FZ300 Contrast thread continued thank you everyone!

jlina said:

Hey Albert! I had to actually read part of the manual after I factory reset the camera. As I was looking for how to change the monitor luminous setting, I found a setting that says EV composure reset. It is in the basic menu. apparently if you turn that on it will reset the EV composure dial to zero whenever you turn the camera off. So I did we'll see! That will make it a lot easier to follow your recommendation page 68 ish of the basic manual I think.

Click to expand...

You might consider to download the pdf version of the advance operating manual of FZ300:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/319156.pdf

You can save a copy onto your phone or tablet for easy reference.

I prefer to consult with the pdf version than the paper manual. Not only I can do it anywhere, I can do a search over the manual easier than page turning. Also the links there could lead me faster and easier going to where I want to look at. Usually I would start with 1 or 2 major pages (most at the front), click on the links can bring me where I want to look at.

For FZ300, you might visit P.2 (a general guide), click on the links there could take you to P.18 (dials, fns keys, buttons , ports etc), P.325 (the icons on the screen) and P.336 (the Menu).


P.2 of the pdf manual, click on the links (blue arrows) can bring you fast to the page you wish to look at...


P.18, dial, fn keys, buttons etc, click on the link onward to learn the detail of the keys etc...


P.325, the icons. e.g. click on the link of P.113 to study the Photo Style


P.336, the Menu. e.g. click on the link to P115 would bring you to the content of Filter Setting.

What can be faster than that...

jlina said:

Then I read this fairly hilarious thread from back in 2016 here on the forum where someone said that when you're asking for NR and contrast and sharpness settings you're looking for a magical incarnation to fix your poor size sensor LOL. And indeed there are many many opinions about what those settings should be but I thought you once told me not to use NR? Does that mean put it on minus four or leave it at zero in your opinion?

Click to expand...

I keep all of mine at 0, including the NR.

Before all, if you shoot RAW, the concern could be smaller because during RAW conversion, the RAW converter would apply NR, or we might apply a stronger NR. The following is more about SOOC jpg and looking for minimum reliance on PP.

How to adjust on the setting is a matter of personal preference. It is always better to test and find out the best to you.

On another forum I told a member, who newly bought a GX85, that the usual recommendation on NR=-5 (switch off NR) might not be the best on fine detail vs noise, after his own testing he found NR=-2 be best for his eyes... To me, I am happy with NR=0.

An illustration on the NR effect:


A very noisy image (shot at ISO25600), although NR=0 (still certain NR been applied in-camera)


Heavy handed NR been applied to the above in PP. Note the noise been gone but so the fine details...

You might wish to take a few shots using various jpg setting, look at them at your usual view (e.g. I would prefer to examine them at 1:1 or 100% for the pixel level quality), find the best for you.

For NR, take a shot using various NR setting under the photo style (says NR=-5, -3, 0, +3, +5, whereas -5 =switch NR off and +5=strongest NR), use a lower exposure (underexposure can get more noise) and shoot under a relatively darker condition, examine the output at 1:1 on you monitor. I shall look for the noise condition (the difference on noise among various settings, and their form: grainy or smooth creamy etc). Also shall compare the fine detail. NR setting is related to noise reduction done in-camera. Since NR will erase fine detail, generally the idea is to set in-camera NR to low ~ off, let the fine detail be retained and do NR in PP instead (usually could be smarter and more effective).

The following was my finding (on GX85) to keep NR at default:


Noise of left sample is on the high side to me. The noise on the right image is better but the fine detail had been affected. The center one had noise in check and fine detail similar to the left image. Therefore I concluded that the center image setting should be the best balance to me.

Since every model is different, you better test FZ300 to look for the best setting for yourself.

You could carry out similar testes on the other jpg settings:

• Contrast (better under a good sunny day),
• Sharpening (shots on very fine detail scene, e.g. flower close up),
• saturation (also under plenty of sun), and
• color tone (similar to saturation)

to find out the best to your taste, save it for your own customized profile... I pay less attention to the above since vivid mode generally can meet with my requirement.

From there on, you can leave the Panny color behind and set up your own: Jacqueline color to make your FZ300 really belonging to you.

jlina said:

[...]

Click to expand...

