What is the definition of -- FILM LOOK

By now we have a generation who's never seen actual film photos, just the "film look" produced by software. So in a sense "film" keeps improving, and changing, even though no one is really using it.
Don't look now, but a LOT of people are using it, even here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1072
Saying "a lot" is relative. Compared to digital very few people are using film. Look at how few people have actually posted in that forum compared to all the digital forums. I personally don't know anybody who uses film.

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Tom
 
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That might be your experience but it's not mine. If a negative is encased in a protective sleeve, then there is no way dust could get onto it but maybe they were exposed to dust as you removed them from the sleeve?
The sleeves were not sealed but were open at one end just as they came from the developer. Maybe over decades dust worked its way in that way. Some were worse than others.
I usually used 36 exposure 35mm films. Of course, the 2 1/4 was either 8 or 12 per roll. I used individual sized envelopes for the 4 x 5 negatives.

I placed negatives from each roll in a Legal size envelope and labeled the content and date for the exposures. The enveloped were placed in a box (on edge - NOT flat) so this kept the media normal and without possibility of getting any dust or creases.

In later years, I have scanned all Family and Friends oriented negatives and slides. The proper care for the media really "paid off" with basically NO problems regarding dust or other contamination. This was a rather long and devoted project since this included thousands of images. I did not scan the NON family images such as were exposed relating to commercial (business) projects for several years.
Yes, with good housekeeping, there really is no need for the negatives to become contaminated with dust.
 
By now we have a generation who's never seen actual film photos, just the "film look" produced by software. So in a sense "film" keeps improving, and changing, even though no one is really using it.
Don't look now, but a LOT of people are using it, even here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1072
Saying "a lot" is relative. Compared to digital very few people are using film. Look at how few people have actually posted in that forum compared to all the digital forums. I personally don't know anybody who uses film.
If you were to draw a Venn diagram of the set of people who post on DPR and the set of people doing film photography there would be a tiny overlap, so DPR probably isn’t the best place for stats on the size of film photography.

The r/analog subreddit on Reddit has 1.5 million members, and film sales are somewhere between 1% and 2% of what they were at “peak film” (2000 - 2003). But when you consider most people who used film in that time (I.e. almost everybody) are now using phones for photography that’s not too bad
 
I keep reading posts referring to Film Look. Will someone please give a proper definition.

I exposed images using many different types of Films for over 40 years and never heard "Film Look" mentioned until after starting to use Digital -- and continue to have no idea what anyone is talking about when they mention "Film Look".

My opinion is that I am NOT alone.
Change your Q to read "...a definition of..." and you might get from me: anything that you think looks like a film rendition, - but only in passing, because, like you, I reckon it's semantically pretty vapid.

atom14.
 
By now we have a generation who's never seen actual film photos, just the "film look" produced by software. So in a sense "film" keeps improving, and changing, even though no one is really using it.
Don't look now, but a LOT of people are using it, even here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1072
Saying "a lot" is relative. Compared to digital very few people are using film. Look at how few people have actually posted in that forum compared to all the digital forums. I personally don't know anybody who uses film.
Yes, you're right. It's a niche, but slowly picking up steam.

If they can keep the prices of film and processing in check, I think it'll slowly keep picking up. (but not approach digital's popularity)
 
That might be your experience but it's not mine. If a negative is encased in a protective sleeve, then there is no way dust could get onto it but maybe they were exposed to dust as you removed them from the sleeve?
The sleeves were not sealed but were open at one end just as they came from the developer. Maybe over decades dust worked its way in that way. Some were worse than others.
I usually used 36 exposure 35mm films. Of course, the 2 1/4 was either 8 or 12 per roll. I used individual sized envelopes for the 4 x 5 negatives.

I placed negatives from each roll in a Legal size envelope and labeled the content and date for the exposures. The enveloped were placed in a box (on edge - NOT flat) so this kept the media normal and without possibility of getting any dust or creases.
I wish I had the foresight to do that. Sealing them in an envelope and properly storing them would have saved me a lot of trouble but back then I had no idea that scanning film would ever be a thing.
 
