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750 usd for a Noctilux :)

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eliehbk

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I wonder how much do we, as consumers put into perceived value of a brand, and the dividends marketing and image pays off for a company. Not to belittle Leica and its iconic status in the photography world, but 15 times the price of the Chinese knockoff! Maybe if I had money to burn :). In the meantime, I'll enjoy 85% of the performance for 7% of the price.

All shot with the copycat!! All at f0.95

9bfb3941b6894e06859e340009141869.jpg

73e67fe602b842ce87c6811bd417c657.jpg

2b13ddbb3f704216af506e9a462ec431.jpg

f83c411ffab6473eb1218a7e7d57dab4.jpg

989a854b267d4e52af312217f80ce7f4.jpg
 
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lightandaprayer said:
LeicaEye said:
Most of the time my sedan will do the job, when on the open road it neither has the power/road holding/brakes to be extended- my purpose build Porsche SUV will do Everything.. Yes, there is a price to pay.. Just like Leica lenses.. L
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Arguably there are less expensive options that will match the Porsche capability-wise. . .

Regarding being able to do everything, I think that it would be more accurate to say that the Porsche does everything you want/need it to do.
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I agree.. The Porsche will retain it’s value better than say a run of the mill SUV.. L
 
JDLaing50 said:
pcassel said:
In short, if the images shown in the OP were claimed to have been taken with the Noctilux, would anybody call foul?
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Not on a down rez Internet forum picture but a full sized unretouched photo on a high rez monitor……..damn right. In five or ten years time if the aperture ring is loose or the focus ring became loose or too tight you get it fixed with no questions asked.
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What does unretouched to you mean - the DNG? I'm not disagreeing with you. It's that I don't know how one can quantify image quality other than resolution ability. All these Leica convos are new to me because I'm new to Leica owning my first one a month or so ago.

Let's say the OP's images were also taken with the Leica product. What would a viewer see differently on the setup you postulate?
 
pcassel said:
JDLaing50 said:
pcassel said:
In short, if the images shown in the OP were claimed to have been taken with the Noctilux, would anybody call foul?
Click to expand...
Not on a down rez Internet forum picture but a full sized unretouched photo on a high rez monitor……..damn right. In five or ten years time if the aperture ring is loose or the focus ring became loose or too tight you get it fixed with no questions asked.
Click to expand...
What does unretouched to you mean - the DNG? I'm not disagreeing with you. It's that I don't know how one can quantify image quality other than resolution ability. All these Leica convos are new to me because I'm new to Leica owning my first one a month or so ago.

Let's say the OP's images were also taken with the Leica product. What would a viewer see differently on the setup you postulate?
Click to expand...
 
Gosh, I agree with that. I've noted such deterioration in even my stuff that I'm reluctant to post images especially since I'm trying to cultivate a style that relies on objective qualities rather than subjective ones. That is, I snap mundane subjects most of the time.
 
I beg to differ. If you compare a BMW 330 and a Toyota Camry, I'd say the price difference is justifiable, probably twice the price. If you compare your Macan or Cayenne, the 2 or 3 times premium over a 4runner is also justifiable. Here, we are talking about 16 times the price, and no, it's not justifiable. Of course, it is if you have the money and willing to spend it, and it might be somehow justifiable since Leica lenses tend to hold their value. However, comparing a sedan to a Cayenne is a different analogy, sure both get you from A to B but one has more power, technology, driving experience. Between the TTartisans and Noctilux not so much difference. How do I know, I owned both. In fact, I'm sure that if I blind folded someone or duck tapped them then you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, even from a build standpoint. I know some people will not be happy with my analogy because they own the 12k lenses, and good for them, they own a piece of Photographie history, however, my analogy still stands.
 
