HatWearingFool
Senior Member
Yes people have some amazing things to say about the new z primes. I’d really like to try them out.
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Why does Fuji focus so much on new bodies when what we really want are more lenses?
- Thread starter Bobby V
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AllFlawed
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See Canon EOS M where this business philosophy even taken to extremes has very little detrimental effect on market penetration.
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And that's a reason not to get a T4? I own both and can't follow your logic here as both lenses work much faster on newer bodies.
Interesting. Thanks!Fujifilm allocates only a small portion of R&D to imaging. They are a profit driven company (as all are) and respond to market demands in a very competitive marketplace. If you want to underand why products are or are not developed read the report. They tell you!
"Revenue in photo imaging business was boosted of revenue
mainly by sales of instant photo systems that enable users
to enjoy on-the-spot printing of photos, such as instax..."
Many folks think Fujfilm is a camera/photography company. No more...the imaging business is only 11% of the group's portolio. So while their history is rooted in film they have moved way beyond that:
"Our current business portfolio was established after we survived the crisis of losing our core business to digitalization by leveraging our cutting-edge, proprietary, and advanced technologies honed in the photographic film business. Under VISION2019, our medium-term management plan, we are pushing ahead with growth strategies designed to further strengthen our portfolio, having positioned each business segment in the following three stages: (1) boosting profitability; (2) further accelerating growth; and (3) investing for the future."
SOURCE:FUJIFILM HOLDINGS CORPORATION - Integrated Report 2019
Report
"In the business fields where the Fujifilm Group operates, the intensification of competition with other companies may lead to declines in the selling prices of products, shorter product lifecycles, and the emergence of alternative products. These phenomena may negatively impact Fujifilm’s sales and, consequently, profit, forcing Fujifilm to increase R&D expenses and impair the goodwill and other intangible assets it holds. In the future, Fujifilm will continually work to develop products incorporating new technologies and to support the sales of such products with marketing activities. The success or failure of these activities is expected to have an influence on performance."
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Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been.
Bobby V
Senior Member
Yes, I already acknowledged the 2019 figure was in error on the fourth or fifth post down. 2018 says 3 lenses - so I'm not seeing the error there. We'll have to agree to disagree on the second point, I think there is a pretty clear pattern:
Yes it seems like Fuji is struggling to figure out what to offer next when many people are simply asking for weather sealed/AF improved versions of what we already have, along with some clear gaps on the telephoto end. Surely it required less R&D to develop the same lens with improved "packaging" than designing an entirely new optical formula.
So what you're saying is that there is a delayed effect going on from the start of lens development to release. This of course makes sense, but does it really explain why they haven't released more lenses? Based on that argument, wouldn't we then expect to see many more lens releases after their initial 2015-2016 success since we are about 3-4 years out from that?
Yes, this is one of the arguments I posed.
When it comes to sports and wildlife enthusiasts, they have been clamoring for a longer focal length prime for ages. Fuji has even put sports oriented features in their bodies but have few lenses that take advantage of it. I agree these are niche offerings and sure, they will sell less units versus a mainstream lens, but they could increase the margins to make up for it and I know they would have more buyers for such a lens versus the less mainstream (albeit excellent) 200 F/2. The 300 F/4 NIKKOR PF for example has been a resounding success for Nikon, and a small-ish 400 F/5.6 would be a bread and butter lens for a lot of wildlife photogs
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Definitely has slowed down, that's why I've looked into some other brand options, use adapted glass or just deal with what Fuji has.
I'm pretty sure they aren't ever going to make a 70 f2 or 1.4, either of which I'd get, I've lost patience holding out lol.
However, they DID surprise me with the 16 2.8, which I snapped up.
I'm pretty sure they aren't ever going to make a 70 f2 or 1.4, either of which I'd get, I've lost patience holding out lol.
However, they DID surprise me with the 16 2.8, which I snapped up.
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HatWearingFool
Senior Member
I think fuji said before they are capable of releasing ~6 new lenses a year. And with the release of the GFX system they had to prioritize lenses for the new system. It's supposed to be about 3/3 going forward and this year in fact 4 lens are slated to be released for their APSC mount. So I guess this year gfx gets 2 while we get 4.Yes, I already acknowledged the 2019 figure was in error on the fourth or fifth post down. 2018 says 3 lenses - so I'm not seeing the error there. We'll have to agree to disagree on the second point, I think there is a pretty clear pattern:
Yes it seems like Fuji is struggling to figure out what to offer next when many people are simply asking for weather sealed/AF improved versions of what we already have, along with some clear gaps on the telephoto end. Surely it required less R&D to develop the same lens with improved "packaging" than designing an entirely new optical formula.
So what you're saying is that there is a delayed effect going on from the start of lens development to release. This of course makes sense, but does it really explain why they haven't released more lenses? Based on that argument, wouldn't we then expect to see many more lens releases after their initial 2015-2016 success since we are about 3-4 years out from that?
Yes, this is one of the arguments I posed.
When it comes to sports and wildlife enthusiasts, they have been clamoring for a longer focal length prime for ages. Fuji has even put sports oriented features in their bodies but have few lenses that take advantage of it. I agree these are niche offerings and sure, they will sell less units versus a mainstream lens, but they could increase the margins to make up for it and I know they would have more buyers for such a lens versus the less mainstream (albeit excellent) 200 F/2. The 300 F/4 NIKKOR PF for example has been a resounding success for Nikon, and a small-ish 400 F/5.6 would be a bread and butter lens for a lot of wildlife photogs
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HatWearingFool
Senior Member
I'm also hoping for something around the 70-80 mark that prioritizes size more than the 90 did. Holding out hope it's one of the 3 unnamed releases slated for this year. If not I'll seriously be considering other systems.
