Poll: Will F828 be a hit or a dud?

Gene Miller77510 · Nov 4, 2003

There is nothing wrong with the 300D for those who don't need the added features of the 10D. These cameras are not in direct competition even though the basic price range may draw some into the dSLR world. That's great. I think there will be a lot of happy people there. For others the F717 and the V1 have given them great joy and many beautiful photographs. For others who do not want the hassles and added expense of additional lens, the F828 will be worth the wait. For myself, I'm excited about the T1. I'm hoping it will just be close to the quality of the V1. So with all these cameras we have now and the new ones coming out, it is giving all of us great choices.

If I was 35 to 40 years younger I would go after a dSLR, just like I did in the film world. Of course if money wasn't a problem, I'd get the E1 and invest in the 4/3 system. As far as dSLR's go, the E1 I think is the most exciting innovated piece of professional camera equipment to come around in years. That is not to take away from the entry level price Canon did with their Rebel.

The low entry level price range of the Rebel has allowed many people to enter into that level of photography. But for the others who want the very best in prosumer photographic equipment, the F828 appears that it will be a great choice. We just have to wait and see it Sony's hype and specs meet the challenge. I think it will.

When I talk about entering into a different level of photography, I am not talking about which is better. Each different entry will allow you to excel in different areas of photography. It is your choice to which one you feel will meet your photographic expectations. There is a market for all these beautiful digital cameras and there will be happy buyers with which ever camera they buy. They're all great.

BrianOS 2.1 said:
Neat Image is great software for low detail shots, but try Neat
Image with a detailed sand castle. Oh, and how long does it take
for each image to be processed? I would hate to have done that will
all 1200 images on my last trip. And noise is dead info. It's non
detail. So use Neat Image to give the illusion of a clean image,
but it's lost detail. period.

Both cameras are great. Pick the one that works for you. Let other
people waste their time laughing. I'll be the one taking the
picture of the laugher. : )

Brian

Bobby Tan said:

johnd1 said:

John

Sparky_ca said:

What do you think its about 1 month until the 828 is released will
it be a hit or a dud? Or maybe no better then a 7x7
My Vote is for a hit

--
Sparky_ca
I have a photographic memory, but I always seem to have the lens
cap on.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
THE Graphic Design Directory: http://adigitaldreamer.com
My Portfolio: http://www.skulpt.com

--
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

s k u l p t · Nov 4, 2003

Very nice shot. : ) I love the lighting on that one.

I was refering more to grains of sand, or anything where detail is speckled, and not linear. Neat image does wonders with keeping edges and smooting out skies and that kind of thing, but when it comes to lets say a closeup of sand where there are individual grains of sand, Neat Image can't really keep up. I'd be curious to to see a 100% crop of something like this to prove me wrong. : )

Brian

Matthew Cromer said:
--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

--
THE Graphic Design Directory: http://adigitaldreamer.com
My Portfolio: http://www.skulpt.com

Bobby Tan · Nov 4, 2003

Max Fun said:
Even if the F828 is the best prosumer camera out in the market, for
every F828 sold, there will be ten U30/50 sold, so it will never
measure up in terms of volume.

Tell this to somebody who cares ..... as STF'ers don't give a hoot about trivial information this this.

Gene Miller77510 · Nov 4, 2003

Check these plug-ins from Kodak:

http://www.asf.com/

They look promising. Clean noise without destroying detail.

Bobby Tan said:
Matthew Cromer said:

--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

Click to expand...

--
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Gene Miller77510 · Nov 4, 2003

Brian, check out what I just posted from Kodak.

http://www.asf.com/

These new plug-ins from Kodak may offer the type of noise reduction everyone have been wanting. I wonder if anyone have tried it?

BrianOS 2.1 said:
I was refering more to grains of sand, or anything where detail is
speckled, and not linear. Neat image does wonders with keeping
edges and smooting out skies and that kind of thing, but when it
comes to lets say a closeup of sand where there are individual
grains of sand, Neat Image can't really keep up. I'd be curious to
to see a 100% crop of something like this to prove me wrong. : )

Brian

Matthew Cromer said:

--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

Click to expand...

--
THE Graphic Design Directory: http://adigitaldreamer.com
My Portfolio: http://www.skulpt.com

--
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Gene Miller77510 · Nov 4, 2003

Don't worry Shay, Richard attacked my character with misleading and out of context statements and then would not answer me because I do nothing but insult. It was me who was insulted by Richard.

Shay Stephens said:
Must..control...phaser..of..destruction....

Whew, that was a close one.

Richard300 said:

Ulysses said:

We're getting all semanticky.

Click to expand...

Semanticky, do you mean like:

If a tree falls in the forest, does water roll off a duck's back

Oh darn here comes Shay to zap this post with that weapon...

Shay Stephens said:

--

Click to expand...

Small sample of pics at:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lalondr
Richard300

Click to expand...

--
Shay
http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

'Cameras are not artists, photographers are.'

