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Should Panasonic revitalize the GF line?
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MrALLCAPS
Senior Member
Yes Panasonic threw everything they had at it from the design locker and made It a real hard act to follow - I nearly like it as much as a GM5
Years have not wearied the GX7 - I still love it to death - the GX85 in my book was not really an upgrade, but I like it nevertheless, and the GX9 was not quite a G9 but was a more obvious upgrade from the GX7 except for the mess the retro mechanical EV dial made of the top plate ergonomics. Meanwhile when I grab one of the “terrible” trio I don’t worry which one I pick - they are all graciously good cameras and “upgrading” did not leave me out of love for the almost perfectly conceived GX7. A classic if ever one was made.
alcelc
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GX85 is a major upgrade from GX7 (which is also a major upgrade from GX1) to me.Yes Panasonic threw everything they had at it from the design locker and made It a real hard act to follow - I nearly like it as much as a GM5
Years have not wearied the GX7 - I still love it to death - the GX85 in my book was not really an upgrade,
Major improvement on IBIS, DUAL IS, 4K video and 4K Photos, 3 more bracketing mode, post focus, new m-shutter, removal of AA filter, improved jpg engine for 1 more stop of usable higher ISO, zebra supports... I jumped onto GX85 when released and it is the first I ever do on buying camera.
Indeed IMHO the upgrade on GX9 from GX85 is more incremental such that I picked G85 for the time being, and am waiting for GX7 mk-IV.
Does that mean you are keeping her?
pannumon
Senior Member
Normally I press down for metering mode. Where is the display button, exactly?
The sensor is basically the same 12Mp, processing is a bit more advanced.
GF2 may be a bit more advanced in terms of technology, but it's far less advanced in terms of ergonomics. I have owned a GF2 for a very short moment (and GF1 of course).
I think the only reason they shrank the GF-series was because Sony NEX was even smaller, with a larger APS-C sensor. The engineers/designers at Panasonic seem to have free hands to develop excellent new products. But when the products are iterated, marketing people seem to have far too much power. The camera lines are inconsistent, they change constantly, and nobody knows what the target audience is (outside Japan).
Stop following trends, Panasonic, be the one that makes them!
I think 2 lines of M43 looks realistic in times of dwindling camera sales
The GHx video line can be dropped now, that the S1H exists or continued in the...
- Gx enthusiast line (G9). Big EVF, WR, excellent video.
- GXx amateur line (GX9). could be even smaller and combined with GF and GXxxx: very small, small, tiltable EVF.
6 million hectares I believe in all - mostly in rugged forested country - hence “only” 3,000 homes lost. Mainly lost in the relatively few more populated areas where the fires intruded - but there were some “bush” villages that were completely wiped out.Tom, the amount of nice { by our standards } dry days since lock down kicked in seems higher than normal though this may just be a jail window take on itThe fires this year were terrible shocking to see the scale of them on the news :-(
Major populated areas seem to have been protected by the huge effort of (mainly) voluntary fire fighter and by some very constant water-bombing. Much of the big new was the later part of the fire-storm in the southern part of NSW and Victoria as the fires started in the north part of NSW and Southern Queensland months earlier. The southern parts are generally more prone to bushfires than the more northern parts which are usually too wet to burn. None of this went a big distance inland more than about 150kms because it is the rugged eastern side of the Great Dividing Range that is most heavily forested. So the 6 million hectares is bad enough but it is even worse when we consider that this is much of the most highly naturally forested country.
Of course there was insufficient publicity to the northern fires and come Christmas holidays the city folk took their normal holiday break along many of the beautiful little places down the south coast in blissful happiness that the pre-existing fires would not get that far. Made for some good new stories of holidaymakers cut off from exit and stranded sheltering on the beach.
This was not one big fire but 80+ fires and many of them merged into mega-fires. It was just so hot and had been very dry for months - everywhere. Much of this was from dry-lightning strike and some farmers ignoring fire restrictions and doing a little private back-burning on their own account. Some (technically illegal) camp-fires may have got away and out of control.
Some dark talk about teams of arsonists working deep in the forested bush (getting that far in would have been an adventure in itself) but it seems that it was really natural causes compounded by some stupid behaviour.
