RLight

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When I first gambled on the EOS M series many moons ago (selling off other gear), Canon had just released the EOS M2 for Japan/Select Countries-only which at the time I imported in addition to the EOS M and 22mm I grabbed on an eBay firesale. I had to do workarounds such as turret viewfinders, customized aftermarket grips, and had to shoot continuous drive and "spray and pray" to compensate for the lackluster AF of the EOS M's at the time and provided ergonomics. Things have come a long ways in 6 years. Fast forward to the EOS M6 Mark II, the successor to both the EOS M5 and EOS M6 both of which I've owned.

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The EOS M6 Mark II is the 2nd EOS M camera to have autofocus capable of hitting highly demanding circumstances, the 1st being the EOS M50. However, the EOS M6 Mark II takes it another level with 14FPS, deeper buffer and UHS-II support for fast clearing of buffer (relatively speaking) and even better autofocus. The EOS M6 Mark II also is a return to the M3 form factor where you can add or remove the electronic viewfinder (if you have or get one) for ultra-compact outings where the famed EF-M 22mm f/2 STM can be solely mounted without the EVF for a pocket-able (coat or cargo) solution for the popular 35mm focal length (22mm on APS-C) which many other offerings out there ala Fuji X100 series offer.

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The first thing that strikes you about the M6 Mark II is the ergonomics. It's very well built. A pleasure to handle and shoot with. Plenty of buttons, dials and even full time manual focus override with dedicated (and programable) back button focus, button. Having a camera that can take good images is half the battle, the other half is having one that's fun to use. The EOS M6 Mark II is fun. I would actually have to give the M50 the platinum award in fun with it's fully articulating screen and DSLR form factor, but the M6 Mark II is 2nd only to it.

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The EOS M6 Mark II is also the first APS-C (crop sensor camera) I've shot with that approaches full frame offerings in terms of image quality between it's impressive handling of high ISOs, 32MP of resolution, and WYSIWYG colors and tones. The original EOS M with the 22mm pancake won me over as an alternative to carrying my 5D Mark III around with 24-105L all the time, and the M6 Mark II with it's more impressive EF-M catalogue does it further with my EOS R and 28-70 f/2L getting left home most days with the exception being special events or if I feel like it and the M6 Mark II and it's EF-M offerings supplanting it for day-to-day use to have something more powerful on me than a smartphone but is lightweight and low profile.

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Video is excellent between Canon's class leading DPAF technology for smooth cinema-like focus, uncropped 4K with class leading rolling shutter (a big deal for 4K) and famed Canon colors. The two gripes with video I have is AWB-W, which is a WB setting that renders white as white under artificial lighting instead of an amber (default AWB) which is more pleasing but less true to life, AWB-W is not an option on the dial when programmed for fast switching to it (you still can, just not through the programmable dial). The 2nd is in order to get 4K, you have to turn the dial to Movie; pressing the record button in any other mode ends up with 1080P. Both of these can be fixed with firmware and I hope they will when Canon brings 24P support to the M6 Mark II later this year.

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Speaking of AWB, the other gripe I have with the M6 Mark II is on less common circumstances the AWB can select something just off enough to skew skin tones, thankfully if you shoot RAW (you should with a camera this advanced to make the most of it) you can correct this with your favorite post-processor of choice.

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Battery life is excellent with it going full days worth of demanding shooting (I've shot more than 1,000 shots, easy) on a full charge without needing to switch the battery.

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I do recommend a Sony Tough UHS-II card of some kind to keep up with the sheer amount of data this can kick out as it's the fastest card on the market that I've tested for the camera. 14FPS RAWs fill your buffer, fast. C-RAW is another option I highly recommend you take advantage of as the only penalty it suffers from what I can tell, is the lack of ability to apply Canon's DLO corrections, that only work if using Canon's own, free, DPP4 post-processor. Most folks don't use the software so I'd skip RAW and do C-RAW. I'm picky and do RAW and in fact use DPP4 as I don't care to rent software ala Adobe Creative suite. Canon's DPP4 also preserves Canon's famed colors which the latest Adobe LR CC still doesn't support a color match for at the time of this writing, which is a big deal and a big fail on behalf of Adobe in my book.

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The other obvious gotcha, the lack of built-in viewfinder precludes the ability to both mount a viewfinder, and external flash at the same time. It's a double edged sword. You have the option to go ultra-compact, sans EVF, but, you can't go ultra-powerful with an EVF and speedlite. I personally agree with Canon's approach, but, wish there was some third option like pop-up EVF so I could have it all. That didn't happen this round.

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The one thing Canon lacks for the M system at this junction, a "party lens" that is a faster equivalence zoom. Granted the 32mm and 22mm primes can do that duty, and do it ultra-compact which is the point of the M system (to have something powerful, but small and light and doesn't break the bank), but lens swaps during special events is not desirable. That's where I still reach for my EOS R and RF 28-70 f/2L where I never swap lenses, period as it's 5 primes in a single zoom essentially. Be nice to see an f/2.8 zoom of some kind as I personally even though I enjoy the image quality of the EOS R, would like to see something although won't match my EOS R and RF 28-70 f/2L aka Goliath, I'd like David aka my EOS M setup, have a smooth stone to slay Goliath with, filling the single lens gap that presently exists.

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Overall I think Canon has a sweet spot here. It doesn't have IBIS which would be immensely useful for video with the 22mm and 32mm (no OIS on those lenses), but, 32MP with fast 4K readout, is hard to beat as more resolution is more resolution and what's the point of 4K if you have rolling shutter? Even my 18-150 superzoom lens, looks better at 32MP than 24MP and even with it's class-leading rolling shutter, there's times you can still notice it under the right conditions. For most folks I recommend the EOS M50, it's cheaper, and has a built-in EVF and doesn't have occasional AWB hiccups and is a more refined beast in my book. But, the M6 Mark II has much more teeth with more advanced AF, better low light performance and uncropped 4K with class leading rolling shutter. For the discerning pro wanting a personal option, or an advanced amateur, it should be on your short list as the EOS M series is a truly compact APS-C offering where the competition is pushing towards bigger, heavier and more expensive offerings. In a market where Full Frame offerings like the EOS RP, A7III are offering compelling FF offerings and smartphone manufactures are offering compelling take everywhere and now decent low light performance, the EOS M6 mark II offers are much smaller, lighter and cheaper alternative to the FF heavyweights for the average Joe as lets face it, folks don't want to drag their DSLR (or even Mirrorless FF) everywhere, but, they want high quality stills and video to throw on Facebook, Instagram, print and send to relatives and want something they can throw in a pocket, or not get in the way of life. The EOS M6 Mark II and it's cheaper M50 brother tick those boxes as simple as those boxes may be, without breaking the bank, or the back.

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Kids and pets gets 5/5 as the AF is really good, and this is very portable. Action sports gets 5/5 due to class leading crop sensor resolution married with 14FPS and crop duty to multiply the focal length on a FF adapted lens which this is arguably better than the 90D for that, ironically. Landscape gets 5/5 with 32MP resolution for a crop sensor. Portraits only gets 3/5 because Canon lacks native glass options particularly a fast zoom, granted Sigma is a good alternative with it's f/1.4 primes, but there should be a native fast zoom by now for the M so it falls short here where I might recommend a Fuji or Sony with their fast primes and fast zooms, natively, but, big but, those options are much larger and much more expensive which defeats the purpose of the EOS M's of their go-everywhere mantra and not break the bank so it goes with the turf perhaps. Low light scores 4/5 only because this isn't Full frame and I'm picky. It's REALLY good for crop and destroys a smartphone, don't hear what I'm not saying. Flash is unrated because you have to choose between a flash and an EVF on which to put in the hotshoe which I like my EVFs, but, it does have a bounce-able pop-up flash (bounce part is important, and built-in at that). Studio/still life gets 5/5 due to sheer resolution and availability of cheap light small 32mm and 28mm lenses for macro duty. Not fair to rate a camera on its lenses, I know, but it comes down to glass; pick a system for its glass, price, image quality and fun. The M6 Mark II scores top marks on most things, except, if it's lacking glass you want. Hopefully Canon will address this in the future even if that means it'll compete with their precious cash-cow EOS R and RF offerings... Or you can do what I do, have a system for take everywhere (EOS M system) and one for heavy duty (EOS R), but the latter is becoming a pro-only affair lately with it's price point and size which the EOS M series and the M6 Mark II is a very welcome respite for those who wield a FF pro offerings like myself, but want the same or near level of image quality, but much more portable.

