics in college. They're really pretty close to the same. Mac did some things a bit easier than PCs and PCs did some things a bit easier than Macs.
Brian said:
Both are really just as capable.

The main reason newspapers, etc primarily use mac is because once
upon a time the mac really beat the pc in photo editting, that is
really not the case now. Now those people really use the Mac
because that is what they are used to. End of story.

My brother does tech support for a school district that up to this
point was primarily Mac (not OS 10). However, due to budget
considerations they are switching over to PCs (40% cheaper for same
power). However, some of the teachers are griping because they
don't want to learn a new OS. The funny thing is that the
transition to XP really isn't any harder than the transition would
be for them if they went to OS 10.

Any more the main reason to stay with Mac is legacy software and
because that is what one is comfortable with.
Rob Duke said:
The most ludicrous thing one could say is to say that mac users out
number pc users...in any forum...

Check the numbers of pc sales to mac...check out who is using mac
or pc on this very forum...

Heck...lets do an informal survey right now...

Who is using mac compared to pc...

Anyone who responds to this post put PC or MAC at the begining of
you subject line...

Not scientific but telling...

RD
Click to expand...
--
Brian
  • C-7OO, and some other stuff
Click to expand...
 
Matthew Cromer said:
You can get a windows virus just by reading email, or a worm just
by being connected to the internet.
Click to expand...
The issue with getting a virus by reading email is not a WINDOWS issue, it's a MS Outlook issue. OLDER versions of Outlook would execute things embedded in EMAIL messages without asking the user.

This problem ALSO existed on the Mac with ENTOURAGE, although it was exploited to a much lesser degree by virus writers.

However, this problem has been gone for the last two versions of Outlook, and I don't know of any other email clients where it was an issue.

Yes, sure, it was stupid of Microsoft to configure Outlook to automatically execute code of any kind that was embedded in an EMAIL message. But this was still an APPLICATION problem, not an operating system problem.

As to the idea that you get a worm just by being connected by the internet, this is not something that is Windows-specific. This could happen on ANY computer system that's not protected by a firewall of some kind. I remember a couple of years ago, the MIS guys at my work were talking about a worm that had gotten onto our Sun EMAIL server running Solaris UNIX because of a configuration problem with the firewall.

Any computer that has any open TCP/IP port is vulnerable to some sort of attack, even if it's just a simple Denial-of-Service attack that slows the system to a crawl.

The simple fact is the reason there are 50 times more virus and worm problems with Windows than Mac isn't because the Mac OS is inherently safer. It's because there are 50 times more Windows-based machines out there, and because Microsoft is a more popular target for the sort of people that write viruses.

Mike
 
Not true... since OSX 10.3 (Panther) came out a month ago, I've already installed 3 security patches. They can be found on Apple's website if you haven't already got them.
Matthew Cromer said:
I can think of two good reasons to prefer Macs -- you want a secure
operating system that doesn't require constant security patching to
avoid becoming infested with worms, and/or you don't trust Bill
Gates to control your access to file formats and software along the
lines of the new "trusted computing architecture" where Redmond
deletes files from your hard drive if you can't prove you own them.

Where I want to go today is definitely not there.

Other than that, if the tasteless Microsoft UI doesn't bother you
it seems to work well enough -- at least until the bit rot sets in
and your registry gets hosed.

--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1
Click to expand...
 
One PC (my son's, which is suffering from another dratted virus)

Kind Regards
-Billie
Rob Duke said:
The most ludicrous thing one could say is to say that mac users out
number pc users...in any forum...

Check the numbers of pc sales to mac...check out who is using mac
or pc on this very forum...

Heck...lets do an informal survey right now...

Who is using mac compared to pc...

Anyone who responds to this post put PC or MAC at the begining of
you subject line...

Not scientific but telling...

RD
Click to expand...
 
It would be stupid when there is relatively inexpensive software out there not to get the protection. Having said that I have never found (with antivirus software) or had a virus on my Mac.
Mike Fulton said:
Matthew Cromer said:
I like them better, and no virus or worm issues to deal with.
Click to expand...
So, the various anti-virus programs sold for the Mac are just
complete rip-offs then?
Click to expand...
--
Thanks for any help!!!
 
Well Nanook,

With your computer system hiding behind the firewall you cannot host any kind of server. So if that is your idea of a quality computing environment, go for it.

BTW it doesn't matter if you run software as a superuser (although that is, of course a UNIX concept) because Windows runs many of the vulnerable services with administrator-level priviliges.

You are also very fortunate that you haven't received any of the email virus scripts that only require being read (not executed) by the incredibly insecure email clients created by Microsoft with hooks into the operating system.
 
Started with Photoshop on a PC. After trying it on a Mac,
I've stayed with it.

Everything works better for me on the Mac. The hardware
cost a little more, but it has been easier to use and
maintain and the equipment seems to last very well.

I use both platforms at work, but I will not use PCs for
photography/graphic arts if I have a choice.
 
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