Sony 200-600mm Settings for Birds

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For non-panning shots do you prefer setting 1 or 3 of the Steady Shot options...and why?
For BIF I recommend to just switch it of. Yes, that means enabling and disabling it whenever a bird sits down. Thing is the IBIS does not see the bird and will fight your efforts to move the view precisely with the bird. Even panning mode doesn't seem to adapt quick enough to birds flight paths. Also any mode other than 3 shows you a stabilized view, which makes it much harder for you to actually stablilize the view around the brid...
I tried this for a month and did not find any improvement in my keeper rate. I'm a linebacker build, shooting hand held, so tracking with my 600/f4 wasn't any harder or easier no matter the mode that I select. I usually just leave it on 1. Maybe I'm just insensitive. It seemed to me that initial acquisition is easier with OSS on.
YMMV. We're all built different and have different levels of experience, particularly with the big lenses.
The issue is not whether you can track it but whether you get sharp results. The bird needs to stay in roughly the same place on the sensor and OS should not stop the relative angular movement. This gets more relevant, the faster the bird and the closer you get.
 
Ibis doesn’t work when you have the lens on
That is incorrect. The software switch is disabled as you have to en-/disable it using the hardware switch. But the IBIS will still handle 3 of 5 axis, OSS the other two (according to Sony).
Right, sorry I mean OSS axis - you don't get better yaw and pitch stabilisation as a result of combined IBIS + OSS. IBIS yaw and pitch stabilisation gets turned off if the lens has OSS because lens stabilisation is typically better than IBIS (in those axis) and for whatever reasons Sony don't try and combined the two.

I believe Canon R5 with RF lenses may combined the 5 axis IBIS with the lens IS.
 
dcstep wrote: ...
For birds in flight, all auto-modes are out. Auto ISO, for example, will underexpose a bird against the sky and over expose a white bird against trees or other typical BG. The great thing about mirrorless is WYSIWYG. For brown birds, set your ISO based on tree bark in the sun or out of the sun, for white birds, I set it on a bird.
Or use auto-ISO, metering multi, RAW and call it a day. Proper exposure of the bird is better done in post.
Because much BIF shooting is done at relatively high ISOs and not at base ISO, you'll get much lower noise exposing for the bird (using ETTR for dark birds) in-camera. I agree that shooting RAW is preferred to get the maximum DR and EV flexibility. Any auto-exposure method will yield inferior results if the bird is moving between variable backgrounds.
 
..
For non-panning shots do you prefer setting 1 or 3 of the Steady Shot options...and why?
For BIF I recommend to just switch it of. Yes, that means enabling and disabling it whenever a bird sits down. Thing is the IBIS does not see the bird and will fight your efforts to move the view precisely with the bird. Even panning mode doesn't seem to adapt quick enough to birds flight paths. Also any mode other than 3 shows you a stabilized view, which makes it much harder for you to actually stablilize the view around the brid...
I tried this for a month and did not find any improvement in my keeper rate. I'm a linebacker build, shooting hand held, so tracking with my 600/f4 wasn't any harder or easier no matter the mode that I select. I usually just leave it on 1. Maybe I'm just insensitive. It seemed to me that initial acquisition is easier with OSS on.
YMMV. We're all built different and have different levels of experience, particularly with the big lenses.
The issue is not whether you can track it but whether you get sharp results. The bird needs to stay in roughly the same place on the sensor and OS should not stop the relative angular movement. This gets more relevant, the faster the bird and the closer you get.
As I said, I experienced no change in my "keeper rate", or, as you say, "sharp results." Maybe the lower pixel-density of my a9 accounts for something that might be seen on an a7RIV, for example.

I'd love to see some controlled testing. Maybe someone could compare, shooting clays from various angles as they launch. Birds, just vary too much from shot to shot to make a meaningful comparison. I tried over several weeks and didn't notice a change when I started and when I stopped, using 600/f4 on a9. I do know where there's a Radio Controlled Model Plane field. Maybe one of the pilots there would help set up a repeatable test.
 
