Lens VR and in-body stabilization shut down for certain shutter speeds.

stephen kronwith · May 23, 2022

We’ve all read how some recommend that we turn off lens VR if speeds get as fast as 1/500 or 1/1000 and faster for best results. For those of you who do this, do you also turn off in-body stabilization for those same speeds whether your lens has VR or not? Thanks.

EricK214 · May 23, 2022

stephen kronwith said:
We’ve all read how some recommend that we turn off lens VR if speeds get as fast as 1/500 or 1/1000 and faster for best results. For those of you who do this, do you also turn off in-body stabilization for those same speeds whether your lens has VR or not? Thanks.

I thought that Z lenses do not have a VR switch on the lens, it's all 5 axis is controlled in-body. So if you have an F mount lens with a VR switch, it is controlled by the VR switch on the lens only. So if you want it off, then you turn off VR on the lens.

Also if you have a sport mode on your VR lens there is no need to turn off your VR at any shutter speed on a DLSR and F mount lenses. On the Z mirrorless you just leave it on again in sport if high shutter speeds.

--
Eric
Wildlife/BIF Hunter: Nikon Z9 is my weapon of choice, the 500mm f5.6 PF is my ammo.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nikondoesabodygood/

olyflyer · May 23, 2022

stephen kronwith said:
We’ve all read how some recommend that we turn off lens VR if speeds get as fast as 1/500 or 1/1000 and faster for best results. For those of you who do this, do you also turn off in-body stabilization for those same speeds whether your lens has VR or not? Thanks.

If I want REALLY sharp images I always use high shutter speed and a tripod and switch off VR / IBIS, but otherwise it is kept always on. One more exception, when I am panning I also turn them off. I don't think it is necessary to turn them off after a certain shutter speed. There is no evidence of any drawback of keeping them on, but the efficiency decline (maybe down to zero) at high shutter speeds.

areallygrumpyoldsod · May 23, 2022

stephen kronwith said:
We’ve all read how some recommend that we turn off lens VR if speeds get as fast as 1/500 or 1/1000 and faster for best results. For those of you who do this, do you also turn off in-body stabilization for those same speeds whether your lens has VR or not? Thanks.

Your references date back decades.
There is simply no need to turn it on or off on a Mirrorless Camera and certainly not on the Z9 when shooting stills. It is just not effective on shots taken at shutter speeds faster than 1/350th, but it does aid viewing and AF.
~So keep it on ALL THE TIME then you and the camera can see and focus on the subject, irrespective of the shutter speed.
BTW - there is no evidence having VR/IBIS turned on while shooting stills slows Anything Down.

I suggest you read Thom Hogan's article on this subject - it helps a bit.

If you disagree provide EVIDENCE we can look at.

Whereas Flicker Reduction clearly does.
There is evidence that VR/IBIS can impact video recordings -- but since I don't shoot them I cannot comment.

--
areallygrumpyoldsod

romfordbluenose · May 23, 2022

Just leave it on. Any other decision is based on old wives tales.

MoreCowbell · May 25, 2022

ajm057 said:
Your references date back decades.
There is simply no need to turn it on or off on a Mirrorless Camera and certainly not on the Z9 when shooting stills. It is just not effective on shots taken at shutter speeds faster than 1/350th, but it does aid viewing and AF.
~So keep it on ALL THE TIME then you and the camera can see and focus on the subject, irrespective of the shutter speed.
BTW - there is no evidence having VR/IBIS turned on while shooting stills slows Anything Down.

I suggest you read Thom Hogan's article on this subject - it helps a bit.

Quoted from the 2021 article you linked:

"At the other end of the spectrum, at high shutter speeds most IS systems at some point start to take away a bit of edge acuity."

"For years I've been warning people to turn VR off—Nikon's form of lens-based IS—if you're shooting at high shutter speeds. Currently I assess that to be faster than 1/1000 second."

"So IS is a bit like antilock brakes on your car: when you need it, it's very useful. But you don't always need it."

"As I hinted above, I believe that optimal image capture requires that you use IS conditionally, not all the time."

"But I also shoot a lot with IS turned off, particularly when I ‘m shooting at high shutter speeds (>1/1000 second)."

areallygrumpyoldsod said:
If you disagree provide EVIDENCE we can look at.

I would argue that, as you are the one making an assertion, it would be your place to provide evidence supporting your assertion.

