Few Z questions ...

You obviously don't know much about flash memory technology, and are focused on a temporarily high price for a technologically superior product. I am an electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry. SD cards were designed for consumer electronics where price is the only factor and reliability is not important. No company designs in SD cards when speed and reliability are more important than price. If you ever lose a day's worth of shooting to an SD card failure you will regret saving a few bucks.

The upcoming CF Express cards will start out expensive, as all new technology does. But because it does not require royalties, as XQD does, it will most likely be better adopted, and economies of scale will drive the price down quickly. Hence, much higher speed with much greater reliability, at a competitive price. That is why Nikon went with XQD for now, and always intended to switch to CF Express.
Wow, what a coincidence. I'm an electrical engineer too. I've ran a consulting business for 30 years. Test and measurement systems are my specialty. Mostly software development. My first customer was Keithley Instruments. I wrote their software that they sold to semiconductor companies for IV testing. 'Model 251 IV Test Software' or something similar was the name. Only a hardware company could come up with a name like that. They actually had a discussion that it had to have a 'model number' as everything else they ever created had one. Bizarre but true. Long gone DOS software, but I do take pride in the fact that for many years after Windows had become dominant there were still customers who specifically ordered that software.

In the end neither my or your qualifications matter much for the subject at hand. SD does everything I need and at about 1/10 of the cost of XQD. I'm typing this on a 5 year old PC. Hobbyists always have the latest greatest PCs. I don't need that for my work so I don't waste the money. Same goes for my photography hobby.

Also the thing about reliability is easily solved, as almost all camera companies do, by adding a second slot. I'll take 2 slots with a one in a million chance of failure over one with a one in ten million chance of failure (hypothetical numbers of course).

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Jonathan
 
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I think the XQD card was the right choice for this camera, which is between a full on Pro camera and advanced enthusiast’s camera. While the camera may not currently make full use of its high end card slot, future cameras will, and even the Z6/7 may take advantage of the XQ D Card Speed in future FW updates, like improved higher bit rate video recording on the Z6, using ProRes or ?

meanwhile, the XQD slot allow future upgrade to the new CFExpress 2.0 card technology coming down the pike. SD cards are soon to go the way of CF cards, and SD cards today are not the same technology SD cards 3-4 years ago were. Everything changes in time...
Cheers
So I have a choice between very very expensive now and ultra expensive later? Great. Just looked up a 128 BG CF CFast card - $300. No thanks.
Well, then don't buy a 128GB. The Z6 really needs only 64GB, 128GB is far too large in my opinion, even for the Z7, unless you shoot long video footages. In any case, the memory card is used as buffer also, which is why it needs the speed which is not possible for any SD cards.
Just using 128 as a frame of reference as that is the last SD card size I bought. Certainly one can live with less than that. Still a 32GB card was like $88 on B&H.
Well, perhaps you compare apples and oranges...?
The Z6 is priced right in the meat of the consumer FF camera market, not the high end. XQD just doesn't belong in this camera.
You are wrong. The Z6 is NOT for the consumer market, it is a high end camera aimed at customers who put quality before price and are ready to pay a bit extra for that.
Consumer enthusiast is really a better description.
No, it's a pro camera, whether you like it or not. Consumer bodies are not built according to those specs and consumer bodies are not part of NPU program.
It is probably why we're seeing the camera price drop faster than normal for a recent release.
I don't think it is dropping faster than other cameras. Do you have any source for this, or is it just what you heard on some other forum?
Less than a year and there are price cuts. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but it does seem a bit fast.
"Seems fast"... ALL cameras fall in price constantly. Canon, Sony or any others are not exceptions. Cameras are really bad investments, so if price fall is an issue you should keep whatever you have and not buy the Z or any other new one.
Overall the Z6 is a very worthy effort (especially for a first generation mirrorless camera),
It's actually not the first generation mirrorless camera for Nikon. Nikon have been making mirrorless cameras for 8 years now, testing out the technology on the Nikon 1, but it is their first mirrorless FF, and the first mirrorless with IBIS.
Yeah I'm discounting that.
Why? It was a VERY important part of their mirrorless development, and it was wise to start with the smaller and cheaper ones.
Funny thing is about the time Nikon pulled the plug, 1" sensors were getting good enough for a lot of folks. Horrible timing.
They pulled the plug when they thought it came to a dead end and the Z was about to be launched.
but they missed the mark on the memory card.
No, they didn't miss anything regarding the XQD. I think it was a very good decision to move away from the SD to something MUCH better and faster.
Often bold moves away from the mainstream spell problems for a company. Sometimes it leads to great things. Only time will tell.
They didn't move away from anything. XQD was already in use in several DSLRs, so it was exactly the right move to put it in the Z as well.
BTW I've shot mostly Canon for decades and oh boy could I make a long list of what they're screwed up in recent years so I'm not picking on Nikon at all.
OK, but remember that just because YOU got tired of Canon, it doesn't really mean that they screwed it up. Just like because YOU don't know why Nikon chose XQD and not SD it doesn't mean that it was a mistake, it just mean that they didn't ask you about it.
Nobody called me for sure. I've read more than one article questioning their card choice.
You mean blog posts, not articles written by anyone in particular... :)
Doubly puzzling if aiming at pros, why just one slot?
Perhaps because swapping card takes only two-three seconds, and because there is no space and probably not enough need for it, as well as the dual slots giving false security about backup safety and many other reasons. We have had quite a few discussions regarding that already, but again, it is not you who decides if a camera is a pro camera or not. There are many ways you can define a pro camera, but in reality, Nikon makes that decision, and "dual slots" is not part of that equation.
The reason for 2 slots is in case one card gets corrupted. The fact you can put in a new one in 'only two-three seconds' does nothing to recover your lost photos. For some things, i.e. weddings, that is a must have.