..
For non-panning shots do you prefer setting 1 or 3 of the Steady Shot options...and why?
For BIF I recommend to just switch it of. Yes, that means enabling and disabling it whenever a bird sits down. Thing is the IBIS does not see the bird and will fight your efforts to move the view precisely with the bird. Even panning mode doesn't seem to adapt quick enough to birds flight paths. Also any mode other than 3 shows you a stabilized view, which makes it much harder for you to actually stablilize the view around the brid...
I tried this for a month and did not find any improvement in my keeper rate. I'm a linebacker build, shooting hand held, so tracking with my 600/f4 wasn't any harder or easier no matter the mode that I select. I usually just leave it on 1. Maybe I'm just insensitive. It seemed to me that initial acquisition is easier with OSS on.
YMMV. We're all built different and have different levels of experience, particularly with the big lenses.
The issue is not whether you can track it but whether you get sharp results. The bird needs to stay in roughly the same place on the sensor and OS should not stop the relative angular movement. This gets more relevant, the faster the bird and the closer you get.
As I said, I experienced no change in my "keeper rate", or, as you say, "sharp results." Maybe the lower pixel-density of my a9 accounts for something that might be seen on an a7RIV, for example.
I'd love to see some controlled testing. Maybe someone could compare, shooting clays from various angles as they launch. Birds, just vary too much from shot to shot to make a meaningful comparison. I tried over several weeks and didn't notice a change when I started and when I stopped, using 600/f4 on a9. I do know where there's a Radio Controlled Model Plane field. Maybe one of the pilots there would help set up a repeatable test.
At high shutter speed you won't see much change since the OSS or IBIS will have little effect so it doesn't really matter what mode you use. Where you will see a change is in the EVF as the OSS tries to figure out what to do.

If you are using mode 1 when you track you might notice the EVF lags and then jumps and then lags - that is the OSS trying to figure out what the H you are doing - like hey stop shaking so much dude !!

Whereas in Mode 3 it might do a lot less of that since it is expecting tracking and in Mode 2 it will do that for vertical shake only.

Low shutter speeds OSS will affect image sharpness. So tracking a car or something where you want to get background motion blur e.g. motor sports but tack sharp subject use mode 2.

Apologies if you already know all this.
 
As I said, I experienced no change in my "keeper rate", or, as you say, "sharp results." Maybe the lower pixel-density of my a9 accounts for something that might be seen on an a7RIV, for example.
I'd love to see some controlled testing. Maybe someone could compare, shooting clays from various angles as they launch. Birds, just vary too much from shot to shot to make a meaningful comparison. I tried over several weeks and didn't notice a change when I started and when I stopped, using 600/f4 on a9. I do know where there's a Radio Controlled Model Plane field. Maybe one of the pilots there would help set up a repeatable test.
At high shutter speed you won't see much change since the OSS or IBIS will have little effect so it doesn't really matter what mode you use. Where you will see a change is in the EVF as the OSS tries to figure out what to do.

If you are using mode 1 when you track you might notice the EVF lags and then jumps and then lags - that is the OSS trying to figure out what the H you are doing - like hey stop shaking so much dude !!

Whereas in Mode 3 it might do a lot less of that since it is expecting tracking and in Mode 2 it will do that for vertical shake only.

Low shutter speeds OSS will affect image sharpness. So tracking a car or something where you want to get background motion blur e.g. motor sports but tack sharp subject use mode 2.

Apologies if you already know all this.
I've never observed any of the issues that you discuss. I shoot birds at high shutter speeds, so that might explain why I don't see any of what you seem to suffer.Are we both talking about an a9 with a large GM lens?
 
Hey Folks

Although I've been very pleased overall with my Olympus EMiii and Oly 300mm f4 prime lens I became curious about the abilities of Sony's new 200-2600mm tele zoom.

Just received this Sony lens for use with my A7iii. Wondering if anyone has decided upon a general settings configuration for this combo. Any advice appreciated.

It seems like Auto ISO is almost required for quickly shifting situations. But about where would you set the upper iso limit?

For non-panning shots do you prefer setting 1 or 3 of the Steady Shot options...and why?

How do you set up your Sony body's focus priorities etc to match this lens?

Thanks in advance for whatever info you can spare.

