Focus Fine Tune .. not needed so far? Is this unusual?

Focus Fine Tune .. not needed so far?

I have been reading about people fine tuning their bodies for various lenses and wondering why I don't feel the need so far?

I have a D800

Nikon 20mm f2.8

Nikon 50mm f1.8

Nikon 85mm f1.4

Sigma 28-70mm f2.8

Nikon 80-400mm f4.5-5.6 AFD

They all seem to focus right on the nail so I haven't had to fine tune at all.

Is this unusual?

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212858

Mark_A said:

Focus Fine Tune .. not needed so far?

Click to expand...

Mark, your experience mirrors mine. I have a D750 (lovely camera) and checked all my lenses but did not need to alter anything. I rarely shoot wide open so maybe that is the explanation? Maybe my eyes are too old to see any difference.

David Lal said:

Mark_A said:

Focus Fine Tune .. not needed so far?

Click to expand...

Mark, your experience mirrors mine. I have a D750 (lovely camera) and checked all my lenses but did not need to alter anything. I rarely shoot wide open so maybe that is the explanation? Maybe my eyes are too old to see any difference.

Click to expand...

Aha, thanks David. I do actually quite often shoot wide open but still focus seems accurate with my lenses.

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..

Mark_A said:

Focus Fine Tune .. not needed so far?

I have been reading about people fine tuning their bodies for various lenses and wondering why I don't feel the need so far?

Is this unusual?

Click to expand...

I'd say it's more usual than you may think

AF Fine Tune has been a hot topic on forums for quite a while, led (IMO) by those for whom the desire to coax the last bit of sharpness from their equipment is more important than making attractive, well-composed images.

I've been shooting f/2.8 zooms wide open (and fast primes at around f/2) for many years, and have only once had a lens that was obviously in need of tuning.

Bottom line - if you're happy with the results you're getting, that's what matters.

briantilley said:

I'd say it's more usual than you may think

AF Fine Tune has been a hot topic on forums for quite a while, led (IMO) by those for whom the desire to coax the last bit of sharpness from their equipment is more important than making attractive, well-composed images.

I've been shooting f/2.8 zooms wide open (and fast primes at around f/2) for many years, and have only once had a lens that was obviously in need of tuning.

Bottom line - if you're happy with the results you're getting, that's what matters.

Click to expand...

Hi Brian, thanks for your response.

I did wonder if I was missing something but having received a lens last week and extensively testing it to decide that it works perfectly and deciding that it did I thought I wondered if this was unusual.

I am indeed happy with the results I am getting.

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..

Mark_A said:

Focus Fine Tune .. not needed so far?

I have been reading about people fine tuning their bodies for various lenses and wondering why I don't feel the need so far?

Click to expand...

I do not need fine tune with any of my over 20 Nikon Lenses - and 4 different bodies.

My system is to find an AF subject where AF should work well (a detail often overlooked) and to combine a high resolution chart as part of my testing procedure.

I get the highest resolution with nil fine tune (with over 20 lenses and 4 bodies) - so I am satisfied my equipment does not need fine tune.

Digressing slightly, Nikon says in their current lens brochure, all lenses are checked for focus accuracy as part of testing after assembly.

Pre fine tune I had 2 lenses damaged during air transits where fine tune post damage could have got me out of gaol.

--
Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than anything else.

Mark_A said:

Focus Fine Tune .. not needed so far?

I have been reading about people fine tuning their bodies for various lenses and wondering why I don't feel the need so far?

I have a D800

Nikon 20mm f2.8

Nikon 50mm f1.8

Nikon 85mm f1.4

Sigma 28-70mm f2.8

Nikon 80-400mm f4.5-5.6 AFD

They all seem to focus right on the nail so I haven't had to fine tune at all.

Is this unusual?

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212858

Click to expand...

MA

Most of my lenses . . . not all . . . but most . . . do require AFFT.

You are more likely to need AFFT with longer lenses shot wide open where the depth of field is very minimal and therefore accurate focus is required.

Wider lenses tend to not require as critical fine tuning.

