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I zoom On affecting photos & Long shutter noise reduction settings

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jlina

jlina

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I have not seen a definitive answer to this question (might have missed it.)

I know posters here do not endorse I zoom or any I resolution, etc. But if it is "on" and yet one never actually goes into the area marked that indicates you will be using I zoom is it still somehow manipulating anything at all about your photos?

Or, people just like it to be off in case they were to go into that marked zone?

Also, in reviewing my settings I just realized long shutter press noise reduction is an option - not native to the camera. I have had it on "on." Does it affect ISO or it's purely an edit within the camera?

Thanks everyone! Happy Holidays!

--
jlina
 
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jlina said:
Also, in reviewing my settings I just realized long shutter press noise reduction is an option - not native to the camera. I have had it on "on." Does it affect ISO or it's purely an edit within the camera?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean by LSNR not being native to the camera. All Panasonic cameras natively employ LSNR for any exposure of 1 second or longer by default. However, LSNR can be turned off on 1" and larger-sensored models to allow for gap-free shooting of consecutive long exposure images.

LSNR is meant to decrease noise by taking a dark (shutter closed) image immediately following any long shutter shot and "subtracting" the dark frame (with the sensor's noise pattern) from the original image to yield a cleaner final image. LSNR does not affect ISO except that you might combine multiple lower ISO images to increase the exposure by adding the light from multiple exposures rather than increasing ISO/noise.
jlina said:
Thanks everyone! Happy Holidays!
Click to expand...
You too!

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
 
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Hi, Bruce! Thank you for explaining that. I hadn't really researched it at all, and only experienced it a few times. Sounds like it's beneficial then. It does take several seconds to complete, I always thought it had something to do with the camera writing to the SD card. I did not even realize it was optional on my camera.

I'm preparing for some nighttime Christmas decoration shots :) !

--
jlina
 
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jlina said:
Hi, Bruce! Thank you for explaining that. I hadn't really researched it at all, and only experienced it a few times. Sounds like it's beneficial then. It does take several seconds to complete, I always thought it had something to do with the camera writing to the SD card. I did not even realize it was optional on my camera.
Click to expand...
It's one of the reasons I point someone at the FZ1000 rather than the FZ300 if they might have an interest in astrophotography. One might turn it off when shooting multiple images that will be combined later to form star trails, decrease noise, or increase exposure, etc. As such, one should include their own dark frame image(s) taken using the same shutter duration to be used to remove the noise outside of the camera. I'd suggest taking one at the beginning and another at the end of a shooting sequence and including them both.
jlina said:
I'm preparing for some nighttime Christmas decoration shots :) !
Click to expand...
I'm looking forward to seeing them! They shouldn't require real long shutter durations or image stacking so best to keep LSNR on!

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
 
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Hello...
jlina said:
I have not seen a definitive answer to this question (might have missed it.)

I know posters here do not endorse I zoom or any I resolution, etc. But if it is "on" and yet one never actually goes into the area marked that indicates you will be using I zoom is it still somehow manipulating anything at all about your photos?

Or, people just like it to be off in case they were to go into that marked zone?

Also, in reviewing my settings I just realized long shutter press noise reduction is an option - not native to the camera. I have had it on "on." Does it affect ISO or it's purely an edit within the camera?

Thanks everyone! Happy Holidays!
Click to expand...
Happy Thanksgiving jlina - I ate a very nice meal - that my son and daughter made... on my Instagram - Happy Thanksgiving to you and Jimmy. :-)
 
jlina said:
I have not seen a definitive answer to this question

(might have missed it.)

I know posters here do not endorse I zoom or any I resolution, etc. But if it is "on" and yet one never actually goes into the area marked that indicates you will be using I zoom is it still somehow manipulating anything at all about your photos?

Or, people just like it to be off in case they were to go into that marked zone?
Click to expand...
The camera manual suggests that iZoom processing is only employed when extending the zoom range and its use of the bar graph and slight pause at the transition when zooming serve to reinforce that notion. But - as with Hand-Held Night Scene Mode - it's also possible that whatever it does is either off or on, depending on the setting.

Looking at iZoom analytically, when zoomed beyond optical zoom the camera would be interpolating between pixels while zooming wirhin the optical zoom range one might expect any algorithm to use averaging. So it would be a bit of a surprise to find that anything is being applied while in the optical zoom range.