Gary
Check out Mark Smith's suggested settings for bird photography.. Its listed in the most frequently bookmarked threads - his videos cover this in amazing detail and it did a lot to help me configure my A7R4 - I would guess that most of it would apply to the A73

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63653941
I'm sure a lot of people happily spend an hour watching his video, (although normal attention span for concentrating for 99% of people is 10 mins), I don't have that time to waste. Why can't he just write something you can read in 2 mins or less? It's not that complicated and far more useful.
Hmm? In my opinion if a person doesn't have the time to spend the time learning how to shoot then it probably wouldn't be to productive (getting those shots) to think wildlife will act within a certain period of time. Just my two cents as I have waited for birds for a long time to do something as they usually just sit there perched doing nothing. :-D
So I suppose being a professional photographer for 30+ years counts for nothing?? It doesn't take 60 minutes to teach a few simple settings.
Who said anything about being a professional photographer? If you already a so-called "professional" photographer why are they watching this video in the first place? Besides Mark Smith's video might be lengthy it's more than a tutorial as it's a showcase that it does work or might be interesting to a person who feels he or she has time and is not always in a rush to get from point A to point B. I watched Mark Galer's video and Mark Smith's video on the Sony A9 when it comes wildlife/action photography. They take two different approaches to it, but they end up with basically the same results. Just because a "professional" photographer who has the fundamentals down pat doesn't mean a beginner doesn't .
 
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So as a Nikon professional why are you even here? Some of us watch Mark and others to get information that can help us become better photographers and I have been a photographer for 60 years and i still find myself learning something new. The word professional is subjective since you can be very good at one type of photography and do very poorly when it comes to doing other.
 
That is what I do. I go on Saturdays to the park where RCP planes are flying and try to improve my skills. It really helps in my BIF keeper rates. If you can keep up with the jets and the maneuvers they make you will find that most birds will be easy. " Now if Swallows would act like planes" but are more like bullets.
 
Hey Folks

Although I've been very pleased overall with my Olympus EMiii and Oly 300mm f4 prime lens I became curious about the abilities of Sony's new 200-2600mm tele zoom.

Just received this Sony lens for use with my A7iii. Wondering if anyone has decided upon a general settings configuration for this combo. Any advice appreciated.

It seems like Auto ISO is almost required for quickly shifting situations. But about where would you set the upper iso limit?

For non-panning shots do you prefer setting 1 or 3 of the Steady Shot options...and why?

How do you set up your Sony body's focus priorities etc to match this lens?

Thanks in advance for whatever info you can spare.

Gary
Check out Mark Smith's suggested settings for bird photography.. Its listed in the most frequently bookmarked threads - his videos cover this in amazing detail and it did a lot to help me configure my A7R4 - I would guess that most of it would apply to the A73

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63653941
I'm sure a lot of people happily spend an hour watching his video, (although normal attention span for concentrating for 99% of people is 10 mins), I don't have that time to waste. Why can't he just write something you can read in 2 mins or less? It's not that complicated and far more useful.
Hmm? In my opinion if a person doesn't have the time to spend the time learning how to shoot then it probably wouldn't be to productive (getting those shots) to think wildlife will act within a certain period of time. Just my two cents as I have waited for birds for a long time to do something as they usually just sit there perched doing nothing. :-D
So I suppose being a professional photographer for 30+ years counts for nothing?? It doesn't take 60 minutes to teach a few simple settings.
Who said anything about being a professional photographer? If you already a so-called "professional" photographer why are they watching this video in the first place? Besides Mark Smith's video might be lengthy it's more than a tutorial as it's a showcase that it does work or might be interesting to a person who feels he or she has time and is not always in a rush to get from point A to point B. I watched Mark Galer's video and Mark Smith's video on the Sony A9 when it comes wildlife/action photography. They take two different approaches to it, but they end up with basically the same results. Just because a "professional" photographer who has the fundamentals down pat doesn't mean a beginner doesn't .
I resent being labelled a 'so-called' professional photographer and fyi I have not watched the video nor will I. Most of the so called instructional videos nowadays have too much waffle and some are produced by amateurs who have now idea how to produce effective instructional videos. Maybe beginners such as yourself find these useful, 60 minutes is still a ridiculous length of time for a simple subject. The written word gets to the point quicker. The reason I use this forum? I have recently bought a 200-600 and have experimented with different settings for BIF, I was interested in seeing if others use the same.
 
