FZ300 Contrast thread continued thank you everyone!

Hi Albert! I did a lot of contrast shooting today I even lowered the amount of light on the flash with that adjustment in there. Thank you for the advice.

I think that most of this can also be done post-processing right? because I feel like if I had taken the time to change the settings I would not have got that shot.

however I discovered an interesting thing today if I use vivid and low-key I basically get the exact colors I've been looking for. also I went all the way up to Ev plus one on the paint brushes I posted here for Bruce. Probably should have put them here actually. It worked out very well.

I still haven't managed to even get to zebras but I'm looking forward to it. I heard something about you can preset them.

Thanks and have a great evening or day depending on what time it is there

Your friend Jacqueline

jlina said:

Thank you Nick! John and I are having a debate over the concepts difficult and complex. Your photos define difficult and complex for me! The ones you posted on the best of 2020 thread are simply amazing.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

jlina said:

And btw, they kind of make my skin crawl but I examined every one of them.

Honestly, focus is achieved. All I ever wanted from the camera except for 3 weeks in it decided it wouldn't connect via bluetooth. I can win that war, or return it so it's all good.

Oh, and if I put the camera into vivid and lowkey I pretty much get the same color shift we were discussing in white balance I think. I haven't done side by side comparisons.

Click to expand...

That surprises me. I wouldn't have expected a colour shift from either of those. I would have thought they would involve increased saturation and reduced contrast, not moving colours around. A side by side might be instructive.

jlina said:

Best wishes to you this fine day! FIRST LEAF OF SPRING! here 3 days after the leaves fell?! OMG. buds are budding already. Love the tropics


pear trees are ripe! this is an annual photo for me

Click to expand...

We have a mild maritime microclimate here and we often have a few things flowering in the winter. At the moment we have a mixture of winter flowering plants, plants still carrying on with last season's flowering, plants that have started next season's flowering, and seed pods and old foliage, and buds.



























--
Nick
Summary of photo activity and output since 2007 https://fliesandflowers.blogspot.com/2019/01/when-i-retired-in-2006-i-had-it-in-mind.html
Flickr image collections http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/

jlina said:

Hi Albert! I did a lot of contrast shooting today I even lowered the amount of light on the flash with that adjustment in there. Thank you for the advice.

I think that most of this can also be done post-processing right? because I feel like if I had taken the time to change the settings I would not have got that shot.

Click to expand...

Some thoughts.

If there is a risk of missing a shot then I may start with one or two "safety shots", using whatever settings the camera happens to have set at that moment. Then I will try to adjust the exposure, using what I see on the screen, including any zebras, and taking account of any over-exposure blinkies I noticed (if I did notice any) in an instant review of the safety shot(s) as I am capturing them. (I have Review set to "Hold", so as soon as a shot is taken it appears on the screen. As soon as I half press the shutter button it disappears, so it doesn't slow me down.)

In adjusting the exposure it doesn't have to be a matter of turning the exposure down until there are no zebras (or on review, blinkies). Small areas of over-exposure may be fine, or sometimes even large areas. It is a matter of judgement and learning from experience as to what works. And there are complications, for example:

• People often regard over-exposure as being when an area goes to featureless white (the area is said to be "blown"). However, that means that all three channels (red, blue and green) are at their maximum values. If colour matters to you (and I know colour does matter to you), then you should try to avoid any of the channels getting chopped off at their maximum values. When one or two channels get into that state the colours will change, even though the area won't be blown to white. You can get an idea of whether any of the channels is maxing out by having the histograms for all three of the channels showing during review.
• It is different when shooting raw. Raw files can hold more information about highlights and you can expose raw a bit more without maxing out any of the channels. This means that "reading" what you see on the screen and any zebras or blinkies needs a slightly different interpretation. Here too it is a case of learning from experience.
• When post processing, with raw you may be able to use the extra information that raw can capture to better handle difficult images such as those of high contrast scenes or delicately coloured petals compared to what you can do with processing a JPEG (You can for example alter white balance with more subtlety when processing raw files). But your post processing skills may need to be fairly good for these potential advantages of raw to work. Some people for example find they can't get anything better from processed raws than from processed JPEGs, and some people find they can't make processed raws as good as out of the camera JPEGs.

