Panther G4 Upgrade Problems/Benefits?

Michael Ray White

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I also posted a similar query for Photoshop CS as I am not one to change for change sake. I am wondering what actual day to day benefits, if any, users have experienced with a Panther upgrade to a G4. In addition to several G3 Emacs used by my staff, I have a G4 1.25dp, a G4 1.42dp and a Titanium G4 1Ghz.

Although several have reported no problems with the installation, there are others who HAVE had problems and nobody has said it is such a great improvement in any area that it makes me want to take the time, spend the money and risk disrupting the balance I have now.

My understanding is that it will be of great benefit to G5 users and that there will be more "pep" in the finder, which would be nice, but any other real world benefits?
 
The overall speed increase is a real world benefit. It isn't just a matter of "pep", you realize how much faster you start to work when there is no delay in the little things going on.

Expose is also one of those things that just reading about it does it no real justice. You have to use it for a while and you will find it indispensible.

This is not "just for the G5". My laptop is a completely different machine.

I suggest upgrading.
I also posted a similar query for Photoshop CS as I am not one to
change for change sake. I am wondering what actual day to day
benefits, if any, users have experienced with a Panther upgrade to
a G4. In addition to several G3 Emacs used by my staff, I have a G4
1.25dp, a G4 1.42dp and a Titanium G4 1Ghz.

Although several have reported no problems with the installation,
there are others who HAVE had problems and nobody has said it is
such a great improvement in any area that it makes me want to take
the time, spend the money and risk disrupting the balance I have
now.

My understanding is that it will be of great benefit to G5 users
and that there will be more "pep" in the finder, which would be
nice, but any other real world benefits?
 
This is not "just for the G5". My laptop is a completely different
machine.

I suggest upgrading.
I also posted a similar query for Photoshop CS as I am not one to
change for change sake. I am wondering what actual day to day
benefits, if any, users have experienced with a Panther upgrade to
a G4. In addition to several G3 Emacs used by my staff, I have a G4
1.25dp, a G4 1.42dp and a Titanium G4 1Ghz.

Although several have reported no problems with the installation,
there are others who HAVE had problems and nobody has said it is
such a great improvement in any area that it makes me want to take
the time, spend the money and risk disrupting the balance I have
now.

My understanding is that it will be of great benefit to G5 users
and that there will be more "pep" in the finder, which would be
nice, but any other real world benefits?
I have just upgraded a G4 Powerbook and a dual G4 similar to yours. Speed is a definitely noticeable improvement - booting, launching, shutting down. I concur absolutely with the review of Expose - once you use it, you wonder how we survived without it. There is a learning curve (when isn't there?) - but it does not seem steep. There are multiple sources out there to help if you have a problem (such as a Firewire disc). Airport seems more robust, Mail is improved from good to very good - and so on. The accumulated benefits seem more than worthwhile.
--
5700, 995
patrickh
 
Hi Michael
I'm certainly going to wait a while before upgrading to CS.

But Panther really does seem worthwhile - the finder is an instant improvement (even before I've really learned the differences)

There are surprising issues as well - Virtual PC (which I do need) seems to be four or five times as fast as before on my 17"

I'm getting increasingly enthusuastic as I find the new bits.

kind regards
jono slack
I also posted a similar query for Photoshop CS as I am not one to
change for change sake. I am wondering what actual day to day
benefits, if any, users have experienced with a Panther upgrade to
a G4. In addition to several G3 Emacs used by my staff, I have a G4
1.25dp, a G4 1.42dp and a Titanium G4 1Ghz.

Although several have reported no problems with the installation,
there are others who HAVE had problems and nobody has said it is
such a great improvement in any area that it makes me want to take
the time, spend the money and risk disrupting the balance I have
now.

My understanding is that it will be of great benefit to G5 users
and that there will be more "pep" in the finder, which would be
nice, but any other real world benefits?
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Just two improvements make the upgrade worthwhile, one is opening Fuji RAW files and being able to endlessly tweak them , and one cool addition - Adjustments Shadows/Highlight button a no brainer.
 
Kendall, I'm assuming you mean with the new Photoshop? And to the rest of you, thanks for your input, but darn you, now I'm having to reconsider sitting on the sidelines!
Just two improvements make the upgrade worthwhile, one is opening
Fuji RAW files and being able to endlessly tweak them , and one
cool addition - Adjustments Shadows/Highlight button a no brainer.
 