Take your 85mm f/1.4 and set it up on your D800 on a tripod with a good focus target , aperture at f/1.4, good lighting, low ISO, and take some test shots . . . AFFT on at . . . -6 . . . -3 . . . 0 . . . +3 . . . +6 . . . AFFT off.

See what results you get . . . if you get consistently better results at any of the + or - settings then your lens/body combo will likely benefit from further AFFT calibration.

Good luck with it!

Best,

V G

Van Griff said:

MA

Most of my lenses . . . not all . . . but most . . . do require AFFT.

You are more likely to need AFFT with longer lenses shot wide open where the depth of field is very minimal and therefore accurate focus is required.

Wider lenses tend to not require as critical fine tuning.

Take your 85mm f/1.4 and set it up on your D800 on a tripod with a good focus target , aperture at f/1.4, good lighting, low ISO, and take some test shots . . . AFFT on at . . . -6 . . . -3 . . . 0 . . . +3 . . . +6 . . . AFFT off.

See what results you get . . . if you get consistently better results at any of the + or - settings then your lens/body combo will likely benefit from further AFFT calibration.

Good luck with it!

Click to expand...

Hi V G

Is that how you test your lenses for focus adjust?

So far with the 85 1.4, which is a recent addition to my collection, I have shot a brick wall, at f1.4 - 2.8 - 4 - 8 - 16 and all results were sharp.

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..

Leonard Shepherd said:

I do not need fine tune with any of my over 20 Nikon Lenses - and 4 different bodies.

My system is to find an AF subject where AF should work well (a detail often overlooked) and to combine a high resolution chart as part of my testing procedure.

I get the highest resolution with nil fine tune (with over 20 lenses and 4 bodies) - so I am satisfied my equipment does not need fine tune.

Click to expand...

Hi Leonard, you say a "a high resolution chart" what is involved with that?

Leonard Shepherd said:

Digressing slightly, Nikon says in their current lens brochure, all lenses are checked for focus accuracy as part of testing after assembly.

Click to expand...

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..

Mark_A said:

Van Griff said:

MA

Most of my lenses . . . not all . . . but most . . . do require AFFT.

You are more likely to need AFFT with longer lenses shot wide open where the depth of field is very minimal and therefore accurate focus is required.

Wider lenses tend to not require as critical fine tuning.

Take your 85mm f/1.4 and set it up on your D800 on a tripod with a good focus target , aperture at f/1.4, good lighting, low ISO, and take some test shots . . . AFFT on at . . . -6 . . . -3 . . . 0 . . . +3 . . . +6 . . . AFFT off.

See what results you get . . . if you get consistently better results at any of the + or - settings then your lens/body combo will likely benefit from further AFFT calibration.

Good luck with it!

Click to expand...

Hi V G

Click to expand...

MA

Mark_A said:

Is that how you test your lenses for focus adjust?

Click to expand...

That is how I would do an initial check to see if further calibration required.

Mark_A said:

So far with the 85 1.4, which is a recent addition to my collection, I have shot a brick wall, at f1.4 - 2.8 - 4 - 8 - 16 and all results were sharp.

Click to expand...

Seems odd that you are getting the same results at all settings . . . you should be getting varying results . . . are you sure you had the different AFFT settings engaged each time?

Did you just check negative settings . . . you should also be checking positive settings . . . unless you are seeing improvement in negative settings . . . but you are saying the results are all the same which does not make sense.

Do a test shot at zero then at -20 and then at +20 . . . if you don't get variance then you are probably not engaging the AFFT properly.

Best,

V G

Mark_A said:

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212858

Click to expand...

Van Griff said:

MA

Van Griff said:

Is that how you test your lenses for focus adjust?

Click to expand...

That is how I would do an initial check to see if further calibration required.

Van Griff said:

So far with the 85 1.4, which is a recent addition to my collection, I have shot a brick wall, at f1.4 - 2.8 - 4 - 8 - 16 and all results were sharp.

Click to expand...

