I zoom On affecting photos & Long shutter noise reduction settings

kkardster · Nov 27, 2021

aluma said:
I probably misunderstand something.

The difference between the pictures on my monitor is not visible, but ExifTool gives "Digital Zoom Ratio: 0" in both cases.

PS. Perhaps the izoom mode was turned on, but it never came to fruition. In my FZ45, it kicks in when the optical reaches its limit, denoted as "C" .

If by "the pictures" you are referring to the two photos I posted for comparison, then Digital Zoom Ratio should be zero since both were taken from the middle of the optical zoom range where no digital zoom should be employed. So I agree that it never came to fruition when it comes to zoom level.

But the original question pertained to what - if any - affect iZoom might have when operating in the optical zoom range. As I noted earlier, some Lumix models couple iResolution with iZoom so there likely is some digital processing being performed whenever iZoom is enabled. Other (recent?) models decouple them and offer separate on/off controls for each.

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter

aluma · Nov 27, 2021

kkardster said:
kkardster wrote:..

But the original question pertained to what - if any - affect iZoom might have when operating in the optical zoom range. As I noted earlier, some Lumix models couple iResolution with iZoom so there likely is some digital processing being performed whenever iZoom is enabled. Other (recent?) models decouple them and offer separate on/off controls for each.

Thank you, now I understand.

Information about iResolution is also displayed by ExifTool, for your photos "Intelligent Resolution: Off".

kkardster · Nov 27, 2021

aluma said:
aluma said:

kkardster wrote:..

But the original question pertained to what - if any - affect iZoom might have when operating in the optical zoom range. As I noted earlier, some Lumix models couple iResolution with iZoom so there likely is some digital processing being performed whenever iZoom is enabled. Other (recent?) models decouple them and offer separate on/off controls for each.

Click to expand...

Thank you, now I understand.

Information about iResolution is also displayed by ExifTool, for your photos "Intelligent Resolution: Off".

I use ExifTool and ExifToolGUI and also incorporate a special decode file for my Panasonics so that it reports settings as per the Panasonic menus rather than the tool defaults. For example, instead of Contrast=Low, my file might report Contrast=-2 - the camera's actual setting.

My examples came from the ZS100 with its decoupled iResolution, so I had independently set iZoom ON while leaving iResolution OFF. My FZ200 is not available to me today, but I believe that enabling iZoom on it will also enable iResolution - something I can check on later next week.

kkardster · Nov 27, 2021

Bridgephotog said:
It’s pretty simple. Use the iZoom. If you like the results and enjoy having 800mm of zoom in the tiny FZ1000 package then use it. If you can see it’s rubbish for your purposes then turn it off.

Pretty simply, this only challenges the photographer to see for themselves if they might be willing to accept whatever impact the OP is asking about. But it does nothing to actually answer the question.

Bridgephotog said:
I love it and enjoy having the ridiculously long zoom available. Sometimes it doesn’t work but that’s life.

Having the original question answered and known might help prevent any surprise "sometimes", so I still find value in perusing it in that light.

Bridgephotog said:
And it’s usually for something moving hopelessly fast. Then I scale back to the white section up to 400 mm and use that.
framing and composition matter more to me than pixel peeping.

Agreed. There may be too much emphasis on artifacts introduced when using iZoom that may only be truly evident when pixel peeping.

aluma · Nov 27, 2021

kkardster said:
kkardster wrote:...

My examples came from the ZS100 with its decoupled iResolution, so I had independently set iZoom ON while leaving iResolution OFF. My FZ200 is not available to me today, but I believe that enabling iZoom on it will also enable iResolution

You raised an interesting question.
Right now, for lack of another object, the base of a desk lamp, at a distance of about 5 m. Izoom is on, Intelligent Resolution is set to "standard" in the camera menu. ExifTool says "Intelligent Resolution: Off".

kkardster · Nov 27, 2021

aluma said:
aluma said:

kkardster wrote:...

My examples came from the ZS100 with its decoupled iResolution, so I had independently set iZoom ON while leaving iResolution OFF. My FZ200 is not available to me today, but I believe that enabling iZoom on it will also enable iResolution

Click to expand...

You raised an interesting question.
Right now, for lack of another object, the base of a desk lamp, at a distance of about 5 m. Izoom is on, Intelligent Resolution is set to "standard" in the camera menu. ExifTool says "Intelligent Resolution: Off".