So as a Nikon professional why are you even here? Some of us watch Mark and others to get information that can help us become better photographers and I have been a photographer for 60 years and i still find myself learning something new. The word professional is subjective since you can be very good at one type of photography and do very poorly when it comes to doing other.
I never said I was a 'Nikon' professional! I previously held associateships in the BMPA, MPA and IMBI and ran a successful business for 30 years before I retired. Yes I am also still learning and have just bought a 200-600 so was interested too read about settings others use to compare with mine. There is no need for a 60 minute video for something so simple.
 
What camera are you using with the 200-600?
 
So as a Nikon professional why are you even here? Some of us watch Mark and others to get information that can help us become better photographers and I have been a photographer for 60 years and i still find myself learning something new. The word professional is subjective since you can be very good at one type of photography and do very poorly when it comes to doing other.
... There is no need for a 60 minute video for something so simple.
I think that without watching the video, it might be a bit premature to say that. There are a lot of subtleties that need to be appreciated to get the best out of the camera and lens.

For example, when I got my A9II and read up how to use all the settings from the manual, I initially started by using "Recall Custom Hold" to switch between ordinary and Real-Time Tracking AF areas. The idea was that, if the bird was moving in a way that I thought would work best with RTT, I could swicth to that using the AF-On button that I had programmed to call up that Custom Set.

However, it turns out that there is a delay when using "Recall Custom Hold", even on the A9II, which is long enough to make that way of working unusable. So instead, I ended up using AF Area Registration to call up an alternate AF area mode because it is instant. I used Recall Custom Hold in situations where I wanted to switch from bird in flight to stationary birds, as the delay wasn't a problem in that scenario.

But I expect you already knew that.
 
...Manual mode is the way to go for birds, whether front or back lit.
Can't agree more on that. Staying in essentially the same place w/o massive weather changes (from full sunny to overcast for example) the needed exposure parameters remain essentially constant - even if the metering may suggest otherwise. The challenge is getting the exposure right on the bird - and not on the surroundings which might lead to a too short exposure in the case of a bright sky background or a too long exposure in the case of a darker shrub background.

For perched birds I'm using No. 1 stabilizer setting and exposure times of 1/400-500, sometimes longer if lighting is bad. To compensate for possible bad results related to handshake and/or subject moves I take more shots whenever possible.

For BIF I didn't come to a conclusion yet whether position 2, 3 or Off is the best. It depends on the flight path pattern / on the species. But one thing is for sure that pos. 1 affects image sharpness even in a relatively slow sidewards pan like following a distant bicycle rider.
 
So as a Nikon professional why are you even here? Some of us watch Mark and others to get information that can help us become better photographers and I have been a photographer for 60 years and i still find myself learning something new. The word professional is subjective since you can be very good at one type of photography and do very poorly when it comes to doing other.
... There is no need for a 60 minute video for something so simple.
I think that without watching the video, it might be a bit premature to say that. There are a lot of subtleties that need to be appreciated to get the best out of the camera and lens.

For example, when I got my A9II and read up how to use all the settings from the manual, I initially started by using "Recall Custom Hold" to switch between ordinary and Real-Time Tracking AF areas. The idea was that, if the bird was moving in a way that I thought would work best with RTT, I could swicth to that using the AF-On button that I had programmed to call up that Custom Set.

However, it turns out that there is a delay when using "Recall Custom Hold", even on the A9II, which is long enough to make that way of working unusable. So instead, I ended up using AF Area Registration to call up an alternate AF area mode because it is instant. I used Recall Custom Hold in situations where I wanted to switch from bird in flight to stationary birds, as the delay wasn't a problem in that scenario.

But I expect you already knew that.
There you go, you've explained what is needed in 2 paragraphs!!! No video needed.

I don't know of the differences between Sony cameras but I use the AF-on button to switch from Tracking to Flexible Spot Small for stationary birds, takes a split second on the A7Riv.

