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The DSLR doesn't die, because it actually works!

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sportyaccordy said:
So in addition to having to pay the MILC premium for bodies/lenses, you have to also buy binoculars and a spotting scope?
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Have you ever used a good pair of binoculars or spotting scope? Superior to use compared any camera! Far nicer to actually observe animals, view landscapes etc.

That is why professionals and amateurs interested in wildlife and nature typically has those instead just a camera.
sportyaccordy said:
Most MILCs still have terrible battery life. A7III is the first MILC I didn't have to charge every day while travelling. And truthfully I'd still have to charge it every 2-3 days. A DSLR can rely on one battery for weeks of shooting no problem.
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Mirrorless offers more frames per minute of shooting time, but if you keep camera powered all the time without taking photos....
sportyaccordy said:
So MILC battery life is still def a big disadvantage for people who shoot a lot.
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Who does take lots of frames, mirrorless is superior. Like in 3 hours you can take 15000 frames, frame count that DSLR can't reach at all as it is frame limited instead time limited.

But if you look through viewfinder for hours and then take two frames per hour, then DSLR is superior.

So if you travel a lot and you spend in total 3 hour a day taking photos (actually taking photos), then mirrorless can be in disadvantage if you take less than 800-1500 in that time.
 
sportyaccordy said:
Tommi K1 said:
SiriusB said:
For my photography (mostly wide field astro and weather) the DSLR still has significant advantages. One of them is battery life. I typically shoot 1000+ photos on each shoot and it is just easier to not think about when the battery will be empty and needed to be replaced.
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DSLR battery lifetime is frame based, mirrorless is time based.

With DSLR you get X frames per battery, but you can keep camera powered for hours/days with little penalty to battery if you are not taking photos.

With mirrorless you get X hours per battery, you can keep camera powered those hours with little to no penalty of you are taking photos.

With mirrorless you look your watch, you sum the event time to how many batteries you need for constant power time.

A hockey game takes that 3x20min and middle periods, so you can shoot whole event work a single mirrorless battery as typically they offer 3-4 hours power time. And you can get thousands of frames with a single battery, basically your memory card is the limit for 3-4 hour period with one battery. A wedding of typical 4-7 hours you do with two batteries or two bodies. And again possible get thousands of frames.

That is nice thing with mirrorless that you know before that when battery will go empty as you have (depending model) the 3-4 hours without sleep mode.
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This is not a good argument for mirrorless. With DSLRs you literally don't have to think about battery life if you are shooting through the viewfinder, unless you are taking thousands of shots in a day, which an MILC can't do on a single charge anyway.
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A MILC can definitely do that.
sportyaccordy said:
You can like MILCs without having to pretend like they are perfect and have no disadvantages. Battery life continues to be a negative in the MILC column, even with the strides that have been made.
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FingerPainter said:
The lag that matters for the photographer to track a subject
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The lag that matters is that causes missing the moment sheet releasing the shutter.

Why even long time professionals in sports will predict the moment and shoot fast but short burst to capture possible moment. And when action keeps developing, shutter release button is kept pressed until action ends.

How many do you know who can take a defining moment with a single frame with 100% assurance when it happens, without taking wasted frames by predicting wrong?

Even then a best DSLR shutter release lag is about 58ms....
FingerPainter said:
is the lag between the light passing the flange and the light hitting the eye. With a 120Hz EVF that lag will be a minimum of 8.33 milliseconds. With an OVF that lag is on the order of 1/5,000,000th of a millisecond.
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Doesn't matter at all....

Even a judges in different sports needs to use a video replay to check the penalties or defining moments who was first etc etc... Because human eye is slow, the real problem is the human reaction delay and then comes the shutter release lag. And EVF lag is nothing as addition to those in mattering level.
 
fferreres said:
Would it be practical to put a fake battery to USB paired with one of the 30,000 mah pocket battery packs? It'd amount to 15+ battery charges. May cost $50 per camera or less.
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Only in time lapse photography where you leave camera running for whole day or days.

Otherwise, get the USB charger that you keep on bag/pocket and just swap the battery. The photographer shouldn't be in such critical moment that taking battery out and other in can ruin the whole session. And that is why you would then want a battery grip that allows you swap battery in grip while camera run at that moment from body battery until new battery is inserted to grip.

