Max Fun
Senior Member
Would you still think that it doesn't feel like a pro?
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
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The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
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What's wrong with Silver Plastic??!!
- Thread starter Max Fun
- Start date
Daniella68313
Forum Pro
No so far the only guns that I have seen had a metal barrill.. I can't hardly imagine that a bullet can go through a plastic barril but I am not very informed regarding guns.
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com
c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
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Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com
c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
It's a bit more complicated than that. The black vs. silver is only one component to the overall "image" you project to other people around you, specifically non-photographers (or civilians 
.
Let's look at an extreme example: One guy (or girl, no sexism here) is holding a P&S, the guy next to him is holding an all-black rig with battery grip, honking lens, a big flash with a pocket softbox mounted to a t-press stroboframe, and a quantum battery for his flash hanging off his belt.
Yes, these are two extremes -- one comprising numerous factors that give the aura of professionalism and the other giving none. black vs. silver. softbox vs. none. powerful ext flash vs. popup penlight. etc. etc.
Which guy, right or wrong in the eyes of the civilians (99% of the population), will be viewed with more "respect"?
While WE know that camera color matters not, it does contribute in it's subtle way, to the overall perception being formed by others. Combined with all the other components, the black vs. silver component is probably unnoticed. But if you are lacking the components in the "extreme" example above, then the black color may contribute larger to others perception.
I recently shot a friend's wedding as simply a bystander, ex. not the hired gun. But I brought my standard rig with me. I was very careful not to interfere with the hired gun, but when I approached a setup, they not only remained in posture for me, but all the relatives with their P&S's backed off while I got my shots -- withone word one from me.
Others wanted to know if I would work for them. I wasn't even advertising except by virtue of the my appearance and the perception formed by those watching me.
This may sound like horsesh!t, but companies spend ALOT of money on psychographic studies to determine just this sort of thing. Human perception and opinion formation is a strange thing.
JMHO...
http://www.pbase.com/digirob
.Let's look at an extreme example: One guy (or girl, no sexism here) is holding a P&S, the guy next to him is holding an all-black rig with battery grip, honking lens, a big flash with a pocket softbox mounted to a t-press stroboframe, and a quantum battery for his flash hanging off his belt.
Yes, these are two extremes -- one comprising numerous factors that give the aura of professionalism and the other giving none. black vs. silver. softbox vs. none. powerful ext flash vs. popup penlight. etc. etc.
Which guy, right or wrong in the eyes of the civilians (99% of the population), will be viewed with more "respect"?
While WE know that camera color matters not, it does contribute in it's subtle way, to the overall perception being formed by others. Combined with all the other components, the black vs. silver component is probably unnoticed. But if you are lacking the components in the "extreme" example above, then the black color may contribute larger to others perception.
I recently shot a friend's wedding as simply a bystander, ex. not the hired gun. But I brought my standard rig with me. I was very careful not to interfere with the hired gun, but when I approached a setup, they not only remained in posture for me, but all the relatives with their P&S's backed off while I got my shots -- withone word one from me.
Others wanted to know if I would work for them. I wasn't even advertising except by virtue of the my appearance and the perception formed by those watching me.
This may sound like horsesh!t, but companies spend ALOT of money on psychographic studies to determine just this sort of thing. Human perception and opinion formation is a strange thing.
JMHO...
- Robert
----I keep reading about complains regarding the build quality of the
300D. And I just want to ask... wat's up with that?
Does a camera have to be made of metal to be good? Even if it is
made of metal, will you throw it around anyhow? Someone dropped the
DRebel down some stairs and it survived. Is that strong enough
build? Let's say the metal body can survive a greater drop, but
your lens and whatever mechanics inside the camera won't!
And then there's the colour thing. What's wrong with silver? Does
being black make a camera better? I quite like the silver colour
actually; at least it doesn't make the camera look like some
antique from the days of yore. You know, if the 300D came in white
to match the L lenses, then maybe people will like it better.
I think people who are used to the old metallic SLRs may not be
used to the 300D, but that's no reason to say that it's one of its
weak points. In fact, being made of plastic makes it lighter and
becomes one of its greatest advantages!
Sorry of the rant, but it's getting late and my experiments didn't
work
--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
http://www.pbase.com/digirob
Max Fun
Senior Member
Does a 'pro feeling' camera mean that you have a better grip? Would it be more about easily accessible buttons more than the material? Or is it the weight? Do you need the heft to feel that it's a pro-grade camera?
Conversely, what does feeling like a toy mean? That it feels cheap like a disposable camera? That you don't think you can get good quality pictures from it? That you think it's going to be very difficult to handle it?