Seems odd that you are getting the same results at all settings . . . you should be getting varying results . . . are you sure you had the different AFFT settings engaged each time?

Click to expand...

No I don't think you understand. I didn't touch the AFFT settings at all. I just shot the wall at a variety of fstop settings and checked the sharpness of the results in my computer.

When I observed that they were all sharp and nicely detailed, I decided the lens was a good one.

Van Griff said:

Did you just check negative settings . . . you should also be checking positive settings . . . unless you are seeing improvement in negative settings . . . but you are saying the results are all the same which does not make sense.

Do a test shot at zero then at -20 and then at +20 . . . if you don't get variance then you are probably not engaging the AFFT properly.

Click to expand...

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..

Mark_A said:

Van Griff said:

MA

Most of my lenses . . . not all . . . but most . . . do require AFFT.

You are more likely to need AFFT with longer lenses shot wide open where the depth of field is very minimal and therefore accurate focus is required.

Wider lenses tend to not require as critical fine tuning.

Take your 85mm f/1.4 and set it up on your D800 on a tripod with a good focus target , aperture at f/1.4, good lighting, low ISO, and take some test shots . . . AFFT on at . . . -6 . . . -3 . . . 0 . . . +3 . . . +6 . . . AFFT off.

See what results you get . . . if you get consistently better results at any of the + or - settings then your lens/body combo will likely benefit from further AFFT calibration.

Good luck with it!

Click to expand...

Hi V G

Is that how you test your lenses for focus adjust?

So far with the 85 1.4, which is a recent addition to my collection, I have shot a brick wall, at f1.4 - 2.8 - 4 - 8 - 16 and all results were sharp.

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212858

Click to expand...

MA

Sorry . . . I think I misread your quote in my previous post.

Now I am reading that you are saying you have tested at all apertures from f/1.4 to f/16.

Test at f/1.4 . . . wide open where you have the narrowest depth of field and accurate focus is most critical.

As I previously stated do AFFT tests at -6 -3 0 +3 +6 and with AFFT off.

If you are not getting any improved results with the + or - settings then it would appear AFFT is not required.

If you are getting improved results then further testing and calibration will probably result in improved results.

Best,

V G

Mark_A said:

Van Griff said:

MA

Mark_A said:

Is that how you test your lenses for focus adjust?

Click to expand...

That is how I would do an initial check to see if further calibration required.

Mark_A said:

So far with the 85 1.4, which is a recent addition to my collection, I have shot a brick wall, at f1.4 - 2.8 - 4 - 8 - 16 and all results were sharp.

Click to expand...

Seems odd that you are getting the same results at all settings . . . you should be getting varying results . . . are you sure you had the different AFFT settings engaged each time?

Click to expand...

No I don't think you understand. I didn't touch the AFFT settings at all. I just shot the wall at a variety of fstop settings and checked the sharpness of the results in my computer.

Click to expand...

Correct . . . I misunderstood initially . . . now I understand.

But what you are doing is checking your results from different apertures . . . you are not checking results from different AFFT settings.

Testing AFFT is to determine if you can improve your focus within a particular aperture . . . usually wide open is the best aperture to test at . . . you want to see if you can improve your focus accuracy within that particular aperture . . . and it can be a very minimal improvement and it may be so minimal that you feel it does not warrant the adjustment . . . others feel that they want to get the maximum optimum calibration and if they can get best results at say an AFFT setting of -5 then that is what they want.

If you are shooting head and shoulder portraits with your 85 then critical focus on the nearest eye is imperative and you may find that an AFFT adjustment can make the difference between getting the iris of the eye in critical focus . . . or the eyelashes . . . or the eyebrow . . . it can be very frustrating to focus on the eye and then get critical sharpness on the eyebrow and not the eye.

If you are shooting stopped down at say f/5.6 then AFFT is not as critical . . . but if shooting wide open then critical AFFT may be required.

Mark_A said:

When I observed that they were all sharp and nicely detailed, I decided the lens was a good one.

Mark_A said:

Did you just check negative settings . . . you should also be checking positive settings . . . unless you are seeing improvement in negative settings . . . but you are saying the results are all the same which does not make sense.

