Rant about "like new" used condition.

I just bought a 70-200 F4 G in "like new" condition for $1k from an online retailer who shall remain nameless. When I received the package, the lens is clearly several years old and has seen a lot of use. The zoom ring isn't super smooth, there's a lot of wear on the lens hood bayonet mount, and it doesn't have the original lens caps. But it did come in the original box with soft case and all packing materials. The optics are flawless.

I was pretty upset at first. But then I tried the lens, and it's amazingly sharp. Autofocus is fast and accurate Between 100-150 mm it's as sharp as my 100-400 GM. The GM barely edges it out at 200 mm. So I think it's a keeper.

I haven't decided if I'm going to complain to the vendor. (I just complained to them about a similar issue a couple of weeks ago and don't want to get banned from future purchases haha). I think it should have been listed in "good" condition, or am I just being too concerned about having shiny gear? I might have to do something to the lens hood to make it a tighter fit.

Different vendors may have different definitions of "like new". What exactly is the condition definition used by this particular vendor? Perhaps they only grade based on glass condition? Just saying you need to read the fine print. All used condition scales are subjective. Words like "clean", "moderate" and "normal" have room for interpretation. Normal to me and normal to you might mean very different things. Of course only my opinion is the correct one!

Did the seller provide actual images of the item? Or were you only given stock images and the seller's description of the condition? If the latter, then you certainly have reason to expect a clear and unambiguous description.

if you are dissatisfied and it is within the terms of purchase to return the lens than you should. I don't see how you could be "banned" for following the agreed to terms of sale.

I've had good luck buying from forums like here and Fred Miranda. Also from an ebay seller in Japan called MAP Camera. MAP seems to have a lot of lenses. They may not be the cheapest but they make sure to include a lot of pictures and their assessment of the glass is spot on. I've never bought a lens from an on-line seller like KEH or B&H.

I buy a lot of used lenses. Anyone posting 'like new' indicates to me that it should like it just came out of the box. I only buy lenses in very good condition so I can sell them easily later. I buy from Adorama, B&H, ebay, Kenmore, MPB, KEH and even a very expensive 500mm f/4 from a lens rental company.

If you feel that your lens condition was misrepresented then you should complain. There are a lot of lens/camera sellers that do a very good job of decribing their products, sloppy sellers should be called on the carpet. They make the others look bad by making potential buyers wary, such you have been made to feel.

I see some text decriptions on ebay that are indeed sloppy, but the photos show otherwise.

ebay sellers should have very nice photos or I pass on them. With that said, I recently sold my A mount lenses and made sure that any imperfection was highlighted in text and in a photo, if possible. No complaints from the buyers.

TomV1 said:

I buy a lot of used lenses. Anyone posting 'like new' indicates to me that it should be like it just came out of the box.

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I agree, to me "like new" means like new and includes the original box and whatever was in the box.

That said, I've only ever purchased 1 used lens.

I have purchased several used digital bodies - all were like new (except he 50 y.o. film cameras that arrived recently but they look/work fine).

I think you should complain about the condition of the lens if you clearly see signs of wear and tear on a "like new" condition lens.

One "trick" I like to use when buying on a forum is to search for posts by the seller. Often people post pictures they've taken. With a little luck you can find pictures they've taken and their opinion about the lens before they thought about selling it. If they post enough pictures you can even tell if they bought the lens recently and why they are selling it.

For example I recently bought a 200-600 that was bought new and only owned for several months. To me that could say "I'm not happy with it" but in this case the seller had his equipment listed as including an A1. Also about a week before he listed it he started posting pictures taken with a 600 f/4. He also listed the 100-400 as a lens he owned. So most likely he felt that the the 200-600 was now redundant. The pictures he posted with the 200-600 also had him talking about how great it was.

Thanks all. I did read the fine print and the lens certainly doesn't meet their description (there were no photos of this particular lens). I won't post their verbatim condition descriptions because that would identify the vendor and I don't want to drag their name through the mud (I'm sure they'll make it right). It's not a private seller.