Yeah, that's why I use a customization file where I can define each tag's settings as shown in the actual camera's menus. The fact that ExifTool identified the tag as iResolution but reports it was Off when it wasn't makes me believe that iResolution was likely added to ExifTool when it was only implemented as a simple Off or On setting rather than the five settings available on my ZS100.

I don't have iResolution included in my customization file, simply because I never use it! But you could look at your iResolution tag value numerically to see what number the camera stored for your setting of "standard". I'm guessing it might be 2: an iResolution value that ExifTool simply doesn't recognize by default.

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter

jlina · Nov 27, 2021

My original question was actually even bigger than that - I was wondering if the whole machine is a computer since it is digitized at what point is anything mechanical anymore and why would we choose to use some computerized parts versus others that we don't trust? But then we allow programs on actual computers to do that so I would assume that the answer is it's personal preference and people would rather edit on a computer.

Since I can turn i resolution off independently I'm assuming it's not doing anything when I have izoom on. Thanks for the input Bruce!

--
jlina

aluma · Nov 28, 2021

kkardster said:
I don't have iResolution included in my customization file, simply because I never use it! But you could look at your iResolution tag value numerically to see what number the camera stored for your setting of "standard". I'm guessing it might be 2: an iResolution value that ExifTool simply doesn't recognize by default.

I must ask for forgiveness.

Yesterday in a hurry I made a mistake, in fact there are two values in the camera for iResolution, on and off. When enabled, ExifTool reports "Intelligent Resolution: High".

Just for example, two shots, without iResolution and with it on (without Izoom).

My only excuse is that I don’t use all i-options and didn’t pay much attention to their settings.

PS. To be fair. There is one more iResolution mode - iZOOM.

kkardster · Nov 28, 2021

aluma said:
kkardster said:

I don't have iResolution included in my customization file, simply because I never use it! But you could look at your iResolution tag value numerically to see what number the camera stored for your setting of "standard". I'm guessing it might be 2: an iResolution value that ExifTool simply doesn't recognize by default.

Click to expand...

I must ask for forgiveness.

Yesterday in a hurry I made a mistake, in fact there are two values in the camera for iResolution, on and off. When enabled, ExifTool reports "Intelligent Resolution: High".

My FZ200 and your FZ45 only offer the following i.Resolution settings:

i.Zoom
On
Off

My ZS100 offers five i.Resolution settings: (with i.Zoom having separate On/Off settings.)

High
Standard
Low
Extended
Off

Since your ExifTool has reported both Standard and High, it looks like it may have the extended set of i.Resolution settings covered. Perhaps I'm due for an upgrade?

aluma said:
Just for example, two shots, without iResolution and with it on (without Izoom).

I don't see much of a difference in this example.

aluma said:
My only excuse is that I don’t use all i-options and didn’t pay much attention to their settings.

PS. To be fair. There is one more iResolution mode - iZOOM.

No biggie. We're trying to learn more about these settings - and we are!

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter

aluma · Nov 28, 2021

kkardster said:
My FZ200 and your FZ45 only offer the following i.Resolution settings:

i.Zoom

On

Off

My ZS100 offers five i.Resolution settings: (with i.Zoom having separate On/Off settings.)

High

Standard

Low

Extended

Off

Since your ExifTool has reported both Standard and High, it looks like it may have the extended set of i.Resolution settings covered. Perhaps I'm due for an upgrade?

I have not changed the firmware, for mine all changes are not to allow the battery from another manufacturer to be inserted.

Loading…

av.jpn.support.panasonic.com

kkardster said:
kkardster said:

Just for example, two shots, without iResolution and with it on (without Izoom).

Click to expand...

I don't see much of a difference in this example.

To be honest, I can only make out the difference in pixels on this branch (they are all no more than 5 ... 7 mm in diameter in fact). And just squinting .

kkardster · Nov 28, 2021

aluma said:
kkardster said:

Since your ExifTool has reported both Standard and High, it looks like it may have the extended set of i.Resolution settings covered. Perhaps I'm due for an upgrade?

Click to expand...

I have not changed the firmware, for mine all changes are not to allow the battery from another manufacturer to be inserted.

I was suggesting that perhaps my ExifTool might need an upgrade, not any camera. Panasonic doesn't update their firmware very often so I'm likely up-to-date anyway.

aluma · Nov 28, 2021

kkardster said:
I was suggesting that perhaps my ExifTool might need an upgrade, not any camera. Panasonic doesn't update their firmware very often so I'm likely up-to-date anyway.