--
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Richard300 · Nov 4, 2003

Not that it's worth a response but I believe that Shay and Uly were both smart enough to see the "humour". They can correct me if I am wrong.

Richard

Gene Miller said:
Don't worry Shay, Richard attacked my character with misleading and
out of context statements and then would not answer me because I do
nothing but insult. It was me who was insulted by Richard.

--
Small sample of pics at:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lalondr
Richard300

Gene Miller77510 · Nov 4, 2003

BrianOS 2.1 said:
It's the photographer really that gives the photograph life. Flow,
color, contrast, emotion, mood..... But it's the combo of maxing
out your cameras capabilities AND using flow, color, contrast,
emotion, mood that can make someone a consistantly great
photographer. Those who do this with great equipment do very well
as photographers.

It is timing and luck. With a professional photographer, it is knowledge, patiences, and choosing the right equipment for the job. There have been get pictures shot with disposable cameras.

s k u l p t said:
Of course there has to be image quality. If not, than who cares
about a CZ lens? It's impossible for people to deny not caring
about the 717 lens. Who cares about corner softness? Who cares
about CA? Who cares about distortion... If you care about having
the best photo possible, you care about this stuff. It's like
having a great painter using a house paint brush rather than a fine
tip brush. They will still produce probably something great because
of skill, but they will be held back artistically by the
limitations of the brush.

Most of the public who view pictures do not care. It is just the artists and the critics that comments on such matters. There have been great art created with a house paint brush. So it is the artist that counts, not the equipment. An artist will create with whatever is at hand. A photographer will take a great picture no matter what camera is at their disposal.

s k u l p t said:
If there is enough noise though and CA, it starts taking away from
your possibilities. If the lens is soft or exibits CA and flare, it
starts to narrow your possibilities. If there is too much noise
(noise is non detail), you're narrowing your possibilities.

Most people who take snapshots and are not involve with these forums do not care about what we consider to be noise issues. I think for most of us, it is blown way out of proportion, for others it is important.

s k u l p t said:
If the noise and CA of the 828 stays the same as on the pre samples
thus far, it will be narrowing a lot of possibilities.

Do you really think Sony is going to release a camera that is not better than the F717 or the V1? I don't think so.

s k u l p t said:
Brian

--
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Gene Miller77510 · Nov 4, 2003

Richard300 said:
Richard

Gene Miller said:

Don't worry Shay, Richard attacked my character with misleading and
out of context statements and then would not answer me because I do
nothing but insult. It was me who was insulted by Richard.

Click to expand...

--
Small sample of pics at:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lalondr
Richard300

--
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Gene Miller77510 · Nov 4, 2003

Mark Ransom said:
For those that buy based on specs, there will be none better.

Specs don't mean anything if it is not backed up by performance.

Mark Ransom said:
For those that buy based on recommendations, the head start and
hype of the 300D is going to sway a lot of people.

Only those who are interested in entering the dSLR world at a real good entry level price. A great start for everyone interested in going in that direction.

Mark Ransom said:
The 7x7 was arguably the best camera in its price range. Still is.
The 828 is going up against a real competitor. The camera market
is growing fast enough for both to be winners, but it won't be the
grand slam Sony was hoping for.

I don't think either of us know what Sony is hoping for. I would think the only thing we can really say is that they hope they will make a profit with it. I do not know what you mean by a grand slam. I didn't read in the F828 specs that it was able to play baseball. I must of missed something. ;-)

Mark Ransom said:
Sparky_ca said:

What do you think its about 1 month until the 828 is released will
it be a hit or a dud? Or maybe no better then a 7x7
My Vote is for a hit

--
Sparky_ca
I have a photographic memory, but I always seem to have the lens
cap on.

Click to expand...

--
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Jacques321 · Nov 4, 2003

Will be a BIG HIT !! for 3 main reasons:

1. Sony reputation - they make good, reliable products 99% of the time.

2. At 8 Megapixels the bar is set high. Many people will desire to have a camera with that kind of performance.

3. Competition will keep the price reasonable.

Other possible reasons:

Sony digicams take great pics in lowlight conditions.
Sony digicam batteries lasat longer than most other digicam batteries.
The F828 will take Comapct flash media..

mike · Nov 4, 2003

If the pics are anything like the 717, the 828 will be a big hit. Also consider that the 828 will probably be one the "top of the line" models at places like Circuit City and Best Buy-- if they can get the thing to market about 3 weeks before Xmas, I think all existing stock will be sold out very quickly.

Bobby Tan · Nov 4, 2003

Member said:
The 2 groups that shouldn't buy this camera are the point and shoot
people who are not that interested in photography and the long lime
pros who are used to high-end film and/or digital equipment.

The sweet spot for this camera should be the extreme photographic
enthusiast who doesn't want to be a pro and just has a lot of fun.
These people should be very happy.