When a forum member asks a question surely it is better to answer it simply based on experience and not just say - watch a video?

Geo Cocker
 
...Manual mode is the way to go for birds, whether front or back lit.
Can't agree more on that. Staying in essentially the same place w/o massive weather changes (from full sunny to overcast for example) the needed exposure parameters remain essentially constant - even if the metering may suggest otherwise. The challenge is getting the exposure right on the bird - and not on the surroundings which might lead to a too short exposure in the case of a bright sky background or a too long exposure in the case of a darker shrub background.

For perched birds I'm using No. 1 stabilizer setting and exposure times of 1/400-500, sometimes longer if lighting is bad. To compensate for possible bad results related to handshake and/or subject moves I take more shots whenever possible.

For BIF I didn't come to a conclusion yet whether position 2, 3 or Off is the best. It depends on the flight path pattern / on the species. But one thing is for sure that pos. 1 affects image sharpness even in a relatively slow sidewards pan like following a distant bicycle rider.
We work a lot alike, but, even with a perched bird, I'll work with higher SS, like 1/1000 and, generally higher. With the latest improvements in noise reduction, I've grown almost oblivious to the ISO. I start at ISO 800 and f/8 and go up from there, except for a white bird in bright sun, where I'll pull ISO down to deal with highlights.

I suspect that my higher SSs makes up for any deficiencies in the OSS. I'm interested enough to test for that phenomenon, but I'm going to wait for my a1s to arrive before I do any serious testing.
 
So as a Nikon professional why are you even here? Some of us watch Mark and others to get information that can help us become better photographers and I have been a photographer for 60 years and i still find myself learning something new. The word professional is subjective since you can be very good at one type of photography and do very poorly when it comes to doing other.
... There is no need for a 60 minute video for something so simple.
I think that without watching the video, it might be a bit premature to say that. There are a lot of subtleties that need to be appreciated to get the best out of the camera and lens.

For example, when I got my A9II and read up how to use all the settings from the manual, I initially started by using "Recall Custom Hold" to switch between ordinary and Real-Time Tracking AF areas. The idea was that, if the bird was moving in a way that I thought would work best with RTT, I could swicth to that using the AF-On button that I had programmed to call up that Custom Set.

However, it turns out that there is a delay when using "Recall Custom Hold", even on the A9II, which is long enough to make that way of working unusable. So instead, I ended up using AF Area Registration to call up an alternate AF area mode because it is instant. I used Recall Custom Hold in situations where I wanted to switch from bird in flight to stationary birds, as the delay wasn't a problem in that scenario.

But I expect you already knew that.
There you go, you've explained what is needed in 2 paragraphs!!! No video needed.

I don't know of the differences between Sony cameras but I use the AF-on button to switch from Tracking to Flexible Spot Small for stationary birds, takes a split second on the A7Riv.

When a forum member asks a question surely it is better to answer it simply based on experience and not just say - watch a video?

Geo Cocker
http://www.gec.photography/
No, not when you know the video will do a far better job of explaining not just the answer to your immediate question but also to the many other questions you will likely have in the future.

It may also teach you new ways to do things you didn't realise you need that will improve your skill as a photographer.

Watch the video and then come back here and tell us it was a waste of time.
 
Hey Folks

Although I've been very pleased overall with my Olympus EMiii and Oly 300mm f4 prime lens I became curious about the abilities of Sony's new 200-2600mm tele zoom.

Just received this Sony lens for use with my A7iii. Wondering if anyone has decided upon a general settings configuration for this combo. Any advice appreciated.

It seems like Auto ISO is almost required for quickly shifting situations. But about where would you set the upper iso limit?

For non-panning shots do you prefer setting 1 or 3 of the Steady Shot options...and why?

How do you set up your Sony body's focus priorities etc to match this lens?

Thanks in advance for whatever info you can spare.

Gary
I rented the 200-600 late last summer. I have the A7III. Like some have said, watch Mark Smiths A7RIV setup video. It helped quite a bit with settings. Even on the "lowly" A7III.

ISO on my A7III is set to 100-6400. Sometimes I go higher depending. Up to 12,800. Now that I have Topaz Denoise, high ISO isn't really an issue now.

