Interesting AF comparison A1 vs Z9 vs R3

Get the A7IV for now, I can't prove it but I think it's af is even better than the A1, ...
You think that due to gut feeling? Reading tee leaves? Comparing them in the same situation?
Yes, it's probably not so in reality!
correct, there is no scenario where the a7iv has better af than an a1.
The thing is because I had the A1 I sort of thought ok I can get the FE 100-400 and crop to 600, so really that's where everything falls down imo,
i don't see how cropping a photo is relevant to an af comparison between two cameras.

and of course you can't zoom with a sensor, because zooming is strictly a function of focal length.
Couple of things I like over the A1;

EVF, again, having such high resolution you really need absolute top notch lenses all the time,
hi-rez evf is always better with all lenses, regardless of how good the p.q. is.
 
What's weird is I can pick up the A7iv and the 200-600 a combination I have zero to no experience with except the menu similarities with the A1 and get great results for a spot of very erratic and timid tiny birding, yet the A1 with 100-400/70-180 proved more unreliable and less confident with larger birds like Gannett and Puffins, weird!
please post full-size ooc jpeg photo sequences that demonstrate these a1 issues you keep referring to.

"I've used my a74 with the 200-600 3 times.
Twice for ducks and swans, once for long eared owls.

1400 shots of ducks and swans, when the ducks (mallards) fly towards me, about 30% of the time, the eye AF kicked in.
But only when the ducks got within 25 feet of me.

For standing swans, (trumpeter) black bill, black eye, the eye AF focused of the nostril more often than the eye, and that wasn't very often. The owls shocked me. Their eyes are gold in color, are large and should be an easy hit.
Out of 800 shots, very few times did the eye AF kick in." https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1737732

pmr reviewed the a7iv and found it severely lacking for action/bif use, for all of the obvious reasons like extremely slow sensor readout causing blackout/frame duplication in the evf that makes visually tracking an object difficult, lots of rolling shutter distortion, etc.
 
Watch the clip within the video from 3:37sec mark at 0.25 speed in YouTube to see the difference in performance of the 3 top cameras.
A potential conjuring trick as he shows the viewfinder display, but not the resulting images.

It could be that the A1 is optimistic and the others pessimistic about when they acquire acceptable focus.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not an A1 knocker. In fact I'm thinking of getting one as it is less bulky than the others, but also wondering, given Sony's turnover, whether I should wait for the A2, which could leapfrog the others.)
Get the A7IV for now, I can't prove it but I think it's af is even better than the A1, I also like the image quality of the A7IV better than any of the HR sensors like the A1/Z7II and R5.
the r5 has weaker p.q. because it uses noise reduction at the lowest iso ranges, which lowers resolution, you can see it in the dpr studio shots, it's pretty bad.

beyond that tho fewer pixels on the a7iv translate into weaker cropping ability and no benefits from downsampling, so i don't see where the a7iv has better p.q. than the a1.

the pdr comparisons show one a7iv bump up at iso400, but the rest of the differences vs. a1 are within the margin of error: https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon Z 7,Sony ILCE-1,Sony ILCE-7M4
 
What's weird is I can pick up the A7iv and the 200-600 a combination I have zero to no experience with except the menu similarities with the A1 and get great results for a spot of very erratic and timid tiny birding, yet the A1 with 100-400/70-180 proved more unreliable and less confident with larger birds like Gannett and Puffins, weird!
please post full-size ooc jpeg photo sequences that demonstrate these a1 issues you keep referring to.

"I've used my a74 with the 200-600 3 times.
Twice for ducks and swans, once for long eared owls.

1400 shots of ducks and swans, when the ducks (mallards) fly towards me, about 30% of the time, the eye AF kicked in.
But only when the ducks got within 25 feet of me.