Let's just agree to disagree and hopefully converse on something else later. I don't think either of our minds are likely to change at this point.

--
Jonathan
 
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I think the XQD card was the right choice for this camera, which is between a full on Pro camera and advanced enthusiast’s camera. While the camera may not currently make full use of its high end card slot, future cameras will, and even the Z6/7 may take advantage of the XQ D Card Speed in future FW updates, like improved higher bit rate video recording on the Z6, using ProRes or ?

meanwhile, the XQD slot allow future upgrade to the new CFExpress 2.0 card technology coming down the pike. SD cards are soon to go the way of CF cards, and SD cards today are not the same technology SD cards 3-4 years ago were. Everything changes in time...
Cheers
So I have a choice between very very expensive now and ultra expensive later? Great. Just looked up a 128 BG CF CFast card - $300. No thanks.

The Z6 is priced right in the meat of the consumer FF camera market, not the high end. XQD just doesn't belong in this camera. It is probably why we're seeing the camera price drop faster than normal for a recent release.

Overall the Z6 is a very worthy effort (especially for a first generation mirrorless camera), but they missed the mark on the memory card. BTW I've shot mostly Canon for decades and oh boy could I make a long list of what they're screwed up in recent years so I'm not picking on Nikon at all.
CFast is not the same thing as CFExpress. No CFExpress cards have been released yet so nobody knows how much they'll cost. Presumably the first ones will be expensive, like all new things are, but CFExpress is an open standard, unlike XQD which is owned by Sony, so in theory more manufacturers could choose to make them, without having to pay royalties to Sony, and the prices could come down. The CFExpress format is physically identical to XQD, so the Z cameras will work with both after a promised firmware update in the future.

XQD is the reason why the camera is ready to go again immediately after a burst and the camera isn't bricked for 10 or 20 seconds waiting for the buffer to clear like on some of the Sony cams. Later CFExpress cards will also further increase the data bandwidth.

Cameras like the D5, D500, and D850 also use XQD, if you want the best performance.
 
I think the XQD card was the right choice for this camera, which is between a full on Pro camera and advanced enthusiast’s camera. While the camera may not currently make full use of its high end card slot, future cameras will, and even the Z6/7 may take advantage of the XQ D Card Speed in future FW updates, like improved higher bit rate video recording on the Z6, using ProRes or ?

meanwhile, the XQD slot allow future upgrade to the new CFExpress 2.0 card technology coming down the pike. SD cards are soon to go the way of CF cards, and SD cards today are not the same technology SD cards 3-4 years ago were. Everything changes in time...
Cheers
So I have a choice between very very expensive now and ultra expensive later? Great. Just looked up a 128 BG CF CFast card - $300. No thanks.

The Z6 is priced right in the meat of the consumer FF camera market, not the high end. XQD just doesn't belong in this camera. It is probably why we're seeing the camera price drop faster than normal for a recent release.

Overall the Z6 is a very worthy effort (especially for a first generation mirrorless camera), but they missed the mark on the memory card. BTW I've shot mostly Canon for decades and oh boy could I make a long list of what they're screwed up in recent years so I'm not picking on Nikon at all.
CFast is not the same thing as CFExpress. No CFExpress cards have been released yet so nobody knows how much they'll cost. Presumably the first ones will be expensive, like all new things are, but CFExpress is an open standard, unlike XQD which is owned by Sony, so in theory more manufacturers could choose to make them, without having to pay royalties to Sony, and the prices could come down. The CFExpress format is physically identical to XQD, so the Z cameras will work with both after a promised firmware update in the future.