Do a test shot at zero then at -20 and then at +20 . . . if you don't get variance then you are probably not engaging the AFFT properly.

Click to expand...

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212858

Click to expand...

Best,

V G

Van Griff said:

Mark_A said:

No I don't think you understand. I didn't touch the AFFT settings at all. I just shot the wall at a variety of fstop settings and checked the sharpness of the results in my computer.

Click to expand...

Correct . . . I misunderstood initially . . . now I understand.

But what you are doing is checking your results from different apertures . . . you are not checking results from different AFFT settings.

Testing AFFT is to determine if you can improve your focus within a particular aperture . . . usually wide open is the best aperture to test at . . . you want to see if you can improve your focus accuracy within that particular aperture . . . and it can be a very minimal improvement and it may be so minimal that you feel it does not warrant the adjustment . . . others feel that they want to get the maximum optimum calibration and if they can get best results at say an AFFT setting of -5 then that is what they want.

If you are shooting head and shoulder portraits with your 85 then critical focus on the nearest eye is imperative and you may find that an AFFT adjustment can make the difference between getting the iris of the eye in critical focus . . . or the eyelashes . . . or the eyebrow . . . it can be very frustrating to focus on the eye and then get critical sharpness on the eyebrow and not the eye.

Click to expand...

Oh well, I might give it a try perhaps next week.

At the moment I have shot the wall at f1.4 (the f1.4 85mm is the recent addition to my lenses) and I have done a lot of test shots and it seems focus is faithful, wide open exactly on the spot my focus is.

In the coming days I will have the chance to shoot some people with it and will watch the details - I usually do focus on the nearest eye.

Van Griff said:

If you are shooting stopped down at say f/5.6 then AFFT is not as critical . . . but if shooting wide open then critical AFFT may be required.

Click to expand...

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..

Mark_A said:

Van Griff said:

Mark_A said:

No I don't think you understand. I didn't touch the AFFT settings at all. I just shot the wall at a variety of fstop settings and checked the sharpness of the results in my computer.

Click to expand...

Correct . . . I misunderstood initially . . . now I understand.

But what you are doing is checking your results from different apertures . . . you are not checking results from different AFFT settings.

Testing AFFT is to determine if you can improve your focus within a particular aperture . . . usually wide open is the best aperture to test at . . . you want to see if you can improve your focus accuracy within that particular aperture . . . and it can be a very minimal improvement and it may be so minimal that you feel it does not warrant the adjustment . . . others feel that they want to get the maximum optimum calibration and if they can get best results at say an AFFT setting of -5 then that is what they want.

If you are shooting head and shoulder portraits with your 85 then critical focus on the nearest eye is imperative and you may find that an AFFT adjustment can make the difference between getting the iris of the eye in critical focus . . . or the eyelashes . . . or the eyebrow . . . it can be very frustrating to focus on the eye and then get critical sharpness on the eyebrow and not the eye.

Click to expand...

Oh well, I might give it a try perhaps next week.

Click to expand...

Good plan.

Mark_A said:

At the moment I have shot the wall at f1.4 (the f1.4 85mm is the recent addition to my lenses) and I have done a lot of test shots and it seems focus is faithful, wide open exactly on the spot my focus is.

Click to expand...

With all due respect a brick wall is not necessarily the best testing target . . . there will be some irregularity in the surface of the wall and probably minor varying depth.

Simply taping a newspaper with good black and white print definition on a wall may be adequate as a test target.

Another method I use is to use the black and white text or bar chart on the edge of a cereal box . . . perhaps have 5 boxes side by side but staggered say 1/4 or 1/2 inch each . . . focus on the middle box and see the relative sharpness of the different boxes.

Make sure your focus sensor does not land on more than one box . . . move the boxes apart enough so that it doesn't.

Mark_A said:

In the coming days I will have the chance to shoot some people with it and will watch the details - I usually do focus on the nearest eye.

Click to expand...

That is where focus becomes critical to get optimum results.