As with so much else, you need to experiment and, over time, find out what works for you. And that may change over time. It certainly has done for me.

jlina said:

Hi Albert! I did a lot of contrast shooting today I even lowered the amount of light on the flash with that adjustment in there. Thank you for the advice.

I think that most of this can also be done post-processing right? because I feel like if I had taken the time to change the settings I would not have got that shot.

however I discovered an interesting thing today if I use vivid and low-key I basically get the exact colors I've been looking for. also I went all the way up to Ev plus one on the paint brushes I posted here for Bruce. Probably should have put them here actually. It worked out very well.

I still haven't managed to even get to zebras but I'm looking forward to it. I heard something about you can preset them.

Click to expand...

P.338 of FZ300 pdf manual




P.196 of FZ300 pdf manual

You can set up zebra 1 and zebra 2, leave it there (as long as not set zebra = OFF), zebra would be always on and will appear covering section(s) which theatrically reaches the set white saturation level.

As I only have interest on highlight overblown, I set mine to 105% (zebra 1 is enough to me, I do not touch zebra 2).

Zebra, if set at 100% or higher, will tell us highlight overblown is happening at the setting we used, where is the overblown area and how large the overblown area would be. It is a very convenience and fast visual guide allowing us to push for the optimal exposure setting. Real time histogram just let us know statistically would overblown (or shadow clipping) be happened. It can never tell us how big is it, and where are those overblown.

However, I wish you might still remember my old writings on the exposure behavior of Panasonic. On my M43 ILCs, while zebra (at 105%) first appears, it does not really mean white saturation (+1/3ev room for G85 & GX7 and +2/3ev room for GX85, hence, you must test it for your FZ300).

While I know my G85 has 1/3ev room on zebra at 105%, it becomes very easy to me. Use A, set the required aperture, look at the live view in evf. Do EC (+ev or -ev) until zebra first appeared, then add +1/3ev more. 99% of time I can get an image at optimal exposure (highest exposure I can get just before overblown happening). A matter of 1 or 2 clicks on the EC dial for <1 second.

Only when under certain special condition, like the kids on the swing in quite serious backlit that the high DR of the scene require me to overblow the highlight to exchange for a brighter shadow (for SOOC jpg), then I shall dial in more +ve on EC until I am happy with the balance. Then, I might take slightly longer time on the resting and decision...

jlina said:

Thanks and have a great evening or day depending on what time it is there

Click to expand...

BTW, in order to ensure a faster start up on every power up time, might consider to reset EC to 0 on every power off. This will ensure we shall never overlook on having adjusted EC last shooting session, that might bring forward to next shot.




P.339 of FZ300 pdf manual

After practicing, you might be surprised that the so said "careful setting" indeed is a matter of second(s) to set up the parameters and take a shot. The faster you can make a decision on what to take and what to give up, the shorter time you would need for it. During the learning stage, you might find a lot to consider, a lot of work vs P&S on full auto, indeed when you have built up your experience and more well acquaintance with your camera, shooting is not difficult at all.

jlina said:

Your friend Jacqueline

Click to expand...

--
Albert
** Please feel free to download the original image I posted here and edit it as you like **

I feel like zebras will be as important as contrast eventually so you're right. Will try to remember to reset the EV meter although you remember it took me 3 weeks to decide to move it. It's all going to become habit I'm sure. my phone will not connect through direct Wi-Fi or Bluetooth to the camera it seems to think it's an insecure connection which is annoying. However I got it to connect to my new tablet directly and I'm assuming if I'm not close to my house I will be able to connect via Wi-Fi direct or my phone just is going to reject it entirely and I'll have to try Bluetooth. I didn't want to connect via Wi-Fi as it was showing my router password every time I turned it on! So that's the last problem I'm dealing with today and now I'm off for a rest

thank you so much for all the good advice we've learned to get some depth in our photos but now it's time to learn to really work that background! I am of the opinion, and I think you are too that the background should add something to the photo even if it's just a washed out color field.