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So far my M6II won't replace my G1XIII. There is just no native M lens to compete with the G1X' lens. OTOH the two cameras complement each other very well. For hiking I use the G1X with the M + 55-250 or 70-300 IS II as a two camera kit. I keep 11-22 and 28 macro in my pack. Less than 4 lbs with 55-250. Instant access to 24-400 mm (35 equiv) with no lens changes. RLight's lizard image (2nd to the last) with the 70-300 shows how capable this combo is.

My gripe with the M6II is that you really have to use DPP to get the most out of it. I'm pretty committed to and happy with the Lightroom library organization and editing capability up to the 5D4, 80D, G1XIII generation. DPP throws a monkey wrench into this since it edits and makes changes a camera's raw file. LR doesn't like that a bit. So the M6II lives in a different post processing universe from my other cameras. DLO and ALO are impressive though and the M6II resolution demands these.

Here are two variations of an image. The first PPd in LR the 2nd in DPP. The color difference is obvious but you'll have to view 100% to see the sharpness difference. The DPP version does introduce some sharpening artifacts visible at 100% but produces the more pleasing image. IMHO.



Lightroom Post Processing.
Lightroom Post Processing.



Canon DPP Post Processing.
Canon DPP Post Processing.
 
Constantly repeating the phrase "class leading rolling shutter" does not make it true.
According to DPR...

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-m6-ii-review/2

17ms

Tops the list
Do you think that the entire crop sensor camera market consists of only 4 models?
Which other crop model has faster rolling shutter? Without cropping, no pun intended.
First, you need to recognize that the 17ms rating on the M6 II comes with major caveats. The M6 II reaches 17ms via pixel binning and line skipping during 4k recording. It is a full width readout, but very far from a full sensor readout. This is a bit like saying your set the world record for the 1500m when you only ran one lap around the track. If the M6 II was doing full sensor readout like the competition, the rolling shutter would be somewhere in the high 30's.

Switching from video to the 18mp RAW burst mode, your rolling shutter is in the mid 20 something millisecond range. When shooting regular photos with electronic shutter, you are now at 46ms. This is similar to the Sony cameras you like to complain about and far from class leading.

Regardless of all of the caveats with the M6 II, the Fuji X-T3 beats it with a 16ms rating while doing oversampled full sensor readout 4k video. That is class leading.
Source? Doesn't the X-T30 share the same sensor as the X-T3?
Doesn't the M50 share the same sensor with the M100.
Why would they have a different rating?
Different processors.
Oh wait, that 16ms is dependent on crop mode, that's right... That's "cheating" too... Except, who wants to use crop mode 100% of the time? Well, not me anyways.
What on earth are you talking about? The X-T3 does not have a crop when shooting 4k. There is only a 1.18X crop when shooting at 4k60p. Again, there is only a crop when shooting at 60p.
Last time we had this conversation, your source pointed to 16ms being dependent on crop-mode, if my memory serves me.
Your memory is failing
That's a worse "cheat" than what Canon's doing here. Although said "cheat" is useful for certain situations. The 90D has a crop mode in 4k (which the M6 II doesn't have...), which would be nice to have the option on the M6 Mark II when you subject is farther away... Maybe we'll get it alongside the 24P firmware update? Doubt it. Canon's not that nice.

Canon made the right choice IMO with "cheating" to get their 17ms rolling shutter. Perhaps Fuji should cheat too so they can match the 17ms, without cropping :) If you gave me a X-T3 and it had a 2.8k mode with 17ms rolling shutter and 4k mode with 23ms rolling shutter, I'd pick the 2.8k-17ms mode for most things and the 4k-23ms mode for things more detailed (macro, foliage, etc). Best of both worlds. But note which I'm picking more often... Options are good and I think the course Canon took was the right one for most folks as if you look at the rolling shutter of say a A6400, even at 30P (31ms), it's quite noticeable.
Are you done with your nonsense "cheating" rant? Since you can't seem to remember, I will say it again... The X-T3 has a 16ms rolling shutter while shooting 4k24/25/30p with downsampled full sensor readout, zero crop, and 4:2:0 10-bit 400 Mbps h.265 internal recording. the 16ms rating comes from Fuji, but Cinema5D's own testing measured 9ms when shooting 4k25p.
 
So far my M6II won't replace my G1XIII. There is just no native M lens to compete with the G1X' lens. OTOH the two cameras complement each other very well. For hiking I use the G1X with the M + 55-250 or 70-300 IS II as a two camera kit. I keep 11-22 and 28 macro in my pack. Less than 4 lbs with 55-250. Instant access to 24-400 mm (35 equiv) with no lens changes. RLight's lizard image (2nd to the last) with the 70-300 shows how capable this combo is.

My gripe with the M6II is that you really have to use DPP to get the most out of it. I'm pretty committed to and happy with the Lightroom library organization and editing capability up to the 5D4, 80D, G1XIII generation. DPP throws a monkey wrench into this since it edits and makes changes a camera's raw file. LR doesn't like that a bit. So the M6II lives in a different post processing universe from my other cameras. DLO and ALO are impressive though and the M6II resolution demands these.

Here are two variations of an image. The first PPd in LR the 2nd in DPP. The color difference is obvious but you'll have to view 100% to see the sharpness difference. The DPP version does introduce some sharpening artifacts visible at 100% but produces the more pleasing image. IMHO.

Lightroom Post Processing.
Lightroom Post Processing.

Canon DPP Post Processing.
Canon DPP Post Processing.
The colors and corrections are better in DPP4 than LR. LR's machine learning driven auto-lighting is a good starting point for light changes and it's graphics acceleration support for live changes though can't be matched by DPP4 in return. Doing DPP4 > TIFF > LR is a good option for best of both worlds, which in fact of the 10 image samples up, the last one was DPP4 exclusively vs the first 9 were DPP4 > TIFF > LR > JPEG.

I do have a modified M50 color profile I slapped M6 II meta-tag on which works well that at least addresses colors if you want a single product (LR) solution. But you loose ALO and DLO respectively, and LR color matching is good, but not quite as good. Sometimes (around 40% of the time) I still prefer DPP4 output, without LR intervention.

The JPEG NR of DPP4 and in-camera is highly aggressive for the 32MP resolution. For low ISO images, set the NR to zero (in DPP4) for restoration of detail. It's a balancing act though; I've noted Canon's picture profiles appear tied to their noise reduction somehow and sometimes turning off NR on certain images, negatively impacts colors and tones for no logical reason when the reverse should be happening.

Also, if you've read the white paper on the upcoming 1DX mark III, HEIF support is coming, which could in fact come to DPP4 and in turn the M6 Mark II which supports HDR. To get the most of HDR, consider using D+ or D+2 to preserve highlights as necessary as this does in fact change your exposure at time of shot. Granted you could do the same manually, but remembering to do so is a very Sony, not Canon thing to do apparently. That's where I use D+2 which I've been playing with this week.