For standing swans, (trumpeter) black bill, black eye, the eye AF focused of the nostril more often than the eye, and that wasn't very often. The owls shocked me. Their eyes are gold in color, are large and should be an easy hit.
Out of 800 shots, very few times did the eye AF kick in." https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1737732

pmr reviewed the a7iv and found it severely lacking for action/bif use, for all of the obvious reasons like extremely slow sensor readout causing blackout/frame duplication in the evf that makes visually tracking an object difficult, lots of rolling shutter distortion, etc.
OK, I need to test the bif myself, but things like this were a typical thing in my experience, I can post other scenarios with smaller static birds too were it just refused to grab eyes.

View attachment 3ea642e893834ed185b5d665299893f8.jpg



a0ff9fcd57124d7788d7a752f3b3cb26.jpg

Like I said this was the 100-400, would the 200-600 behave differently?
 
Watch the clip within the video from 3:37sec mark at 0.25 speed in YouTube to see the difference in performance of the 3 top cameras.
A potential conjuring trick as he shows the viewfinder display, but not the resulting images.

It could be that the A1 is optimistic and the others pessimistic about when they acquire acceptable focus.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not an A1 knocker. In fact I'm thinking of getting one as it is less bulky than the others, but also wondering, given Sony's turnover, whether I should wait for the A2, which could leapfrog the others.)
Get the A7IV for now, I can't prove it but I think it's af is even better than the A1, I also like the image quality of the A7IV better than any of the HR sensors like the A1/Z7II and R5.
the r5 has weaker p.q. because it uses noise reduction at the lowest iso ranges, which lowers resolution, you can see it in the dpr studio shots, it's pretty bad.
Probably down to the aa filter as well!
beyond that tho fewer pixels on the a7iv translate into weaker cropping ability and no benefits from downsampling, so i don't see where the a7iv has better p.q. than the a1.
Does resolution equate to picture quality? No, it's a factor but not exclusive element!
the pdr comparisons show one a7iv bump up at iso400, but the rest of the differences vs. a1 are within the margin of error: https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon Z 7,Sony ILCE-1,Sony ILCE-7M4
All I'm saying is the image quality seems more appealing, the reason and factors behind that I'm investigating :)
 
Nikon Z9 vs Canon R3 vs Sony a1: AMAZING!! - YouTube
The link you've posted is from the Northrop clickbait franchise.

It would have been nice if you'd have mentioned that, as it would have saved me the trouble of clicking on it. I've adopted a practice of avoiding the uniformly clueless, sensationalist and/or self-serving drivel they dish up.

--
Former Canon, Nikon and Pentax user.
https://500px.com/raycologon
https://www.instagram.com/raycologon
 
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The 3 cameras on show didn't do well with motorsport panning, high fps is impossible at low shutter speeds
What did you expect? 30 fps and shutter speed 1/8 sec? With shutter release priority you get the maximum possible speed.
A1 has halos on the edges in jpg, have seen thos too and it can carry over into the raw
Well, files from all cameras shows flaws when pushed hard. And all cameras can deliver beautiful files when they are set up correctly for the specific task, unless there are limitations like autofocus speed for very fast action.
 
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Nikon Z9 vs Canon R3 vs Sony a1: AMAZING!! - YouTube
The link you've posted is from the Northrop clickbait franchise.

It would have been nice if you'd have mentioned that, as it would have saved me the trouble of clicking on it. I've adopted a practice of avoiding the uniformly clueless, sensationalist and/or self-serving drivel they dish up.
That's why I told him off too. I didn't even open it. I consider it poor form to post an unexplained link to a video without at least telling us what he concluded from watching it. Also, if it is more than 1 minute long, give us a timestamp to the most pertinent bit.
 
Nikon Z9 vs Canon R3 vs Sony a1: AMAZING!! - YouTube
The link you've posted is from the Northrop clickbait franchise.

It would have been nice if you'd have mentioned that, as it would have saved me the trouble of clicking on it. I've adopted a practice of avoiding the uniformly clueless, sensationalist and/or self-serving drivel they dish up.

--
Former Canon, Nikon and Pentax user.
https://500px.com/raycologon
https://www.instagram.com/raycologon
It seemed reasonable, certainly their A1 experience and observations were accurate and unbiased and I'd agree with them 100%. Their comments were informed and actually pointed to a lot of the problems with high fps shooting.

