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Interesting AF comparison A1 vs Z9 vs R3
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Dspider
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sunnycal
Leading Member
A lot of it depends on AF configuration and sensitivity settings. The AF sensitivity, responsiveness, coordination with eye detection and tracking system, can work very differently for different conditions.
If in a given test one camera did better then the other, it likely means that it's settings were optimal for that situation. It is not necessarily true that the cameras is better in absolute sense
paul cool
Senior Member
point is they all work ,so no debating over tracking even if the canon and nikon get on the background when jared pop back in frame they grab him ,lets be honest no one now believes sony holds a auto focus tracking advantage over nikon or canon ,you are buying these cameras for other reasons .Problem is you could buy most sony cameras and get comparable results to these flagships.the problem with generalizations like that is that they aren't always accurate, that's why it's called a generalization.
true, we see that in the framegrabs below, but the o.p. emphasized a1 stickyness in his post, and there is little question that the a1 wins there by a solid margin, it's obvious by the blurring in the photos.
see the sequence where jared was jumping in and out of the frame, the a1 is the only camera to hold the position of the focus plane, so he's immediately in focus when he jumps back into the frame, ala the first comparison below.
the following comparison where he jumps out of the frame was taken a second later per the timecode, and the z9/r3 both immediately jump focus to the fence in the background.
the r3 doesn't even attempt to follow his travel to the right side of the frame, vs. the other two cameras that have focus boxes on the right edge of the frame.
stickyness can of course be tweaked in firmware.
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Tristimulus
Veteran Member
Would go for the camera that accept my lenses anyway.
All are good cameras, different processors and algorithms. Guess the test results would differ wildly based on who is testing. The personal interaction can be erratic. :-D
Only a fool would not get the keepers needed with any of these cameras.
lattesweden
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But is it necessary to spend system resources in a camera on finding an eye vs just the face on longer distances? The DOF should cover it fine? Was there any hitrate differences between them?
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filipwphoto
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I have got sony a1 and I conducted multiple tests with animal and human eye AF using the following lenses
Sony fe 85 1.8
Sony fe 35 1.4 GM
sony fe 24-105
I had either dog or a person running at me and the results are not as satisfying as I would expect from viewing videos like the jared's one.
In viewfinder the box stays on the eye but many of the shots are out of focus. Sometimes as many as half. Sometimes it is slightly off focus somtimes the photos are unusable. Even when I shoot at f4 I get off focus photos.
Different settings/ different tracking sens etc.
Some of the jared's photos are slightly off focus, mine are way more : (
Sony fe 85 1.8
Sony fe 35 1.4 GM
sony fe 24-105
I had either dog or a person running at me and the results are not as satisfying as I would expect from viewing videos like the jared's one.
In viewfinder the box stays on the eye but many of the shots are out of focus. Sometimes as many as half. Sometimes it is slightly off focus somtimes the photos are unusable. Even when I shoot at f4 I get off focus photos.
Different settings/ different tracking sens etc.
Some of the jared's photos are slightly off focus, mine are way more : (
M
Malling
Guest
when the face is that far off the entire face will be in focus no matter what part the box is located on the face. So it doesn’t really matter that it doesn’t track the eye that far away.
Also the box isn’t as representative as one would be lead to think. There has been plenty of examples of a box sticking the right place but that when checking the actual photo it’s a different place so take these boxes with a pinch of salt, and the opposite have been proved to be the case.
All are great, hopefully this debate can die for ever now.