--
Albert
** Please feel free to download the original image I posted here and edit it as you like **

jlina said:

Hi John! Having done a factory reset on the camera to get the Wi-Fi router password off of it I have had to go redo all the settings. It is indeed extremely complicated there are plenty of things I have no idea what they are still. But about the fz-80 the reason I never followed through is because of how much I hated the zs70! I was of the impression that it was the zs70 upgraded and remember I shot for one day with the fs70 and hated it; returned it the very next day! But just in these recent test sessions with the fz300 the day the wind was blowing 20 to 30 mph gusts at the end of my street convinced me that I really needed the weather sealing. And I haven't even ventured near to a beach yet

Regarding the previous discussion regarding the NR etc settings I am going to post with graham recommends below this is an interesting article however he only uses nr minus two. I'm still undecided about what the settings on those parameters should be.


Settings

Thanks!

Jacqueline

Click to expand...

Whislt doing tests for NR and other jpeg settings I like to take my test shot using jpeg and raw with all settings at 0. I use the jpeg with zeroed settings as my reference then use the in camer raw converter to make new jpegs with different settings. That way I know I am comparing the exact same shot.

jlina said:

Hi John! Having done a factory reset on the camera to get the Wi-Fi router password off of it I have had to go redo all the settings. It is indeed extremely complicated there are plenty of things I have no idea what they are still. But about the fz-80 the reason I never followed through is because of how much I hated the zs70! I was of the impression that it was the zs70 upgraded and remember I shot for one day with the fs70 and hated it; returned it the very next day! But just in these recent test sessions with the fz300 the day the wind was blowing 20 to 30 mph gusts at the end of my street convinced me that I really needed the weather sealing. And I haven't even ventured near to a beach yet

Click to expand...

..

The ZS70 camera have what they call a "slow lens".

Even though it have a zoom range of 24-720mm,

but it's aperture ranges from f/3.3-6.4 (f/6.4 ouch!).




ZS70 camera





..

The ZS15 camera, even though have 24-383mm zoom range,

have a better aperture range from f/3.3-5.9 (f/5.9 is better!).




ZS15 camera



..



The FZ80 have a fantastic zoom range from 20-1200mm,

and have an attractive aperture range from f/2.8-5.9 (starts at f/2.8!).




FZ80 camera

..

The ZS70 camera you've mentioned,

is nothing in comparison to the FZ80,

except it's "name" is kind of similar.













..

jlina said:

Regarding the previous discussion regarding the NR etc settings I am going to post with graham recommends below this is an interesting article however he only uses nr minus two. I'm still undecided about what the settings on those parameters should be.


Settings

Thanks!

Jacqueline

Click to expand...

..



Looks like great experimentings!











..

Cheers!

--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
*** Trash-talker won't rule us ***

alcelc said:

The following was my finding (on GX85) to keep NR at default:


Noise of left sample is on the high side to me. The noise on the right image is better but the fine detail had been affected. The center one had noise in check and fine detail similar to the left image. Therefore I concluded that the center image setting should be the best balance to me.

Since every model is different, you better test FZ300 to look for the best setting for yourself.

Click to expand...

..

Good suggestion to download the FZ300 pdf manual.

..

Interesting testing using "iso25600".

But that's crazy to use that as a reference to using "Noise Reduction".

..

To be fair,

your GX85 uses a m4/3" sensor,

which is different than the 1/2.3" sensors,

that used by ZS15, ZS70, FZ80, FZ300 cameras.

..

I agree with your last statement,

that every camera should be tested,

for it's best settings that's to be used.

..

Cheers!

--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
*** Trash-talker won't rule us ***

Comparing m4/3" and 1/2.3" sensor sizes.

..













..

Cheers!

--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
*** Trash-talker won't rule us ***

jshen808 said:

The ZS70 camera have what they call a "slow lens".

Even though it have a zoom range of 24-720mm,

but it's aperture ranges from f/3.3-6.4 (f/6.4 ouch!).


ZS70 camera

..

The ZS15 camera, even though have 24-383mm zoom range,

have a better aperture range from f/3.3-5.9 (f/5.9 is better!).


ZS15 camera

..

The FZ80 have a fantastic zoom range from 20-1200mm,

and have an attractive aperture range from f/2.8-5.9 (starts at f/2.8!).


FZ80 camera

..

The ZS70 camera you've mentioned,

is nothing in comparison to the FZ80,

except it's "name" is kind of similar.

Click to expand...

I think you are overstating your case.

Regarding the comparison between the apertures of the ZS15 and the ZS70, they are both f/3.3 at their minimum focal length of 24mm full frame equivalent. At its maximum focal length of 383mm the ZS 15 is f/5.9. At that focal length the ZS70 is f/6.0. Personally I would not regard that as a significant difference, especially as the ZS70 is f/5.9 until 322mm, and its f/6.0 goes on to 500mm, which the ZS15 cannot reach. And the ZS70 does not reach the f/6.4 about which you wrote "ouch!" until it gets right out to its maximum focal length of 720mm, far beyond what the ZS15 can reach.

