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HDR (is it necessary)

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JimH123 said:
LeicaEye said:
JimH123 said:
LeicaEye said:
Went digging through the Menus (CL) yesterday, found HDR in Scene mode..Took a few shots, I usually shoot DNG, camera reverts to jpeg. Apart from higher saturation what is HDR good for? I like my images to be as near to natural as possible.. imho it seems a gimmick..L
Click to expand...
Here is an HDR that I used 3 images separated by 2EV. Here is the middle:

2a6f74668e8243d98a3fc26b01990d93.jpg

I used NIK HDR Efex Pro 2 (I'm still using the free Google release). I started with the presets and tried out a number of them to see which got me closest to what I wanted. Then moved to the right side where all the sliders were located. Went down all the sliders trying to the left and to the right and decided if I liked it better or worse and picked what I like the best. Once finished with the sliders, went through them again to see if I changed my mind on any settings.

Then went back to Lightroom where I played around a bit with Vibrance.

99e3ab26761440e79f4f7d49acaaa5ad.jpg

I don't use HDR very often, but it can produce interesting results.

By the way, I tried this image with Photomatix, Affinity, Photoshop and several others also. I liked the NIK HDR Efex Pro the best.
Click to expand...
A very interesting project, nice image. L
Click to expand...
One correction. I took three images. But for this one, I only used the middle image, and got better results than when I used all three.
Click to expand...
I will have to check my CL settings, at the moment it shoots of 3 in HDR. Regards, L

--
If you understand everything, you must be misinformed...
 
BSiler said:
Thanks for your post! I've played around a very little bit with exposure bracketing and HDR processing in Lightroom. My results haven't been very good. Would you tell us a little more about how you shot and processed the images you used to produce your very pleasing HDR image? How many images did you merge? How may stops of exposure bracketing? What HDR processing software?
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I just used Adobe Camera Raw. My full-frame Nikon D750 raw files, when shot at base ISO and 14 bits of precision, are already HDR, with lots of dynamic range that is typically lost in normal processing.

I used a flat base profile, and raised shadows and lowered highlights, as well as adding a bit of clarity: these are all based on tone mapping tools as traditionally used in HDR; they use “local contrast” adjustments that enhance detail, unlike global contrast adjustments that crush texture at the extremes of the tonal range. The flat camera profile has rather weak colors, so I added a bit of saturation.
 
I do HDR a lot, it is one of my frequently used tools.

However, if you are looking to replicate a scene, HDR might not be high on your list.

To me, HDR is a tool not only to increase the DR of a shot beyond my camera can do in one shot, it is a composite image using various lighting condition. The various way of merging, strength on tone mapping etc could create an output that can prsesnt the scene what I would like it to be. I regard this creativity, no different from applying a filter etc.

It does not always work, could produce a very interesting image under the right condition. Of course it might not appeal to everyone.
 
alcelc said:
I do HDR a lot, it is one of my frequently used tools.

However, if you are looking to replicate a scene, HDR might not be high on your list.

To me, HDR is a tool not only to increase the DR of a shot beyond my camera can do in one shot, it is a composite image using various lighting condition. The various way of merging, strength on tone mapping etc could create an output that can prsesnt the scene what I would like it to be. I regard this creativity, no different from applying a filter etc.

It does not always work, could produce a very interesting image under the right condition. Of course it might not appeal to everyone.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the reply. I also shoot raw files and process with Adobe Camera Raw. In that post-processing, I routinely make the same sorts of Lightroom adjustments you described -- I just never thought of those adjustments as yielding what others refer to as an "HDR" image. I gather you don't find much use for the Lightroom's Photo Merge -> HDR feature. As I mentioned, I haven't found that feature to produce satisfying results. Rather than using Photo Merge -> HDR, I get better results just making the usual LR adjustments to a single raw file image.

Still I wonder if I'm missing something by not shooting bracketed exposures to run through the Photo Merge -> HDR feature.
 
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LeicaEye said:
Went digging through the Menus (CL) yesterday, found HDR in Scene mode..Took a few shots, I usually shoot DNG, camera reverts to jpeg. Apart from higher saturation what is HDR good for? I like my images to be as near to natural as possible.. imho it seems a gimmick..L
Click to expand...
"HDR (is it necessary)?" not for me. I just shoot raw at base ISO.