XQD is the reason why the camera is ready to go again immediately after a burst and the camera isn't bricked for 10 or 20 seconds waiting for the buffer to clear like on some of the Sony cams. Later CFExpress cards will also further increase the data bandwidth.

Cameras like the D5, D500, and D850 also use XQD, if you want the best performance.
So it's a Nikon thing. D500 and D850 apparently also use SD. I guess the small number of folks buying $6K D5s don't have to worry about storage cost too much. It's a sports camera so XQD seems to make more sense there.

All the above have 2 slots so they aren't counting on an XQD card NEVER failing.

I'm sure it is a great card format, money and convenience aside. Just not worth it to the average user. One slot also means there is always a possibility your photos go bye bye forever no matter how good the card is. Not good if doing a wedding. I would hate to have that conversation with the bride after the wedding.

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Jonathan
 
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I don't need the $189.99 version. The $22 version works just fine. I really don't like being forced to spend exorbitant prices for something I have no need for. Thanks for the info though.

I've yet to see a compelling reason why they chose XQD over SD. I don't do video, but I know Sony A7s, Panny GH5s etc. are considered high end video devices and work fine with SD. This isn't an A9 type camera so long fast bursts aren't really what it's for on the stills side. Not stills. Not video. What then is the need?

I think Nikon just terribly misread something early on in the development of this camera. Maybe they thought XQD would be dominant and cheap by time they finished development. If so, they were terribly wrong.
I think Nikon thought the XQD (and the CF Express architecture that is compatible with the same card geometry and connectors as XQD) are "forwarding thinking" and will serve Nikon long into the future. CF Express in particular will be able to go really fast which will enable new types of burst shooting and likely higher resolution video. For pros or people who use their cameras a lot, I think the XQD/CF Express card package and connectors is believed to be more robust than the SD form factor.

It appears that you're complaining that the camera is more capable than you need and thus that makes it cost a bit more. I expect that Nikon will probably create less expensive mirrorless cameras in the future that are less forward thinking in their card design, designed for lower customer costs and may use SD cards. Perhaps that's really what is better targeted for you (though not yet shipping from Nikon).

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John
 
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I don't need the $189.99 version. The $22 version works just fine. I really don't like being forced to spend exorbitant prices for something I have no need for. Thanks for the info though.

I've yet to see a compelling reason why they chose XQD over SD. I don't do video, but I know Sony A7s, Panny GH5s etc. are considered high end video devices and work fine with SD. This isn't an A9 type camera so long fast bursts aren't really what it's for on the stills side. Not stills. Not video. What then is the need?

I think Nikon just terribly misread something early on in the development of this camera. Maybe they thought XQD would be dominant and cheap by time they finished development. If so, they were terribly wrong.
I think Nikon thought the XQD (and the CF Express architecture that is compatible with the same card geometry and connectors as XQD) are "forwarding thinking" and will serve Nikon long into the future. CF Express in particular will be able to go really fast which will enable new types of burst shooting and likely higher resolution video. For pros or people who use their cameras a lot, I think the XQD/CF Express card package and connectors is believed to be more robust than the SD form factor.
Often 'forward thinking' just ends up being a wrong bet made too early. Nikon has no idea what is going to be 'the' card format of the future. How many times has that changed? At least if they go with what is common now it is easy to use right now.
It appears that you're complaining that the camera is more capable than you need and thus that makes it cost a bit more. I expect that Nikon will probably create less expensive mirrorless cameras in the future that are less forward thinking in their card design, designed for lower customer costs and may use SD cards. Perhaps that's really what is better targeted for you (though not yet shipping from Nikon).
If an XQD card fails or gets lost am I going to go into a typical store and buy one? I doubt it.

The camera has one slot so a camera with 2 SD slots is imminently for reliable.

The point is simple and standard often wins out over high performance and expensive.

The thing is Nikon has made, in my opinion, the most appealing FF mirrorless for the average enthusiast and tried to force them to be 'forward thinking' and expensive when they just want something that works and is affordable and easily replaceable and probably already in use in their current camera.
 
You obviously don't know much about flash memory technology, and are focused on a temporarily high price for a technologically superior product. I am an electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry. SD cards were designed for consumer electronics where price is the only factor and reliability is not important. No company designs in SD cards when speed and reliability are more important than price. If you ever lose a day's worth of shooting to an SD card failure you will regret saving a few bucks.