It's been recommended to have the Steady Shot set to 2 from what I've heard on videos and on Fred Mirandas site. I guess because of it's a general setting to use with both stills and BIF's? Only using the lens for a week I didn't get to try all the settings out. We had a couple of days of rain where I live.

Again, as Mark Smith and others has stated, he uses Zone most of the time and Flexible Spot Small. I have heard that many are successful using Center. Me when I rented that lens? I used Zone the most. That's because the lens is heavy for me and holding it still, hand held was a herculean feat. 5 surgeries in a year and a half including both thumb joints took a toll on my upper body strength.

Another great reference is Mark Galer. Also I carried the 200-600 like he did in his review of this lens. It's sits horizontaly on ones side. I now do that with the A7III and 100-400.

I ended up buying the Sony 100-400, pre retirement gift to myself. Lighter and more versatile. And much easier to carry around.
Yes, the hanging on the side method of Mark Galer allows steady vertical panning and using the horizontal panning of the ballhead base allows for horizontal panning. The only issue is that your tripod must be on a level footing, so that vertical is really vertical and not slanted. I use this when I am with a small ballhead which does not have vertical panning but all directional. But I also have a ballhead with both vertical and horizontal panning, then I don't need to do what Mark Galer is doing.

Similarly, due to weight I choose the Sigma 100-400mm, but only disappointed that I cannot use any TC with it. Sigma 100-400mm DG DN (Native E-mount) is the lightest in the 100-400mm FL. I just got myself the Tamron 70-300mm (without VC) weighting ONLY 545gm - woooow. But it takes 3 months to wait for my pre-order. And the result so far is very sharp, but will need to use it with monopod or tripod to be able to use lower ISO and smaller f.stops.

Cheers.
 
So as a Nikon professional why are you even here? Some of us watch Mark and others to get information that can help us become better photographers and I have been a photographer for 60 years and i still find myself learning something new. The word professional is subjective since you can be very good at one type of photography and do very poorly when it comes to doing other.
... There is no need for a 60 minute video for something so simple.
I think that without watching the video, it might be a bit premature to say that. There are a lot of subtleties that need to be appreciated to get the best out of the camera and lens.

For example, when I got my A9II and read up how to use all the settings from the manual, I initially started by using "Recall Custom Hold" to switch between ordinary and Real-Time Tracking AF areas. The idea was that, if the bird was moving in a way that I thought would work best with RTT, I could swicth to that using the AF-On button that I had programmed to call up that Custom Set.

However, it turns out that there is a delay when using "Recall Custom Hold", even on the A9II, which is long enough to make that way of working unusable. So instead, I ended up using AF Area Registration to call up an alternate AF area mode because it is instant. I used Recall Custom Hold in situations where I wanted to switch from bird in flight to stationary birds, as the delay wasn't a problem in that scenario.

But I expect you already knew that.
There you go, you've explained what is needed in 2 paragraphs!!! No video needed.

I don't know of the differences between Sony cameras but I use the AF-on button to switch from Tracking to Flexible Spot Small for stationary birds, takes a split second on the A7Riv.

When a forum member asks a question surely it is better to answer it simply based on experience and not just say - watch a video?

Geo Cocker
http://www.gec.photography/
No, not when you know the video will do a far better job of explaining not just the answer to your immediate question but also to the many other questions you will likely have in the future.
60 mins is a ridiculous amount of time for a tuition video, no-one is going to watch non stop and remember everything! A beginner would probably give up confused. I am sure the guy is very good but if he had any sense he would make a series of short specific 10min videos.

I am not alone read what DmitryA7III wrote below!
It may also teach you new ways to do things you didn't realise you need that will improve your skill as a photographer.
Maybe, maybe not. I would never just do what one person suggests. If I need help about something new I would post a question and evaluate responses from individuals then experiment to see what suits me.
Watch the video and then come back here and tell us it was a waste of time.
No sorry.
 
You can lead a horse to water...

Funny how lots of people who've watched the video recommend it to someone asking for advice but it's criticised by someone who hasn't.

Whatever.:-|
 

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