That grip allows you to run camera infinite until your batteries can't be recharged in time.
 
sportyaccordy said:
kiwi2 said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
the nice thing about a Dslr is that i can stand in a field for 2.5 days taking pictures of airplanes and not have to charge the battery once
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www.tethertools.com/product/case-relay-power-bundle/
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Seems like the answer to all of MILCs' problems is to spend more money to carry and deal with more stuff.
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More like most problems in mirrorless are from DSLR users inventing situations why mirrorless fails....
 
Tommi K1 said:
chlamchowder said:
digitallollygag said:
threw the lens said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
got my popcorn ready for this one, i am expecting 60fps to be mentioned more than once :D
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60fps could be useful. But it end-loads a lot on the user in culling rather than picking the moment. Are we to shoot in pairs now, a shooter and a culler?
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Mirrorless = shoot and cull

DSLR = spray and pray

Pick your poison 😀
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Apparently that's what the 'protect image' thing does. You use that to mark the images you want to keep, then run delete all.

I used to be like "why would I ever use this protect image button" until I saw people using it.
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That has amazed me in last 20 years that why doesn't people use it, but people don't either read manuals or they don't comprehend all what they read in manuals.

It was such amazing feature when I read D2x manual first time before taking it in use, after using only film. Like a mind blowing feature that you can shoot 8 fps (crop mode) and then just lock wanted images and run "Delete All" to clear all unwanted.

And that is part of workflow these days. You can use fastest sequence speed and then just lock the frames you want and after card is full or before import, run "delete all".

This was easy on Canon because Canon had so amazingly fast playback speed and large rear dial to quickly go through all frames and lock them.

Another thing that many doesn't use is the voice dictation feature, with Canon behind a direct button, so you press button and talk the information of photo like who is person in photo or their address etc. And then you can later name people in photos or send copy to them.
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What is the sequence of the equivalent in A7? I removed the delete confirmation and still manually do one by one. I also find annoying it resets to full view upon delete (zoom, wait, wait, wheel clockwise, up, up, left, wheel clock wise, up, left, left, wheel clockwise, delete, wait; repeat ad nauseam)
 
mamallama said:
Parallax error is virtually zero for distant objects. Human pointing control is more significant and that is for all viewfinders and moving objects.
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Yes it is.
mamallama said:
Commercial wireframe (some call them white frame when the optics are enclosed) finders are used successfully every day. They offer a better tracking view than the tunnel view of a OVF on a DSLR.
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You don't mean a reflex sights?

A wire frame is one option, but difference to reflex sight is that you get a framing instead AF point position like with reflex sight.
 
chlamchowder said:
fferreres said:
Would it be practical to put a fake battery to USB paired with one of the 30,000 mah pocket battery packs? It'd amount to 15+ battery charges. May cost $50 per camera or less.
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Once you do that, you're really cutting into the size/weight advantage mirrorless cameras usually enjoy. Such a large battery pack is not light (I have a 20,000 mah one) and is borderline not pocketable.

Also, I only have one because a cell phone battery won't last for more than a day. If my cell phone had the battery life of a DSLR, I would really like that.
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Your DSLR battery consumption is non existing as nothing really is operating in it until you take a exposure.

If you want same operations in DSLR than in smartphone, your DSLR would use its battery faster than smartphone.
 
threw the lens said:
We keep reading thinly disguised baiting- which I define as trolly- threads announcing the imminent death of the DSLR.
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Yet you are starting a thread that throws flames on the fire. I agree that starting an anti DSLR thread smacks of Trolling but you starting this thread might be as well.

I use Sony SLT cameras which actually are on the verge of death yet some people love to rub that fact in on the SONY SLT forum. It says something about the lack of character of the posters.

--
Tom
 
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Wu Jiaqiu said:
threw the lens said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
got my popcorn ready for this one, i am expecting 60fps to be mentioned more than once :D
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60fps could be useful. But it end-loads a lot on the user in culling rather than picking the moment. Are we to shoot in pairs now, a shooter and a culler?
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yeah for some it will be useful, for the majority of us....not really, i think many already shoot with the view to culling.....or from a cricket term from my youth....hit and hope
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With sports and action high frame rates are indeed useful and can result in more useful photos. 60fps seems like overkill though.
 
Tommi K1 said:
chlamchowder said:
Apparently that's what the 'protect image' thing does. You use that to mark the images you want to keep, then run delete all.

I used to be like "why would I ever use this protect image button" until I saw people using it.
Click to expand...
That has amazed me in last 20 years that why don't people use it, but people don't either read manuals or they don't comprehend all what they read in manuals.
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To each his own. I would rather wait until I uploaded to the computer and delete there rather than waste time on the camera when I could be taking more photos. Back in the day of low capacity cards I can see where it would have been useful but not so much today.
 