I use ExifTool under linus, now I tried to go to his site, but the site is gone!

All that's left is this

Loading…

github.com

Sue Anne Rush · Nov 28, 2021

Hello...

Interesting.... Thank you for the link.

aluma said:
kkardster said:

I was suggesting that perhaps my ExifTool might need an upgrade, not any camera. Panasonic doesn't update their firmware very often so I'm likely up-to-date anyway.

Click to expand...

I use ExifTool under linus, now I tried to go to his site, but the site is gone!

All that's left is this

https://github.com/exiftool/exiftool

aluma · Nov 28, 2021

jlina said:
My original question was actually even bigger than that -...

I absolutely agree with you!

The question is much broader, you can write a post and even a treatise on the differences between sensors, optics, algorithms for cameras, smartphones and computers. But all this will break on the ancient "you cannot check the freshness of the fish without trying it."

jlina · Nov 28, 2021

Lol, thanks for making me laugh! For myself, I'm happy to see what my miniaturized computer will/can do and then change it if I don't like it. I saw some pixel difference in your shots too when I squinted or super enlarged, but I thought the use of I zoom actually did sharpen the outlines.

Here is some interesting older discussions around this:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4519588

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

--
jlina

aluma · Nov 29, 2021

Here's what I wanted to draw your attention to.

My FZ45 is a fairly old camera. It is quite possible that newer ones with newer hardware and algorithms will give better results. You can verify this in one way - take test shots by setting the minimum ISO, eliminate jitter during shooting, etc.

Jon_T · Nov 29, 2021

jlina said:
Ha! Believe it or not I did look on the manual Jon! It is very vague. ...

Yes if one does not know what long shutter noise is; however easy enough to find out with some simply online searches; e.g., HERE.

Camera manuals 'only' explains what the camera's settings are for; they do not teach/ explain photography basics; just as as a car manual does not teach how to drive or how to do basic services to a car.

There are written and PDF books available for various cameras that do provide the information you're expecting a camera manual to provide.

As I've previously provided there are some good online photo sites to help beginners, e.g., HERE, and HERE.

Cheers,
Jon

jlina · Nov 29, 2021

Your help is much appreciated Jon! Thanks!

Usually when I post here about easily researched topics it's because I want to know how Panasonic does the function. I linked two old threads I'd found about it

--
jlina

Jon_T · Nov 30, 2021

jlina said:
Your help is much appreciated Jon! Thanks!

Usually when I post here about easily researched topics it's because I want to know how Panasonic does the function. I linked two old threads I'd found about it

? :-|

Please Note:

Neither of those two threads had anything about "Long Shutter Noise Reduction", LSNR.

My reply based on the various digital cameras I used over the past 20 years as to the "basic" implementation of LSNR, same process as explained in kkardster's reply to you.

Both LSNR and i.Zoom are a "ON" or "OFF" option; unlike the "Sharpness" in "Photo Styles", "i.Dynamic", "i.Resolution", etc. each with multiple settings to choose from.

The "i.Zoom" basically the same as other camera's "Smart Zoom", "Safe Zoom", etc. as noted in the article "Optical vs. Digital Zoom" I've previously posted HERE.

They 'all' take a smaller crop resolution area of the sensor's full area for the longer EFL from the smaller FOV, then enlarges the smaller crop area's resolution back to the full sensor area's resolution.

The FZ1000/ II "EX S" (5 MP) picture size setting provides a optical (i.e,, no "i.Zoom") crop EFL of 800mm. Be Interesting to try enlarging a 5MP image to 20MP to see how it compares to the 800 EFL via 20MP and i.Zoom — of course the results would be dependent upon the app/ process used for the enlarging.

Cheers,
Jon

jlina · Nov 30, 2021

Hi, Jon, yes it was a two part question. Just mentioning I had "googled" the answers in addition to posting here, specifically in regards to Panasonic. Again what I find odd is we can trust long shutter noise reduction to be computerized in camera but we cannot trust izoom or iresolution...per general forum advice.

That's what related the two questions for me.

I always search terms with the word Panasonic included because as far as I can tell there is no way to know what general photography principal Panasonic has applied their specific algorithm to; unless you come to this forum.

I don't think I've ever shot in 5 megapixel I will give it a try.

Thanks!

--
jlina

I zoom On affecting photos & Long shutter noise reduction settings

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