I shoot raw and avoid blown sky/clouds. PP to lift shadows and usually reduce highlights. Sky is important to me so often I bracket to make sure I have one frame where the sky/clouds are not blown. However, I use only one of the shots as above. I would call my method "compressing the dynamic rage of the shot". It works pretty well on sunny days at base ISO and is very simple.

Bert
 
BertIverson said:
LeicaEye said:
Went digging through the Menus (CL) yesterday, found HDR in Scene mode..Took a few shots, I usually shoot DNG, camera reverts to jpeg. Apart from higher saturation what is HDR good for? I like my images to be as near to natural as possible.. imho it seems a gimmick..L
Click to expand...
"HDR (is it necessary)?" not for me. I just shoot raw at base ISO.

I shoot raw and avoid blown sky/clouds. PP to lift shadows and usually reduce highlights. Sky is important to me so often I bracket to make sure I have one frame where the sky/clouds are not blown. However, I use only one of the shots as above. I would call my method "compressing the dynamic rage of the shot". It works pretty well on sunny days at base ISO and is very simple.

Bert
Click to expand...
I hear you, whatever works for you.. on bright days I always set my ISO at 400.. L
 
LeicaEye said:
JimH123 said:
LeicaEye said:
JimH123 said:
LeicaEye said:
Went digging through the Menus (CL) yesterday, found HDR in Scene mode..Took a few shots, I usually shoot DNG, camera reverts to jpeg. Apart from higher saturation what is HDR good for? I like my images to be as near to natural as possible.. imho it seems a gimmick..L
Click to expand...
Here is an HDR that I used 3 images separated by 2EV. Here is the middle:

2a6f74668e8243d98a3fc26b01990d93.jpg

I used NIK HDR Efex Pro 2 (I'm still using the free Google release). I started with the presets and tried out a number of them to see which got me closest to what I wanted. Then moved to the right side where all the sliders were located. Went down all the sliders trying to the left and to the right and decided if I liked it better or worse and picked what I like the best. Once finished with the sliders, went through them again to see if I changed my mind on any settings.

Then went back to Lightroom where I played around a bit with Vibrance.

99e3ab26761440e79f4f7d49acaaa5ad.jpg

I don't use HDR very often, but it can produce interesting results.

By the way, I tried this image with Photomatix, Affinity, Photoshop and several others also. I liked the NIK HDR Efex Pro the best.
Click to expand...
A very interesting project, nice image. L
Click to expand...
One correction. I took three images. But for this one, I only used the middle image, and got better results than when I used all three.
Click to expand...
I will have to check my CL settings, at the moment it shoots of 3 in HDR. Regards, L
Click to expand...
If it wasn't clear, I did use NIK HDR Efex Pro on a single image in the above shot. There is a lot of dynamic range to work with in the average RAW file, and I find the results I get from this software to produce more consistent better results than at least 7 other HDR programs I have tried. It is really only necessary to resort to 3 or more images occasionally, for instance standing in a dark cave and shooting towards a bright opening.

With just 1 image, no ghosting worries. And less wear on the shutter. And fewer images to deal with. And plenty of DR in the RAW file for most situations.
 
We humans are all different and like different things. Some people like the HDR look, check out the likes on hdr pictures in Flikr etc. Some i like, the more natural ones. To me , the garish ones, no.
 
By all means experiment, but it should be used sparingly.

If the range of light in the scene falls within the normal range of the sensor, then don't. Automated HDR can tend to flatten the contrast range of a scene.

Sometimes, for example in deep forest scenes, I WANT the shadows to go dark and add to the mood. HDR is very wrong for that.
 
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Conditionally useful, more than necessary. Let me explain by example: you shooting a room interior by natural light. There's big windows and it's bright daylight. There's a great garden outside the windows. The difference between the indoor and outdoor exposure is great. Either the interior is exposed correctly and garden is bleached out, or the garden is exposed correctly and the interior is too dark. HDR balances that to a great degree. HDR can create an image that is beyond the dynamic range of the sensor.
 