Agreed - I had and still have an LC1 - which is much larger but could be considered an early prototype of the GX7. The look and feel is much the same although Panasonic had made a major reworking of the LC1 ergonomics for the better. Compared to the GX7 the LC1 feels like a big hollow box - some of the controls are just perfect but some others are not so good. But it was a really good attempt in its day. A pity that is lens was not in M4/3 mountI love the GX series, reminds me of the original L1. I just wish they stop messing with the name changes and call them what the Japanese call them, GX7's MkII, MkIII and hopefully a weather sealed MkIV.Yes Panasonic threw everything they had at it from the design locker and made It a real hard act to follow - I nearly like it as much as a GM5
Years have not wearied the GX7 - I still love it to death - the GX85 in my book was not really an upgrade, but I like it nevertheless, and the GX9 was not quite a G9 but was a more obvious upgrade from the GX7 except for the mess the retro mechanical EV dial made of the top plate ergonomics. Meanwhile when I grab one of the “terrible” trio I don’t worry which one I pick - they are all graciously good cameras and “upgrading” did not leave me out of love for the almost perfectly conceived GX7. A classic if ever one was made.
I also do believe that the GM5 was a derivative of the GX7 where the design brief was to make a camera as small as possible and any not absolutely essential features of a workable still image camera could be left out. Therefore we get a tiny quite workable camera that can do pretty well everything a still-shooting camera could be expected to do without the selling feature frills.
Kent Ekasak
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As far as I know, GF7-8-9-10 are by far the best selling lines in Japan and Asia.
GF for first timer and selfies generation.
GX85 and GX9 are for more serious photographer.
GF line needs to be revitalized to address more "selfie" and simple "Vlog" need, not serious professional needs.. GF10 cannot compete with M50 and similar selfies/Vlog camera from Sony and Fuji..
Yes it was an upgrade, butGX85 is a major upgrade from GX7 (which is also a major upgrade from GX1) to me.Yes Panasonic threw everything they had at it from the design locker and made It a real hard act to follow - I nearly like it as much as a GM5
Years have not wearied the GX7 - I still love it to death - the GX85 in my book was not really an upgrade,
I did not really need it that bad
As above
Not needed by me personally
Not needed by me personally
Good
Not needed by me personally
Furthermore whilst I did not really need/use the tilt evf I did miss the absence of the AF/MF switch - big mistake.
Other than that I did eventually buy the GX85 because it was reasonably priced for what it was - but in retrospect I could have easily have skipped that camera - not that I don’t like it but something like the GX9 was more to my liking - in fact if I knew that the GX9 was on the way I would have skipped buying the G9. However the G9 is still a cut above the GX9 in capability - it is a pity that he GX9 was a slightly dumbed down version of the G9.
No rush on my part and I still use and enjoy my GX7 Mk-I.
If there had been an (expensive) clip on evf for the GM1 that camera would have been priced out of sight and failed in the first month. If indeed it somehow managed to sell well enough to survive the price shock then the GM5 would never have arrived.
I am so very glad that Panasonic made the GM5 even though the GM1 was good. Here is a complete camera (GM5) and it stays compact even with the evf - which means that the evf can never be left behind and using large lenses is a physical reality that is otherwise much harder with clip on evf units which sit high above the body and make head support of the camera unit just that much more difficult than with an integrated evf.
Notwithstanding that a clip on evf does add proportionately more physical size to what is generally meant to be a compact camera body.
A lot does depend on which type of use the owner wishes to put their gear to - there is nothing wrong with other points of view - it is just that my personal experiences with clip on evf units have not been to my liking.
I am so very glad that Panasonic made the GM5 even though the GM1 was good. Here is a complete camera (GM5) and it stays compact even with the evf - which means that the evf can never be left behind and using large lenses is a physical reality that is otherwise much harder with clip on evf units which sit high above the body and make head support of the camera unit just that much more difficult than with an integrated evf.
Notwithstanding that a clip on evf does add proportionately more physical size to what is generally meant to be a compact camera body.
A lot does depend on which type of use the owner wishes to put their gear to - there is nothing wrong with other points of view - it is just that my personal experiences with clip on evf units have not been to my liking.
Yes but the GF7 was released annually by rote in a slightly made over condition - other models have had a longer shelf life and then had more major revisions.
The GF7 and successors has had the ring of something that can be sold straight into the consumer market at steps and stairs pricing. Several of them can be sold in the same shop and if a buyer wishes to argue the price then they can easily switched to a cheaper nearly as good earlier model. That way Panasonic does not have such an issue clearing old stocks and the retailer gets to buy older models at lower prices that still are easier to sell.