The upcoming CF Express cards will start out expensive, as all new technology does. But because it does not require royalties, as XQD does, it will most likely be better adopted, and economies of scale will drive the price down quickly. Hence, much higher speed with much greater reliability, at a competitive price. That is why Nikon went with XQD for now, and always intended to switch to CF Express.
Wow, what a coincidence. I'm an electrical engineer too. I've ran a consulting business for 30 years. Test and measurement systems are my specialty. Mostly software development. My first customer was Keithley Instruments. I wrote their software that they sold to semiconductor companies for IV testing. 'Model 251 IV Test Software' or something similar was the name. Only a hardware company could come up with a name like that. They actually had a discussion that it had to have a 'model number' as everything else they ever created had one. Bizarre but true. Long gone DOS software, but I do take pride in the fact that for many years after Windows had become dominant there were still customers who specifically ordered that software.
In this case I am surprised by your questions about XQD and why Nikon made that fatal mistake and so on... :-)
In the end neither my or your qualifications matter much for the subject at hand. SD does everything I need and at about 1/10 of the cost of XQD. I'm typing this on a 5 year old PC. Hobbyists always have the latest greatest PCs. I don't need that for my work so I don't waste the money. Same goes for my photography hobby.
I think you don't need the Z6 at all.
Also the thing about reliability is easily solved, as almost all camera companies do, by adding a second slot. I'll take 2 slots with a one in a million chance of failure over one with a one in ten million chance of failure (hypothetical numbers of course).
You fool yourself if you think a camera with dual slots is more reliable than single slots. Cameras are not air planes. :-)

BTW, I have also a long history in engineering...
 
I think the XQD card was the right choice for this camera, which is between a full on Pro camera and advanced enthusiast’s camera. While the camera may not currently make full use of its high end card slot, future cameras will, and even the Z6/7 may take advantage of the XQ D Card Speed in future FW updates, like improved higher bit rate video recording on the Z6, using ProRes or ?

meanwhile, the XQD slot allow future upgrade to the new CFExpress 2.0 card technology coming down the pike. SD cards are soon to go the way of CF cards, and SD cards today are not the same technology SD cards 3-4 years ago were. Everything changes in time...
Cheers
So I have a choice between very very expensive now and ultra expensive later? Great. Just looked up a 128 BG CF CFast card - $300. No thanks.
Well, then don't buy a 128GB. The Z6 really needs only 64GB, 128GB is far too large in my opinion, even for the Z7, unless you shoot long video footages. In any case, the memory card is used as buffer also, which is why it needs the speed which is not possible for any SD cards.
Just using 128 as a frame of reference as that is the last SD card size I bought. Certainly one can live with less than that. Still a 32GB card was like $88 on B&H.
Well, perhaps you compare apples and oranges...?
The Z6 is priced right in the meat of the consumer FF camera market, not the high end. XQD just doesn't belong in this camera.
You are wrong. The Z6 is NOT for the consumer market, it is a high end camera aimed at customers who put quality before price and are ready to pay a bit extra for that.
Consumer enthusiast is really a better description.
No, it's a pro camera, whether you like it or not. Consumer bodies are not built according to those specs and consumer bodies are not part of NPU program.
It is probably why we're seeing the camera price drop faster than normal for a recent release.
I don't think it is dropping faster than other cameras. Do you have any source for this, or is it just what you heard on some other forum?
Less than a year and there are price cuts. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but it does seem a bit fast.
"Seems fast"... ALL cameras fall in price constantly. Canon, Sony or any others are not exceptions. Cameras are really bad investments, so if price fall is an issue you should keep whatever you have and not buy the Z or any other new one.
Overall the Z6 is a very worthy effort (especially for a first generation mirrorless camera),
It's actually not the first generation mirrorless camera for Nikon. Nikon have been making mirrorless cameras for 8 years now, testing out the technology on the Nikon 1, but it is their first mirrorless FF, and the first mirrorless with IBIS.
Yeah I'm discounting that.
Why? It was a VERY important part of their mirrorless development, and it was wise to start with the smaller and cheaper ones.
Funny thing is about the time Nikon pulled the plug, 1" sensors were getting good enough for a lot of folks. Horrible timing.
They pulled the plug when they thought it came to a dead end and the Z was about to be launched.
but they missed the mark on the memory card.
No, they didn't miss anything regarding the XQD. I think it was a very good decision to move away from the SD to something MUCH better and faster.
Often bold moves away from the mainstream spell problems for a company. Sometimes it leads to great things. Only time will tell.
They didn't move away from anything. XQD was already in use in several DSLRs, so it was exactly the right move to put it in the Z as well.
BTW I've shot mostly Canon for decades and oh boy could I make a long list of what they're screwed up in recent years so I'm not picking on Nikon at all.
OK, but remember that just because YOU got tired of Canon, it doesn't really mean that they screwed it up. Just like because YOU don't know why Nikon chose XQD and not SD it doesn't mean that it was a mistake, it just mean that they didn't ask you about it.
Nobody called me for sure. I've read more than one article questioning their card choice.
You mean blog posts, not articles written by anyone in particular... :)
Doubly puzzling if aiming at pros, why just one slot?
Perhaps because swapping card takes only two-three seconds, and because there is no space and probably not enough need for it, as well as the dual slots giving false security about backup safety and many other reasons. We have had quite a few discussions regarding that already, but again, it is not you who decides if a camera is a pro camera or not. There are many ways you can define a pro camera, but in reality, Nikon makes that decision, and "dual slots" is not part of that equation.
The reason for 2 slots is in case one card gets corrupted. The fact you can put in a new one in 'only two-three seconds' does nothing to recover your lost photos. For some things, i.e. weddings, that is a must have.
Like I said... cameras are not air planes. If one card gets corrupted (never happened to any of my cards) the other may also get corrupted.
Let's just agree to disagree and hopefully converse on something else later. I don't think either of our minds are likely to change at this point.
You have to come up with something more solid to convince me.
 