I put Panther on the titanium but not on my desktop. I like the finder, expose, the speed, the liquid (placebo effect?), the way mail and safari work. However, I cannot get Ominipage Pro to work with it. I have a LaCie external harddrive which I've read Panther does not like. Still, even the quirky Canon software under Jaguar runs better in Panther. I had many problems when I went from classic to Jaguar, but I'll never look back. (If I had found out sooner that one can run classic in the background, that would have saved me much grief.)
 
Michael,

After seeing the 10.2.8 debacle, I've decided to bypass first release
of Panther and I think it was a good call. Look at issues like FileVault,
FW800, Printer Driver, etc., etc.. Instead of rushing to meet the 10.24
deadline, they should have gone for another build or two before they
released it.

I agree that it(upgrade) is worth every bit of it but if I were you,
I would be sidelined for a little longer or at least til 10.3.1 comes out.
Apple quality control isn't what it used to be, IMHO.

-yr

-----------------------------------
Just two improvements make the upgrade worthwhile, one is opening
Fuji RAW files and being able to endlessly tweak them , and one
cool addition - Adjustments Shadows/Highlight button a no brainer.
 
My work G4/400 suffered with Thursby's DAVE. v4.1.1 is available this week.

At home my G4/450/DP was clobbered by the firewire driver for the EPSON 3200 scanner. My first Panther Forced Restart. The event gave the boot to my USB HP 970C printer.

A new scanner driver saved the day.

The printer recovered after a power shut down for one hour.

Otherwise 10.3 is really cool and OK. Bought 3 copies.

Go get yours and report back tonight.

EHamner
 
I installed Panther last week and am very happy with the OS improvements. However, there are a couple of things that need to be fixed by Apple before 10.3 is rock solid as well as some maintenance necessities that every user should consider.

First, my machine is an "old" Pismo, albeit with upgraded HDs and I GB of RAM. (Been a real workhorse. I still love it.) Prior to Panther, I was on 10.2.8, which for me was problem free. Depending on your equipment profile, YMMV.

BEFORE UPGRADING:
1. Repair permissions.

2. Rebuild your directories using DiskWarrior or Drive 10 (or even TechTool Pro if your machine will boot that CD.)

3. Consider optimizing your drives. I always do but there are a lot of Unix pros who take issue with optimization.

4. Make an inventory of all the little ancillary bits of shareware/haxies or whatever currently on your system and see if they have requisite updates for Panther. (Default Folder X, as an example, will crash Panther in it's old iteration.) Take a look at your login items and disable any that do not come with Panther certification.

5. Make note of any "weirdness" that seems to afflict your pre-Panther version of the OS. Is everything rock solid? If not, you may want to alter upgrade strategy. One way to test is to set up a new user (test user) and see if whatever troubles your system disappears when logged onto the new user. If so, there is a problem in your home directory that may cause more problems with Panther.
6. Keep repairing permissions as you update any software.
7. Back-up everything!!!!

8. If you use a FW drive as your back-up device, research the current issue with corruption of the directories and seek out the firmware updates issued by various manufacturers.

SELECTING UPGRADE METHOD

If your system is rock solid (no "weirdness") and you have attended to any necessary updates of software, choose the archive-and-install option. This will build a completely new system but keep all of your user preferences intact (provide that you check that option in the installer).

If you have nagging problems with your current OS/home directory that have not been solved with permissions and directory maintenance, I'd advise a clean install with plans to either reinstall your software or restore from back-up copies. (Note that the $19.95 upgrade disks from Apple will not let you install Panther on a fully clean disk. You will have to do a 10.2.x install first.)

INSTALLING

1. DISCONNECT any peripherals including all USB and FW devices.

2. If you are installing on laptop, consider inserting an old battery to prevent any install quirks from shortening your "good" battery's life.

3. Pay attention to the installer's options, which allow you to select what you want installed, including printer drivers and languages. Allows opt for the least amount of either that you need.
4. Be patient.

RUNNING PANTHER

1. DO NOT reboot with FW drives attached until Apple posts a tested fix for the directory issues even if you drive seems to be safe. You can mount these drives after start-up. Just unmount and disconnect before shutdown.

2. DO NOT enable File Vault. There is a problem with how the application recovers disk space, resulting in loss of user preferences and other nasty things. Apple will fix this but until they do, swear off File Vault.
3. After the first restart, repair permissions.
4. Again rebuild drive directories (Drive 10, DiskWarrior et al)

5. Use Cocktail or Xupport (my favorite) to run the cron scripts and re-prebind files. Xupport also enables selection of a non-startup volume for swap files. Very nifty.

Panther is great. Do the requisite housekeeping and you will love the improvements. Have fun!