I'm going to contact them to either ask for a discount or exchange. I bought a like new because I wanted a like new. But now I'm torn because the pictures are great and that's what really matters. Maybe another day or two will help me decide.

The Ryantist said:

Thanks all. I did read the fine print and the lens certainly doesn't meet their description (there were no photos of this particular lens). I won't post their verbatim condition descriptions because that would identify the vendor and I don't want to drag their name through the mud (I'm sure they'll make it right). It's not a private seller.

I'm going to contact them to either ask for a discount or exchange. I bought a like new because I wanted a like new. But now I'm torn because the pictures are great and that's what really matters. Maybe another day or two will help me decide.

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I would guess you will be out perhaps $100 if you decide at a later date to sell the lens and lose some value because of condition. I have purchased perhaps a dozen or more used lenses via Ebay and never had a single issue....but I only purchase items that have lots of pictures to document cosmetic condition. You have a lens that you are impressed with, I personally would raise the issue with the seller for a partial refund, but if refused keep the lens. You have a lens that you are happy with...enjoy!

LIKE NEW - means just that: no blemishes whatsoever. Feels like it has never been used. May miss the packaging, but that's all.

Clearly, you paid a premium for "LN" condition and didn't get it. I would return this without giving it a second thought.

The Ryantist said:

But now I'm torn because the pictures are great and that's what really matters.

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That's not the point. The next lens you buy will also take great pictures, but be in LN condition which is what you paid for. Would you buy a "like new" Porsche with dents, just because it still runs great? I don't think so.

PS: If you bought this through eBay, you got great buyers protection. eBay tends to favour the buyer, and sellers are afraid of negative feedback. Even if they should have stated "no returns" you will find that in practice sellers will take it back for a full refund (including your shipping expenses).

Demand a refund, don't use them again.

Yes calling it fraud is a little dramatic, but that's the literal definition - "deception intended to result in financial or personal gain."

I recently received a "like new" Sony 70-200mm f/4 lens in a trade with a reputable online used camera gear dealer and it was indeed pretty much like new. Upon close inspection, I only found a very tiny and barely noticeable chip of paint missing on the inside edge of the tripod collar ring...showing the lighter primer underneath, but otherwise it looks and functions as new. It came with the box and all the accessories.

You mentioned the zoom ring on your lens isn't exactly smooth...that would be a deal breaker for me as that indicates a potential problem with the internal workings of the lens that is far more concerning than just the cosmetics. You paid a premium for a like new lens and it should be like new. The condition of the lens you received should have been described as "good" at best. That mechanical issue with the zoom ring alone would be reason enough to return, even if the lens is sharp.

Perhaps they shipped the wrong lens in error, but I would contact them immediately and arrange to return the lens. The longer you hold on to it, the more they might complain that you must have damaged their "like new" lens while in your possession. I suppose you could give them the benefit of the doubt and have them replace the lens with another if they have one in inventory. However, you mentioned problems with an earlier purchase, so I think I would opt for the refund and shop elsewhere. The other option I can see for you would be to consider biting the bullet and buying the lens new. It might sting a little once, but then you would have the satisfaction of owning a brand-new lens complete with factory warranty. A few years ago while trying to save a little money, I opted for the Sony 70-300. While it was a decent sharp lens, I regretted not spending the extra on the 70-200 f4, the lens that I really wanted at the time and still do.

I agree with you, it's a sharp lens and I am so excited to finally own one. Some reviews mention that the lens doesn't perform quite as well at 200mm and f/4, but I sure don't see that myself as the lens I bought looks perfectly sharp at that setting. I sure love the size and weight of this lens and the focus is snappy. Additionally, I bought a 60mm Colorado Tripod Company arca plate for the lens mount and it works great for only $15. It comes in traditional black or gunmetal, which is the color I chose.

Good luck and hope you can resolve this to your satisfaction.