You obviously don't know much about flash memory technology, and are focused on a temporarily high price for a technologically superior product. I am an electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry. SD cards were designed for consumer electronics where price is the only factor and reliability is not important. No company designs in SD cards when speed and reliability are more important than price. If you ever lose a day's worth of shooting to an SD card failure you will regret saving a few bucks.

The upcoming CF Express cards will start out expensive, as all new technology does. But because it does not require royalties, as XQD does, it will most likely be better adopted, and economies of scale will drive the price down quickly. Hence, much higher speed with much greater reliability, at a competitive price. That is why Nikon went with XQD for now, and always intended to switch to CF Express.
Wow, what a coincidence. I'm an electrical engineer too. I've ran a consulting business for 30 years. Test and measurement systems are my specialty. Mostly software development. My first customer was Keithley Instruments. I wrote their software that they sold to semiconductor companies for IV testing. 'Model 251 IV Test Software' or something similar was the name. Only a hardware company could come up with a name like that. They actually had a discussion that it had to have a 'model number' as everything else they ever created had one. Bizarre but true. Long gone DOS software, but I do take pride in the fact that for many years after Windows had become dominant there were still customers who specifically ordered that software.
In this case I am surprised by your questions about XQD and why Nikon made that fatal mistake and so on... :-)
I don't following every nuance of technology. Passed that stage decades ago. I view most technology items as a toll to use. If they do something useful, make life easier, do something cheaper then they are good. I'm not worried about which memory technology is the best. I know what is used the most, costs the least and in all my usage has never failed me. I could read lots of stuff (if I look hard enough) to convince me I've been flirting with disaster using SD cards, but I'll just go with my real world experience and keep using my cameras with SD cards in blissful ignorance.
In the end neither my or your qualifications matter much for the subject at hand. SD does everything I need and at about 1/10 of the cost of XQD. I'm typing this on a 5 year old PC. Hobbyists always have the latest greatest PCs. I don't need that for my work so I don't waste the money. Same goes for my photography hobby.
I think you don't need the Z6 at all.
Need, no. This is just for fun. In many ways it is the most appealing of the FF mirrorless available, memory choice aside.
Also the thing about reliability is easily solved, as almost all camera companies do, by adding a second slot. I'll take 2 slots with a one in a million chance of failure over one with a one in ten million chance of failure (hypothetical numbers of course).
You fool yourself if you think a camera with dual slots is more reliable than single slots. Cameras are not air planes. :-)
Airplane is one word. Typo I'm sure.

Also, a guy name Steve Huff jus did some sort of torture test on tough SD cards. Didn't read it but apparently it survived things (placed in a blender?) that would never happen in the real world.
BTW, I have also a long history in engineering...
--
Jonathan
 
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I don't need the $189.99 version. The $22 version works just fine. I really don't like being forced to spend exorbitant prices for something I have no need for. Thanks for the info though.

I've yet to see a compelling reason why they chose XQD over SD. I don't do video, but I know Sony A7s, Panny GH5s etc. are considered high end video devices and work fine with SD. This isn't an A9 type camera so long fast bursts aren't really what it's for on the stills side. Not stills. Not video. What then is the need?

I think Nikon just terribly misread something early on in the development of this camera. Maybe they thought XQD would be dominant and cheap by time they finished development. If so, they were terribly wrong.
I think Nikon thought the XQD (and the CF Express architecture that is compatible with the same card geometry and connectors as XQD) are "forwarding thinking" and will serve Nikon long into the future. CF Express in particular will be able to go really fast which will enable new types of burst shooting and likely higher resolution video. For pros or people who use their cameras a lot, I think the XQD/CF Express card package and connectors is believed to be more robust than the SD form factor.
Often 'forward thinking' just ends up being a wrong bet made too early. Nikon has no idea what is going to be 'the' card format of the future. How many times has that changed? At least if they go with what is common now it is easy to use right now.
It appears that you're complaining that the camera is more capable than you need and thus that makes it cost a bit more. I expect that Nikon will probably create less expensive mirrorless cameras in the future that are less forward thinking in their card design, designed for lower customer costs and may use SD cards. Perhaps that's really what is better targeted for you (though not yet shipping from Nikon).
If an XQD card fails or gets lost am I going to go into a typical store and buy one? I doubt it.