Mark_A said:

Mark_A said:

If you are shooting stopped down at say f/5.6 then AFFT is not as critical . . . but if shooting wide open then critical AFFT may be required.

Click to expand...

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212858

Click to expand...

Good luck with it!

Best,

V G

Mark_A said:

Van Griff said:

Mark_A said:

No I don't think you understand. I didn't touch the AFFT settings at all. I just shot the wall at a variety of fstop settings and checked the sharpness of the results in my computer.

Click to expand...

Correct . . . I misunderstood initially . . . now I understand.

But what you are doing is checking your results from different apertures . . . you are not checking results from different AFFT settings.

Testing AFFT is to determine if you can improve your focus within a particular aperture . . . usually wide open is the best aperture to test at . . . you want to see if you can improve your focus accuracy within that particular aperture . . . and it can be a very minimal improvement and it may be so minimal that you feel it does not warrant the adjustment . . . others feel that they want to get the maximum optimum calibration and if they can get best results at say an AFFT setting of -5 then that is what they want.

If you are shooting head and shoulder portraits with your 85 then critical focus on the nearest eye is imperative and you may find that an AFFT adjustment can make the difference between getting the iris of the eye in critical focus . . . or the eyelashes . . . or the eyebrow . . . it can be very frustrating to focus on the eye and then get critical sharpness on the eyebrow and not the eye.

Click to expand...

Oh well, I might give it a try perhaps next week.

At the moment I have shot the wall at f1.4 (the f1.4 85mm is the recent addition to my lenses) and I have done a lot of test shots and it seems focus is faithful, wide open exactly on the spot my focus is.

Click to expand...

Brick walls are better used to assess field curvature and distortion (assuming the wall is flat, the bricks are straight, and you're able to successfully position the sensor parallel to it), not subtle fine tuning effects.

All fine tuning does is very slightly shift your plane of focus forward or backward.

So instead of a wall, consider shooting a stationary & small 3 dimensional object with a clearly identifiable high-contrast target to focus on instead of just a brick wall. You'll see the effects of fine tuning are way more obvious when you can make out the placement of the plane of focus within each shot. A wall doesn't give you that opportunity.

Of course, that doesn't mean you actually need to do any of this. If you're happy with your lenses as they are, more power to you!

Mark_A said:

In the coming days I will have the chance to shoot some people with it and will watch the details - I usually do focus on the nearest eye.

Mark_A said:

If you are shooting stopped down at say f/5.6 then AFFT is not as critical . . . but if shooting wide open then critical AFFT may be required.

Click to expand...

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212858

Click to expand...

Brian Kimball said:

Mark_A said:

Oh well, I might give it a try perhaps next week.

At the moment I have shot the wall at f1.4 (the f1.4 85mm is the recent addition to my lenses) and I have done a lot of test shots and it seems focus is faithful, wide open exactly on the spot my focus is.

Click to expand...

Brick walls are better used to assess field curvature and distortion (assuming the wall is flat, the bricks are straight, and you're able to successfully position the sensor parallel to it), not subtle fine tuning effects.

All fine tuning does is very slightly shift your plane of focus forward or backward.

So instead of a wall, consider shooting a stationary & small 3 dimensional object with a clearly identifiable high-contrast target to focus on instead of just a brick wall. You'll see the effects of fine tuning are way more obvious when you can make out the placement of the plane of focus within each shot. A wall doesn't give you that opportunity.

Of course, that doesn't mean you actually need to do any of this. If you're happy with your lenses as they are, more power to you!

Click to expand...

Hi Brian,

At the moment from all my test photos (including but not limited to the wall) I am pretty confident it is focussing wide open exactly where I put the focus spot.

But the dof at 1.4 is very narrow so I believe f2 might be good for shooting head and shoulders, Perhaps 1.4 when shooting full body at a greater distance to the subject.

This thread was intended to say - hey another lens and no need for focus adjust is that usual? Because I do think this lens is focussing on the nail.

Now I might do the test next week, can't do any harm I suppose.

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..