As to the comparison between the ZS70 and the FZ80, they have the same sized sensor with a similar number of pixels, which must presumably put a similar limit on what either of them can achieve apart from the effect of the FZ80 being physically much larger and therefore, I assume, being able to have better optics, and it also having much larger reach. The larger reach has obvious potential benefits for those who need it, but is that, and any optical quality advantage, really enough to justify saying that the ZS70 "is nothing in comparison to the FZ80"? For example do you think that if the following shots had been captured with an FZ80 they would be so much better that one could reasonably say that the ZS70 is "nothing in comparison to the FZ80, except that it's "name" is kind of similar"? If so, I would welcome some like for like comparisons which demonstrate this overwhelming superiority, about which I am as you will gather somewhat doubtful. (I don't have an FZ80 otherwise I would do such a comparison myself.)

(And aside from any issues of reach and quality, the ZS70 can be conveniently carried around in a pocket, which the FZ80 cannot, which for some people will be a significant disadvantage compared to the ZS70,)

Edit: On reviewing the post I see that almost all of these examples are in fact from a TZ60 (ZS40) rather than a TZ90 (ZS70). I don't think that makes any difference, except perhaps to the potential benefit of the FZ80 with it being compared to a three generations earlier model of the TZxx series.

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--
Nick
Summary of photo activity and output since 2007 https://fliesandflowers.blogspot.com/2019/01/when-i-retired-in-2006-i-had-it-in-mind.html
Flickr image collections http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/

gardenersassistant said:

I think you are overstating your case.

Click to expand...

..

Fantastic pictures with your TZ60/ZS40 camera!

Did you take these pictures using "raw"?

It's 18.1mp, 24-720mm, f/3.3-6.4, 1/2.3" sensor,

which is similar to the ZS70 camera,

with 20.3mp, 24-720mm, f/3.3-6.4, 1/2.3" sensor.

..

You're right, that I've "overstated" things.

When I "write", it's for everyone to read,

whether it's here now, or of a year later.

Not everyone have your knowledge & experience.

Your knowledge & experience helps you,

to use a camera no matter which models.

..

You know how a beginner uses a zoom camera,

no matter what zoom, they always zoom all the way out.

This is the reason why most warn not to go into the digital zoom,

because that's when they ask "why is my pictures looks so bad?".

So it does makes a "difference" whether a camera's lens ends with f/5.9 of f/6.4,

because that will often determine a beginner's "experience" with a certain camera.

..

And for someone who is a novice with the digital cameras,

saying that the FZ80 camera (or any camera) is not good based on it's name,

needs to be corrected, because there are other beginners who is buying cameras,

and they should not be given the wrong informations about a certain camera model,

that someone who have'nt tried themselves yet, and to make a wrong judgement call.

..

Regarding the FZ80 camera,

it have been given some bad lickings,

even I had my doubts about this camera,

even though I have not tried using it yet.

That's until I've seen the FZ80 pictures from VT,

which really impressed the heck out of me,

then I realized that the FZ80 can be "tweaked",

so to get the most from the camera's images.

..

Cheers!

--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
*** Trash-talker won't rule us ***

jshen808 said:

gardenersassistant said:

I think you are overstating your case.

Click to expand...

..

Fantastic pictures with your TZ60/ZS40 camera!

Click to expand...

Thank you.

jshen808 said:

Did you take these pictures using "raw"?

Click to expand...

Yes.

jshen808 said:

It's 18.1mp, 24-720mm, f/3.3-6.4, 1/2.3" sensor,

which is similar to the ZS70 camera,

with 20.3mp, 24-720mm, f/3.3-6.4, 1/2.3" sensor.

..

You're right, that I've "overstated" things.

Click to expand...

OK. We're in agreement.

jshen808 said:

When I "write", it's for everyone to read,

whether it's here now, or of a year later.

Not everyone have your knowledge & experience.

Your knowledge & experience helps you,

to use a camera no matter which models.

..

You know how a beginner uses a zoom camera,

no matter what zoom, they always zoom all the way out.

This is the reason why most warn not to go into the digital zoom,

because that's when they ask "why is my pictures looks so bad?".

So it does makes a "difference" whether a camera's lens ends with f/5.9 of f/6.4,

Click to expand...

But we are still disagreeing about this. At the same focal length (so you get the same framing from the same position) the aperture is almost exactly the the same, so the fact that the ZS70 has a smaller maximum aperture at a focal length the ZS15 cannot reach doesn't make any difference.......

jshen808 said:

because that will often determine a beginner's "experience" with a certain camera.