--
https://www.castle-explorers.com

EricK214 · May 25, 2022

MoreCowbell said:
ajm057 said:

Your references date back decades.
There is simply no need to turn it on or off on a Mirrorless Camera and certainly not on the Z9 when shooting stills. It is just not effective on shots taken at shutter speeds faster than 1/350th, but it does aid viewing and AF.
~So keep it on ALL THE TIME then you and the camera can see and focus on the subject, irrespective of the shutter speed.
BTW - there is no evidence having VR/IBIS turned on while shooting stills slows Anything Down.

I suggest you read Thom Hogan's article on this subject - it helps a bit.

Click to expand...

Quoted from the 2021 article you linked:

"At the other end of the spectrum, at high shutter speeds most IS systems at some point start to take away a bit of edge acuity."

"For years I've been warning people to turn VR off—Nikon's form of lens-based IS—if you're shooting at high shutter speeds. Currently I assess that to be faster than 1/1000 second."

"So IS is a bit like antilock brakes on your car: when you need it, it's very useful. But you don't always need it."

"As I hinted above, I believe that optimal image capture requires that you use IS conditionally, not all the time."

"But I also shoot a lot with IS turned off, particularly when I ‘m shooting at high shutter speeds (>1/1000 second)."

MoreCowbell said:

If you disagree provide EVIDENCE we can look at.

Click to expand...

WIth my D500 I would never turn off VR on my 200-500 and also not with the 500PF. If your lens has a sport mode just leave it on for any panning or tracking, which is what VR Sport mode is made for. I never had IQ issues or differences with it on at ANY shutter speed.

With Mirrorless (my Z9) the 500PF is insanely tack sharp with VR Sport mode on. I have shot 1/125 up to 1/13,000 shutter speed in sport mode, again with zero issues. With a native Z lens all VR is handled in body. I wouldn't change a thing. Shot with a friends 800PF and i have observed the exact same performance, but left in normal not sport.

MoreCowbell · May 25, 2022

EricK214 said:
MoreCowbell said:

ajm057 said:

Your references date back decades.
There is simply no need to turn it on or off on a Mirrorless Camera and certainly not on the Z9 when shooting stills. It is just not effective on shots taken at shutter speeds faster than 1/350th, but it does aid viewing and AF.
~So keep it on ALL THE TIME then you and the camera can see and focus on the subject, irrespective of the shutter speed.
BTW - there is no evidence having VR/IBIS turned on while shooting stills slows Anything Down.

I suggest you read Thom Hogan's article on this subject - it helps a bit.

Click to expand...

Quoted from the 2021 article you linked:

"At the other end of the spectrum, at high shutter speeds most IS systems at some point start to take away a bit of edge acuity."

"For years I've been warning people to turn VR off—Nikon's form of lens-based IS—if you're shooting at high shutter speeds. Currently I assess that to be faster than 1/1000 second."

"So IS is a bit like antilock brakes on your car: when you need it, it's very useful. But you don't always need it."

"As I hinted above, I believe that optimal image capture requires that you use IS conditionally, not all the time."

"But I also shoot a lot with IS turned off, particularly when I ‘m shooting at high shutter speeds (>1/1000 second)."

EricK214 said:

If you disagree provide EVIDENCE we can look at.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

WIth my D500 I would never turn off VR on my 200-500 and also not with the 500PF. If your lens has a sport mode just leave it on for any panning or tracking, which is what VR Sport mode is made for. I never had IQ issues or differences with it on at ANY shutter speed.

With Mirrorless (my Z9) the 500PF is insanely tack sharp with VR Sport mode on. I have shot 1/125 up to 1/13,000 shutter speed in sport mode, again with zero issues. With a native Z lens all VR is handled in body. I wouldn't change a thing. Shot with a friends 800PF and i have observed the exact same performance, but left in normal not sport.

Not me you're debating with

The assertions are Thom Hogan's, not mine

I supplied the quotes from the article somebody used to support their own position and thought it amusing they seem to do the opposite

--
https://www.castle-explorers.com

SoCalRick · May 30, 2022

While Thom's info that was linked from 2021 was not that long ago, I think things have changed since then with respect to using VR at higher shutter speeds. New camera bodies have come out, and certainly many FW upgrades as well. So this previous VR issue may be OBE now for many folks.

Here is a link from a recent Steve Perry video, where he says he observed no degradation from using Sport VR at higher shutter speeds, so he ended up leaving it on all the time.