Not that the cameras are bad in any way - in some ways they have improvements that the GM series have not had. It would not suit me as I quite commonly use fairly large lenses on my GM5 camera bodies. Using evf with left hand supporting lens and right hand operating the body is as natural with a GM5 as it is with a “massive” G9.
Furthermore with a camera body regularly given an annual makeover missing two years of new model simply must mean that they have run out of makeovers and probably need to clear unsold stocks. They might be best rewarded in putting a 20mp sensor into the ageing GM5 design than in yet another GX850 makeover.
What style of lenses do you usually fit on your GX850? I use an Olympus 12-100/4.0 on a GM5 regularly and have been known to even use a Panasonic 200/2.8 on it without any real effort - it is just that for long sessions a G9 might be more comfortable and not that the GM5 is not up to it.
The GF7 and successors has had the ring of something that can be sold straight into the consumer market at steps and stairs pricing. Several of them can be sold in the same shop and if a buyer wishes to argue the price then they can easily switched to a cheaper nearly as good earlier model. That way Panasonic does not have such an issue clearing old stocks and the retailer gets to buy older models at lower prices that still are easier to sell.
Not that the cameras are bad in any way - in some ways they have improvements that the GM series have not had. It would not suit me as I quite commonly use fairly large lenses on my GM5 camera bodies. Using evf with left hand supporting lens and right hand operating the body is as natural with a GM5 as it is with a “massive” G9.
Furthermore with a camera body regularly given an annual makeover missing two years of new model simply must mean that they have run out of makeovers and probably need to clear unsold stocks. They might be best rewarded in putting a 20mp sensor into the ageing GM5 design than in yet another GX850 makeover.
What style of lenses do you usually fit on your GX850? I use an Olympus 12-100/4.0 on a GM5 regularly and have been known to even use a Panasonic 200/2.8 on it without any real effort - it is just that for long sessions a G9 might be more comfortable and not that the GM5 is not up to it.
007peter
Forum Pro
I'd started my M43 journeys with GF2. I really dig its SOLID-AS-A-BRICK body design with great buttons and control layout. Early GF1, GF2, GX1, and GF6 are a winner in term of builds quality and design. They were Targeted @enthusiasts come with hotshoes for external flash or wireless flash trigger in GF6.
But Panasonic switch to small plasticky design with a
But Panasonic switch to small plasticky design with a
- GF3, GF5, GF7, GF9, etc..
- Removed hotshoe
- Removed Wireless Flash trigger in GF6
- Reduce Battery size to make camera really lite
- Use more plastic to reduce weight
- Add Colorful Pink. White, Brown,
brentbrent
Veteran Member
Some aspects of the GX85 improved upon the GX7 for sure, but Panasonic also removed many GX7 features from the GX85 in order to be able to drop the price significantly. So maybe the improvements made it a major upgrade for you, but it struck me as a compromise camera that didn't interest me as a GX7 owner. The GX7 included the very best that Panasonic had to offer in a camera that size when it was released. The same cannot be said of the GX85.
To me the GX9 is the true no-compromise upgrade of the GX7. Well, there might still be one or two little things that the GX7 got better, but I'm sure I would have been tempted by the GX9 if I hadn't acquired a GX8 and G9 in the meantime.
windmillgolfer
Forum Pro
Squeezing in a 20MP sensor might attract a few sales but I doubt it’ll ever happen. If/ when my GM/ GF all die I’d consider an iPhone upgrade to a model with multiple lenses including UWA. I hope that’ll not be for several years, we might even be out of lockdown then
I use the small bodies when travelling, usually the GM5 plus GF7, the GM5 mostly with rather kit 12-60mm, sometimes the 14-140mm. The GF7 with Samyang 7.5mm FE but mostly the 7-14mm (now replaced with 8-18mm). I also take the 20mm f1.7mm, so I can put it on either body and carry a minimal belt mounted case, with spare batteries.
I take a Manfrotto Pixie used with GF7 and UWA for upward looking architecture shots.
The GM1 has my 42.5mm welded to it for touchscreen triggered shots of our toddler granddaughter.
Of course, for fun, I have used the GM5 with the 100-400mm and it handles fine. But I never carry the 100-400mm just in case and at 400mm I want dual- IS with G80, now G9.
There are camera specific albums on my Flickr for each of the models mentioned above, also by lens.