What is this video of which you speak, and why would you use the 35/1.4 for video?
While the 35/1.4 could stand an update to add WR and new AF motors it is still a great lens, and out performs many equivalent lenses from other manufacturers. The same can be said for the 23/1.4. The AF performance is much improved on newer bodies such as the X-T3, X-E3, and I am sure it will be on the X-T4.
The bottom line for me is, I am have no plans to replace my copy of the 35/1.4 anytime soon.
What I mean is that if you take the period from 2017 on, Fuji have been releasing 2-3 lenses each year for X mount. There's no downward trend over that period, just a steady stream.
Of course, that period has not seen the same rapid schedule of the first three years of the system, when 20 lenses were released. However, all new systems have a rush of new lenses, to make them viable choices in the market. It's exactly what Canon and Nikon are doing now, but it doesn't mean they'll be releasing lenses that fast forever.
Yes, I do expect a lot of releases now. There has been one already in 2020, one more announced but not released (the 50 f1) and three more apparently on their way. If so, that will be the biggest release year since 2015.
Yes it seems like Fuji is struggling to figure out what to offer next when many people are simply asking for weather sealed/AF improved versions of what we already have, along with some clear gaps on the telephoto end. Surely it required less R&D to develop the same lens with improved "packaging" than designing an entirely new optical formula.
So what you're saying is that there is a delayed effect going on from the start of lens development to release. This of course makes sense, but does it really explain why they haven't released more lenses? Based on that argument, wouldn't we then expect to see many more lens releases after their initial 2015-2016 success since we are about 3-4 years out from that?
I don't disagree. I'm sure Fuji know that the 200 f2 isn't going to attract many pros without a few more sports/action lenses as well. However, even if Fuji made the decision to make lenses like that in 2017, we wouldn't expect them until this year.
Sony E mount launched in 2010. In 2017, it launched the Sony a9 - a genuine contender as a sports camera - but without any long primes at all. It was 2018 before it had its first native telephoto prime. Even now, it doesn't have a 300f2.8 , which is a staple for many sports. It takes time to build up a system.
HatWearingFool
Senior Member
I'm curious which modern competitors you feel the 35 1.4 outperforms. It seems do worse optically in tests (admittedly not everything is captured in a test) than equivalent Z, R, and FE lenses. And I think we all agree it definitely loses out in AF speed.
Pentax has done WR and lens coating upgrades to existing lenses for years. As long as the optics are still class competitive it's a solid strategy.
Bobby V
Senior Member
I hope you are right, but on the other hand we also can't ignore what is going on with production in Asia...with the way things are going there's a good chance we might not see any of this until at least 2021.
The 35 f1.4 is not an optical paragon. It's an old fashioned design which, as always, is weak in the borders wide open but sharpens up across the frame as you stop down. However, this adds to its appeal. It's also tiny
The 35f2 is sharper lens at shared apertures, if that's what you're after.
Modern 35/50 mm designs are much better - at the cost of size and weight. Even the Nikon 50 f1.8 S is bigger and heavier by some margin - it's actually bigger and heavier than the Fuji 16 f1.4 and 56 f1.2, which many people on this forum count as a big, heavy lenses.
However, I posted a couple of graphs the other day which show that the Fuji 23 f1.4 is a different beast. In terms of optical performance, it is in the same ballpark as the Nikon 35 f1.8.
Prime lenses in the telephoto range seem light to say the least.100mm or 150mm or 200mm lenses at f4 to keep the weight down? Even 90mm at 540g on the heavy side. Reviews of Fujifilm zooms good but not enough to convince me given the price of 100-400 zoom. Pent up demand for more X prime lenses.....for how long?
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John Gellings
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Which other brand has a better APSC lens lineup? We are spoiled...
True. I'm expecting many delays for products made in that part of the world, not just cameras.
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WhateverNickname
Senior Member
The GFX takes quite some resources away and we have seen Fuji more invested into it.
IT also bring more margins and a type of clients that are less price sensitive, so even if it accounts for single digit markets size, the profitability might be quite higher.
The X-mount sits in a mature shrinking market with a complete lens line-up for the amateur who likes the retro style (which Fuji has been targeting) . They can easily make more bodies with reduced R&D budgets and re-use of parts. Combine this with a stable lens manufacturing process of proved designs, all this is their improving profitability in a mature and shirking market. Just look at the new XC 35/2, this design basically has most of the parts and production line in common with the XT 35/2. It is basically not a new lens, but it allows Fuji to introduce a new lens (one I am interested btw)
So they are milking the X-mount as much as they can. Others need to get to this position (Nikon and Canon). Sony is a tech powerhoouse, so they can do what they want (As long as it dies not hurt the playstation business ...)
IT also bring more margins and a type of clients that are less price sensitive, so even if it accounts for single digit markets size, the profitability might be quite higher.
The X-mount sits in a mature shrinking market with a complete lens line-up for the amateur who likes the retro style (which Fuji has been targeting) . They can easily make more bodies with reduced R&D budgets and re-use of parts. Combine this with a stable lens manufacturing process of proved designs, all this is their improving profitability in a mature and shirking market. Just look at the new XC 35/2, this design basically has most of the parts and production line in common with the XT 35/2. It is basically not a new lens, but it allows Fuji to introduce a new lens (one I am interested btw)
So they are milking the X-mount as much as they can. Others need to get to this position (Nikon and Canon). Sony is a tech powerhoouse, so they can do what they want (As long as it dies not hurt the playstation business ...)
Flingz
Well-known member
I think there are more gear collectors than photographers and they are appealing to the masses. They know gear enthusiasts will get more excited about a body and photogs will probably be most interested in new lenses.
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