Click to expand...

because the beginner will get the same experience for the same photo (same framing from the same place).

jshen808 said:

..

And for someone who is a novice with the digital cameras,

saying that the FZ80 camera (or any camera) is not good based on it's name,

needs to be corrected, because there are other beginners who is buying cameras,

and they should not be given the wrong informations about a certain camera model,

that someone who have'nt tried themselves yet, and to make a wrong judgement call.

..

Regarding the FZ80 camera,

it have been given some bad lickings,

even I had my doubts about this camera,

even though I have not tried using it yet.

That's until I've seen the FZ80 pictures from VT,

which really impressed the heck out of me,

then I realized that the FZ80 can be "tweaked",

so to get the most from the camera's images.

Click to expand...

I know that a lot of people don't want to spend time on processing, which is fair enough, but in my experience processing can make a rather large difference to some photos, especially when the shooting conditions are difficult (for example high contrast). Processing opens up additional opportunities for people who are prepared to engage with it.

Here are a couple of examples, one TZ60 and one TZ90, showing quite a big difference between the out of the camera JPEG on the left and a processed raw file on the right. You may or may not like the look of the processed files, but that is beside the point because what I think this illustrates is that processing can sometimes make a big difference to the look of a photo. The particular look you choose for it is a matter of personal taste, but (depending on the photo) there can be plenty of scope for "tweaking".



As far as raw goes, some people think shooting raw doesn't make any difference, and that you can get just as good results processing a JPEG as a raw file. I think that is often true. I shot and processed JPEGs for several years before starting to use raw, and I still use and process JPEGs quite often, for some purposes for which raw isn't available. So I have nothing against processing JPEGs. But I do believe that processing raw gives you additional opportunities which are not available with JPEG (and not just with highlights and shadows, but also with some processing options such as DXO's Prime and DeepPrime noise reduction which are only available for raw).



--
Nick
Summary of photo activity and output since 2007 https://fliesandflowers.blogspot.com/2019/01/when-i-retired-in-2006-i-had-it-in-mind.html
Flickr image collections http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/

Hi jlina.

Just a quick post in response to this quote:

“Then I read this fairly hilarious thread from back in 2016 here on the forum where someone said that when you're asking for NR and contrast and sharpness settings you're looking for a magical incarnation to fix your poor size sensor…

And indeed there are many many opinions about what those settings should be but I thought you once told me not to use NR? Does that mean put it on minus four or leave it at zero in your opinion?”

There are indeed many opinions about setting because they are and will always be to individual taste. No-one but you sees through your eyes, and we all have different tastes and ideas on what represents a good image and how to go about achieving the look we want.

In relation to the first section of your quote, ignore the idiotic idea that tweaks represent a search for some magical fix to compensate for small sensors. Trust me; I often fool many viewers into assuming my FZ300 photos are taken with much more expensive DSLR gear with prime lenses worth thousands of pounds. If tweaks were not meant to be made, they would not be facilitated by the manufacturer. Panasonic would have fixed the defaults with no option to change, as they do in some of their more compact models.

As it is, the FZ300 has a wide spectrum of change to play with. And thank goodness it does, because for many of us, including me, FZ300 defaults render nowhere near the pinnacle of OOC Jpeg image quality attainable with this camera.

Re the second point of your quote, ‘noise reduction’ tweaks are arguably the most influential and important of all in relation to this model. Secondly comes in-camera sharpening. Leave both of these at default and you’ll never see the full potential of FZ300 jpegs. Reduce noise reduction and increase sharpening to taste, however, and you create solid foundations for change.

Eventually you’ll find and settle on YOUR OWN idea of good output. Enjoy the tweaking and learning. This little gem of a camera is truly capable of taking stunningly great photos, once it’s set up correctly. Everything else then comes from knowing how, when and where to use the camera to its full potential. That only comes through experience – and the more of that you have, the better you will become. No exceptions and very few shortcuts to be had. ;-)

On that note, I wish you all the very best with this generally excellent camera.

Happy shooting to ya…

gardenersassistant said:

But we are still disagreeing about this.

Click to expand...

..

You do good work, and there's no doubt about it.

Again, it's because you have knowledge & experience,

as well as knowledge & experience in using your cameras.

..

It's great you like using "raw", and enjoys doing "post processing".

As you've mentioned, working with "raw" isn't everyone's "cup of tea".

But it's great that you can do a fantastic job in editing your "raw" images.

..

Even though the FZ80 isn't everyone's "cup of tea",

but I stand by what I've said about anyone not trying it first.

After all, the FZ80 can go from 20mm at f/2.8 to 1200mm at f/5.9,

which is pretty good specs when comparing to the ZS40 & ZS70 cameras.