I personally haven't seen any issues when leaving Sport VR on all the time when shooting BIF at high shutter speeds with my Z9 and 500mm PF.

YMMV, but I think it's safe to consider leaving VR on most of the time.

-SCR

just Tony · May 30, 2022

EricK214 said:
With a native Z lens all VR is handled in body.

Maybe you meant that VR On/Off switching is handled only in the body for the native lenses.

The 16-50, 18-140, 24-200, 50-250, 70-200, 100-400, MC 105, 400, and 800mm models all have in-lens VR. Any other future native lens with a minimum FL above 105mm most likely will have it as well.

--
Wag more; bark less.

EricK214 · May 30, 2022

just Tony said:
just Tony said:

With a native Z lens all VR is handled in body.

Click to expand...

Maybe you meant that VR On/Off switching is handled only in the body for the native lenses.

The 16-50, 18-140, 24-200, 50-250, 70-200, 100-400, MC 105, 400, and 800mm models all have in-lens VR. Any other future native lens with a minimum FL above 105mm most likely will have it as well.

There are no controls for VR on the Z lenses. The camera controls all VR whether in body IBIS or if a lens has any VR in lens. It is all set and controlled by the camera. If you want to set it to Sport, you do so in camera, if you want it on Normal you do it in camera and yes, if you want to turn VR on of off it's done in camera.

just Tony · May 30, 2022

EricK214 said:
just Tony said:

EricK214 said:

With a native Z lens all VR is handled in body.

Click to expand...

Maybe you meant that VR On/Off switching is handled only in the body for the native lenses.

The 16-50, 18-140, 24-200, 50-250, 70-200, 100-400, MC 105, 400, and 800mm models all have in-lens VR. Any other future native lens with a minimum FL above 105mm most likely will have it as well.

Click to expand...

There are no controls for VR on the Z lenses. The camera controls all VR whether in body IBIS or if a lens has any VR in lens. It is all set and controlled by the camera. If you want to set it to Sport, you do so in camera, if you want it on Normal you do it in camera and yes, if you want to turn VR on of off it's done in camera.

Exactly. ^

Leonard Shepherd · May 31, 2022

ajm057 said:
Your references date back decades.

Generally agreed.

What is beyond dispute is that in lens VR/, IBIS or both combined can correct much more camera shake than with earlier versions.

If you do not know when IS has overall a plus or a minus effect the way you shoot with your equipment – is it your fault? :-(

It normally takes only a few minutes with a suitably fine detailed subject at a common focus distance to find out whether IS on or off gives the sharpest result for you using your camera settings.

EricK214 · May 31, 2022

Leonard Shepherd said:
ajm057 said:

Your references date back decades.

Click to expand...

Generally agreed.

What is beyond dispute is that in lens VR/, IBIS or both combined can correct much more camera shake than with earlier versions.

If you do not know when IS has overall a plus or a minus effect the way you shoot with your equipment – is it your fault? :-(

It normally takes only a few minutes with a suitably fine detailed subject at a common focus distance to find out whether IS on or off gives the sharpest result for you using your camera settings.

Leonard Shepherd · May 31, 2022

EricK214 said:
or it was assumed the sport mode was the same

Nikon and other manufacturers seem to provide very little detail about their VR or IBIS systems.

Sport mode appears to have the advantage of a more stable viewfinder experience and the disadvantage of slightly less than the maximum possible effect

EricK214 · May 31, 2022

Leonard Shepherd said:
EricK214 said:

or it was assumed the sport mode was the same

Click to expand...

Nikon and other manufacturers seem to provide very little detail about their VR or IBIS systems.

Sport mode appears to have the advantage of a more stable viewfinder experience and the disadvantage of slightly less than the maximum possible effect

That's because Sport mode is for panning it when riding in a truck and shooting such as if in a truck on a safari. Sport is 2 axis (side by side) whereas Normal will help stabilize the up and down movement as well. If you use the normal mode, you will see the first image taken always jumps and in the sport mode there is no movement in the viewfinder. This is the same either for DSLR and Mirrorless.

This is why you can leave it in sport mode and have no issues with IQ differences at low or high shutter speeds and leaving VR Sport on.

Leonard Shepherd · Jun 1, 2022

EricK214 said:
That's because Sport mode is for panning it when riding in a truck and shooting such as if in a truck on a safari. Sport is 2 axis (side by side) whereas Normal will help stabilize the up and down movement as well.