The camera has one slot so a camera with 2 SD slots is imminently for reliable.

The point is simple and standard often wins out over high performance and expensive.

The thing is Nikon has made, in my opinion, the most appealing FF mirrorless for the average enthusiast and tried to force them to be 'forward thinking' and expensive when they just want something that works and is affordable and easily replaceable and probably already in use in their current camera.

--
Jonathan
I remember when SD cards first came out. “Secure Digital” - the main advantage was size over CF but at the time many people bemoaned the new format. Some said the cards looked vulnerable to damage compared to CF.. some said they were too expensive. But most complained that they couldn’t use their existing collection of CF cards, and that they weren’t as readily available.

I’ve broken/damaged a fair few SD cards - the XQD’s seem more robust to me. Given my previous, I’m glad they are. I’m glad the Z7 uses a new format and will eventually support CFExpress. Given the Z’s seem to have better weather sealing than many other options available, I see the XQD choice (robustness, speed) as a sensible choice.
 
I think the XQD card was the right choice for this camera, which is between a full on Pro camera and advanced enthusiast’s camera. While the camera may not currently make full use of its high end card slot, future cameras will, and even the Z6/7 may take advantage of the XQ D Card Speed in future FW updates, like improved higher bit rate video recording on the Z6, using ProRes or ?

meanwhile, the XQD slot allow future upgrade to the new CFExpress 2.0 card technology coming down the pike. SD cards are soon to go the way of CF cards, and SD cards today are not the same technology SD cards 3-4 years ago were. Everything changes in time...
Cheers
So I have a choice between very very expensive now and ultra expensive later? Great. Just looked up a 128 BG CF CFast card - $300. No thanks.
Well, then don't buy a 128GB. The Z6 really needs only 64GB, 128GB is far too large in my opinion, even for the Z7, unless you shoot long video footages. In any case, the memory card is used as buffer also, which is why it needs the speed which is not possible for any SD cards.
Just using 128 as a frame of reference as that is the last SD card size I bought. Certainly one can live with less than that. Still a 32GB card was like $88 on B&H.
Well, perhaps you compare apples and oranges...?
The Z6 is priced right in the meat of the consumer FF camera market, not the high end. XQD just doesn't belong in this camera.
You are wrong. The Z6 is NOT for the consumer market, it is a high end camera aimed at customers who put quality before price and are ready to pay a bit extra for that.
Consumer enthusiast is really a better description.
No, it's a pro camera, whether you like it or not. Consumer bodies are not built according to those specs and consumer bodies are not part of NPU program.
It is probably why we're seeing the camera price drop faster than normal for a recent release.
I don't think it is dropping faster than other cameras. Do you have any source for this, or is it just what you heard on some other forum?
Less than a year and there are price cuts. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but it does seem a bit fast.
"Seems fast"... ALL cameras fall in price constantly. Canon, Sony or any others are not exceptions. Cameras are really bad investments, so if price fall is an issue you should keep whatever you have and not buy the Z or any other new one.
Overall the Z6 is a very worthy effort (especially for a first generation mirrorless camera),
It's actually not the first generation mirrorless camera for Nikon. Nikon have been making mirrorless cameras for 8 years now, testing out the technology on the Nikon 1, but it is their first mirrorless FF, and the first mirrorless with IBIS.
Yeah I'm discounting that.
Why? It was a VERY important part of their mirrorless development, and it was wise to start with the smaller and cheaper ones.
Funny thing is about the time Nikon pulled the plug, 1" sensors were getting good enough for a lot of folks. Horrible timing.
They pulled the plug when they thought it came to a dead end and the Z was about to be launched.
but they missed the mark on the memory card.
No, they didn't miss anything regarding the XQD. I think it was a very good decision to move away from the SD to something MUCH better and faster.
Often bold moves away from the mainstream spell problems for a company. Sometimes it leads to great things. Only time will tell.
They didn't move away from anything. XQD was already in use in several DSLRs, so it was exactly the right move to put it in the Z as well.
BTW I've shot mostly Canon for decades and oh boy could I make a long list of what they're screwed up in recent years so I'm not picking on Nikon at all.
OK, but remember that just because YOU got tired of Canon, it doesn't really mean that they screwed it up. Just like because YOU don't know why Nikon chose XQD and not SD it doesn't mean that it was a mistake, it just mean that they didn't ask you about it.
Nobody called me for sure. I've read more than one article questioning their card choice.
You mean blog posts, not articles written by anyone in particular... :)
Doubly puzzling if aiming at pros, why just one slot?
Perhaps because swapping card takes only two-three seconds, and because there is no space and probably not enough need for it, as well as the dual slots giving false security about backup safety and many other reasons. We have had quite a few discussions regarding that already, but again, it is not you who decides if a camera is a pro camera or not. There are many ways you can define a pro camera, but in reality, Nikon makes that decision, and "dual slots" is not part of that equation.
The reason for 2 slots is in case one card gets corrupted. The fact you can put in a new one in 'only two-three seconds' does nothing to recover your lost photos. For some things, i.e. weddings, that is a must have.
Like I said... cameras are not air planes. If one card gets corrupted (never happened to any of my cards) the other may also get corrupted.
Ok you've done it twice. Obviously not a typo. It is 'airplane', not 'air plane'.
Let's just agree to disagree and hopefully converse on something else later. I don't think either of our minds are likely to change at this point.
You have to come up with something more solid to convince me.
I'm trying to part nicely, but if that's not possible there's always room on the ignore list.
 
