Official give us a proper rangefinder style m43 thread.

You seem to have a crush on Sony. Just buy one. That will get you to your nirvana much faster than trying to convince mega corporations to create your dream machine.

I don’t sit around and wait for non-existent gear. I decide what I want, look at the market, then go purchase what comes closest to my need. If what I want doesn’t exist, I do a reality check against my perceived needs.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
Don't trust anyone under 9100 feet
I prefer my GX9 design (also love the Pen-f design) and m43 lenses, which is why I am still hanging with this system.

The A6500 was released in 2016, is it really that unreasonable to ask for similar features in 2020 without being told to go somewhere else?
I waited and wasted far too much time for Canon to produce a decent range of small fast primes for the M system. 5 years later and they're still not there.

I tried m4/3, & wondered what was wrong with me for not doing it earlier. Go buy what works for you now. Not wait for fantasy cameras and lenses you think might make you happy. Just go do it. 5 years down the track and still extremely happy with what m4/3 is capable of, and it's getting better all the time
 
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It’s called a GX85, the best camera ever made!
 
https://camerasize.com/compare/#654,835

The RF form factor has one thing in one different place and isn't appreciably smaller on the whole. The half inch difference in height which comes to a central peak certainly wouldn't matter when transporting the thing in a bag--bags are made of fabric, which is a material known for its flexibility.
You obviously don't appreciate the RF style like some of us do, so I don't know why you're chiming in on this thread with your hating. That VF hump is a big deal to some of us - a dealbreaker, really. Should I try to convince you why? Or should I just let you go on enjoying the many, many great SLR-styled cameras?

Also, no one is "literally" making a mountain out of a molehill. We're advocating for higher-end RF-styled cameras.
While I estetically prefer the rangefinder style and not a camera with a hump that does not contain a prism, I am very happy mirrorless hump cameras exist.

I am "left eyed" and have this thing in the middle of the face called nose making unintentional adjustments on the LCD touchscreen on today's rangefinders!!! A tilt viewfinder solves the nose problem, but I do not think would like always being forced to lower my head.
And this is why I mostly keep the rear screen closed.... No problem as I use the EVF 99% of the time anyway.
 
This is a call out, shout out, smoke signal, messenger pigeon message to Olympus and Panasonic.

Get your sh** together and release a Pen-F or GX replacement that doesn't suck and can actually compete feature wise with the Sony A6500/A6600.

If you agree give this thread a +1 or reply with your thoughts.

Maybe they will notice, maybe they don't care, either way this can be a place to vent >:-0
-1. The GX9 does not suck.
 
Nine likes and three written responses. Are you all ready to pay the entire cost?

If the companies felt they would make money they would do it.

Businesses don't create products so they can lose money.

But it's OK to vent. Sorry to inject reality.
Isn't the Far Eastern camera industry a service industry with a duty to give armchair designers on the other side of the planet all they want at minimum cost and profit no object?
 
The rangefinder style is just that, styling. So is the SLR style. There is no technical reason to use either.

When Panasonic launched the G1 - the first m4/3 camera - back in 2008 the said the chose the SLR styling for user acceptance, fearing that any other design could intimidate or alienate potential customers.

Olympus produced the Pen F which was expensive. It didn’t achieve the anticipated sales. It featured some interesting design choices but has a following. Who knows if Olympus will ever produce a successor. At the moment it looks unlikely.

Panasonic have had more rangefinder styled bodies, so clearly they do sell. But we all know the market for cameras is shrinking, and that means it’s harder to justify niche models... and manufacturers will know the numbers and return on investment required to make such products work. If they believe they can turn sufficient profit from a product, it will be made.

a lack of camera releases suggests that the market isn’t there, sadly, as variety is the spice of life.