AVB

That's a fair assessment. No one camera is suited to everyone, or can claim to be a camera for everyone. Every camera has it's niche and it's target market. This is not an inexpensive camera but it is a very advanced non-professional camera, and it is breaking a lot of new ground and raising the bar for prosumer cameras. I think there is a very high demand for such cameras and we will probably see more of this type of camera coming into the market next year. I am almost certain the next version of the F828 will have image stabilization.

I am not expecting the noise problem of the F828 to be any better than the F717 (but I do hope that it will be) and I won't be at all surprised if it's actually worse (like the G5 problem, so I gather) but the F828 has many more features than the F717, and superior build quality. Some may argue that the price difference does not justify the new features and higher spec, but this is like comparing the 10D to the 300D. Some will have a need for the extra features and will happily pay for it, and some won't.

One thing is for sure ... it WILL be a phenomenal success!

Gamo · Nov 5, 2003

Sparky_ca said:
What do you think its about 1 month until the 828 is released will
it be a hit or a dud? Or maybe no better then a 7x7
My Vote is for a hit

--
Sparky_ca
I have a photographic memory, but I always seem to have the lens
cap on.

Ogilvy · Nov 5, 2003

Sparky_ca said:
What do you think its about 1 month until the 828 is released will
it be a hit or a dud? Or maybe no better then a 7x7
My Vote is for a hit

--
Sparky_ca
I have a photographic memory, but I always seem to have the lens
cap on.

Ogilvy · Nov 5, 2003

Somehow i dont think a fixed lens small sensor slow af digicam isn't everyone's heart's desire

either. face it, hearts desire would be a 1ds or a 1d or a d2h/d2x but many people have to compromise.

Matthew Cromer said:
Somehow I suspect a plastic-bodied de-featured 10D Rebel is to some
extent "settling" and not "heart's desire".

--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

Ogilvy · Nov 5, 2003

Bobby Tan said:
... as it's such a stunted camera ...

really? have you compared sensor sizes lately? The 300d sensor is shaq compared to that pipsqueak sensor in the 828.

totally short on

Bobby Tan said:
specifications and features.

Yeah, it ain't a camera unless it's got movie mode hehehe

It will STILL give you very nice

Bobby Tan said:
images, that's true,

truer words

but it doesn't have a lot of tricks in it's

Bobby Tan said:
bag ... unlike the F828 ... which can also make noise disappear
(well, almost) via Neat Image.

Actually neat Image makes noise disappear not the 828, try processing 100 pictures and see how long it takes you.

Bobby Tan said:
johnd1 said:

John

Sparky_ca said:

What do you think its about 1 month until the 828 is released will
it be a hit or a dud? Or maybe no better then a 7x7
My Vote is for a hit

--
Sparky_ca
I have a photographic memory, but I always seem to have the lens
cap on.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

PDM · Nov 5, 2003

Phil said that in anticipation of camera actualy being available (in quantity) by the end of this year, LOL!

Paul

sandy b said:
Sparky_ca said:

What do you think its about 1 month until the 828 is released will
it be a hit or a dud? Or maybe no better then a 7x7
My Vote is for a hit

--
Sparky_ca
I have a photographic memory, but I always seem to have the lens
cap on.

Click to expand...

firesoul · Nov 5, 2003

no text

Bobby Tan · Nov 5, 2003

Ogilvy said:
Bobby Tan said:

... as it's such a stunted camera ...

Click to expand...

really? have you compared sensor sizes lately? The 300d sensor is
shaq compared to that pipsqueak sensor in the 828.

Sensor size isn't everything. How else do you explain that the FULL FRAME sensor of the 14-megapixel Kodak DCS Pro 14n is NOISY ... and so is the Contax N-Digital which sold for $7,000 just a year ago? I would rather have a small sensor and a compact lens, and spend $60 on Neat Image or some other noise reduction software. LOTS of dSLR users (pros) use Neat Image. What does that tell you? It's not such a big deal if you are shooting at ISO 100, and most people don't really need to shoot at a higher ISO.

Ogilvy said:
Ogilvy said:

totally short on specifications and features.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it ain't a camera unless it's got movie mode hehehe

Not just movie mode, my friend. Frankly, the movie mode is least important to me. Do I need to compare specs again and count the number features that are missing on the 300D, not to mention the plastic body? You don't even get spot metering.

Ogilvy said:
Ogilvy said:

but it doesn't have a lot of tricks in it's bag ... unlike the F828 ...
which can also make noise disappear (well, almost) via Neat Image.

Click to expand...

Actually neat Image makes noise disappear not the 828, try
processing 100 pictures and see how long it takes you.

Why would anyone need to process 100 pictures at a time? Noise is only an issue if the light level is very low, or if you shoot at ISO 400 and above. Obviously you won't post-process ALL the pictures that you take - only the "keepers" and that's usually only a handful.

Poll: Will F828 be a hit or a dud?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

mike

Guest

Forum Enthusiast

Well-known member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Member

Forum Enthusiast

Keyboard shortcuts