Oh, the G1X III lens is it's own beast. Copy that. The G1X III though, is a bit slow in terms of AF, and hence why I sold mine. If it had a DIGIC8 in it? I'd still have it like yourself to complement my M6 mark II. Right now the only fast zoom alternative is the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM adapted. I'm giving that another go by the way. It's worth the $20 to ship it back to Canon if I decide it still doesn't work on the M6 Mark II like it didn't on the EOS M6 Mark I. I'm hoping I get a better copy that doesn't have a hump in the zoom-action, and the M6 mark II's grip and better battery life improve my feelings of the lens. It's a gamble, but, The EOS R and RF lenses are already huge. Trading one large for another, even a compromise (adapting optics), is a bargain if it yields the results (improved 4k indoor video; decent-enough stills). We'll see.
 
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Constantly repeating the phrase "class leading rolling shutter" does not make it true.
According to DPR...

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-m6-ii-review/2

17ms

Tops the list
Do you think that the entire crop sensor camera market consists of only 4 models?
Which other crop model has faster rolling shutter? Without cropping, no pun intended.
First, you need to recognize that the 17ms rating on the M6 II comes with major caveats. The M6 II reaches 17ms via pixel binning and line skipping during 4k recording. It is a full width readout, but very far from a full sensor readout. This is a bit like saying your set the world record for the 1500m when you only ran one lap around the track. If the M6 II was doing full sensor readout like the competition, the rolling shutter would be somewhere in the high 30's.

Switching from video to the 18mp RAW burst mode, your rolling shutter is in the mid 20 something millisecond range. When shooting regular photos with electronic shutter, you are now at 46ms. This is similar to the Sony cameras you like to complain about and far from class leading.

Regardless of all of the caveats with the M6 II, the Fuji X-T3 beats it with a 16ms rating while doing oversampled full sensor readout 4k video. That is class leading.
Source? Doesn't the X-T30 share the same sensor as the X-T3?
Doesn't the M50 share the same sensor with the M100.
Why would they have a different rating?
Different processors.
Oh wait, that 16ms is dependent on crop mode, that's right... That's "cheating" too... Except, who wants to use crop mode 100% of the time? Well, not me anyways.
What on earth are you talking about? The X-T3 does not have a crop when shooting 4k. There is only a 1.18X crop when shooting at 4k60p. Again, there is only a crop when shooting at 60p.
And the 17ms (not 16ms) is actually from the cropped 60p mode. EOSHD

Anyway. An idiotic discussion. As the numbers are not from the same source, so the cameras can not be directly compared. The M6 II can very well be the class leader. And actually I thought the X-T3 was in a different price class.
Last time we had this conversation, your source pointed to 16ms being dependent on crop-mode, if my memory serves me.
Your memory is failing
That's a worse "cheat" than what Canon's doing here. Although said "cheat" is useful for certain situations. The 90D has a crop mode in 4k (which the M6 II doesn't have...), which would be nice to have the option on the M6 Mark II when you subject is farther away... Maybe we'll get it alongside the 24P firmware update? Doubt it. Canon's not that nice.

Canon made the right choice IMO with "cheating" to get their 17ms rolling shutter. Perhaps Fuji should cheat too so they can match the 17ms, without cropping :) If you gave me a X-T3 and it had a 2.8k mode with 17ms rolling shutter and 4k mode with 23ms rolling shutter, I'd pick the 2.8k-17ms mode for most things and the 4k-23ms mode for things more detailed (macro, foliage, etc). Best of both worlds. But note which I'm picking more often... Options are good and I think the course Canon took was the right one for most folks as if you look at the rolling shutter of say a A6400, even at 30P (31ms), it's quite noticeable.
Are you done with your nonsense "cheating" rant? Since you can't seem to remember, I will say it again... The X-T3 has a 16ms rolling shutter while shooting 4k24/25/30p with downsampled full sensor readout, zero crop, and 4:2:0 10-bit 400 Mbps h.265 internal recording. the 16ms rating comes from Fuji, but Cinema5D's own testing measured 9ms when shooting 4k25p.
 
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Here are two variations of an image. The first PPd in LR the 2nd in DPP. The color difference is obvious but you'll have to view 100% to see the sharpness difference. The DPP version does introduce some sharpening artifacts visible at 100% but produces the more pleasing image. IMHO.

Lightroom Post Processing.
Lightroom Post Processing.

Canon DPP Post Processing.
Canon DPP Post Processing.
I personally prefer the upper LR conversion in every regard. Both the exposure/lighting and colors look flat in the DPP conversion. Looking at the yellow feathers on the throat, the DPP conversion has zero detail remaining, but plenty of sharpening artifacts. The LR conversions shows much more detail and less artifacts.
 
Constantly repeating the phrase "class leading rolling shutter" does not make it true.
According to DPR...

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-m6-ii-review/2

17ms

Tops the list
Do you think that the entire crop sensor camera market consists of only 4 models?
Which other crop model has faster rolling shutter? Without cropping, no pun intended.
First, you need to recognize that the 17ms rating on the M6 II comes with major caveats. The M6 II reaches 17ms via pixel binning and line skipping during 4k recording. It is a full width readout, but very far from a full sensor readout. This is a bit like saying your set the world record for the 1500m when you only ran one lap around the track. If the M6 II was doing full sensor readout like the competition, the rolling shutter would be somewhere in the high 30's.

Switching from video to the 18mp RAW burst mode, your rolling shutter is in the mid 20 something millisecond range. When shooting regular photos with electronic shutter, you are now at 46ms. This is similar to the Sony cameras you like to complain about and far from class leading.

Regardless of all of the caveats with the M6 II, the Fuji X-T3 beats it with a 16ms rating while doing oversampled full sensor readout 4k video. That is class leading.
Source? Doesn't the X-T30 share the same sensor as the X-T3?
Doesn't the M50 share the same sensor with the M100.
Why would they have a different rating?
Different processors.
Oh wait, that 16ms is dependent on crop mode, that's right... That's "cheating" too... Except, who wants to use crop mode 100% of the time? Well, not me anyways.
What on earth are you talking about? The X-T3 does not have a crop when shooting 4k. There is only a 1.18X crop when shooting at 4k60p. Again, there is only a crop when shooting at 60p.
And the 17ms (not 16ms) is actually from the cropped 60p mode. EOSHD
Yes, that is correct, but that is not the mode with the lowest rolling shutter. The EOSHD article was focused solely on 60p and how it compares with the Panasonic GH5 also shooting 60p.
Anyway. An idiotic discussion. As the numbers are not from the same source, so the cameras can not be directly compared. The M6 II can very well be the class leader. And actually I thought the X-T3 was in a different price class.
Last time we had this conversation, your source pointed to 16ms being dependent on crop-mode, if my memory serves me.
Your memory is failing
That's a worse "cheat" than what Canon's doing here. Although said "cheat" is useful for certain situations. The 90D has a crop mode in 4k (which the M6 II doesn't have...), which would be nice to have the option on the M6 Mark II when you subject is farther away... Maybe we'll get it alongside the 24P firmware update? Doubt it. Canon's not that nice.

Canon made the right choice IMO with "cheating" to get their 17ms rolling shutter. Perhaps Fuji should cheat too so they can match the 17ms, without cropping :) If you gave me a X-T3 and it had a 2.8k mode with 17ms rolling shutter and 4k mode with 23ms rolling shutter, I'd pick the 2.8k-17ms mode for most things and the 4k-23ms mode for things more detailed (macro, foliage, etc). Best of both worlds. But note which I'm picking more often... Options are good and I think the course Canon took was the right one for most folks as if you look at the rolling shutter of say a A6400, even at 30P (31ms), it's quite noticeable.
Are you done with your nonsense "cheating" rant? Since you can't seem to remember, I will say it again... The X-T3 has a 16ms rolling shutter while shooting 4k24/25/30p with downsampled full sensor readout, zero crop, and 4:2:0 10-bit 400 Mbps h.265 internal recording. the 16ms rating comes from Fuji, but Cinema5D's own testing measured 9ms when shooting 4k25p.
 