Personally, I’d find an interchangeable lens variant of the LX100 difficult to resist!
 
https://camerasize.com/compare/#654,835

The RF form factor has one thing in one different place and isn't appreciably smaller on the whole. The half inch difference in height which comes to a central peak certainly wouldn't matter when transporting the thing in a bag--bags are made of fabric, which is a material known for its flexibility.
You obviously don't appreciate the RF style like some of us do, so I don't know why you're chiming in on this thread with your hating. That VF hump is a big deal to some of us - a dealbreaker, really. Should I try to convince you why? Or should I just let you go on enjoying the many, many great SLR-styled cameras?

Also, no one is "literally" making a mountain out of a molehill. We're advocating for higher-end RF-styled cameras.
While I estetically prefer the rangefinder style and not a camera with a hump that does not contain a prism, I am very happy mirrorless hump cameras exist.

I am "left eyed" and have this thing in the middle of the face called nose making unintentional adjustments on the LCD touchscreen on today's rangefinders!!! A tilt viewfinder solves the nose problem, but I do not think would like always being forced to lower my head.
And this is why I mostly keep the rear screen closed.... No problem as I use the EVF 99% of the time anyway.
I never use the screen to take photos, but I like to use it when I change settings and to specify the focus point - which is quite often. No issues with my great humpy G9 in this respect, but it is an annoyance when I use the GX85 to open and close the screen.
 
This is a call out, shout out, smoke signal, messenger pigeon message to Olympus and Panasonic.

Get your sh** together and release a Pen-F or GX replacement that doesn't suck and can actually compete feature wise with the Sony A6500/A6600.
Yeah, a Pen F 2 would be great. As long as it doesn't look and feel like it came out of a bubblegum machine like the E-M5iii.😃
If you agree give this thread a +1 or reply with your thoughts.

Maybe they will notice, maybe they don't care, either way this can be a place to vent >:-0
Agreed, the Pen-F aesthetics are pretty much perfect. They don't need to go messing it up with a drastic change like making bigger or plastic. Just update the specs to 2020 standards.

Look at where the A6000 started and where A6600 is now. They packed all that tech into such a small package while maintaining the same shape as the original. It can be done.

The same with the GX9. The size and shape are good, just update the specs. You guys are getting left in the dust!
I agree wholeheartedly with this post. Sony continues to invest in its bodies and bringing tech forwared. The PEN F is the nicest camera I've ever owned, but weather sealed, PDAF, and new tech like 4k uncropped would compel me to upgrade.
 
The rangefinder style is just that, styling. So is the SLR style. There is no technical reason to use either.

When Panasonic launched the G1 - the first m4/3 camera - back in 2008 the said the chose the SLR styling for user acceptance, fearing that any other design could intimidate or alienate potential customers.
It had to look like a "serious" camera, and what the great unwashed see as a "serious" camera looks like an SLR style.
Olympus produced the Pen F which was expensive. It didn’t achieve the anticipated sales. It featured some interesting design choices but has a following. Who knows if Olympus will ever produce a successor. At the moment it looks unlikely.
Yes, that is gone.
Panasonic have had more rangefinder styled bodies, so clearly they do sell. But we all know the market for cameras is shrinking, and that means it’s harder to justify niche models... and manufacturers will know the numbers and return on investment required to make such products work. If they believe they can turn sufficient profit from a product, it will be made.
The brick style camera does sell, but in certain markets to certain buyers. The Pen Lite line is aimed at Asian women buyers and that's where it is still selling well enough that we can safely predict an E-PL11. The trick seems to be that some would like a "more serious" camera than a phone but don't want to muss up makeup so it must be screen use only, hence the success of the Pen Lite still continues but further down the BCN lists lately.
a lack of camera releases suggests that the market isn’t there, sadly, as variety is the spice of life.
No really significant improvements in cameras in the last say 5 years, they got "good enough" for most folks some time back, and now of course smartphones have also climbed the "good enough" ladder to kick the cameras off.
Personally, I’d find an interchangeable lens variant of the LX100 difficult to resist!
They call that M4/3, but generally that has swollen in size.

I went the other way and bought a Sony RX100M6 for when I want small and versatile and fuss-free photography and it does magnificently, except when the light gets too low of course, then it's back to M4/3 and f/2.8 zooms.
 