J

--
jlina

Thanks Nick that's great information! I haven't even used the histogram or any of the color balances on screen because I doubt that I can manage to take a picture with all that visual noise. I don't even use the level line as my maintenance man used to say " the level is in the eyes." however once someone pointed out to me the picture should be level I did start leveling the camera, baby steps LOL.

I also bet you're right about the color in vivid and Lo-Fi; it just looks sharper in camera I didn't really examine it on a computer yet as I've been messing with the Wi-Fi settings. Will take all this advice into the notes and use it in the future. Thank you!

jlina said:

I feel like zebras will be as important as contrast eventually so you're right. Will try to remember to reset the EV meter although you remember it took me 3 weeks to decide to move it. It's all going to become habit I'm sure. my phone will not connect through direct Wi-Fi or Bluetooth to the camera it seems to think it's an insecure connection which is annoying. However I got it to connect to my new tablet directly and I'm assuming if I'm not close to my house I will be able to connect via Wi-Fi direct or my phone just is going to reject it entirely and I'll have to try Bluetooth. I didn't want to connect via Wi-Fi as it was showing my router password every time I turned it on! So that's the last problem I'm dealing with today and now I'm off for a rest

Click to expand...

Are you running Android 10 or higher (I am a phone idiot ) on your phone?

I recently upgraded to a Samsung Android 10 phone and failed to establish a wifi connection under the out of factory version. A firmware update later shortly had the problem solved. Sadly another firmware update returned me to the old problem. Since then, my phone fails to talk to my Panny cameras (3 different models). If I need wifi remote operation, I have to borrow the Android 8 phone from my wife, or recall the retired Android 7 phone for the job....

BTW, all over last 3 months, my Android 10 Samsung phone refuse to update Chrome! ☹

On my older Android devices, the wifi connection is very simple. But beware of any strong wifi signal interference nearby. I once experienced problem on connection/stable connection problem in my living room, and eventually found the wifi signal of my AV transmitter had jammed the signal of my cameras. Usually I can expect a stable connection for around 50 feet in straightline distance.

Over last 6 years since my 1st wifi capable Panny camera, I can never establish wifi connection to my home computer through the router. Too difficult for me. Give it up longtime ago.

jlina said:

thank you so much for all the good advice we've learned to get some depth in our photos but now it's time to learn to really work that background! I am of the opinion, and I think you are too that the background should add something to the photo even if it's just a washed out color field.

Click to expand...

jlina said:

J

--
jlina

Click to expand...

--
Albert
** Please feel free to download the original image I posted here and edit it as you like **

Hi Albert, yes it's a very fickle app! I did get my new Samsung Galaxy s6 lite to connect and eventually my phone also connected even though it was darn certain I was on an unsecure Network. I'm assuming I could also use Bluetooth if needs be. I don't know about my old Galaxy tablets but did update one just the other day. There are several ways to do it including putting the q code box onto the device camera, I was particularly unhappy with it connected to my Wi-Fi because it showed the router password every time I turn the camera on. it still shows the router information but not the password now that I have disabled it and reset it in the camera. the jumble of ways you can do it is probably where a lot of the confusion lies, however I found success by remembering to actually turn the Wi-Fi off on both the tablet and the phone and then as a Wi-Fi connection option it showed fz300 and I did a direct connection from there by clicking on the fz300 instead of the Wi-Fi. however I am certain that when I first got the new tablet it would not show me the fz300 as an option.

I can't code but computers are kind of my thing which is why it was so funny that I couldn't do the camera given that basically it's a computer but it is heavily influenced by light in a way that a computer isn't LOL. So I got it for now and I hope it will stay that way one day when I'm out with the camera I will test the Bluetooth connection as well. There is another thread where someone is having a very hard time connecting their gx85 I think. But that is to a computer and that is for me to deal with another day, honestly with the app being so fickle I just as soon use my SD card to upload photos to the computer.