--
Stuart
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157669344521949
FZ2000 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157698581763842
FZ330 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157659823425652
TZ60 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157642261079494
Aurora Borealis https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157663549812064
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alcelc
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You must have every lens having OIS, or use tripod often?Yes it was an upgrade, butGX85 is a major upgrade from GX7 (which is also a major upgrade from GX1) to me.Yes Panasonic threw everything they had at it from the design locker and made It a real hard act to follow - I nearly like it as much as a GM5
Years have not wearied the GX7 - I still love it to death - the GX85 in my book was not really an upgrade,
I did not really need it that bad
The above has open up a door of new sort of shooting for me.
Yeah, except Auto Exposure Bracketing and Focus Bracketing, the WB & Aperture Bracketing are less useful to me.
Wow, able to shoot at ISO3200 vs ISO1600 having noise in good control is a big plus to me. Indeed while GX7 can barely use ISO3200, under careful exposure setting ISO6400 on GX85 is touchable.
It can be switched by a fn key.
I don't mind not have that physical switch since I don't use MF often. In fact half press shutter & turn the focus ring of native lens can switch into MF...
If I had skipped GX85, I shall also upgrade to GX9 without doubt. B
while have GX85, the improved features in GX9 becoming more incremental.
Might G95 indeed be the dumb version of G9. GX is always sitting somewhere between GF and G, more than an entry class model, but not really a mid range class model as G yet.
GX7 has goody that GX85 is lacking. The tilt evf is one (I shoot in waist level a lot)... It has replaced GX1 to become my backup camera now.
I do, and I still love her
I mean the GF1! (Does not it mean "your first and only girlfriend" anyway? 
)
FunGuy66
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At the risk of repeating myself: I'm familiar with the arguments and practical, hands-on issues both pro and con. Some of them are down to taste, preference and opinion, not objective fact.
Without rehashing all that yet again, I like them but am well aware most people don't. Therefore I'm about 99% certain that Panasonic will never re-adopt the concept, and I'm OK with that. (I was going to say "revive" but if I'm not mistaken Leica still offers an accessory EVF for one or two of its cameras.)
I mentioned it as an admittedly unlikely wish-list item. Wasn't intending to revive the debate... but clearly I should have known better.
Edit: right after this I decided to check to see who still offers an accessory EVF. To my surprise, in addition to Leica (whose Visoflex Typ 020 not only tilts, but swivels!) there's also Canon, with a model that fits both a couple of M bodies and a couple of enthusiast compacts. This alone isn't enough to make me switch to Canon, but it's intriguing.
Without rehashing all that yet again, I like them but am well aware most people don't. Therefore I'm about 99% certain that Panasonic will never re-adopt the concept, and I'm OK with that. (I was going to say "revive" but if I'm not mistaken Leica still offers an accessory EVF for one or two of its cameras.)
I mentioned it as an admittedly unlikely wish-list item. Wasn't intending to revive the debate... but clearly I should have known better.
Edit: right after this I decided to check to see who still offers an accessory EVF. To my surprise, in addition to Leica (whose Visoflex Typ 020 not only tilts, but swivels!) there's also Canon, with a model that fits both a couple of M bodies and a couple of enthusiast compacts. This alone isn't enough to make me switch to Canon, but it's intriguing.
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No not really - i have a Mamiya M645 mount 150/2.8 on it adapted to EF then focal reduced to M4/3. No issues with it hand held.You must have every lens having OIS, or use tripod often?Yes it was an upgrade, butGX85 is a major upgrade from GX7 (which is also a major upgrade from GX1) to me.Yes Panasonic threw everything they had at it from the design locker and made It a real hard act to follow - I nearly like it as much as a GM5
Years have not wearied the GX7 - I still love it to death - the GX85 in my book was not really an upgrade,
I did not really need it that bad
Still shooting is all that I am interested in. When I do theatre I can fit up to 800 images in a show - if this was high speed goodness how many images I would have to filter through afterwards at even an average of 1 minute a shot.
It really isn’t any bother.
Agreed.
My best camera is a GM5 and it is easy to see that even the GX7 is luxury for me ....
James Stirling
Forum Pro
The scale really does boggle the mind6 million hectares I believe in all - mostly in rugged forested country - hence “only” 3,000 homes lost. Mainly lost in the relatively few more populated areas where the fires intruded - but there were some “bush” villages that were completely wiped out.Tom, the amount of nice { by our standards } dry days since lock down kicked in seems higher than normal though this may just be a jail window take on it
Stupid activity by humans always manges to make a bad thing worse .
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