Martin.au said:
"As nice as the Apple iPhone is, it poses a real challenge to its users. Try typing a web key on a touchscreen on an Apple iPhone, that's a real challenge. You cannot see what you type." – Balsillie, November 2007.

From https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/jun/29/rim-chiefs-best-quotes

Balsillie was co-chief executive of RIM - maker of the Blackberry.
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I actually think that the real keys of the Blackberry were easier to type on than the virtual ones on smartphones but they used up screen real estate. Larger screens won out. DSLRs and MILC cameras each have advantages and disadvantages. The public will decide which combination of advantages and disadvantages wins out.
 
tbcass said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
threw the lens said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
got my popcorn ready for this one, i am expecting 60fps to be mentioned more than once :D
Click to expand...
60fps could be useful. But it end-loads a lot on the user in culling rather than picking the moment. Are we to shoot in pairs now, a shooter and a culler?
Click to expand...
yeah for some it will be useful, for the majority of us....not really, i think many already shoot with the view to culling.....or from a cricket term from my youth....hit and hope
Click to expand...
With sports and action high frame rates are indeed useful and can result in more useful photos. 60fps seems like overkill though.
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yeah they can be, but as a hobbyist i really don't want to spend the time sifting through endless shots of the same thing
 
Tommi K1 said:
sportyaccordy said:
kiwi2 said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
the nice thing about a Dslr is that i can stand in a field for 2.5 days taking pictures of airplanes and not have to charge the battery once
Click to expand...
www.tethertools.com/product/case-relay-power-bundle/
Click to expand...
Seems like the answer to all of MILCs' problems is to spend more money to carry and deal with more stuff.
Click to expand...
More like most problems in mirrorless are from DSLR users inventing situations why mirrorless fails....
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i also use mirrorless btw
 
The idea that MILCs and DSLRs are both going to disappear completely in the foreseeable future unrealistic. Beyond that all bets are off.

--
Tom
 
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Tommi K1 said:
stevo23 said:
That's all that's left of an advantage then, eh?
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It is for argument, yes.

But the real advantage is when you are hiking weeks and you can't recharge batteries for days because weather (solar panel) or because no power by other means when camping, that is when DSLR triumph, if you use camera longer than 3-4 hours and you are on the go with a single battery anyways.

But hiking 20-40km a day does mean don't stop to take photos... So you don't anyways spend batteries much at all.
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If it comes down to that, my A7 won for weight and convenience over my D600 even with its extra batteries. The smaller size and weight of the A7 and the ability to adapt smaller and lighter lenses allowed that advantage. Now that A7 has increased battery life, that's not as much of a gap.

I've used both on my 6 night backcountry trips. The greater weight of D600 + lenses + two batteries was significant compared to A7 + lenses + four batteries.

D600 took until day five to need a battery change (impressive), so carrying two was exactly right. A7 needed one every 1.5 to 2 days depending on shooting conditions and I had to be conservative.
 
Wu Jiaqiu said:
Tommi K1 said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
over a 1200 frames taken and 40% battery left when i returned home
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That's about right for my D600 - quite impressive.
Member said:
Member said:
So not an problem for mirrorless.
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you would need extra batteries or charge it up.....2.5 days....all about the time isn't it with mirrorless?
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Yes, my mirrorless have needed batteries more frequently than my DSLR and while that's probably not going to change, carrying extra batteries is nowhere close to a show stopper.
 
Wu Jiaqiu said:
tbcass said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
threw the lens said:
Wu Jiaqiu said:
got my popcorn ready for this one, i am expecting 60fps to be mentioned more than once :D
Click to expand...
60fps could be useful. But it end-loads a lot on the user in culling rather than picking the moment. Are we to shoot in pairs now, a shooter and a culler?
Click to expand...
yeah for some it will be useful, for the majority of us....not really, i think many already shoot with the view to culling.....or from a cricket term from my youth....hit and hope
Click to expand...
With sports and action high frame rates are indeed useful and can result in more useful photos. 60fps seems like overkill though.
Click to expand...
yeah they can be, but as a hobbyist i really don't want to spend the time sifting through endless shots of the same thing
Click to expand...
OK for you but don't assume that high frame rates are simply spray and pray. I'm a hobbyist and find higher frame rates can be very useful and it's not because of lack of skill or experience.
 
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