Glad to know that this one time it's not operator error! Thanks and have a great day!

Oh and two more steps I took in the beginning I completely uninstalled the Panasonic app from the devices and cleared the camera Wi-Fi. I don't have the camera in front of me but I think that was in the settings not under the Wi-Fi connection. And it was weird that it still pulled up my router as an option afterwards. Also, I do remember that when I put the Panasonic app onto the new device it gave me some kind of warning about this setting will be remembered. So once I had put the device app back on and had the camera on wireless with new connection I pulled the top of the phone down and turned off the Wi-Fi that was connected to the tablet and the phone. At that point I saw an option for the fz300 and I clicked that to connect. However the phone did not want to do it and it just kept automatically reconnecting to the home Wi-Fi. After about 10 minutes and me repeatedly overriding the warning that it was an unsecured Network, for some reason it did connect so I assume that connection is now set again on the phone. For a long time I just used it with Bluetooth and taking a picture of the QR code box and then one day that just quit working. Hope that may help you some with your devices. My old Samsung Galaxy 10A did do an update this week but I'm not sure about the chrome version. They are so old from 2016 that I'm just constantly in awe that they still work!

I thought I just posted this but I am not seeing it so apologize if this is a double post. Are you going into your Google play store and checking your chrome app? When I do that it shows chrome updated as of December the 7th 2020. I noticed that sometimes the apps just quit updating particularly on my phone if the Wi-Fi gets turned off accidentally. so I will go to the Google play store and check updates from there and if necessary I will allow them from there. That might help but I think the real key was uninstalling and reinstalling the app although it did not ask me for my password again from Panasonic which was kind of annoying. I also turn the Wi-Fi password to off on the camera. If I turn it back to on it will display my router password again. I will probably do a factory reset on the camera because of that at some point. But if I lose the camera they're unlikely to know where I live anyway. Oh well a problem for another day!

--
jlina

jlina said:

We are going to have a gentleman's disagreement about the complexity of the camera lol; yes it's more difficult, but that only adds to its appeal.

Click to expand...

..



Glad to hear you're up to the challenge!

The FZ300 is more complex to use versus your ZS15 camera.

The FZ80 camera, on the other hand, is more similar to your ZS15.

I still recommend for you to get the FZ80, especially for it's longer zoom.





..

jlina said:

When I'm not reframing half my roof; possibly suing said roofers and dealing with "ABS inop" light on my car - ergo no brakes,

Click to expand...

..



Sorry to hear about the troubles.

But glad to hear (from another post),

that your roof is not leaking, which is good.



..

jlina said:

I'll read some manuals. hahaha....but honestly you guys are much better than a manual.

Click to expand...

..

Reading books on photography,

and watching videos on photography,

cannot be replaced by reading the forums.

In my opinion, forums can provide "easter eggs",

and "secret sauces" that may not be found in books.

So essentially, forums can fill in the gaps from the books.







..

jlina said:

So...THIS is difficult. Leaf through the center hole in the lamp through the window! But then, it's doable so it's only sort of difficult. I have no idea about the complexity. But it's also fun and rewarding


WOW look at the leaf dead center


my first double sun spot so swampy looking

Click to expand...

..



Both pictures are fantastic!







Cheers!



--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
*** Trash-talker won't rule us ***

Thanks John! I think both pictures could be improved but they're a great start. I realized that I think there was a misconception that I was here to learn quote photography," but honestly all I ever wanted to do was focus the camera. it has been a wonderful experience to learn so many variables I'm fixing to post about the possibilities opened up by the filter affects as well. Having a complex camera is a bit difficult to begin with and I think the advice to put the focus in the center and use it as a film camera I wish I could remember who said that was the best thing I could have done. After that it was all just a matter of listening to y'all and tweaking the settings.