The rangefinder style is just that, styling. So is the SLR style. There is no technical reason to use either.
Oh boy...

So let's start:
  1. More rectangular and efficient form factor which lends itself better to compact size.
  2. Decentered EVF, mostly useful for right-eye users but I like it because it makes the right-side real estate more readily available.
  3. Possibility of tilting EVF; don't knock it until you've tried it. Chris Nicols, however Canadian and entertaining as he is misses the point completely when he thinks it is made to take unobtrusive street shots. NOT!
  4. It's plain sexier. Oh wait, that's style...
 
I don't disagree none at all with that sly old Guy Parsons, but since he done literally wrote the book on the PL-1 that wore down my natural defenses and tempted me, and I did buy one and get all addicted to them fine Olympus Micro Four Thirds cameras,,,,but I do think he ought to have added one more request.

In good light, the JPEG color engine of the original PL-1 renders a certain aura that cannot be quite duplicated by any other camera.

We needs us a P-6, with an optional PL-1 colors JPEG setting in the menu.

So a newcomer to MFT can do this, the first shot.





And then go on to take these within a month.

















--
Humansville is a town in the Missouri Ozarks
 
The rangefinder style is just that, styling. So is the SLR style. There is no technical reason to use either.
Oh boy...

So let's start:
  1. More rectangular and efficient form factor which lends itself better to compact size.
  2. Decentered EVF, mostly useful for right-eye users but I like it because it makes the right-side real estate more readily available.
  3. Possibility of tilting EVF; don't knock it until you've tried it. Chris Nicols, however Canadian and entertaining as he is misses the point completely when he thinks it is made to take unobtrusive street shots. NOT!
  4. It's plain sexier. Oh wait, that's style...
You’re missing my point WhiteBeard. In theory, the camera could now have any form factor. For example, a design like a telescope or binoculars, or something totally different.

The SLR or rangefinder styles are choices, not technical reasons. The lens in front of the sensor is a technical restriction. The viewfinder could be anywhere... a head up display in glasses for example.

Camera designers use familiar form factors. Designs could be very different, but would the market accept them?
 
The rangefinder style is just that, styling. So is the SLR style. There is no technical reason to use either.
Oh boy...

So let's start:
  1. More rectangular and efficient form factor which lends itself better to compact size.
  2. Decentered EVF, mostly useful for right-eye users but I like it because it makes the right-side real estate more readily available.
  3. Possibility of tilting EVF; don't knock it until you've tried it. Chris Nicols, however Canadian and entertaining as he is misses the point completely when he thinks it is made to take unobtrusive street shots. NOT!
  4. It's plain sexier. Oh wait, that's style...
You’re missing my point WhiteBeard. In theory, the camera could now have any form factor. For example, a design like a telescope or binoculars, or something totally different.

The SLR or rangefinder styles are choices, not technical reasons. The lens in front of the sensor is a technical restriction. The viewfinder could be anywhere... a head up display in glasses for example.

Camera designers use familiar form factors. Designs could be very different, but would the market accept them?
A wireless headup glasses display will inevitably happen one day. I am 100% sure about that. But I think it will complement, not replace the EVF. In plain sunlight headup glasses are useless. And if designed like fully enclosed FPV goggles too dangerous.

That said, I predict it will happen first not with our ILC cameras - but with phone cameras.

PS: imagine the huge advantage of such glasses for macro photography, no more crawling on wet moss in a forest. Or for street photography.
 
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The rangefinder style is just that, styling. So is the SLR style. There is no technical reason to use either.
Oh boy...

So let's start:
  1. More rectangular and efficient form factor which lends itself better to compact size.
  2. Decentered EVF, mostly useful for right-eye users but I like it because it makes the right-side real estate more readily available.
  3. Possibility of tilting EVF; don't knock it until you've tried it. Chris Nicols, however Canadian and entertaining as he is misses the point completely when he thinks it is made to take unobtrusive street shots. NOT!
  4. It's plain sexier. Oh wait, that's style...
You’re missing my point WhiteBeard. In theory, the camera could now have any form factor. For example, a design like a telescope or binoculars, or something totally different.