So we should try to solve this riddle by offering evidence. I often see iZoom artifacts in nice blue skies and had hoped for the same today but it's overcast so my conditions aren't ideal for such a test. But here are a couple of test shots from the ZS100 at approximately half optical zoom - one without iZoom and the other with.

Half-zoom, iZoom OFF
Half-zoom, iZoom OFF

Half-zoom, iZoom ON
Half-zoom, iZoom ON

I don't see any real difference here, but would welcome additional comparison shots and analysis.

Perhaps another comparison scenario might be:
  1. Full optical zoom, iZoom OFF
  2. Full optical zoom, iZoom ON
  3. Slightly beyond full optical zoom, iZoom ON
If 1 & 2 look the same but there is an obvious increase in artifacts for #3, we might have the answer.

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
 
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While reviewing some posts here, it appears that iZoom for some models also forces iResolution ON, which will affect IQ when shooting using optical zoom, not just for the extended zoom range.

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter
 
Last edited:
jlina said:
I have not seen a definitive answer to this question (might have missed it.)

I know posters here do not endorse I zoom or any I resolution, etc. But if it is "on" and yet one never actually goes into the area marked that indicates you will be using I zoom is it still somehow manipulating anything at all about your photos?
Click to expand...
Just do some test shots of same subject without iZoom, and with iZoom to see if the overall iZoom IQ acceptable for 'your' image uses.

For "myself" and with my FZ1000 MK1, I like the overall IQ with the 10MP + iZoom for quick grab/ none important shots. As per my post HERE I noted that:
"With low ISO's and with object (i.e., bird filling the image area), images downsized to 5MP (2751x1834) @ 300 DPI IMO are more than good enough for display viewing, and printing 5x7 inch prints."

Just keep in mind that iZoom will enlarge to 'good' and the 'bad' (image noise, JPG artifacts, etc.) equally. Hence why for best results use lowest ISO and have the subject fill the image area.

P. 186
P. 186

Cheers,
Jon
 
Hello...
Jon_T said:
jlina said:
I have not seen a definitive answer to this question (might have missed it.)

I know posters here do not endorse I zoom or any I resolution, etc. But if it is "on" and yet one never actually goes into the area marked that indicates you will be using I zoom is it still somehow manipulating anything at all about your photos?
Click to expand...
Just do some test shots of same subject without iZoom, and with iZoom to see if the overall iZoom IQ acceptable for 'your' image uses.

For "myself" and with my FZ1000 MK1, I like the overall IQ with the 10MP + iZoom for quick grab/ none important shots. As per my post HERE I noted that:
"With low ISO's and with object (i.e., bird filling the image area), images downsized to 5MP (2751x1834) @ 300 DPI IMO are more than good enough for display viewing, and printing 5x7 inch prints."

Just keep in mind that iZoom will enlarge to 'good' and the 'bad' (image noise, JPG artifacts, etc.) equally. Hence why for best results use lowest ISO and have the subject fill the image area.

Just a FYI on Long Shutter NR:

P. 186
P. 186

Cheers,
Jon
Click to expand...
Thank you for this information. :-)

--
Sue Anne Rush
 
Wow thank you for that Bruce. That looks almost like my backyard except for my pine trees are larger!

I agree with you though the ultimate test but I don't think that your eye can really tell a difference perhaps if you enlarge it on a program on a desktop.

I had I resolution and other stuff set to low out of low medium and high, but I turned it all off to see if I can see a difference in the photos.

It is interesting to me that most people promote Graham's work on here but then they don't agree with his use or his opinion of i zoom. I also don't get the distinction between the camera being a computerized object overall and it's fine to use such computerized object but not to let it use its computer knowledge. It has to be extrapolating pixels from something anyway and if I understand what Jon T has told me it's from contrast basically working in a binary manner.

So it photographed solid objects in an outline shape and fills in the color form?

Which it seems to do well if it has an actual object but it doesn't do it very well when it's imagining what is inside the object is the most stuff come up with to explain it in layman's terms.

I actually have no artwork that is a printed photo that is framed on my walls I've never done that. So this may be a distinction only for those that would frame photos for display?

It's just an interesting thought experiment. I know in high school we would put like grains of wheat on top of a film plate and then develop them to make patterns on the film. So that's where I get the idea that it's photographing a solid object.

I also agreed at the camera is sophisticated enough that if you change a setting it's probably changing all kinds of things inside of it; not radically but at least it has permission to it at that point.