Well the roofers are giving me $500 back and redoing the roof. LOL I'm still not sure it's worth it. Would have been nice to just have it done right the first time!

Hi Nick! I can't find them quickly but I wanted to thank you for posting the beautiful flower shots. I don't know for some reason your work is just so inspirational to me. I'm also wanted to say that I did a quick Google on the filter low key and the results there was only one of them it said it changed the hue and the contrast to a minus so my eyes were spot on! I agree that all the filters could use a comparison photo but I could use that filter low key to have a slightly minus exposure and leave the EV meter alone as far as I can tell.

been a back to business day around here dealing with the roofers etc but I'll get back to this great hobby soon, hope you're having an excellent day!

jlina said:

Thanks John! I think both pictures could be improved but they're a great start. I realized that I think there was a misconception that I was here to learn quote photography," but honestly all I ever wanted to do was focus the camera. it has been a wonderful experience to learn so many variables I'm fixing to post about the possibilities opened up by the filter affects as well. Having a complex camera is a bit difficult to begin with and I think the advice to put the focus in the center and use it as a film camera I wish I could remember who said that was the best thing I could have done. After that it was all just a matter of listening to y'all and tweaking the settings.

Click to expand...

..

If can get to 90% of what you want when out-of-the-camera,

and do the finishing touches using softwares post processing,

then I think you'll be on the right path of a successful workflow.

..

jlina said:

Well the roofers are giving me $500 back and redoing the roof. LOL I'm still not sure it's worth it. Would have been nice to just have it done right the first time!

Click to expand...

..

I'm glad the roofers are doing the right thing for you.

But you're right, they should've "done right" the first time.

..

Cheers!

--
Cheers, John
(Feel free to download my pictures)
*** No response = ignore list ***
*** Trash-talker won't rule us ***

jlina said:

Hi Nick! I can't find them quickly but I wanted to thank you for posting the beautiful flower shots.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

jlina said:

I don't know for some reason your work is just so inspirational to me. I'm also wanted to say that I did a quick Google on the filter low key and the results there was only one of them it said it changed the hue and the contrast to a minus so my eyes were spot on!

Click to expand...

Nit picking follows. Sorry.

As far as colours go, I think you can turn down the lightness and you can turn down the saturation, but you can't turn down the hue. You can move in any direction on a colour wheel like the one below to change the hue. But there is no direction which is "less" (or "more").

jlina said:

I agree that all the filters could use a comparison photo but I could use that filter low key to have a slightly minus exposure and leave the EV meter alone as far as I can tell.

been a back to business day around here dealing with the roofers etc but I'll get back to this great hobby soon, hope you're having an excellent day!

Click to expand...

Good luck with the roofers.

--
Nick
Summary of photo activity and output since 2007 https://fliesandflowers.blogspot.com/2019/01/when-i-retired-in-2006-i-had-it-in-mind.html
Flickr image collections http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/

jlina said:

I thought I just posted this but I am not seeing it so apologize if this is a double post. Are you going into your Google play store and checking your chrome app? When I do that it shows chrome updated as of December the 7th 2020.

Click to expand...

Tried, reset Chrome for a new installation (update), did not work. In Play Store, clicked on the update tab, some checking was seemed to have started, then stopped a few minutes later. No downloading, no installation. Every time when I access Chrome, just received an update notification.

Chrome might be the only App behaves in such strange manner. Also is only happened on my new Samsung phone (I used to use ASUS Zenfone because Hwawei etc PRC phones which might have unsure future, the Taiwanese ASUS phone are equally powerful as other popular brands on the market, but at a much lower cost).

jlina said:

I noticed that sometimes the apps just quit updating particularly on my phone if the Wi-Fi gets turned off accidentally.

Click to expand...

I used 4G data to do updating. The home wifi is now mostly reserved for the Android movie box, which IMHO not secured, helping us to spend our time through the Covid 19 home staying time.