By now we have a generation who's never seen actual film photos, just the "film look" produced by software. So in a sense "film" keeps improving, and changing, even though no one is really using it.
Don't look now, but a LOT of people are using it, even here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1072
Saying "a lot" is relative. Compared to digital very few people are using film. Look at how few people have actually posted in that forum compared to all the digital forums. I personally don't know anybody who uses film.
If you were to draw a Venn diagram of the set of people who post on DPR and the set of people doing film photography there would be a tiny overlap, so DPR probably isn’t the best place for stats on the size of film photography.

The r/analog subreddit on Reddit has 1.5 million members, and film sales are somewhere between 1% and 2% of what they were at “peak film” (2000 - 2003). But when you consider most people who used film in that time (I.e. almost everybody) are now using phones for photography that’s not too bad
I tend to look at it as a percentage of film users vs Digital. As such 1.5 million is a tiny number compared to the billions taking digital photos.
 
By now we have a generation who's never seen actual film photos, just the "film look" produced by software. So in a sense "film" keeps improving, and changing, even though no one is really using it.
Don't look now, but a LOT of people are using it, even here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1072
Saying "a lot" is relative. Compared to digital very few people are using film. Look at how few people have actually posted in that forum compared to all the digital forums. I personally don't know anybody who uses film.
If you were to draw a Venn diagram of the set of people who post on DPR and the set of people doing film photography there would be a tiny overlap, so DPR probably isn’t the best place for stats on the size of film photography.

The r/analog subreddit on Reddit has 1.5 million members, and film sales are somewhere between 1% and 2% of what they were at “peak film” (2000 - 2003). But when you consider most people who used film in that time (I.e. almost everybody) are now using phones for photography that’s not too bad
I tend to look at it as a percentage of film users vs Digital. As such 1.5 million is a tiny number compared to the billions taking digital photos.
“serious” cameras (ILCs and the like) are already pretty niche (e.g. Fujifilm sell more film cameras per year than total ILC sales) so it comes down to a rather silly “my niche is bigger than your niche”. Phones dwarf everything and pretty soon (if not already) embedded cameras will dwarf phones, so film and ILCs are just on the edge of the sea, hunting for scraps.
 
Yes it has been a while, long enough to NOT recall the name of the described Film. However, it is a shame that this evidently is the main thing that is remembered about B/W Film usage.
Remembered? Lots of us are still out here shooting B&W film. I've actually had to make a couple of trips to Freestyle these past couple of weeks as they've been out of my favorite emulsions.
I will help. It is Kodak TRI-X, ASA 400 that is grainy and for people Photos gives an ASH colored skin tone. This was never my choice of B/W Film to use. Some would comment "but what did you use where there was not enough light to use a better film". Then, that is when I used Flash.
My go-to for low light is HP5+ pushed two stops. I love the gritty look, but next batch I'll be experimenting a different developer (XT3) -- maybe go less gritty.

Aaron

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My Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/aarongold/
 
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Saying "a lot" is relative. Compared to digital very few people are using film. Look at how few people have actually posted in that forum compared to all the digital forums. I personally don't know anybody who uses film.
Hi! Aaron here. Nice to meet you. Now, between me and Smaug, you know two!

Film really is growing again -- camera prices are on the rise and a few "extinct" film emulsions are being reformulated or coming back.

Regarding costs, which came up earlier, I did the math on my B&W photography and (IIRC) I figured somewhere between 14 and 19 cents per 35mm photo for B&W (depending on the film stock), and that's for film, developing and scanning. (It'll get cheaper if the scanner lives more than five years.) I don't think I've spent more than $40 for a film camera (with lens), and many I own cost me $0.

The Sony A7C I'm lusting after would cost $2100 with a kit zoom. If I shoot 36 exposures per week (more than my average), the cost of that Sony would keep me in film for 5 to 7 years with enough change left over for a camera and a couple of nice lenses. Seeing as how many digitoraphers buy more expensive rigs and replace them every 2-4, it seems the cheapest way to do photography is to shoot film.
 