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I ahve a brother who owned 11 Porsches the past 10 years and a cousin who is the head of Porsche North-East in the US and can tell you that any Porsche except the limited series like a GT2rs, GT, or any other limited edition they tend to lose &$$& loads of money, more so than your "run of the mill" 4runner or wrangler. This is the one area where Leica actually shines - retaining their value and even appreciating.
 
eliehbk said:
I beg to differ. If you compare a BMW 330 and a Toyota Camry, I'd say the price difference is justifiable, probably twice the price. If you compare your Macan or Cayenne, the 2 or 3 times premium over a 4runner is also justifiable. Here, we are talking about 16 times the price, and no, it's not justifiable. Of course, it is if you have the money and willing to spend it, and it might be somehow justifiable since Leica lenses tend to hold their value. However, comparing a sedan to a Cayenne is a different analogy, sure both get you from A to B but one has more power, technology, driving experience. Between the TTartisans and Noctilux not so much difference. How do I know, I owned both. In fact, I'm sure that if I blind folded someone or duck tapped them then you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, even from a build standpoint. I know some people will not be happy with my analogy because they own the 12k lenses, and good for them, they own a piece of Photographie history, however, my analogy still stands.
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I in no way dispute your views.. Very probably in 99% of cases when viewing the 3rd party lens images, there will be no discerning difference. For those that are anal about IQ, it's the 1% that matters.. Cost aside.. Take Care L
 
eliehbk said:
I ahve a brother who owned 11 Porsches the past 10 years and a cousin who is the head of Porsche North-East in the US and can tell you that any Porsche except the limited series like a GT2rs, GT, or any other limited edition they tend to lose &$$& loads of money, more so than your "run of the mill" 4runner or wrangler. This is the one area where Leica actually shines - retaining their value and even appreciating.
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I would agree with you (We as a family owned 3 Auto Dealerships in the UK).. L
 
LeicaEye said:
I agree.. The Porsche will retain it’s value better than say a run of the mill SUV.. L
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A Porsche Cayenne 5-year depreciation is around 54%. A Toyota Land Cruiser (discontinued after the 2021 model year) depreciates around 43%. The Land Cruiser was about equal to the Cayenne price-wise when brand new.

Of course, it should not surprise anyone that the insurance and operating costs of the Cayenne are higher than the Toyota . . For example, the maintenance cost of a Cayenne during the first 10 years is more than 3 times the cost of a Land Cruiser ($20,552 vs. $6782).

Porsche Cayenne Depreciation

For those of use with U.S. middle-class incomes, a Toyota 4 Runner or Highlander is a more logical purchase. In 5 years they depreciate around 39% and 35% respectively.
 
lightandaprayer said:
LeicaEye said:
I agree.. The Porsche will retain it’s value better than say a run of the mill SUV.. L
Click to expand...
A Porsche Cayenne 5-year depreciation is around 54%. A Toyota Land Cruiser (discontinued after the 2021 model year) depreciates around 43%. The Land Cruiser was about equal to the Cayenne price-wise when brand new.

Of course, it should not surprise anyone that the insurance and operating costs of the Cayenne are higher than the Toyota . . For example, the maintenance cost of a Cayenne during the first 10 years is more than 3 times the cost of a Land Cruiser ($20,552 vs. $6782).

Porsche Cayenne Depreciation

For those of use with U.S. middle-class incomes, a Toyota 4 Runner or Highlander is a more logical purchase. In 5 years they depreciate around 39% and 35% respectively.
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You are talking about chalk & cheese.. of course the Porsche will cost more in every respect, inherently totally different vehicles.. L
 
Agreed :)
 
LeicaEye said:
LeicaEye wrote:y.

You are talking about chalk & cheese.. of course the Porsche will cost more in every respect, inherently totally different vehicles.. L
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Of course but the main topic is depreciation. . . And the Porsche Cayenne and Toyota Land Cruiser have virtually identical base prices, so the Porsche does not cost more in every respect.
 
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lightandaprayer said:
lightandaprayer said:
LeicaEye wrote:y.

You are talking about chalk & cheese.. of course the Porsche will cost more in every respect, inherently totally different vehicles.. L
Click to expand...
Of course but the main topic is depreciation. . . And the Porsche Cayenne and Toyota Land Cruiser have virtually identical base prices, so the Porsche does not cost more in every respect.
Click to expand...
Never met a Porsche owner buying a base model! I think maybe you need to do a little more research.. if you have say $2.3 million in the bank, your figures relating to depreciation are insignificant.. L
 
LeicaEye said:
lightandaprayer said:
LeicaEye said:
LeicaEye wrote:y.