--
Best,
Pat
http://www.pbase.com/minicucci
 
I must have missed something. I can't find anywhere where anyone asked for suggestions. Free advise is worth just that. Zero.
I installed Panther last week and am very happy with the OS
improvements. However, there are a couple of things that need to be
fixed by Apple before 10.3 is rock solid as well as some
maintenance necessities that every user should consider.

First, my machine is an "old" Pismo, albeit with upgraded HDs and I
GB of RAM. (Been a real workhorse. I still love it.) Prior to
Panther, I was on 10.2.8, which for me was problem free. Depending
on your equipment profile, YMMV.

BEFORE UPGRADING:
1. Repair permissions.
2. Rebuild your directories using DiskWarrior or Drive 10 (or even
TechTool Pro if your machine will boot that CD.)
3. Consider optimizing your drives. I always do but there are a lot
of Unix pros who take issue with optimization.
4. Make an inventory of all the little ancillary bits of
shareware/haxies or whatever currently on your system and see if
they have requisite updates for Panther. (Default Folder X, as an
example, will crash Panther in it's old iteration.) Take a look at
your login items and disable any that do not come with Panther
certification.
5. Make note of any "weirdness" that seems to afflict your
pre-Panther version of the OS. Is everything rock solid? If not,
you may want to alter upgrade strategy. One way to test is to set
up a new user (test user) and see if whatever troubles your system
disappears when logged onto the new user. If so, there is a problem
in your home directory that may cause more problems with Panther.
6. Keep repairing permissions as you update any software.
7. Back-up everything!!!!
8. If you use a FW drive as your back-up device, research the
current issue with corruption of the directories and seek out the
firmware updates issued by various manufacturers.

SELECTING UPGRADE METHOD

If your system is rock solid (no "weirdness") and you have attended
to any necessary updates of software, choose the
archive-and-install option. This will build a completely new system
but keep all of your user preferences intact (provide that you
check that option in the installer).

If you have nagging problems with your current OS/home directory
that have not been solved with permissions and directory
maintenance, I'd advise a clean install with plans to either
reinstall your software or restore from back-up copies. (Note that
the $19.95 upgrade disks from Apple will not let you install
Panther on a fully clean disk. You will have to do a 10.2.x install
first.)

INSTALLING

1. DISCONNECT any peripherals including all USB and FW devices.
2. If you are installing on laptop, consider inserting an old
battery to prevent any install quirks from shortening your "good"
battery's life.
3. Pay attention to the installer's options, which allow you to
select what you want installed, including printer drivers and
languages. Allows opt for the least amount of either that you need.
4. Be patient.

RUNNING PANTHER

1. DO NOT reboot with FW drives attached until Apple posts a tested
fix for the directory issues even if you drive seems to be safe.
You can mount these drives after start-up. Just unmount and
disconnect before shutdown.
2. DO NOT enable File Vault. There is a problem with how the
application recovers disk space, resulting in loss of user
preferences and other nasty things. Apple will fix this but until
they do, swear off File Vault.
3. After the first restart, repair permissions.
4. Again rebuild drive directories (Drive 10, DiskWarrior et al)
5. Use Cocktail or Xupport (my favorite) to run the cron scripts
and re-prebind files. Xupport also enables selection of a
non-startup volume for swap files. Very nifty.

Panther is great. Do the requisite housekeeping and you will love
the improvements. Have fun!

--
Best,
Pat
http://www.pbase.com/minicucci
--
Oly C-5050, Canon G3, PS 7, MacG4
 
I must have missed something. I can't find anywhere where anyone
asked for suggestions. Free advise is worth just that. Zero.
7, MacG4

The first post in this thread talked about problems - the guy was giving some advice for minimising problems as a courtesy. Avoid free advice from people who can't spell.

--
Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
 
Michael,

After seeing the 10.2.8 debacle, I've decided to bypass first release
of Panther and I think it was a good call. Look at issues like
FileVault,
FW800, Printer Driver, etc., etc.. Instead of rushing to meet the
10.24
deadline, they should have gone for another build or two before they
released it.

I agree that it(upgrade) is worth every bit of it but if I were you,
I would be sidelined for a little longer or at least til 10.3.1
comes out.
Apple quality control isn't what it used to be, IMHO.

-yr
========================
Agreed - I'm still trying to get iTunes 4 to work after installing 10.2.8 . I might go for Panther if it would solve the problems created by 10.2.8, but I'm more inclined to wait a while. I was an eager upgrader, installing every update faithfully, but I'm very disappointed in Apple for issueing 10.2.8 before it was ready. Makes me think it was put out there to prod users to buy Panther.....
--
Nashua, NH, USA
http://www.pbase.com/baklink

 

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