Anyway to me with the Advent of digital it's a digitized/ computerized camera and one ought to be able to type in full advantage of that when used.

Just like with me controlling my tablets so we want to be in control of it which is why I learned so much on the settings and stuff last year.

Thanks so much!

PS. Long shutter noise reduction has got to be a computerized algorithm in there too... And yes I certainly do intend to use it.
 
Hello...
jlina said:
Wow thank you for that Bruce. That looks almost like my backyard except for my pine trees are larger!

I agree with you though the ultimate test but I don't think that your eye can really tell a difference perhaps if you enlarge it on a program on a desktop.

I had I resolution and other stuff set to low out of low medium and high, but I turned it all off to see if I can see a difference in the photos.

It is interesting to me that most people promote Graham's work on here but then they don't agree with his use or his opinion of i zoom. I also don't get the distinction between the camera being a computerized object overall and it's fine to use such computerized object but not to let it use its computer knowledge. It has to be extrapolating pixels from something anyway and if I understand what Jon T has told me it's from contrast basically working in a binary manner.

So it photographed solid objects in an outline shape and fills in the color form?

Which it seems to do well if it has an actual object but it doesn't do it very well when it's imagining what is inside the object is the most stuff come up with to explain it in layman's terms.

I actually have no artwork that is a printed photo that is framed on my walls I've never done that. So this may be a distinction only for those that would frame photos for display?

It's just an interesting thought experiment. I know in high school we would put like grains of wheat on top of a film plate and then develop them to make patterns on the film. So that's where I get the idea that it's photographing a solid object.

I also agreed at the camera is sophisticated enough that if you change a setting it's probably changing all kinds of things inside of it; not radically but at least it has permission to it at that point.

Anyway to me with the Advent of digital it's a digitized/ computerized camera and one ought to be able to type in full advantage of that when used.

Just like with me controlling my tablets so we want to be in control of it which is why I learned so much on the settings and stuff last year.

Thanks so much!

PS. Long shutter noise reduction has got to be a computerized algorithm in there too... And yes I certainly do intend to use it.
Click to expand...
Thank you for all your tips... :-)
 
PS. I do understand that it's assigning color value to pixels red blue green yellow etc. I guess what I am figuring out is where the boundaries are ... that seems to be proprietary software based on the camera brand usage similar to the focus technology.
 
Hello...
jlina said:
Hi Sue Anne! I saw where you got out of cooking Thanksgiving dinner lol how wonderful that your family was all there I hope you had a lovely time up there in Pennsylvania farm country!
Click to expand...
Yes my son made a vegan dinner ... two more dinners to go to. :-)
 
I got over the iZoom issue by using the EOZ. That way I select the size of the sensor and control the zoom that way. On the FZ1000 I set up a function button to control the sensor so I can then select 20mp, 10mp or 5mp, each giving me a different zoom range, although its not a true zoom the results are not too bad. On the FZ200, I have to go into the Quick Menu to do the same thing. I haven't tested it on the Panasonics, but with my RX10, it has a similar set up in that you can select the sensor size to get an apparent longer focal length and when you do that it keeps the full senesor size until you go beyond 600mm. That means its not applying the smaller sensor setting until after 600mm has been reached. I suspect the Panasonic cameras might do the same.
 
It’s pretty simple. Use the iZoom. If you like the results and enjoy having 800mm of zoom in the tiny FZ1000 package then use it. If you can see it’s rubbish for your purposes then turn it off.
I love it and enjoy having the ridiculously long zoom available. Sometimes it doesn’t work but that’s life. And it’s usually for something moving hopelessly fast. Then I scale back to the white section up to 400 mm and use that.
framing and composition matter more to me than pixel peeping.
 
Hi! You're right that is a very straightforward solution. And it's what I was thinking when I added it in the menu. If you get a chance would you post a photo where you used it that you think is a good result?

The only time I used it so far was for a bird that was so far away it wasn't going to make a difference; the picture was never going to be good, but it was fun to try :)

Thanks!
 
I probably misunderstand something.

The difference between the pictures on my monitor is not visible, but ExifTool gives "Digital Zoom Ratio: 0" in both cases.

PS. Perhaps the izoom mode was turned on, but it never came to fruition. In my FZ45, it kicks in when the optical reaches its limit, denoted as "C" .

cac15d04800a4c77a1c04c4718c0a0f9.jpg.png
 
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