Like you my PP scheme will probably be DPP→TIFF→LR library→LR output jpeg. I use Display P3 color for jpegs for my display devices. I'm new to DPP and need to explore its capability more. LR is 2nd nature to me by now.

I've not found the G1X3 AF to be in any way slow, especially compared to the original G1X I had before. I rarely use it for subjects where AF speed is critical, I have other cameras with longer lenses (like the M) for that. Its wonderful as a walk around camera and supplement to another camera that has a long or macro or ??? lens on it. As I said in another thread, each of my cameras has its uses.
 
I personally prefer the upper LR conversion in every regard. ...
Thats the problem with choices! :) Now I'll have to process every image both ways to see which I prefer most.

This gives me an idea, since I'm mostly using the DPP defaults I could probably get nearly the same results from in-camera jpegs. If I shoot CRAW + JPEG I'd get the comparison without having to mess with DPP.
 
Like you my PP scheme will probably be DPP→TIFF→LR library→LR output jpeg. I use Display P3 color for jpegs for my display devices. I'm new to DPP and need to explore its capability more. LR is 2nd nature to me by now.

I've not found the G1X3 AF to be in any way slow, especially compared to the original G1X I had before. I rarely use it for subjects where AF speed is critical, I have other cameras with longer lenses (like the M) for that. Its wonderful as a walk around camera and supplement to another camera that has a long or macro or ??? lens on it. As I said in another thread, each of my cameras has its uses.
Don't hear what I'm not saying; the G1X III is perhaps one of the best, if not best, point and shoots ever made. Old sensor and digic tech, slow lens or not. Fantastic lens, form factor, handling and video with the fully articulating screen, lens, ND-filter and DPAF.

It's weakness is in my case, chasing young kids can be a challenge for it's AF. Also it's a fixed lens so I can't mount anything faster for a prim and proper portrait, or snapshot as Nnowak calls them.

Truth told if you use a Color match in LR, it's decent. Without it? Ugh. I haven't touched LR in, 2 months now? Maybe they "fixed" that. Ahem, did what I did and adapted the M50 profile probably if anything...
 
Excellent review. My only major disagreement is with the portrait score. I give it 5/5 for that. I much prefer primes over zooms for portraits, and the Sigma 56 is simply a stellar portrait prime for APS-C. The 32 and 22 are also good for portraits (depending on the style). The combination of the excellent eye AF of the M6II and the available fast primes (for longer working distance, the adapted 85 F1.8 works really well) makes the M6II an excellent portrait camera.
Yes, I’d have to give it at least 4.5/5 for portraits. The Eye AF is simply beyond marvelous, and the Siggy 56 is a stellar lens for M. So much so that I sold my 50 STM and 60 Macro, and hardly ever use my 40 or even my 85 any more!

The only reason I don’t give it a 5/5 is that you can still get slightly more background blur with FF.

R2
Understand, that the EOS M system does not exist in a vacuum, and both comparing it against it's peers (Fuji X and Sony E mounts) and even now FF offerings due to price (Eos RP with say a EF 85mm f/1.8 adapted) and these reviews go on Amazon, not just our little echo chamber of folks wanting confirmation bias.

Pictures say a thousand words.

The reality is a Fuji X-T3 or A6600 should get 4/5 and a EOS R and A7 III should get 5/5 for portraits in the grand context of general cameras, especially when you start looking at price and peers and what someone will logically shoot. Even a used 6D with 85mm f/1.8 is arguably better at portraits due to the sheer glass alone.

Now, is the M6 Mark II just "average" because I gave it 3/5? No, it's excellent. But then again so is your smartphone at that now (ouch). Canon at this junction, needs to step up their game if they want 4/5 or 5/5 for portraits in this category with the M. I fear they won't truth told and that's okay. A camera that does pretty darn good in portraits, and stellar in everything else, is nothing to poke an eye with a sharp stick with. I can't say the same about other cameras, especially for the bulk and price which is once again, why I own an M6 Mark II. But, I also own an R and RF 28-70 f/2L for "party duty" and special events, bokeh, and extreme low light still as a result.
I've been trying to understand what you think you're showing with these pictures. I hope I'm wrong, but all I can think of is that you're saying that the M6II, with currently available lenses, can't get as shallow DOF as can the R with currently available lenses, unless you use something as unwieldy as a manual focus 50 F1.2. That's not it, is it?
With native offerings, you either have to pick something a bit too long (Sigma), something manual focus (the Rokinon), something too short (EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM) or adapt. Focal lengths are a big deal with portraiture, this is just addressing the standard head and shoulders prime issue. Adapting is an option, but now the M system isn't so small and light anymore, or potentially cheap depending what you adapt.

Then there is the lack of fast zoom, which is what the 28mm picture is saying. You can't get that with a EF-M 15-45 or 18-150, they both start at f/3.5 which on a crop, is f/5.6. Sigma does make a 16mm f/1.4, but, now you're doing lens swaps, this was an "in the moment" shot where you zoom out fast, compose and drop the hammer on the shutter, not stop, swap a lens where I would've missed this shot. The EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM could've, but I've shot it adapted, it's unwieldy mounted on the M6. It's out too in my book.

The EF 85mm picture is saying hey, for about a grand, an RP and 85mm f/1.8 adapted can do the job, even though I did it with an R.
A few years ago, photographers who moved from a compact point-and-shoot to a DSLR would be very impressed by their sudden ability to blur backgrounds. The same now goes for cellphone photographers (though some of them just do that with software on their phones now). They would notice that portraits, especially, would have more impact when the subject stood out from the background. Some would then think that, because subject separation was a good thing, more of it would be better, with no limit. I remember a photographer on one of these forums who spent a year or so in search of ever thinner depth of field. When he got the 85 F1.2L, he posted a bunch of head and shoulders portraits taken with that lens wide open. One eye was in focus, sometimes the eyeball, sometimes the eye lash, never both, and never both eyes. As portraits, they were truly horrendous. The point is that shallow depth of field is a photographic effect, like any other, that has to be used to the appropriate degree. I have never seen a head and shoulders portrait at 85 F1.2 that wouldn't have been better at F2 or even F2.8. Likewise, environmental portraits, as the name suggests, incorporate elements of the environment. The amount of appropriate subject separation therefore depends on how recognizable you want the environment to be. Your 28 F2 shot is very nice. That shot with the M6II using the Sigma 16 at F1.4 would have been equally nice, if not nicer. The depth of field would have been slightly more (not a whole lot), but that wouldn't have taken away from the shot. In fact, it would probably have improved it (the fountain itself would have been more in focus).

As I said, I hope I misinterpreted your point. You seem to have a fair bit of photographic experience, so I would have thought that you wouldn't still be taking the simple-minded view that less depth of field is necessarily better for portraits. As for what you say about Fuji and Sony APS-C, I have no idea why you think they should score 4/5 for portraits, but the M6II 3/5. Which lenses on the Fuji or Sony are better for portraits than the 56 F1.4, 32 F1.4, or 16 F1.4 on the Canon? And this is even granting the highly questionable assumption that the score for the camera is determined by the lenses.
The Fuji and Sony have adept AF systems for eye/face-detection and better native glass (for portraiture). The Fuji in particular does good skintones too, without post processing needed.

I'm saying, 7/10 (because you can give negative points). That's pretty good, but not class leading in this department.