All these concerns sound so superficial and more psychological than anything. No? If you prefer heavy, metal and black cameras, so be it. Don't turn around and say that it's one of the weaknesses of the 300D.
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
Conversely, what does feeling like a toy mean? That it feels cheap like a disposable camera? That you don't think you can get good quality pictures from it? That you think it's going to be very difficult to handle it?
All these concerns sound so superficial and more psychological than anything. No? If you prefer heavy, metal and black cameras, so be it. Don't turn around and say that it's one of the weaknesses of the 300D.
--I keep reading about complains regarding the build quality of the
300D. And I just want to ask... wat's up with that?
Does a camera have to be made of metal to be good? Even if it is
made of metal, will you throw it around anyhow? Someone dropped the
DRebel down some stairs and it survived. Is that strong enough
build? Let's say the metal body can survive a greater drop, but
your lens and whatever mechanics inside the camera won't!
And then there's the colour thing. What's wrong with silver? Does
being black make a camera better? I quite like the silver colour
actually; at least it doesn't make the camera look like some
antique from the days of yore. You know, if the 300D came in white
to match the L lenses, then maybe people will like it better.
I think people who are used to the old metallic SLRs may not be
used to the 300D, but that's no reason to say that it's one of its
weak points. In fact, being made of plastic makes it lighter and
becomes one of its greatest advantages!
Sorry of the rant, but it's getting late and my experiments didn't
work
--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
Feeling like a pro means you feel like you better take some good shots to sell so you can recover your equipment expenses.
Al
Al
Spiky
Leading Member
Well, to my amateur hands, the 1 series feels more like a club than a camera. Like I said, it's all relative. I like the textured feel better, it's easier to grip. And the insignificant weight of the film Rebels makes them something I never want unless absolutely necessary. It's a combination of everything.
But if you mean the sensor of the 1Ds in the exact DR body, yes, it still would not feel like the 1Ds sensor in the 1Ds body. The DR body is simply not a pro body, not even compared to my 20 year old camera. The 1Ds is actually somewhat crippled, it doesn't need that body, could've gotten by with something more like the 10D or EOS 3 body. The fact that the body can physically do over 10 shots per second, but the computer can only handle 3 is interesting.
In case you missed it, I did say the color is not going to be my deciding factor. The fact that the DR and 10D have the same sensor outweighs the color I dislike.
But if you mean the sensor of the 1Ds in the exact DR body, yes, it still would not feel like the 1Ds sensor in the 1Ds body. The DR body is simply not a pro body, not even compared to my 20 year old camera. The 1Ds is actually somewhat crippled, it doesn't need that body, could've gotten by with something more like the 10D or EOS 3 body. The fact that the body can physically do over 10 shots per second, but the computer can only handle 3 is interesting.
In case you missed it, I did say the color is not going to be my deciding factor. The fact that the DR and 10D have the same sensor outweighs the color I dislike.
Spiky
Leading Member
That's about it. Up to a point, some added weight actually helps your handholding ability, too.
Feels like it might break into 1000 pieces if it bumps something?
You asked. Then whined that nobody responded. Then b* ed at the response. I think studies of psychology are interesting, this thread is an example. A weakness for you is not the same as a weakness for me. For me, I just don't like silver plastic or the feel of smooth plastic on a camera, whether the camera is sporting a 110 film compartment or a 55mp $20000 digital back.
Karl Gohl
Leading Member
That's why I was careful to say "didn't feel as cold" instead of "wasn't as cold". I thought of saying "didn't suck the heat out of me as much", but decided that was too idiomatic. Probably only on interest to us engineers/scientists, but thanks for making it perfectly clear.
Jared Hunter
Senior Member
But since the 300D is an SLR, the sensor does not need to be 'active' for previewing the shot so internal heat generation should be minimal on standby. In hot weather, the outside temp. should be much higher than the inside. If the body were metal, it would be easier for heat to conduct to the inside as it tries to reach equilibrium between inside and outside.
If it is hot outside, a black, metal body will conduct heat faster to the internals. Try walking around with a black camera around your neck during the summer in Venice or the south of France - that sucker heats up real quick under the scorching sun...
Karl Gohl
Leading Member
I think Canon specifically chose the color to reduce canabalization of 10D sales. To me, it looks like they specifically choose a "plastic trying to look like metal" color when the could have just as easily made it look a lot more like level.
I'm glad they did. Otherwise they might have had to take other things away that I care about, like AEB or DOF preview. I wish they could have made it even uglier so we could have had MLU & or FEC.
I'm glad they did. Otherwise they might have had to take other things away that I care about, like AEB or DOF preview. I wish they could have made it even uglier so we could have had MLU & or FEC.