The SLR or rangefinder styles are choices, not technical reasons. The lens in front of the sensor is a technical restriction. The viewfinder could be anywhere... a head up display in glasses for example.

Camera designers use familiar form factors. Designs could be very different, but would the market accept them?
A wireless headup glasses display will inevitably happen one day. I am 100% sure about that. But I think it will complement, not replace the EVF. In plain sunlight headup glasses are useless. And if designed like fully enclosed FPV goggles too dangerous.

That said, I predict it will happen first not with our ILC cameras - but with phone cameras.

PS: imagine the huge advantage of such glasses for macro photography, no more crawling on wet moss in a forest. Or for street photography.
Actually a phone is all display so this wouldnt be so relevant there.



However it is the way that smart watches will end up replacing the snartphone form factor. Most likely with contact lenses as the display and a lens clipped to your shirt or lapel.
 
The rangefinder style is just that, styling. So is the SLR style. There is no technical reason to use either.
Oh boy...

So let's start:
  1. More rectangular and efficient form factor which lends itself better to compact size.
  2. Decentered EVF, mostly useful for right-eye users but I like it because it makes the right-side real estate more readily available.
  3. Possibility of tilting EVF; don't knock it until you've tried it. Chris Nicols, however Canadian and entertaining as he is misses the point completely when he thinks it is made to take unobtrusive street shots. NOT!
  4. It's plain sexier. Oh wait, that's style...
You’re missing my point WhiteBeard. In theory, the camera could now have any form factor. For example, a design like a telescope or binoculars, or something totally different.

The SLR or rangefinder styles are choices, not technical reasons. The lens in front of the sensor is a technical restriction. The viewfinder could be anywhere... a head up display in glasses for example.

Camera designers use familiar form factors. Designs could be very different, but would the market accept them?
I'll go as far as saying that present-day DSLR / rangefinder form factors hark from the 35mm film days when you needed a certain shape to serve the film's physical progress. It was however also optimized over the last century for best hand-holding and compactness. If you have a better idea for the ideal camera design, please share...
 
43 Rumors just posted that a GX10 is coming beginning of this year. Let's hope the are correct and if it is released it's not stripped of features!
 
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43 Rumors just posted that a GX10 is coming beginning of this year. Let's hope the are correct and if it is released it's not stripped of features!
With Panasonic and their interesting naming criteria you never know if the next number in a sequence such as going from GX8 to GX9 .Is an update of the previous model or an entirely different market segment , I would happily pay good money for a real GX8 update with the latest IBIS etc
 
43 Rumors just posted that a GX10 is coming beginning of this year. Let's hope the are correct and if it is released it's not stripped of features!
This rumor is only tagged as FT4 (rumor from known sources) and contains no relevant picture nor info other that the GX10 will have a Mic input.

Not holding my breath for the time being...
 
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43 Rumors just posted that a GX10 is coming beginning of this year. Let's hope the are correct and if it is released it's not stripped of features!
This rumor is only tagged as FT4 (rumor from known sources) and contains no relevant picture nor info other that the GX10 will have a Mic input.

Not holding my breath for the time being...
They have to go with GX10, since they already used G10 a long time ago.
 
43 Rumors just posted that a GX10 is coming beginning of this year. Let's hope the are correct and if it is released it's not stripped of features!
With Panasonic and their interesting naming criteria you never know if the next number in a sequence such as going from GX8 to GX9 .Is an update of the previous model or an entirely different market segment , I would happily pay good money for a real GX8 update with the latest IBIS etc
It's a marketing technique. Instead of appealing to one market, such as upgraders, Panasonic tries to appeal to two markets (double the sales?):
  1. Those who know nothing and buy the latest
  2. Those who own what appears to be the previous, thus are now upgraders

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
Don't trust anyone under 9100 feet
 

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