Can you honestly say the M6 mark II with a Sigma 56 and an EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM adapted is a better option than a X-T30 with a 56mm f/1.2 and 16-55 f/2.8,
No, but it's equally good.
or, an A6400 with Sigma 56 (now a true 85mm)
Here you go again with your fixation with the exact 85mm FF equivalent FOV. There's nothing special about 85 as opposed to 90 on full frame. It's just an historical accident that 85 was a popular focal length.
100mm and 105mm have also been extremely popular portrait focal lengths that have been considered interchangeable with 85mm. Personally, I preferred the 100mm f/2.0 over the 85mm f/1.8 when I was shooting with Canon full frame. The notion that exactly 85mm is the only appropriate focal length for portraits is ridiculous.
I chose 100 L on FF with a 1 foot mfd and 4 stop IS

the problem with the 56 siggy on m is ss 1/60 handheld
Well, I would never shoot a portrait at a lower speed than that anyway. People move, even when they're trying not to. I consider 1/100 pretty much the minimum acceptable speed for people shots. IS is useful for a lot of things, but pretty much irrelevant for portraits, unless it's a portrait of a corpse.
 
So far my M6II won't replace my G1XIII. There is just no native M lens to compete with the G1X' lens. OTOH the two cameras complement each other very well. For hiking I use the G1X with the M + 55-250 or 70-300 IS II as a two camera kit. I keep 11-22 and 28 macro in my pack. Less than 4 lbs with 55-250. Instant access to 24-400 mm (35 equiv) with no lens changes. RLight's lizard image (2nd to the last) with the 70-300 shows how capable this combo is.

My gripe with the M6II is that you really have to use DPP to get the most out of it. I'm pretty committed to and happy with the Lightroom library organization and editing capability up to the 5D4, 80D, G1XIII generation. DPP throws a monkey wrench into this since it edits and makes changes a camera's raw file. LR doesn't like that a bit. So the M6II lives in a different post processing universe from my other cameras. DLO and ALO are impressive though and the M6II resolution demands these.

Here are two variations of an image. The first PPd in LR the 2nd in DPP. The color difference is obvious but you'll have to view 100% to see the sharpness difference. The DPP version does introduce some sharpening artifacts visible at 100% but produces the more pleasing image. IMHO.

Lightroom Post Processing.
Lightroom Post Processing.

Canon DPP Post Processing.
Canon DPP Post Processing.
I prefer the LR version too. The DPP version looks like what you get if you change the LR sharpening to deconvolution, by increasing the detail slider (in the sharpening module) towards 100. What I really like about LR is the extreme flexibility. There are so many settings that can be tweaked in many different ways. I think that most people who dismiss LR, or say that DPP gives much better results, haven't explored anything approaching the full potential of LR. I'm talking about the latest version, with subscription access. If you're using an older standalone version, you miss out on a lot of the latest great developments.

--
As the length of a thread approaches 150, the probability that someone will make the obvious "it's not the camera, it's the photographer" remark approaches 1.
Alastair
Equipment in profile
 
Excellent review. My only major disagreement is with the portrait score. I give it 5/5 for that. I much prefer primes over zooms for portraits, and the Sigma 56 is simply a stellar portrait prime for APS-C. The 32 and 22 are also good for portraits (depending on the style). The combination of the excellent eye AF of the M6II and the available fast primes (for longer working distance, the adapted 85 F1.8 works really well) makes the M6II an excellent portrait camera.
Yes, I’d have to give it at least 4.5/5 for portraits. The Eye AF is simply beyond marvelous, and the Siggy 56 is a stellar lens for M. So much so that I sold my 50 STM and 60 Macro, and hardly ever use my 40 or even my 85 any more!

The only reason I don’t give it a 5/5 is that you can still get slightly more background blur with FF.

R2
Understand, that the EOS M system does not exist in a vacuum, and both comparing it against it's peers (Fuji X and Sony E mounts) and even now FF offerings due to price (Eos RP with say a EF 85mm f/1.8 adapted) and these reviews go on Amazon, not just our little echo chamber of folks wanting confirmation bias.

Pictures say a thousand words.

The reality is a Fuji X-T3 or A6600 should get 4/5 and a EOS R and A7 III should get 5/5 for portraits in the grand context of general cameras, especially when you start looking at price and peers and what someone will logically shoot. Even a used 6D with 85mm f/1.8 is arguably better at portraits due to the sheer glass alone.

Now, is the M6 Mark II just "average" because I gave it 3/5? No, it's excellent. But then again so is your smartphone at that now (ouch). Canon at this junction, needs to step up their game if they want 4/5 or 5/5 for portraits in this category with the M. I fear they won't truth told and that's okay. A camera that does pretty darn good in portraits, and stellar in everything else, is nothing to poke an eye with a sharp stick with. I can't say the same about other cameras, especially for the bulk and price which is once again, why I own an M6 Mark II. But, I also own an R and RF 28-70 f/2L for "party duty" and special events, bokeh, and extreme low light still as a result.
I've been trying to understand what you think you're showing with these pictures. I hope I'm wrong, but all I can think of is that you're saying that the M6II, with currently available lenses, can't get as shallow DOF as can the R with currently available lenses, unless you use something as unwieldy as a manual focus 50 F1.2. That's not it, is it?
With native offerings, you either have to pick something a bit too long (Sigma), something manual focus (the Rokinon), something too short (EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM) or adapt. Focal lengths are a big deal with portraiture, this is just addressing the standard head and shoulders prime issue. Adapting is an option, but now the M system isn't so small and light anymore, or potentially cheap depending what you adapt.

Then there is the lack of fast zoom, which is what the 28mm picture is saying. You can't get that with a EF-M 15-45 or 18-150, they both start at f/3.5 which on a crop, is f/5.6. Sigma does make a 16mm f/1.4, but, now you're doing lens swaps, this was an "in the moment" shot where you zoom out fast, compose and drop the hammer on the shutter, not stop, swap a lens where I would've missed this shot. The EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM could've, but I've shot it adapted, it's unwieldy mounted on the M6. It's out too in my book.

The EF 85mm picture is saying hey, for about a grand, an RP and 85mm f/1.8 adapted can do the job, even though I did it with an R.
A few years ago, photographers who moved from a compact point-and-shoot to a DSLR would be very impressed by their sudden ability to blur backgrounds. The same now goes for cellphone photographers (though some of them just do that with software on their phones now). They would notice that portraits, especially, would have more impact when the subject stood out from the background. Some would then think that, because subject separation was a good thing, more of it would be better, with no limit. I remember a photographer on one of these forums who spent a year or so in search of ever thinner depth of field. When he got the 85 F1.2L, he posted a bunch of head and shoulders portraits taken with that lens wide open. One eye was in focus, sometimes the eyeball, sometimes the eye lash, never both, and never both eyes. As portraits, they were truly horrendous. The point is that shallow depth of field is a photographic effect, like any other, that has to be used to the appropriate degree. I have never seen a head and shoulders portrait at 85 F1.2 that wouldn't have been better at F2 or even F2.8. Likewise, environmental portraits, as the name suggests, incorporate elements of the environment. The amount of appropriate subject separation therefore depends on how recognizable you want the environment to be. Your 28 F2 shot is very nice. That shot with the M6II using the Sigma 16 at F1.4 would have been equally nice, if not nicer. The depth of field would have been slightly more (not a whole lot), but that wouldn't have taken away from the shot. In fact, it would probably have improved it (the fountain itself would have been more in focus).

As I said, I hope I misinterpreted your point. You seem to have a fair bit of photographic experience, so I would have thought that you wouldn't still be taking the simple-minded view that less depth of field is necessarily better for portraits. As for what you say about Fuji and Sony APS-C, I have no idea why you think they should score 4/5 for portraits, but the M6II 3/5. Which lenses on the Fuji or Sony are better for portraits than the 56 F1.4, 32 F1.4, or 16 F1.4 on the Canon? And this is even granting the highly questionable assumption that the score for the camera is determined by the lenses.
The Fuji and Sony have adept AF systems for eye/face-detection and better native glass (for portraiture). The Fuji in particular does good skintones too, without post processing needed.