LeicaEye said:
Went digging through the Menus (CL) yesterday, found HDR in Scene mode..Took a few shots, I usually shoot DNG, camera reverts to jpeg. Apart from higher saturation what is HDR good for? I like my images to be as near to natural as possible.
Click to expand...
Nope, not necessary at all. Never use it.
  • While you're at it, get rid of your wrenches; you can just use a pair of pliers.
  • You don't really need separate saws for different jobs.
  • All those different nail sizes and other fasteners? Totally superfluous. One hammer, one nail, no screwdrivers or Allen wrenches. Torx? Piffle!
  • Never use your turn signals. Hand signals were good enough for many years, just use those.
Think of how simple your life could be if you ignore the last 100 years of change.

Oh wait ... Leica. Never mind.
 
You are far more patient and gracious than am I. I am schooled.
 
When you do HDR, do you use some post-processing feature like Lightroom's Photo Merge HDR to merge multiple exposure bracketed images? Or do you make tonal and other adjustments to a single image?
 
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LeicaEye said:
I hear you, whatever works for you.. on bright days I always set my ISO at 400.. L
Click to expand...
I appreciate your humor of shooting at ISO 400 on SUNNY days. However, I stress that base ISO is necessary for my raw single shot procedure since dynamic range of sensor goes down for each upward click of the ISO. Maybe not everyone on DPR forums realizes that. So my procedure is not viable if lighting is low thus requiring high ISO.

Cheers,
Bert
 
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thinkinginimages said:
Conditionally useful, more than necessary. Let me explain by example: you shooting a room interior by natural light. There's big windows and it's bright daylight. There's a great garden outside the windows. The difference between the indoor and outdoor exposure is great. Either the interior is exposed correctly and garden is bleached out, or the garden is exposed correctly and the interior is too dark. HDR balances that to a great degree. HDR can create an image that is beyond the dynamic range of the sensor.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

However, expose for the outdoors and use interior fill flash works too. I have been doing that since my film days (60 years ago) long before HDR was invented.

However, whatever is easiest and most fun is the way to go.

Bert
 
thinkinginimages said:
Conditionally useful, more than necessary. Let me explain by example: you shooting a room interior by natural light. There's big windows and it's bright daylight. There's a great garden outside the windows. The difference between the indoor and outdoor exposure is great. Either the interior is exposed correctly and garden is bleached out, or the garden is exposed correctly and the interior is too dark. HDR balances that to a great degree. HDR can create an image that is beyond the dynamic range of the sensor.
Click to expand...
I agree, it does offer a wider dynamic range which can be tweaked. I feel that HDR images look a little over processed. Take Care L
 
BertIverson said:
thinkinginimages said:
Conditionally useful, more than necessary. Let me explain by example: you shooting a room interior by natural light. There's big windows and it's bright daylight. There's a great garden outside the windows. The difference between the indoor and outdoor exposure is great. Either the interior is exposed correctly and garden is bleached out, or the garden is exposed correctly and the interior is too dark. HDR balances that to a great degree. HDR can create an image that is beyond the dynamic range of the sensor.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

However, expose for the outdoors and use interior fill flash works too
Click to expand...
There are some differences worth mentioning though between the 2 technics.

With flash, the light may be uneven indoor, especially if there are objects close to your camera.

Secondly, the white balance is difference, not the same light. You can certainly correct this is post but you have to make local adjustements. The white balance may ne tricky in parts where the is a mix of ambient light + light. You can certainly reduce this problem with color filters.

And last, flash reduces the contrast with shadows (coming from outdoor light). HDR reduces contrast globally, it does not have a specific effect with shadows. I am just mentioning this difference, I am not saying this is bad, this might correspond to your preference in fact.

I would say these 2 technics can do more or less the same but there are major differences to be aware of.
 
Jack Tingle said:
LeicaEye said:
Went digging through the Menus (CL) yesterday, found HDR in Scene mode..Took a few shots, I usually shoot DNG, camera reverts to jpeg. Apart from higher saturation what is HDR good for? I like my images to be as near to natural as possible.
Click to expand...
Nope, not necessary at all. Never use it.
  • While you're at it, get rid of your wrenches; you can just use a pair of pliers.
  • You don't really need separate saws for different jobs.
  • All those different nail sizes and other fasteners? Totally superfluous. One hammer, one nail, no screwdrivers or Allen wrenches. Torx? Piffle!
  • Never use your turn signals. Hand signals were good enough for many years, just use those.
Think of how simple your life could be if you ignore the last 100 years of change.

Oh wait ... Leica. Never mind.
Click to expand...
🍷
 
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