I don't need the $189.99 version. The $22 version works just fine. I really don't like being forced to spend exorbitant prices for something I have no need for. Thanks for the info though.

I've yet to see a compelling reason why they chose XQD over SD. I don't do video, but I know Sony A7s, Panny GH5s etc. are considered high end video devices and work fine with SD. This isn't an A9 type camera so long fast bursts aren't really what it's for on the stills side. Not stills. Not video. What then is the need?

I think Nikon just terribly misread something early on in the development of this camera. Maybe they thought XQD would be dominant and cheap by time they finished development. If so, they were terribly wrong.
I think Nikon thought the XQD (and the CF Express architecture that is compatible with the same card geometry and connectors as XQD) are "forwarding thinking" and will serve Nikon long into the future. CF Express in particular will be able to go really fast which will enable new types of burst shooting and likely higher resolution video. For pros or people who use their cameras a lot, I think the XQD/CF Express card package and connectors is believed to be more robust than the SD form factor.
Often 'forward thinking' just ends up being a wrong bet made too early. Nikon has no idea what is going to be 'the' card format of the future. How many times has that changed? At least if they go with what is common now it is easy to use right now.
It appears that you're complaining that the camera is more capable than you need and thus that makes it cost a bit more. I expect that Nikon will probably create less expensive mirrorless cameras in the future that are less forward thinking in their card design, designed for lower customer costs and may use SD cards. Perhaps that's really what is better targeted for you (though not yet shipping from Nikon).
If an XQD card fails or gets lost am I going to go into a typical store and buy one? I doubt it.

The camera has one slot so a camera with 2 SD slots is imminently for reliable.

The point is simple and standard often wins out over high performance and expensive.

The thing is Nikon has made, in my opinion, the most appealing FF mirrorless for the average enthusiast and tried to force them to be 'forward thinking' and expensive when they just want something that works and is affordable and easily replaceable and probably already in use in their current camera.
I remember when SD cards first came out. “Secure Digital” - the main advantage was size over CF but at the time many people bemoaned the new format. Some said the cards looked vulnerable to damage compared to CF.. some said they were too expensive. But most complained that they couldn’t use their existing collection of CF cards, and that they weren’t as readily available.
I remember that well. Seems the fear was unfounded or at the very least way overblown.

Similar to now I was not happy that I had to replace my stash on CF cards when almost all new cameras went to SD. Luckily my newly bought stash of SD cards went on to have many many years of useful service in many cameras since they have became the standard. Maybe XQD will do the same, but I'm not holding my breath.
I’ve broken/damaged a fair few SD cards - the XQD’s seem more robust to me. Given my previous, I’m glad they are. I’m glad the Z7 uses a new format and will eventually support CFExpress. Given the Z’s seem to have better weather sealing than many other options available, I see the XQD choice (robustness, speed) as a sensible choice.
Anything can be broken. Everyone's usage is different. Maybe you do something that is much rougher on them than my usage.

Only problem I have ever had with a SD card is on one brand (I forget which one right now) the little piece that you can move so you can't write to them can come loose and it moves as you insert the card. I quit buying that brand and have never seen that again.

Never had any sort of failure or problem besides that. I'm not pulling the card in and out several times a day. Maybe others do and have problems. Seems that the majority of camera makers would have moved on if SD cards were so fragile.

I don't doubt XQD cards are 'better' in many ways. Better is different for each persons needs. If I did something that regularly, or even once, damaged my SD cards I'd be looking elsewhere too. Hasn't been an issue for me personally.