I'm saying, 7/10 (because you can give negative points). That's pretty good, but not class leading in this department.

Can you honestly say the M6 mark II with a Sigma 56 and an EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM adapted is a better option than a X-T30 with a 56mm f/1.2 and 16-55 f/2.8,
No, but it's equally good.
or, an A6400 with Sigma 56 (now a true 85mm)
Here you go again with your fixation with the exact 85mm FF equivalent FOV. There's nothing special about 85 as opposed to 90 on full frame. It's just an historical accident that 85 was a popular focal length.
100mm and 105mm have also been extremely popular portrait focal lengths that have been considered interchangeable with 85mm. Personally, I preferred the 100mm f/2.0 over the 85mm f/1.8 when I was shooting with Canon full frame. The notion that exactly 85mm is the only appropriate focal length for portraits is ridiculous.
I chose 100 L on FF with a 1 foot mfd and 4 stop IS

the problem with the 56 siggy on m is ss 1/60 handheld
Well, I would never shoot a portrait at a lower speed than that anyway. People move, even when they're trying not to. I consider 1/100 pretty much the minimum acceptable speed for people shots. IS is useful for a lot of things, but pretty much irrelevant for portraits, unless it's a portrait of a corpse.
not true, ss 1/60 often used in low light low motion
 
Didn't think you were criticizing it. Just doesn't fit your use case as much. Its all good.

And, LR has not come up with camera matching color schemes yet. I check with each release.
 
I've been very happy with LR since I started using it back in my original 7D days. I like the non-destructive library and all the export options for a file. And yes the options, I do a lot of landscapes and the dehaze function used judiciously can work wonders. Many of our recent destinations like SE Alaska and the Serengeti have been hazy. I've gone back and reworked a lot of old images with positive affect as well.

The only real issue is color with the .CR3 files. Adobe has said they're working on it.

I'm glad to hear some preferences for the LR file. :)
 
Excellent review. My only major disagreement is with the portrait score. I give it 5/5 for that. I much prefer primes over zooms for portraits, and the Sigma 56 is simply a stellar portrait prime for APS-C. The 32 and 22 are also good for portraits (depending on the style). The combination of the excellent eye AF of the M6II and the available fast primes (for longer working distance, the adapted 85 F1.8 works really well) makes the M6II an excellent portrait camera.
I’ll agree to disagree here; my main complaint with the Sigma 56 is that it’s 90mm effective when cropped. Had Sigma done a EF-M specific offering, not adapt their existing homework and made a 52mm making an 85mm effective, I’d own one. Canon and or Sigma are free to fix that problem as they are to fix the lack of a native near f/2.8 zoom of some kind. Right now they’re both lacking. The Sigma 56 is like shooting the EF 35 f/2 is usm adapted: too tight to be a nominal focal length which drives me nuts. It’s a good option absolutely, both adapting the 35mm or using the Sigma 56, but for the 35mm you can do the native 32mm both reducing the bulk (no adapter) and having a happy true 50mm. Right now with the Siggy 56, it’s a compromise.

Contrast this to say the Sigma 56 on a Sony (1.5x crop making it 85mm) or the Fuji 56 also being 1.5x, either the Fuji 16-55 f/2.8 or now Sony 16-55 f/2.8... That’s how I end up giving it 3 stars.
So the difference between a FF equivalent FOV of 85 and 90 is why you give the M6II 3 instead of 5 stars for portrait? It seems to me that you are obsessing over numbers here. I suspect that, had the Sigma been branded 52mm, instead of 56mm, you would never have noticed. For many portraits, I find anything from 80-140 (FF equivalent) to be just fine. You do realize that, for most portraits, backing up less than half a step will give you the same framing on a 56 as on a 52?
Shooting kids indoors flexibility is important. Your photography is different from Rlights photography.

That't why i love the R + 50mm f/1.4 so much: i have all the flexibility i need while i can still get all the back ground separation i need (as long as I'm shooting at home indoors).

It's only outdoors i want longer focal lengths sometimes where i have enough space to benefit from a bit of compression .
 
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Excellent review. My only major disagreement is with the portrait score. I give it 5/5 for that. I much prefer primes over zooms for portraits, and the Sigma 56 is simply a stellar portrait prime for APS-C. The 32 and 22 are also good for portraits (depending on the style). The combination of the excellent eye AF of the M6II and the available fast primes (for longer working distance, the adapted 85 F1.8 works really well) makes the M6II an excellent portrait camera.
Yes, I’d have to give it at least 4.5/5 for portraits. The Eye AF is simply beyond marvelous, and the Siggy 56 is a stellar lens for M. So much so that I sold my 50 STM and 60 Macro, and hardly ever use my 40 or even my 85 any more!

The only reason I don’t give it a 5/5 is that you can still get slightly more background blur with FF.

R2
Understand, that the EOS M system does not exist in a vacuum, and both comparing it against it's peers (Fuji X and Sony E mounts) and even now FF offerings due to price (Eos RP with say a EF 85mm f/1.8 adapted) and these reviews go on Amazon, not just our little echo chamber of folks wanting confirmation bias.

Pictures say a thousand words.

The reality is a Fuji X-T3 or A6600 should get 4/5 and a EOS R and A7 III should get 5/5 for portraits in the grand context of general cameras, especially when you start looking at price and peers and what someone will logically shoot. Even a used 6D with 85mm f/1.8 is arguably better at portraits due to the sheer glass alone.

Now, is the M6 Mark II just "average" because I gave it 3/5? No, it's excellent. But then again so is your smartphone at that now (ouch). Canon at this junction, needs to step up their game if they want 4/5 or 5/5 for portraits in this category with the M. I fear they won't truth told and that's okay. A camera that does pretty darn good in portraits, and stellar in everything else, is nothing to poke an eye with a sharp stick with. I can't say the same about other cameras, especially for the bulk and price which is once again, why I own an M6 Mark II. But, I also own an R and RF 28-70 f/2L for "party duty" and special events, bokeh, and extreme low light still as a result.
I've been trying to understand what you think you're showing with these pictures. I hope I'm wrong, but all I can think of is that you're saying that the M6II, with currently available lenses, can't get as shallow DOF as can the R with currently available lenses, unless you use something as unwieldy as a manual focus 50 F1.2. That's not it, is it?
With native offerings, you either have to pick something a bit too long (Sigma), something manual focus (the Rokinon), something too short (EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM) or adapt. Focal lengths are a big deal with portraiture, this is just addressing the standard head and shoulders prime issue. Adapting is an option, but now the M system isn't so small and light anymore, or potentially cheap depending what you adapt.

Then there is the lack of fast zoom, which is what the 28mm picture is saying. You can't get that with a EF-M 15-45 or 18-150, they both start at f/3.5 which on a crop, is f/5.6. Sigma does make a 16mm f/1.4, but, now you're doing lens swaps, this was an "in the moment" shot where you zoom out fast, compose and drop the hammer on the shutter, not stop, swap a lens where I would've missed this shot. The EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM could've, but I've shot it adapted, it's unwieldy mounted on the M6. It's out too in my book.