The Sony A7C I'm lusting after would cost $2100 with a kit zoom. If I shoot 36 exposures per week (more than my average), the cost of that Sony would keep me in film for 5 to 7 years with enough change left over for a camera and a couple of nice lenses. Seeing as how many digitoraphers buy more expensive rigs and replace them every 2-4, it seems the cheapest way to do photography is to shoot film.
Everything considered and since you are obviously talking about 35mm when you mention 36 exposures you could buy a used Canon 5D II for less than $500. That camera is superior in every way to any 35mm film camera ever made. There is no reason to replace cameras every 2-4 years.
 
That might be your experience but it's not mine. If a negative is encased in a protective sleeve, then there is no way dust could get onto it but maybe they were exposed to dust as you removed them from the sleeve?
The sleeves were not sealed but were open at one end just as they came from the developer. Maybe over decades dust worked its way in that way. Some were worse than others.
I usually used 36 exposure 35mm films. Of course, the 2 1/4 was either 8 or 12 per roll. I used individual sized envelopes for the 4 x 5 negatives.

I placed negatives from each roll in a Legal size envelope and labeled the content and date for the exposures. The enveloped were placed in a box (on edge - NOT flat) so this kept the media normal and without possibility of getting any dust or creases.
I wish I had the foresight to do that. Sealing them in an envelope and properly storing them would have saved me a lot of trouble but back then I had no idea that scanning film would ever be a thing.
Yes but neither did I but I did assume I'd want to print my negatives again and that required protecting them.
 
By now we have a generation who's never seen actual film photos, just the "film look" produced by software. So in a sense "film" keeps improving, and changing, even though no one is really using it.
Don't look now, but a LOT of people are using it, even here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1072
Saying "a lot" is relative. Compared to digital very few people are using film. Look at how few people have actually posted in that forum compared to all the digital forums. I personally don't know anybody who uses film.
If you were to draw a Venn diagram of the set of people who post on DPR and the set of people doing film photography there would be a tiny overlap, so DPR probably isn’t the best place for stats on the size of film photography.

The r/analog subreddit on Reddit has 1.5 million members, and film sales are somewhere between 1% and 2% of what they were at “peak film” (2000 - 2003). But when you consider most people who used film in that time (I.e. almost everybody) are now using phones for photography that’s not too bad
I tend to look at it as a percentage of film users vs Digital. As such 1.5 million is a tiny number compared to the billions taking digital photos.
Yes but every single one of those film users is deliberately and consciously making photographic images, whilst the vast bulk of smartphone users are just casual snappers with little thought behind their pics.
 
I tend to look at it as a percentage of film users vs Digital. As such 1.5 million is a tiny number compared to the billions taking digital photos.
Yes but every single one of those film users is deliberately and consciously making photographic images, whilst the vast bulk of smartphone users are just casual snappers with little thought behind their pics.
I don't think that's relevant to the issue. Besides the number of serious photographers using film is still very small compared to those using digital. I don't know what it's like where you live but where I live nobody sells film so you have to buy it online. Why is that? Because the local camera stores wouldn't sell enough to make it economically viable to keep it in stock. Is film making a "comeback"? Yes, but it's just a blip in the total sales.
 
I tend to look at it as a percentage of film users vs Digital. As such 1.5 million is a tiny number compared to the billions taking digital photos.
Yes but every single one of those film users is deliberately and consciously making photographic images, whilst the vast bulk of smartphone users are just casual snappers with little thought behind their pics.
I don't think that's relevant to the issue. Besides the number of serious photographers using film is still very small compared to those using digital. I don't know what it's like where you live but where I live nobody sells film so you have to buy it online. Why is that? Because the local camera stores wouldn't sell enough to make it economically viable to keep it in stock. Is film making a "comeback"? Yes, but it's just a blip in the total sales.
The camera shops around where I live (UK) sell a variety of film, even the local supermarket has started selling it again.