FZ80





..

Cheers!

--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
*** Trash-talker won't rule us ***

You do great work,

and your pictures shows it.

..

And I respect if you guard your "secret sauce",

and don't wish to reveal the "settings" you're using.

..

And I also knows, that the receipe of the "secret sauce" can change,

as with our experiences changes, to try even greater improvements.

..

But essentially,

you're asking folks to "reinvent the wheel" by themselves,

of course it's nice of you to give hints, maybe add a pinch of salt.

..

Continue with your great works!

Always a pleasure seeing your fantastic pictures.

..

Cheers!

--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
*** Trash-talker won't rule us ***

Hi! I don't have any sauce LOL. However I do have a newly trademarked Jacqueline's color LOL!

Take care John.

--
jlina

Hi there how are you? That's a little bit complicated for me but what settings do you generally use? I find the differences to be extremely slight. Thanks so much for posting.

Jacqueline

Hi Albert! Yeah I did download the advance manual a long time ago LOL. It's almost barely starting to make sense to me at this point. Manuals might as well be math! I am going to reassign f4 the live view function at some point and probably make it the EV meter.

I remember that you suggested zero I just didn't remember the photo comparison that's amazing. I also read a lot about how much is done in camera, and that a lot of people don't allow the processing in camera to do what it can. How didn't actually says that a raw or jpeg can often be better than what people do post-processing. SOOC & Jacqueline color forever once I figure out what I'm doing haha.

Have a good one!

Hi Stevie! That's why I'm researching this settings further now that I'm a little farther along. Thanks so much for posting. Anytime they put an actual function in the camera such as that level line, I figure that somebody thought it was pretty important. That's why photo teach I think it was only had to tell me once to make my horizons level. It doesn't matter at all to me but it does to the photography world, so if it helps the photo I'm happy to do it although I cannot stand to shoot with that line in there so I just now pay attention to it.

if you ever get a chance to post again here I'd like to know your opinion of the different filters; low key in specific, do you ever use them?

Thanks again have a good one!

Hi Nick! for some reason the sc70 I got compressed all the seagulls in the foreground to where they were a jumble on top of each other. One could argue I don't know how to focus but given that I was focused at the end of the pier that was so unsettling I returned the camera. So I agree that you have gotten excellent results here. However just thinking about taking the fz300 down to where there's actual sand makes me shudder. I could never have taken that camera where I can take this one

I also wonder what the difference is between the native zoom and just using the digital zoom on mine which also goes out to 1200.

since I've pretty much decided to keep this camera especially as I went through all this trouble to reset the Wi-Fi without having my router information last night it's kind of academic. if I get a second camera I will get a 1-in sensor I'm pretty sure. Thank you hope you're having a great day!

PS Albert, so did you know that setting was there that I screenshotted? I'm reading that correctly right it is going to reset that AV meter to zero every time I turn the camera off? I'll be trying a little while today but in general that's great news isn't it?!

jlina said:

Hi Nick! for some reason the sc70 I got compressed all the seagulls in the foreground to where they were a jumble on top of each other. One could argue I don't know how to focus but given that I was focused at the end of the pier that was so unsettling I returned the camera. So I agree that you have gotten excellent results here. However just thinking about taking the fz300 down to where there's actual sand makes me shudder. I could never have taken that camera where I can take this one

I also wonder what the difference is between the native zoom and just using the digital zoom on mine which also goes out to 1200.

since I've pretty much decided to keep this camera especially as I went through all this trouble to reset the Wi-Fi without having my router information last night it's kind of academic.

Click to expand...

I think you are starting to get comfortable with the FZ300. That's good.

jlina said:

if I get a second camera I will get a 1-in sensor I'm pretty sure.

Click to expand...

That makes sense. Larger sensor, less reach, better for lower light and detail, and (possibly, not sure about this) better rendition of colours and textures.

jlina said:

Thank you hope you're having a great day!

Click to expand...

Thinking about nr, sharpness etc. It is probably also relevant that one consider what they shoot. Ships vs birds

So...I finally shot a bird! Nature rewarded me. Or my cat like camera reflexes due to all of your teachings on here clicked on.




zoom test




cropped I GOT IT!!! Thanks yall!

I think the FZ300 has enough zoom for my backyard and for the end of my street...now it's onto some sand and beach!



--
jlina

jlina said:

Hi! I don't have any sauce LOL. However I do have a newly trademarked Jacqueline's color LOL!

Take care John.

Click to expand...

..

That's great you are finding your preferred color settings!

Cheers!

--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
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