The EF 85mm picture is saying hey, for about a grand, an RP and 85mm f/1.8 adapted can do the job, even though I did it with an R.
A few years ago, photographers who moved from a compact point-and-shoot to a DSLR would be very impressed by their sudden ability to blur backgrounds. The same now goes for cellphone photographers (though some of them just do that with software on their phones now). They would notice that portraits, especially, would have more impact when the subject stood out from the background. Some would then think that, because subject separation was a good thing, more of it would be better, with no limit. I remember a photographer on one of these forums who spent a year or so in search of ever thinner depth of field. When he got the 85 F1.2L, he posted a bunch of head and shoulders portraits taken with that lens wide open. One eye was in focus, sometimes the eyeball, sometimes the eye lash, never both, and never both eyes. As portraits, they were truly horrendous. The point is that shallow depth of field is a photographic effect, like any other, that has to be used to the appropriate degree. I have never seen a head and shoulders portrait at 85 F1.2 that wouldn't have been better at F2 or even F2.8. Likewise, environmental portraits, as the name suggests, incorporate elements of the environment. The amount of appropriate subject separation therefore depends on how recognizable you want the environment to be. Your 28 F2 shot is very nice. That shot with the M6II using the Sigma 16 at F1.4 would have been equally nice, if not nicer. The depth of field would have been slightly more (not a whole lot), but that wouldn't have taken away from the shot. In fact, it would probably have improved it (the fountain itself would have been more in focus).

As I said, I hope I misinterpreted your point. You seem to have a fair bit of photographic experience, so I would have thought that you wouldn't still be taking the simple-minded view that less depth of field is necessarily better for portraits. As for what you say about Fuji and Sony APS-C, I have no idea why you think they should score 4/5 for portraits, but the M6II 3/5. Which lenses on the Fuji or Sony are better for portraits than the 56 F1.4, 32 F1.4, or 16 F1.4 on the Canon? And this is even granting the highly questionable assumption that the score for the camera is determined by the lenses.
The Fuji and Sony have adept AF systems for eye/face-detection and better native glass (for portraiture). The Fuji in particular does good skintones too, without post processing needed.

I'm saying, 7/10 (because you can give negative points). That's pretty good, but not class leading in this department.

Can you honestly say the M6 mark II with a Sigma 56 and an EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM adapted is a better option than a X-T30 with a 56mm f/1.2 and 16-55 f/2.8,
No, but it's equally good.
or, an A6400 with Sigma 56 (now a true 85mm)
Here you go again with your fixation with the exact 85mm FF equivalent FOV. There's nothing special about 85 as opposed to 90 on full frame. It's just an historical accident that 85 was a popular focal length.
100mm and 105mm have also been extremely popular portrait focal lengths that have been considered interchangeable with 85mm. Personally, I preferred the 100mm f/2.0 over the 85mm f/1.8 when I was shooting with Canon full frame. The notion that exactly 85mm is the only appropriate focal length for portraits is ridiculous.
I chose 100 L on FF with a 1 foot mfd and 4 stop IS

the problem with the 56 siggy on m is ss 1/60 handheld
Well, I would never shoot a portrait at a lower speed than that anyway. People move, even when they're trying not to. I consider 1/100 pretty much the minimum acceptable speed for people shots. IS is useful for a lot of things, but pretty much irrelevant for portraits, unless it's a portrait of a corpse.
not true, ss 1/60 often used in low light low motion
You can get away with 1/60 if the subject is far away, or you're not looking closely at the image. I admit I've gotten away with 1/60 on the 22 a few times, with a very calm subject, out of pure luck. But I would always be nervous about shooting people at that low a speed. IS or no IS, these days I always select at least 1/100 for people shots. Makes for better peace of mind, which is why the lack of IS on the 56 doesn't bother me. It would probably also be bigger and more expensive, if it had IS.

--
As the length of a thread approaches 150, the probability that someone will make the obvious "it's not the camera, it's the photographer" remark approaches 1.
Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile
 
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Excellent review. My only major disagreement is with the portrait score. I give it 5/5 for that. I much prefer primes over zooms for portraits, and the Sigma 56 is simply a stellar portrait prime for APS-C. The 32 and 22 are also good for portraits (depending on the style). The combination of the excellent eye AF of the M6II and the available fast primes (for longer working distance, the adapted 85 F1.8 works really well) makes the M6II an excellent portrait camera.
I’ll agree to disagree here; my main complaint with the Sigma 56 is that it’s 90mm effective when cropped. Had Sigma done a EF-M specific offering, not adapt their existing homework and made a 52mm making an 85mm effective, I’d own one. Canon and or Sigma are free to fix that problem as they are to fix the lack of a native near f/2.8 zoom of some kind. Right now they’re both lacking. The Sigma 56 is like shooting the EF 35 f/2 is usm adapted: too tight to be a nominal focal length which drives me nuts. It’s a good option absolutely, both adapting the 35mm or using the Sigma 56, but for the 35mm you can do the native 32mm both reducing the bulk (no adapter) and having a happy true 50mm. Right now with the Siggy 56, it’s a compromise.

Contrast this to say the Sigma 56 on a Sony (1.5x crop making it 85mm) or the Fuji 56 also being 1.5x, either the Fuji 16-55 f/2.8 or now Sony 16-55 f/2.8... That’s how I end up giving it 3 stars.
So the difference between a FF equivalent FOV of 85 and 90 is why you give the M6II 3 instead of 5 stars for portrait? It seems to me that you are obsessing over numbers here. I suspect that, had the Sigma been branded 52mm, instead of 56mm, you would never have noticed. For many portraits, I find anything from 80-140 (FF equivalent) to be just fine. You do realize that, for most portraits, backing up less than half a step will give you the same framing on a 56 as on a 52?
Shooting kids indoors flexibility is important. Your photography is different from Rlights photography.

That't why i love the R + 50mm f/1.4 so much: i have all the flexibility i need while i can still get all the back ground separation i need (as long as I'm shooting at home indoors).

It's only outdoors i want longer focal lengths sometimes where i have enough space to benefit from a bit of compression .
Are you saying that a FF equivalent of 85mm is for indoors and 90mm is for outdoors ? 😉
 
Again, you are confusing portraits and snapshots. If I am shooting "portraits" in a restaurant, I would rent out the entire restaurant during off hours and set up a complete suite of lighting. You choose your focal length to give the desired "look" for your portrait, not based on the dimensions of some arbitrary room.
If i would have to teach my kids posing for portraits made by you i am afraid i will never capture any spontaneous emotion on there faces ever again. No gear needed any more. A bit drastic way to get rid of gas..... ;)
 
Excellent review. My only major disagreement is with the portrait score. I give it 5/5 for that. I much prefer primes over zooms for portraits, and the Sigma 56 is simply a stellar portrait prime for APS-C. The 32 and 22 are also good for portraits (depending on the style). The combination of the excellent eye AF of the M6II and the available fast primes (for longer working distance, the adapted 85 F1.8 works really well) makes the M6II an excellent portrait camera.
Yes, I’d have to give it at least 4.5/5 for portraits. The Eye AF is simply beyond marvelous, and the Siggy 56 is a stellar lens for M. So much so that I sold my 50 STM and 60 Macro, and hardly ever use my 40 or even my 85 any more!

The only reason I don’t give it a 5/5 is that you can still get slightly more background blur with FF.

R2
Understand, that the EOS M system does not exist in a vacuum, and both comparing it against it's peers (Fuji X and Sony E mounts) and even now FF offerings due to price (Eos RP with say a EF 85mm f/1.8 adapted) and these reviews go on Amazon, not just our little echo chamber of folks wanting confirmation bias.

Pictures say a thousand words.

The reality is a Fuji X-T3 or A6600 should get 4/5 and a EOS R and A7 III should get 5/5 for portraits in the grand context of general cameras, especially when you start looking at price and peers and what someone will logically shoot. Even a used 6D with 85mm f/1.8 is arguably better at portraits due to the sheer glass alone.