The Z9/R3 are too big anyway for most people, so they are for real dedicated enthusiasts of specific genres or pro workhorse's who won't accept any compromise. The A1 can be discrete or it can be a tiger, its a proper chameleon!

Right now I think the R5 sounds better than R3, they said as much too but I didn't like Canon's rf lenses, 70-200's dont take tc's and 100-500 is way overpriced and tc can only be used from 300mm and has to be removed to be restored!

Nikon has some nice glass but need a dumbed down Z9 in a Z7 shell!

Personally I'm liking the A7iv 👍
 
Not sure what you find amazing but you have to acknowledge some of their findings!

High fps is an absolute pita to work through!
You don't have to shoot that fast. Nor do you apparently need any of these cameras.
R3 seems to be lagging R5, ouch
For wildlife some may consider the R5 better due it's higher resolution. AF and rolling shutter are much worse, though.
A1 has halos on the edges in jpg, have seen thos too and it can carry over into the raw
That's nonsense. There is no "carry over into the raw" of JPEG sharpening. The only thing sharpened in the RAW would be the preview thumbnail, which won't be used by your RAW converter.

Also, I don't shoot JPEG, but I'm quite sure you can adjust the level of sharpening to whatever your liking.
 
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Not sure what you find amazing but you have to acknowledge some of their findings!

High fps is an absolute pita to work through!
You don't have to shoot that fast. Nor do you apparently need any of these cameras.
I know you can reduce the A1 fps, that's how I was using it most if not all of the time, with 3rd part lenses its at most 15fps usually a lot less though!

For info the R5 only shoots 20fps in es, 1 or 20 so I was back to 8 ms anyway as 20fps was too much too, still some rs too when tracking. The R3 apparently has some additional fps options but af doesn't sound as good as R5!

Anyway, Canon aside, Z9 seems well thought out but its a monster so that's not even an option for me which leaves A1, then came tge 7 iv 🙂
R3 seems to be lagging R5, ouch
For wildlife some may consider the R5 better due it's higher resolution. AF and rolling shutter are much worse, though.
I know👍
A1 has halos on the edges in jpg, have seen thos too and it can carry over into the raw
That's nonsense. There is no "carry over into the raw" of JPEG sharpening. The only thing sharpened in the RAW would be the preview thumbnail, which won't be used by your RAW converter.

Also, I don't shoot JPEG, but I'm quite sure you can adjust the level of sharpening to whatever your liking.
Sure, but Im not so convinced by A1 iq overall, A7iv seems better🤨
 
The 3 cameras on show didn't do well with motorsport panning, high fps is impossible at low shutter speeds
What did you expect? 30 fps and shutter speed 1/8 sec? With shutter release priority you get the maximum possible speed.
I just checked a7iv, 1/30 =10fps
A1 has halos on the edges in jpg, have seen thos too and it can carry over into the raw
Well, files from all cameras shows flaws when pushed hard. And all cameras can deliver beautiful files when they are set up correctly for the specific task, unless there are limitations like autofocus speed for very fast action.
Never said they don't!
 
Not sure what you find amazing but you have to acknowledge some of their findings!

High fps is an absolute pita to work through!
You don't have to shoot that fast. Nor do you apparently need any of these cameras.
I know you can reduce the A1 fps, that's how I was using it most if not all of the time, with 3rd part lenses its at most 15fps usually a lot less though!

For info the R5 only shoots 20fps in es, 1 or 20 so I was back to 8 ms anyway as 20fps was too much too, still some rs too when tracking. The R3 apparently has some additional fps options but af doesn't sound as good as R5!

Anyway, Canon aside, Z9 seems well thought out but its a monster so that's not even an option for me which leaves A1, then came tge 7 iv 🙂
R3 seems to be lagging R5, ouch
For wildlife some may consider the R5 better due it's higher resolution. AF and rolling shutter are much worse, though.
I know👍
A1 has halos on the edges in jpg, have seen thos too and it can carry over into the raw
That's nonsense. There is no "carry over into the raw" of JPEG sharpening. The only thing sharpened in the RAW would be the preview thumbnail, which won't be used by your RAW converter.