After removed a Wireless AV transmitter (used to transmit cable TV program from the modem on one side of the room to the TV on another side) from my living room, I have a very stable connection between phone and cameras.

jlina said:

so I will go to the Google play store and check updates from there and if necessary I will allow them from there. That might help but I think the real key was uninstalling and reinstalling the app although it did not ask me for my password again from Panasonic which was kind of annoying.

Click to expand...

Might because I never able to establish a connection between my cams and home router, I don't have this problem.

Since the connection, if established, is for a wireless transfer of files from cam to computer, and it is limited to jpg only, I decided not to waste time on this. Now, USB card reader or USB cable connection basically serve me well .

jlina said:

I also turn the Wi-Fi password to off on the camera. If I turn it back to on it will display my router password again. I will probably do a factory reset on the camera because of that at some point. But if I lose the camera they're unlikely to know where I live anyway. Oh well a problem for another day!

--
jlina

Click to expand...

--
Albert
** Please feel free to download the original image I posted here and edit it as you like **

Actually after we spoke last night that actually got me a little bit nervous. The camera is just playing my router password on it unsecure Network, yeah nope. If your router gets hacked someone can see every Bank you go to not the actual specific detail but which banks you use. I was honestly so annoyed I thought about just calling AT&t for a new router but I have decided I will factory reset the camera. Much better to go old school on this I agree! For one thing Wi-Fi tears through the batteries and even though I got two backup batteries they're not named brand so if I ever use the Wi-Fi for any extended period of time I'll make sure one of those batteries are inside the camera.

I'm glad you realized it some things are just not worth the waste of time on LOL and have a system that works for you, especially considering the uploads you do.

I used to have a Huawai phone it was a great phone. I understand the tensions between the countries but I frankly think it is ridiculous that we cannot have a Chinese made phone in America all it is done is limit the market and drive prices way up. Totally off topic here but if Russia can happen America's security systems I'm not too worried about what the Chinese will do with my cell phone, tick tock is much more of a concern LOL! I did get a Motorola E4 plus which is now going on two or three years old and still holds a charge for two days for me. It seems like it's the cheapest option going forward Motorola.

Take care of my friend! Stay safe stay well!

Ha! I am vindicated LOL the roofers are going to have to redo the whole roof. It wasn't worth it though.

And by the way you are correct! Interesting article linked below. it changes the hue it does not lower it or in any way adjust it. I think that this is an area of the camera that is seldom explored and holds a lot of potential.

Thanks Nick have a great day!

Hi John! Having done a factory reset on the camera to get the Wi-Fi router password off of it I have had to go redo all the settings. It is indeed extremely complicated there are plenty of things I have no idea what they are still. But about the fz-80 the reason I never followed through is because of how much I hated the zs70! I was of the impression that it was the zs70 upgraded and remember I shot for one day with the fs70 and hated it; returned it the very next day! But just in these recent test sessions with the fz300 the day the wind was blowing 20 to 30 mph gusts at the end of my street convinced me that I really needed the weather sealing. And I haven't even ventured near to a beach yet

Regarding the previous discussion regarding the NR etc settings I am going to post with graham recommends below this is an interesting article however he only uses nr minus two. I'm still undecided about what the settings on those parameters should be.




Settings

Thanks!

Jacqueline



--
jlina

Hey Albert! I had to actually read part of the manual after I factory reset the camera. As I was looking for how to change the monitor luminous setting, I found a setting that says EV composure reset. It is in the basic menu. apparently if you turn that on it will reset the EV composure dial to zero whenever you turn the camera off. So I did we'll see! That will make it a lot easier to follow your recommendation page 68 ish of the basic manual I think.

Then I read this fairly hilarious thread from back in 2016 here on the forum where someone said that when you're asking for NR and contrast and sharpness settings you're looking for a magical incarnation to fix your poor size sensor LOL. And indeed there are many many opinions about what those settings should be but I thought you once told me not to use NR? Does that mean put it on minus four or leave it at zero in your opinion?

well now that I've wasted an hour on that I guess I'll go spend some happy time with the Kindle novel!

Thank you!




Ec reset

--
jlina