Max Fun
Senior Member
I have the same thought, except that if you have a whole bag of lenses and a huge 550ex flash, even if your 300D is bright red, people will think you're a pro. Especially since the 300D is not exactly small and doesn't look like a P&S either.
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
--Let's look at an extreme example: One guy (or girl, no sexism
here) is holding a P&S, the guy next to him is holding an all-black
rig with battery grip, honking lens, a big flash with a pocket
softbox mounted to a t-press stroboframe, and a quantum battery for
his flash hanging off his belt.
Yes, these are two extremes -- one comprising numerous factors that
give the aura of professionalism and the other giving none. black
vs. silver. softbox vs. none. powerful ext flash vs. popup
penlight. etc. etc.
Which guy, right or wrong in the eyes of the civilians (99% of the
population), will be viewed with more "respect"?
While WE know that camera color matters not, it does contribute in
it's subtle way, to the overall perception being formed by others.
Combined with all the other components, the black vs. silver
component is probably unnoticed. But if you are lacking the
components in the "extreme" example above, then the black color may
contribute larger to others perception.
I recently shot a friend's wedding as simply a bystander, ex. not
the hired gun. But I brought my standard rig with me. I was very
careful not to interfere with the hired gun, but when I approached
a setup, they not only remained in posture for me, but all the
relatives with their P&S's backed off while I got my shots --
withone word one from me.
Others wanted to know if I would work for them. I wasn't even
advertising except by virtue of the my appearance and the
perception formed by those watching me.
This may sound like horsesh!t, but companies spend ALOT of money on
psychographic studies to determine just this sort of thing. Human
perception and opinion formation is a strange thing.
JMHO...
- Robert
----I keep reading about complains regarding the build quality of the
300D. And I just want to ask... wat's up with that?
Does a camera have to be made of metal to be good? Even if it is
made of metal, will you throw it around anyhow? Someone dropped the
DRebel down some stairs and it survived. Is that strong enough
build? Let's say the metal body can survive a greater drop, but
your lens and whatever mechanics inside the camera won't!
And then there's the colour thing. What's wrong with silver? Does
being black make a camera better? I quite like the silver colour
actually; at least it doesn't make the camera look like some
antique from the days of yore. You know, if the 300D came in white
to match the L lenses, then maybe people will like it better.
I think people who are used to the old metallic SLRs may not be
used to the 300D, but that's no reason to say that it's one of its
weak points. In fact, being made of plastic makes it lighter and
becomes one of its greatest advantages!
Sorry of the rant, but it's getting late and my experiments didn't
work
--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
http://www.pbase.com/digirob
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
Spiky
Leading Member
Hey, people think you're a pro if you do anything more than:
1) See something photo-worthy
2) Bring camera to eye or near eye (for digicam)
3) Snap shot
4) Lower camera
Spend half a second thinking about a shot and people think you're a pro. Even with a small camera.
1) See something photo-worthy
2) Bring camera to eye or near eye (for digicam)
3) Snap shot
4) Lower camera
Spend half a second thinking about a shot and people think you're a pro. Even with a small camera.
No disagrement here
Use of camera generates heat - not much but some.
I live in a desert and take cameras with me for 12hr hikes in full sun. The black film SLR gets very hot.
I'd guess after a several hours internals of camera becomes at equilibrium with outdoor temp whether it is a metal or plastic body. Metal quicker though.
So the differences is does black vs. sliver create more heat abosorbtion relative to plastic vs. metal heat dispersion from internal heat generation from battery/processor - after camera has been give time to reach ambient temp.
Ideally the camera should be white metal. oh, like canon L lenses.
Al
Use of camera generates heat - not much but some.
I live in a desert and take cameras with me for 12hr hikes in full sun. The black film SLR gets very hot.
I'd guess after a several hours internals of camera becomes at equilibrium with outdoor temp whether it is a metal or plastic body. Metal quicker though.
So the differences is does black vs. sliver create more heat abosorbtion relative to plastic vs. metal heat dispersion from internal heat generation from battery/processor - after camera has been give time to reach ambient temp.
Ideally the camera should be white metal. oh, like canon L lenses.
Al
Daniella68313
Forum Pro
funny in my case it's the opposite.. I have less problem to handhold a lighter camera than a heavier one. Especially after some times my hands get tired with a heavy camera, but not so with a light camera.
I find it a bit harder for me to handhel the 300D than my smaller less heavy C700uz. I handled the 10D...I could not get that much steady with it so with the 10D I would probably need a tripod.
fiew people dropped their 300d without it breaking into 1000 pieces...it stayed in one piece and even worked after.
then just get the 10D.. it is very simple. I can understand that people buy a camera and be happy with it...I cannot understand that people buy a camera and are not happy with the feel of it..then why buy it?