Van Griff said:

Mark_A said:

Van Griff said:

Mark_A said:

No I don't think you understand. I didn't touch the AFFT settings at all. I just shot the wall at a variety of fstop settings and checked the sharpness of the results in my computer.

Click to expand...

Correct . . . I misunderstood initially . . . now I understand.

But what you are doing is checking your results from different apertures . . . you are not checking results from different AFFT settings.

Testing AFFT is to determine if you can improve your focus within a particular aperture . . . usually wide open is the best aperture to test at . . . you want to see if you can improve your focus accuracy within that particular aperture . . . and it can be a very minimal improvement and it may be so minimal that you feel it does not warrant the adjustment . . . others feel that they want to get the maximum optimum calibration and if they can get best results at say an AFFT setting of -5 then that is what they want.

If you are shooting head and shoulder portraits with your 85 then critical focus on the nearest eye is imperative and you may find that an AFFT adjustment can make the difference between getting the iris of the eye in critical focus . . . or the eyelashes . . . or the eyebrow . . . it can be very frustrating to focus on the eye and then get critical sharpness on the eyebrow and not the eye.

Click to expand...

Oh well, I might give it a try perhaps next week.

Click to expand...

Good plan.

Van Griff said:

At the moment I have shot the wall at f1.4 (the f1.4 85mm is the recent addition to my lenses) and I have done a lot of test shots and it seems focus is faithful, wide open exactly on the spot my focus is.

Click to expand...

With all due respect a brick wall is not necessarily the best testing target . . . there will be some irregularity in the surface of the wall and probably minor varying depth.

Simply taping a newspaper with good black and white print definition on a wall may be adequate as a test target.

Another method I use is to use the black and white text or bar chart on the edge of a cereal box . . . perhaps have 5 boxes side by side but staggered say 1/4 or 1/2 inch each . . . focus on the middle box and see the relative sharpness of the different boxes.

Make sure your focus sensor does not land on more than one box . . . move the boxes apart enough so that it doesn't.

Van Griff said:

In the coming days I will have the chance to shoot some people with it and will watch the details - I usually do focus on the nearest eye.

Click to expand...

That is where focus becomes critical to get optimum results.

Van Griff said:

Van Griff said:

If you are shooting stopped down at say f/5.6 then AFFT is not as critical . . . but if shooting wide open then critical AFFT may be required.

Click to expand...

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212858

Click to expand...

Good luck with it!

Best,

V G

Click to expand...

MA

Here's a sample sort of displaying the staggered testing format with my 85 1.4 on my D700 . . . the figurines were about 1/2" apart and the image was shot wide open . . . you can see the huge difference in focus depth of field at the wide open aperture . . .

Best viewed at Gallery Page Large or Original.


D700 + 85mm f/1.4 shot at f/1.4

Best,

V G

Mark,

My experience is like yours, so I don't think it's at all unusual not on need to fine tune your lenses. I have all good quality Nikon lenses. I occasionally think there's a focus problem, but when I properly test the lens on a high contrast focus target using a tripod, I discover than the problem is me! A lot of people mess around with fine tuning focus when, in truth, they need to fine tune their technique. Shooting primes wide open requires superb technique. Nikon has better technique in manufacturing lenses than I do in shooting sometimes! If you're getting great results, leave things alone. If results are questionable, question technique first. Change the AF Fine Tune as a last resort.

Van Griff said:

MA

Here's a sample sort of displaying the staggered testing format with my 85 1.4 on my D700 . . . the figurines were about 1/2" apart and the image was shot wide open . . . you can see the huge difference in focus depth of field at the wide open aperture . . .

Best viewed at Gallery Page Large or Original.


D700 + 85mm f/1.4 shot at f/1.4

Click to expand...

Hi V G,

Oh I am pretty sure from my sample photos my lens/body would be fine on a test like that, as I say it focusses exactly where I put the focus point. 1/2" is too large a gap for this one but I might try something similar with a reduced distance between the items. Or a newspaper at an angle as I think you suggested earlier.

Mark_A
.
A thread of photos from SmartPhones ..