You are talking about chalk & cheese.. of course the Porsche will cost more in every respect, inherently totally different vehicles.. L
Click to expand...
Of course but the main topic is depreciation. . . And the Porsche Cayenne and Toyota Land Cruiser have virtually identical base prices, so the Porsche does not cost more in every respect.
Click to expand...
Never met a Porsche owner buying a base model! I think maybe you need to do a little more research.. if you have say $2.3 million in the bank, your figures relating to depreciation are insignificant.. L
Click to expand...
The difference in price due to expensive options do nothing but inflate the cost. . . And the depreciation I quoted aren't my figures. They are available online from reputable sources and they are based on reported resale prices.

I think that automobile options will have little if any appreciable effect on depreciation. At any rate, none of the depreciation sources that I have seen reference options in determining annual depreciation, probably for that very reason. It comes down to a basic financial reality: the more someone spends on a vehicle, the more money they lose due to depreciation.

Most vehicles depreciate over time with very few exceptions. . . From what I have read, many expensive vehicles depreciate a lot over time. On the other hand, one example of a vehicle that has some of the lowest depreciation in the U.S. is the Toyota FJ Cruiser. It is no longer sold new in the U.S. (since the 2014 model year) and yet it remains highly desirable on the used market.

To be fair, we should stick with mass-produced vehicles and omit "classic" rides and other unique examples that have appreciated in value.
 
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I love the pictures, great work!

Won't comment on the brands cos honestly if you didn't say this was shot with TT I wouldn't have known/ don't really care lol

I only care about what I personally use :-D
 
pcassel said:
JDLaing50 said:
pcassel said:
In short, if the images shown in the OP were claimed to have been taken with the Noctilux, would anybody call foul?
Click to expand...
Not on a down rez Internet forum picture but a full sized unretouched photo on a high rez monitor……..damn right. In five or ten years time if the aperture ring is loose or the focus ring became loose or too tight you get it fixed with no questions asked.
Click to expand...
What does unretouched to you mean - the DNG? I'm not disagreeing with you. It's that I don't know how one can quantify image quality other than resolution ability. All these Leica convos are new to me because I'm new to Leica owning my first one a month or so ago.

Let's say the OP's images were also taken with the Leica product. What would a viewer see differently on the setup you postulate?
Click to expand...
Much more detail in shadows. The true image captured without light levels changed. The forum greatly reduces the quality provably to save space and bandwidth.
 
Agreed. It's hard with a manual focus lens at such wide apertures to react in time.
 
Great pics. One thing that I noticed from real Leica users that know what they are doing (ie. they don't buy these lenses because they are insecure, but rather, because they like using them) is they will cheer that have you have this $750 choice. Imagine owning a Ferrari, and someone saying they this other car that speeds up 0-60 like the Ferrari. The Ferrari is likely to be built to perfection, harder to drive, less fuel efficient, and just the feeling of exactly how it accelerates and the entire car reacts be much different from your. Kudos! They are not in race against you. Each is driving to their own pleasure and we are both happy! As a side note, there's NO GOOD REASON not to own this $750 plus a Noctilux that I know, other than $12000 being a huge lot to some ;-)
 
eliehbk said:
I wonder how much do we, as consumers put into perceived value of a brand, and the dividends marketing and image pays off for a company. Not to belittle Leica and its iconic status in the photography world, but 15 times the price of the Chinese knockoff! Maybe if I had money to burn :). In the meantime, I'll enjoy 85% of the performance for 7% of the price.

All shot with the copycat!! All at f0.95

9bfb3941b6894e06859e340009141869.jpg

73e67fe602b842ce87c6811bd417c657.jpg

2b13ddbb3f704216af506e9a462ec431.jpg

f83c411ffab6473eb1218a7e7d57dab4.jpg

989a854b267d4e52af312217f80ce7f4.jpg
Click to expand...
Looks great in black and whitel.

What does color look like with this lens??
 
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