Also, I don't shoot JPEG, but I'm quite sure you can adjust the level of sharpening to whatever your liking.
Sure, but Im not so convinced by A1 iq overall, A7iv seems better🤨
You keep saying variations of that, but I'm struggling to fathom what you could mean by it.

Reported PDR of the a7iv and the a1 are within the range of measurement error. The a1 sensor resolution is substantially higher and its scan rate is an order of magnitude higher. The IBIS implementation appears comparable. These are the main determinants of IQ WRT the camera/sensor.

It's possible that the JPG formulation has been tweaked, but most of us wouldn't regard that as an IQ improvement overall (esp. since most of us shoot RAW primarily or exclusively).

What is it that you think you are seeing that the rest of us are missing?
 
A1 has halos on the edges in jpg, have seen thos too and it can carry over into the raw
That's nonsense. There is no "carry over into the raw" of JPEG sharpening. The only thing sharpened in the RAW would be the preview thumbnail, which won't be used by your RAW converter.

Also, I don't shoot JPEG, but I'm quite sure you can adjust the level of sharpening to whatever your liking.
Sure, but Im not so convinced by A1 iq overall, A7iv seems better🤨
That is a surprising statement. I'm unaware of *any* significant IQ advantage of the A7iv. Except maybe if you prefer lower resolution. Have you shot them side by side?
 
What's weird is I can pick up the A7iv and the 200-600 a combination I have zero to no experience with except the menu similarities with the A1 and get great results for a spot of very erratic and timid tiny birding, yet the A1 with 100-400/70-180 proved more unreliable and less confident with larger birds like Gannett and Puffins, weird!
please post full-size ooc jpeg photo sequences that demonstrate these a1 issues you keep referring to.

"I've used my a74 with the 200-600 3 times.
Twice for ducks and swans, once for long eared owls.

1400 shots of ducks and swans, when the ducks (mallards) fly towards me, about 30% of the time, the eye AF kicked in.
But only when the ducks got within 25 feet of me.

For standing swans, (trumpeter) black bill, black eye, the eye AF focused of the nostril more often than the eye, and that wasn't very often. The owls shocked me. Their eyes are gold in color, are large and should be an easy hit.
Out of 800 shots, very few times did the eye AF kick in." https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1737732
OK, I need to test the bif myself, but things like this were a typical thing in my experience, I can post other scenarios with smaller static birds too were it just refused to grab eyes.
see above, people are not reporting a7iv bird af results that agree with what you claim.
i asked for photo sequences, not a cherry-picked worst case single photo.

and that photo was taken back in july, before the a1 firmware update on 12/01/2021, so it's not a valid test case.
 
Not sure what you find amazing but you have to acknowledge some of their findings!

High fps is an absolute pita to work through!

The 3 cameras on show didn't do well with motorsport panning, high fps is impossible at low shutter speeds
really did they try a dslr they would notice something far more hindering ie long blackout actually i thought this had a lot to do with sensor speed scanning and the ability to do this and keep up with the frame rate at guess i am not sure you could shoot at a lot lower than 1/50th and keep 30fps ,but then the lowest read out sensor camera came out best the r3
R3 seems to be lagging R5, ouch
R5 still very relevant and way cheaper
A1 has halos on the edges in jpg, have seen thos too and it can carry over into the raw
mmm not really seen it myself
My take-away, I'm enjoying the A7iv a lot better than I ever did the A1, especially the image quality which imo is better than R5/Z7ii too 👍
good for you i always wanted to replace my a7r3 with the a74 .

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58365044@N05/
 
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The test is showing us the live view update of the tracking box. It's been my understanding that the cameras treat that somewhat differently and do not "exactly" report what is or is not in focus. Still useful, but perhaps not a true reflection of the AF hit rate or stickiness as much as the live view stickiness...
 

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