Can you find anything from Nikon that confirms your understanding that Sport is only for panning?

You may be confusing the ability of Nikon in lens VR to detect panning and not to apply VR in the direction of a moderate speed pan.

Most Nikon VR in lens optics going back almost 20 years have had "panning direction VR disabled" ability - whereas Sport is a relatively recent mode.

Instructions for relatively recent lenses such as the 500 PF say panning motion is detected in either Normal or Sport.

For the 105 S the instructions unhelpfully say refer to the camera manual. The instructions for the 70-200 S mention Normal and Sport but do not clarify the difference.

The Z9 extended manual does not seem to clarify the difference.

The Z7 manual (first version page 112) clarifies "panning direction disabled" applies to both Sports and Normal modes.

The VR stops advantage for recent lenses like the 70-200 S in the Nikon Specification is mentioned as being for Normal mode.

This strongly indicates to me slightly less VR ability in Sport mode

EricK214 said:
If you use the normal mode, you will see the first image taken always jumps and in the sport mode there is no movement in the viewfinder. This is the same either for DSLR and Mirrorless.

This is news to me - as a user of Nikon VR lenses for around 20 years :-O

My experience is VR can occasionally cause a viewfinder "jump" - most likely after taking a shot with VR on.

I just tried the my Z7, Z9, 500 PF (VR control on lens) and 105.70-200S (VR control in the camera menus) - and hand holding I cannot detect a "jump" difference between VR/IBIS off, Normal and Sport.

--
Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than anything else.

EricK214 · Jun 1, 2022

Leonard Shepherd said:
EricK214 said:

That's because Sport mode is for panning it when riding in a truck and shooting such as if in a truck on a safari. Sport is 2 axis (side by side) whereas Normal will help stabilize the up and down movement as well.

Click to expand...

Can you find anything from Nikon that confirms your understanding that Sport is only for panning?

You may be confusing the ability of Nikon in lens VR to detect panning and not to apply VR in the direction of a moderate speed pan.

Most Nikon VR in lens optics going back almost 20 years have had "panning direction VR disabled" ability - whereas Sport is a relatively recent mode.

Instructions for relatively recent lenses such as the 500 PF say panning motion is detected in either Normal or Sport.

For the 105 S the instructions unhelpfully say refer to the camera manual. The instructions for the 70-200 S mention Normal and Sport but do not clarify the difference.

The Z9 extended manual does not seem to clarify the difference.

The Z7 manual (first version page 112) clarifies "panning direction disabled" applies to both Sports and Normal modes.

The VR stops advantage for recent lenses like the 70-200 S in the Nikon Specification is mentioned as being for Normal mode.

This strongly indicates to me slightly less VR ability in Sport mode

Leonard Shepherd said:

If you use the normal mode, you will see the first image taken always jumps and in the sport mode there is no movement in the viewfinder. This is the same either for DSLR and Mirrorless.

Click to expand...

This is news to me - as a user of Nikon VR lenses for around 20 years :-O

My experience is VR can occasionally cause a viewfinder "jump" - most likely after taking a shot with VR on.

I just tried the my Z7, Z9, 500 PF (VR control on lens) and 105.70-200S (VR control in the camera menus) - and hand holding I cannot detect a "jump" difference between VR/IBIS off, Normal and Sport.

Leonard Shepherd · Jun 1, 2022

EricK214 said:
I never said it's ONLY for planning. I said it's is for planning or was made for planning. I read this about 2 or 3 years ago so i can't find the exact place i read about VR sport mode. But my experience with it has been exactly as i have described. The link below generally explains what I'm talking about. My original read did explain the planning and example while panning riding in a truck.

https://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/d500_tips/useful/vibration_reduction/

One of the challenges is that Nikon provides very little detailed VR/IBIS information.

I have not seen the link before - and it is six years old information.

The explanation seems good; consisting of

1/ "Sport mode limits vibration reduction to the minimum needed for subjects that are moving quickly and unpredictably.

2/ When the camera is hand-held, the image in the viewfinder remains as stable and smooth as when the camera is mounted on a monopod, making subjects easier to track during panning and high-speed burst photography."

I think the link clarifies beyond reasonable doubt that sport mode reduces the strength of the VR effect (by a variable amount) offset by a more stable viewfinder experience.

Nikon's version of IBIS has been with us for almost 4 years.

Perhaps it is time Nikon updated this six year old guidance.

Lens VR and in-body stabilization shut down for certain shutter speeds.

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