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M
Malling
Guest
These test are way to often rigged in a way so the cameras do much better then IRL, don’t trust these paid reviewers. Your not gonna get the results these get with any of these unless you do what they do, and we don’t know how many teat they have conducted before getting 90 or so percentage success rate.
not applicable here, because the fro video specified that all cameras were set for maximum stickyness, and the a1 clearly does that better than the z9/r3.
we were discussing how sticky the af is, not af in an absolute sense.
but there is plenty of user feedback on that as well:
"I just came back from Florida. Spent 2 weeks mainly photographing birds. My friend shot with Z9 and I was using Sony A1. I tried the Z9 as well. We also met Mark Smith while shooting. After 30K images shot each with Z9 and A1, the consensus of all of us who used both cameras is that the Z9 AF needs tweaking a bit with firmware. It’s overall very close to A1 but there were many missed focus shots with Z9 compared to A1. It’s struggling a bit more with busy backgrounds. Overall the Z9 build is better than A1. Z9 had very good ergonomics but customization is limited... I was using Sony 100-400 and 600 f/4. My friend had the Nikon 100-400, 500 pf and 600 f/4 (last version)" https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1727255/22
no, unstacked sensor cameras do not have comparable af to the a1, or the z9/r3 for that matter.
you can download the jpg photos that jared polin shot with all cameras, see the a1 advantage for yourself.
in fact someone did that and put some of 'em in a youtube video, the a1 has notably more keepers than the other two cameras.
there is an argument that the slow stepper motors in the nikon lenses couldn't keep up as well when the target is moving so fast towards the camera.
SilvanBromide
Veteran Member
Huh? But still *what*?!!Yeah... but still
If Sony have decided to finesse their on-screen feedback to cease displaying an eyeAF focus icon at the point (distance from subject) where DOF considerations make it no longer meaningful (i.e. the point at which there is in fact no actual eyeAF occurring), that's both accurate and appropriate. To do otherwise would mislead the photographer about what is going on (and, in fact, what is possible given the laws of optics).
Seems kinda in keeping with the whole "experts on the internet" thing that Sony would be dinged for a more accurate and/or appropriate AF feedback algorithm, and their competitor(s) lauded for a lower level of sophistication. Oh well... ; )
SilvanBromide
Veteran Member
Stepper motors would not help, but its hard to say how much they contribute to this particular result.
Regardless, what's being compared is (inevitably) the three *systems*, since a camera body can't do AF without a lens attached -- and the Z 50mm f1.2 seems like the sort of lens you'd want the camera to nail eye focus with, so the Z9 performance with that lens mounted seems a reasonable basis for testing and comparison.
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paul cool
Senior Member
that is not very convincing for the Z9 but they all had moments of failure ,thing is jared is like they all look good to him ,well ok no point in doing the test if that is the case and he does not think a few dropped focused images matter ok probably not but that is more than few dropped images ,yeah we get it jared does not want to get technical ,but wants to steer a lot of attention to himself job done.
SilvanBromide
Veteran Member
Actually, it does matter - quite a lot.
The whole point of shooting fast bursts (e.g. 30 fps) is to get THE shot - the one where the tip of the wing just touches the water, or the one where the ball is glancing off the edge of the bat --- etc.
If you get (say) 35 shots and go through and find "that one shot that matters" and it happens to be out of focus, then the whole point is moot and you might as well have used a much cheaper/slower camera.
Obviously, Jared Polin doesn't shoot in situations where high burst rates are really called for, or he would know this. Besides which, he seemed to be at pains to gloss over and minimize the shortcomings of the Z9 that his tests exposed (which I suppose means he's gravitated back towards his customary "Nikon zealot" status - just a wild guess...).
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paul cool
Senior Member
Maybe due to stacked sensor being able to do more calculations per sec ,but i doubt in this situation it would matter .
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daran
Senior Member
Your doubt is based on what? The time needed to read an exposure and rewind the mechanical shutter is time lost for tracking.
paul cool
Senior Member
depends on shutter speeds if it is say 1/1000th of sec i can not imagine it being to much of a problem ,yes slow shutter speeds it could make a huge difference.
daran
Senior Member
Shutter speeds usually don't matter, as they are usually much faster than the sensor read speed (1/15s to 1/60s for non-stacked sensors).
M
Malling
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