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com
c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
Spiky
Leading Member
They chose the color years ago. Not sure why. Originally all their cameras were black and silver, but that was all metal, uncolored for the silver area. Many EOS cameras have had some variation of silver or silver + black, dating back to the 80s. Mostly the Rebel series (imagine that!), but also some others have had silver.
Max Fun
Senior Member
I want to know if all the complains about the build are justified. I want to find out how much of it is purely psychological rather than reality. If it is really a concern, then heck, I should return my DRebel when I still have the chance! Your respond is like what many others have written, except that most people put the light weight as a plus point more than a negative point.
I can see how the light weight might affect handholding ability, but then it will be easier to hand hold the lighter camera after a whole day of shooting. Personally, I tried the heavier cameras, and the DRebel feels snappier because I feel that I can whip it out faster; even the operations (not so much the AF, but in general) feels more responsive, but then I don't know if the lighter feel affects my assessment of the speed or if there's actually some firmware improvement over the 10D. Also, you can also get the optional grip to make it a real solid hold. But this point is valid and is very much up to the individual to decide for themselves.
As for the 'Feels like it might break into 1000 pieces if it bumps something' comment, I just wonder if it would make any difference if you know that such high impact plastic is very durable? It would scratch, but not enough to affect the integrity of the camera. So if you know that this is the case, would it stop feeling like a toy? Of course many toys are also made of metal and can last forever.
I still want to know about how the colour would affect photographic technique. So far some of the responses here say that colour can help with the heat problem and seems more like an advantage than a disadvantage.
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
I can see how the light weight might affect handholding ability, but then it will be easier to hand hold the lighter camera after a whole day of shooting. Personally, I tried the heavier cameras, and the DRebel feels snappier because I feel that I can whip it out faster; even the operations (not so much the AF, but in general) feels more responsive, but then I don't know if the lighter feel affects my assessment of the speed or if there's actually some firmware improvement over the 10D. Also, you can also get the optional grip to make it a real solid hold. But this point is valid and is very much up to the individual to decide for themselves.
As for the 'Feels like it might break into 1000 pieces if it bumps something' comment, I just wonder if it would make any difference if you know that such high impact plastic is very durable? It would scratch, but not enough to affect the integrity of the camera. So if you know that this is the case, would it stop feeling like a toy? Of course many toys are also made of metal and can last forever.
I still want to know about how the colour would affect photographic technique. So far some of the responses here say that colour can help with the heat problem and seems more like an advantage than a disadvantage.
--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
Spiky
Leading Member
That's exactly my point. Try a camera 1/2 the weight of your Olympus, I imagine you'll have MORE camera shake than with the uzi. You reached your best weight with the uzi, it seems. The camera I'm used to is just about the weight of the DR + kit lens, that would actually be a very smooth transition for me. I want to jump to the 10D, weight would be a definite issue if I can do that. Of course, so would the DR with a large lens, or my current setup, too. It's just something to work out.
Spiky
Leading Member
I don't mean the weight is a negative, it depends on the person and their capabilities. The guys with a 1D and Bigma find it almost too light. People used to digicams probably find it too heavy.
Unless you bash it around, the build is a totally a psychological issue, I'd say. Sure, people talk about the difference in balance with this or that lens, but it doesn't stop them from using the camera they can afford or want and the lens, too.
I probably like the weight of the DR better than the 10D. My only real dislike is the features difference, feel of the surface and the color. Only the features are truly important.
I was just trying to answer your request for a definition. FWIW, the film Rebels DO feel just like that--a toy. The DR is much more robust, it has a much better internal metal structure. And, the lens mount is metal. That WOULD be a deal breaker if that was plastic like some cheap Rebels have been. Again, I mostly just dislike the smooth plastic feel vs the grippy texture of my A-1 or the 10D. Oh, and the "feel" of something does not necessarily match the reality. My leg "feels" less strong than steel, but my femur is stronger than a comparably sized piece of metal.
Ever seen the commercial of a Tonka toy dump truck (the good metal ones of yesteryear, not today's combo stuff) and a real dump truck driven off a cliff? Great stuff!
Yeah, I read all those. Probably the only thing that really means is you can touch it to your face a little faster than a black camera. (without burning/freezing your face, that is) I suppose that means you could get a shot faster. I've never noticed a problem with my current black camera though. I keep it in a bag rather than let it sit (or hang around my neck) in the sun/cold. Just keep it out of direct sunlight and any camera like this should be just fine, I would think.
Otherwise, color couldn't possibly affect technique.
charles schuler
Senior Member
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