Now, is the M6 Mark II just "average" because I gave it 3/5? No, it's excellent. But then again so is your smartphone at that now (ouch). Canon at this junction, needs to step up their game if they want 4/5 or 5/5 for portraits in this category with the M. I fear they won't truth told and that's okay. A camera that does pretty darn good in portraits, and stellar in everything else, is nothing to poke an eye with a sharp stick with. I can't say the same about other cameras, especially for the bulk and price which is once again, why I own an M6 Mark II. But, I also own an R and RF 28-70 f/2L for "party duty" and special events, bokeh, and extreme low light still as a result.
I've been trying to understand what you think you're showing with these pictures. I hope I'm wrong, but all I can think of is that you're saying that the M6II, with currently available lenses, can't get as shallow DOF as can the R with currently available lenses, unless you use something as unwieldy as a manual focus 50 F1.2. That's not it, is it?
With native offerings, you either have to pick something a bit too long (Sigma), something manual focus (the Rokinon), something too short (EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM) or adapt. Focal lengths are a big deal with portraiture, this is just addressing the standard head and shoulders prime issue. Adapting is an option, but now the M system isn't so small and light anymore, or potentially cheap depending what you adapt.

Then there is the lack of fast zoom, which is what the 28mm picture is saying. You can't get that with a EF-M 15-45 or 18-150, they both start at f/3.5 which on a crop, is f/5.6. Sigma does make a 16mm f/1.4, but, now you're doing lens swaps, this was an "in the moment" shot where you zoom out fast, compose and drop the hammer on the shutter, not stop, swap a lens where I would've missed this shot. The EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM could've, but I've shot it adapted, it's unwieldy mounted on the M6. It's out too in my book.

The EF 85mm picture is saying hey, for about a grand, an RP and 85mm f/1.8 adapted can do the job, even though I did it with an R.
A few years ago, photographers who moved from a compact point-and-shoot to a DSLR would be very impressed by their sudden ability to blur backgrounds. The same now goes for cellphone photographers (though some of them just do that with software on their phones now). They would notice that portraits, especially, would have more impact when the subject stood out from the background. Some would then think that, because subject separation was a good thing, more of it would be better, with no limit. I remember a photographer on one of these forums who spent a year or so in search of ever thinner depth of field. When he got the 85 F1.2L, he posted a bunch of head and shoulders portraits taken with that lens wide open. One eye was in focus, sometimes the eyeball, sometimes the eye lash, never both, and never both eyes. As portraits, they were truly horrendous. The point is that shallow depth of field is a photographic effect, like any other, that has to be used to the appropriate degree. I have never seen a head and shoulders portrait at 85 F1.2 that wouldn't have been better at F2 or even F2.8. Likewise, environmental portraits, as the name suggests, incorporate elements of the environment. The amount of appropriate subject separation therefore depends on how recognizable you want the environment to be. Your 28 F2 shot is very nice. That shot with the M6II using the Sigma 16 at F1.4 would have been equally nice, if not nicer. The depth of field would have been slightly more (not a whole lot), but that wouldn't have taken away from the shot. In fact, it would probably have improved it (the fountain itself would have been more in focus).

As I said, I hope I misinterpreted your point. You seem to have a fair bit of photographic experience, so I would have thought that you wouldn't still be taking the simple-minded view that less depth of field is necessarily better for portraits. As for what you say about Fuji and Sony APS-C, I have no idea why you think they should score 4/5 for portraits, but the M6II 3/5. Which lenses on the Fuji or Sony are better for portraits than the 56 F1.4, 32 F1.4, or 16 F1.4 on the Canon? And this is even granting the highly questionable assumption that the score for the camera is determined by the lenses.
The Fuji and Sony have adept AF systems for eye/face-detection and better native glass (for portraiture). The Fuji in particular does good skintones too, without post processing needed.

I'm saying, 7/10 (because you can give negative points). That's pretty good, but not class leading in this department.

Can you honestly say the M6 mark II with a Sigma 56 and an EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM adapted is a better option than a X-T30 with a 56mm f/1.2 and 16-55 f/2.8,
No, but it's equally good.
or, an A6400 with Sigma 56 (now a true 85mm)
Here you go again with your fixation with the exact 85mm FF equivalent FOV. There's nothing special about 85 as opposed to 90 on full frame. It's just an historical accident that 85 was a popular focal length.
100mm and 105mm have also been extremely popular portrait focal lengths that have been considered interchangeable with 85mm. Personally, I preferred the 100mm f/2.0 over the 85mm f/1.8 when I was shooting with Canon full frame. The notion that exactly 85mm is the only appropriate focal length for portraits is ridiculous.
I chose 100 L on FF with a 1 foot mfd and 4 stop IS

the problem with the 56 siggy on m is ss 1/60 handheld
Well, I would never shoot a portrait at a lower speed than that anyway. People move, even when they're trying not to. I consider 1/100 pretty much the minimum acceptable speed for people shots. IS is useful for a lot of things, but pretty much irrelevant for portraits, unless it's a portrait of a corpse.
not true, ss 1/60 often used in low light low motion
You can get away with 1/60 if the subject is far away, or you're not looking closely at the image. I admit I've gotten away with 1/60 on the 22 a few times, with a very calm subject, out of pure luck. But I would always be nervous about shooting people at that low a speed. IS or no IS, these days I always select at least 1/100 for people shots. Makes for better peace of mind, which is why the lack of IS on the 56 doesn't bother me. It would probably also be bigger and more expensive, if it had IS.
it is not as if Image stabilization didn't help at both ss 1/60 and ss 1/100

now if we're talking > ss 1/200 - I agree

an m5II with IBIS - and I'm in on the 56

but canon will not do it, they didn't make the 56 and thet'll tell users IBIS not needed for the 32
 
Excellent review. My only major disagreement is with the portrait score. I give it 5/5 for that. I much prefer primes over zooms for portraits, and the Sigma 56 is simply a stellar portrait prime for APS-C. The 32 and 22 are also good for portraits (depending on the style). The combination of the excellent eye AF of the M6II and the available fast primes (for longer working distance, the adapted 85 F1.8 works really well) makes the M6II an excellent portrait camera.
I’ll agree to disagree here; my main complaint with the Sigma 56 is that it’s 90mm effective when cropped. Had Sigma done a EF-M specific offering, not adapt their existing homework and made a 52mm making an 85mm effective, I’d own one. Canon and or Sigma are free to fix that problem as they are to fix the lack of a native near f/2.8 zoom of some kind. Right now they’re both lacking. The Sigma 56 is like shooting the EF 35 f/2 is usm adapted: too tight to be a nominal focal length which drives me nuts. It’s a good option absolutely, both adapting the 35mm or using the Sigma 56, but for the 35mm you can do the native 32mm both reducing the bulk (no adapter) and having a happy true 50mm. Right now with the Siggy 56, it’s a compromise.

Contrast this to say the Sigma 56 on a Sony (1.5x crop making it 85mm) or the Fuji 56 also being 1.5x, either the Fuji 16-55 f/2.8 or now Sony 16-55 f/2.8... That’s how I end up giving it 3 stars.
So the difference between a FF equivalent FOV of 85 and 90 is why you give the M6II 3 instead of 5 stars for portrait? It seems to me that you are obsessing over numbers here. I suspect that, had the Sigma been branded 52mm, instead of 56mm, you would never have noticed. For many portraits, I find anything from 80-140 (FF equivalent) to be just fine. You do realize that, for most portraits, backing up less than half a step will give you the same framing on a 56 as on a 52?
Shooting kids indoors flexibility is important. Your photography is different from Rlights photography.

That't why i love the R + 50mm f/1.4 so much: i have all the flexibility i need while i can still get all the back ground separation i need (as long as I'm shooting at home indoors).

It's only outdoors i want longer focal lengths sometimes where i have enough space to benefit from a bit of compression.
Are you saying that a FF equivalent of 85mm is for indoors and 90mm is for outdoors ? 😉
No I wasn't because - as you can read - I was talking about 50mm on full frame. This is considerably shorter than 90mm on full frame.
 

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