Worldwide film sales have doubled in the last five years (to 1% - 2% of peak film )
 
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Here is a scan of a Kodachrome 64 image from 1989.

I don't think any digital camera could recreate this without post-processing. The colors, the contrast, the vignetting...

6441abc8afc9470da863ed35c59cb55b.jpg
A beautiful scene: However, you are referring to a FILM TYPE Look. All different types for film that I used for many years each had a different Film TYPE look and NOT a general overall Film look.

Regarding your comment concerning creating this scene with a Digital Camera requires Post Processing in order to get a comparable results. In my opinion, that also is true for most images exposed with Digital Cameras -- meaning-- most images can be improved by appropriate post processing.

I am NOT referring to post processing to turn images into a "Disney Land" type of JUNK
The irony, if someone showed that picture today, I would would say it was overcolored and over-processed. :-D
Yes, it does have some attributes of having been processed using HDR, however; I have always enjoyed beautiful scenes of what "Mother Nature" has created.
Kodachrome was 'better' than Mother Nature. :)

--
Personal non-commercial websites with no ads or tracking:
Local photography: http://ratonphotos.com/
Travel and photography: http://placesandpics.com/
Special-interest photos: http://ghosttowns.placesandpics.com/
 
Worldwide film sales have doubled in the last five years (to 1% - 2% of peak film )
1%-2% proves my point. Thank you.
I’d mentioned those figures before ( https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603225 ) and there have been responses ( https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603871 , https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603785 ) so they don’t really prove anything. At this point film, ILCs etc etc are just fighting for scraps - go into a camera shop selling new digital cameras, the ones I’ve seen are on their uppers because there are few people wanting to buy new ILCs.
 
Worldwide film sales have doubled in the last five years (to 1% - 2% of peak film )
1%-2% proves my point. Thank you.
I’d mentioned those figures before ( https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603225 ) and there have been responses ( https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603871 , https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603785 ) so they don’t really prove anything. At this point film, ILCs etc etc are just fighting for scraps - go into a camera shop selling new digital cameras, the ones I’ve seen are on their uppers because there are few people wanting to buy new ILCs.
And far, far, far fewer want to buy new film cameras so that proves nothing. Fact, there are far, far, far more people shooting digital with a dedicated camera than film. Why anyone would want to argue against this FACT is beyond me. This minor uptick in film usage is a temporary thing before the novelty wears off and the inconvenience of film sinks in. Digital camera usage is here to stay even if it isn't at the huge numbers seen before.
 
Worldwide film sales have doubled in the last five years (to 1% - 2% of peak film )
1%-2% proves my point. Thank you.
I’d mentioned those figures before ( https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603225 ) and there have been responses ( https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603871 , https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65603785 ) so they don’t really prove anything. At this point film, ILCs etc etc are just fighting for scraps - go into a camera shop selling new digital cameras, the ones I’ve seen are on their uppers because there are few people wanting to buy new ILCs.
And far, far, far fewer want to buy new film cameras so that proves nothing.
“In 2019 Fuji sold more Instax cameras than the entire digital camera segment” ( https://fstoppers.com/gear/if-fujis-instax-cash-cow-should-it-produce-digital-cameras-559719 )
Fact, there are far, far, far more people shooting digital with a dedicated camera than film. Why anyone would want to argue against this FACT is beyond me.
I think that’s a straw man argument - I don’t think anyone is saying that, what is being said is that there does exist a film market rather than “even though no one is really using it.”
This minor uptick in film usage is a temporary thing before the novelty wears off and the inconvenience of film sinks in.
I’m not sure that doubling your output and being unable to keep up with demand ( Kodak ) is a minor uptick, but you’re entitled to your opinion
Digital camera usage is here to stay even if it isn't at the huge numbers seen before.
I agree, and the numbers will be bigger than before, but the growth will be in phones, cars, CCTV systems etc
 

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