Mike

--
You can't buy love, but you can rescue it.

I've found that if I don't like something, in this case not as described, then it'll always bug me. Whether it's something like the focus ring not being smooth or just looks used. Sooner or later I'll end up moving on and selling it. Unless the seller can make it right I would return it.

A well used looking lens is indication to me of a well aligned lens.

A used lens that looks brand-new is likely to be misaligned

4Photos said:

The Ryantist said:

But now I'm torn because the pictures are great and that's what really matters.

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That's not the point. The next lens you buy will also take great pictures, but be in LN condition which is what you paid for. Would you buy a "like new" Porsche with dents, just because it still runs great? I don't think so.

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But with a Porsche, and other luxury items, you are paying for the cosmetic appearance of the car to turn heads as you drive your beauty around. With a lens, no one really looks at it and says, "boy that is a gorgeous lens". Of course you can turn heads with a 200-600 regardless of cosmetic condition. But there folks aren't saying "wow that lens is in like new condition", they more likely are saying, "boy that is a BIG lens".

QuietOC said:

A well used looking lens is indication to me of a well aligned lens.

A used lens that looks brand-new is likely to be misaligned

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Ooh, that's a good point. Yes, if the lens is working perfectly well, then that's really all that matters. However, if there's something "not new" with the focusing ring, it still stinks.

I've bought a few things from KEH over the years, and thought their grading was more than fair, and with a good return policy. Check the lens out immediately and send it back if something is off. And if you like it, keep it.

paul wassermann said:

4Photos said:

The Ryantist said:

But now I'm torn because the pictures are great and that's what really matters.

Click to expand...

That's not the point. The next lens you buy will also take great pictures, but be in LN condition which is what you paid for. Would you buy a "like new" Porsche with dents, just because it still runs great? I don't think so.

Click to expand...

But with a Porsche, and other luxury items, you are paying for the cosmetic appearance of the car to turn heads as you drive your beauty around. With a lens, no one really looks at it and says, "boy that is a gorgeous lens".

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... except when you are trying to sell it later for whatever reason...

OP paid for something in NEW CONDITION. He received something in GOOD condition. Instant loss of money and value. There is no reason not to return it. It't not like these are super rare items where he will be without for weeks or months to go...

GaryW said:

QuietOC said:

A well used looking lens is indication to me of a well aligned lens.

A used lens that looks brand-new is likely to be misaligned

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Ooh, that's a good point. Yes, if the lens is working perfectly well, then that's really all that matters. However, if there's something "not new" with the focusing ring, it still stinks.

I've bought a few things from KEH over the years, and thought their grading was more than fair, and with a good return policy. Check the lens out immediately and send it back if something is off. And if you like it, keep it.

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Same here, I had nothing but good experiences with KEH. No questions asked return policy. And it was very rare, that I had to return something, usually their stuff was better than described.

paul wassermann said:

4Photos said:

The Ryantist said:

But now I'm torn because the pictures are great and that's what really matters.

Click to expand...

That's not the point. The next lens you buy will also take great pictures, but be in LN condition which is what you paid for. Would you buy a "like new" Porsche with dents, just because it still runs great? I don't think so.

Click to expand...

But with a Porsche, and other luxury items, you are paying for the cosmetic appearance of the car to turn heads as you drive your beauty around. With a lens, no one really looks at it and says, "boy that is a gorgeous lens". Of course you can turn heads with a 200-600 regardless of cosmetic condition. But there folks aren't saying "wow that lens is in like new condition", they more likely are saying, "boy that is a BIG lens".

Click to expand...

I was out on a boat today in Delaware near Lewes and were were shooting all types of surf birds. I had my 200-600/a7Riv hanging from my neck and was walking into the cabin via a sliding door. The gal on the other side of the door was startled when the door opened. "Wow look at that lens. I have some jokes for that but maybe not right now". I am assuming she was remarking about the condition of the lens, not its size ;-).