--
Jonathan
 
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I don't need the $189.99 version. The $22 version works just fine. I really don't like being forced to spend exorbitant prices for something I have no need for. Thanks for the info though.

I've yet to see a compelling reason why they chose XQD over SD. I don't do video, but I know Sony A7s, Panny GH5s etc. are considered high end video devices and work fine with SD. This isn't an A9 type camera so long fast bursts aren't really what it's for on the stills side. Not stills. Not video. What then is the need?

I think Nikon just terribly misread something early on in the development of this camera. Maybe they thought XQD would be dominant and cheap by time they finished development. If so, they were terribly wrong.
I think Nikon thought the XQD (and the CF Express architecture that is compatible with the same card geometry and connectors as XQD) are "forwarding thinking" and will serve Nikon long into the future. CF Express in particular will be able to go really fast which will enable new types of burst shooting and likely higher resolution video. For pros or people who use their cameras a lot, I think the XQD/CF Express card package and connectors is believed to be more robust than the SD form factor.
Often 'forward thinking' just ends up being a wrong bet made too early. Nikon has no idea what is going to be 'the' card format of the future. How many times has that changed? At least if they go with what is common now it is easy to use right now.
It appears that you're complaining that the camera is more capable than you need and thus that makes it cost a bit more. I expect that Nikon will probably create less expensive mirrorless cameras in the future that are less forward thinking in their card design, designed for lower customer costs and may use SD cards. Perhaps that's really what is better targeted for you (though not yet shipping from Nikon).
If an XQD card fails or gets lost am I going to go into a typical store and buy one? I doubt it.

The camera has one slot so a camera with 2 SD slots is imminently for reliable.

The point is simple and standard often wins out over high performance and expensive.

The thing is Nikon has made, in my opinion, the most appealing FF mirrorless for the average enthusiast and tried to force them to be 'forward thinking' and expensive when they just want something that works and is affordable and easily replaceable and probably already in use in their current camera.
I remember when SD cards first came out. “Secure Digital” - the main advantage was size over CF but at the time many people bemoaned the new format. Some said the cards looked vulnerable to damage compared to CF.. some said they were too expensive. But most complained that they couldn’t use their existing collection of CF cards, and that they weren’t as readily available.
I remember that well. Seems the fear was unfounded or at the very least way overblown.
I’ve broken/damaged a fair few SD cards - the XQD’s seem more robust to me. Given my previous, I’m glad they are. I’m glad the Z7 uses a new format and will eventually support CFExpress. Given the Z’s seem to have better weather sealing than many other options available, I see the XQD choice (robustness, speed) as a sensible choice.
Anything can be broken. Everyone's usage is different. Maybe you do something that is much rougher on them than my usage.

Only problem I have ever had with a SD card is on one brand (I forget which one right now) the little piece that you can move so you can't write to them can come loose and it moves as you insert the card. I quit buying that brand and have never seen that again.

Never had any sort of failure or problem besides that. I'm not pulling the card in and out several times a day. Maybe others do and have problems. Seems that the majority of camera makers would have moved on if SD cards were so fragile.

I don't doubt XQD cards are 'better' in many ways. Better is different for each persons needs. If I did something that regularly, or even once, damaged my SD cards I'd be looking elsewhere too. Hasn't been an issue for me personally.
 
I guess your choice is simple - are the advantages of the Z6 worth the extra investment in XQD, or would you be better served by a different camera that accepts SD cards?

Everyone is different - and everyone’s priorities/needs/wants are too. Only you can answer that question.

For me, the Z7 did everything I needed and more, and was the hands down winner when I handled it and compared it to a range of other mirrorless options. But that’s me - if everyone was the same it would be a dull world. I have friends who have all sorts of different tastes when it comes to cameras - including a friend who spends many many thousands on Leica gear, and I just don’t understand why. He wouldn’t have it any other way though. And I respect him all the more for it.
Somehow this thing has gotten WAAAAAY overblown. I asked some questions about the Z6. Stated MANY things I like about it. Asked if the XQD cards had been an issue with anyone. It was a disadvantage not an advantage in my eyes. The defenders if the XQD card came out of the woods in droves. You'd think I insulted their mother or something!

Yes, you put it exactly right, either the other advantages outweigh it or not.

It does appear this topic seems to be a bit of a sore spot here so I'm guessing I'm not the first to be attacked by the XQD card defenders (as well meaning as they might be).
 
“Also, a guy name Steve Huff jus did some sort of torture test on tough SD cards. Didn't read it but apparently it survived things (placed in a blender?) that would never happen in the real world.”

Those are those toughened versions of high grade SDXC media, not the lost cost SD media you recently purchased.

Listen, I get it. You don’t need the speed or reliability of higher grade media so don’t pay for it! That’s great! Not every who plays guitar needs a Taylor, a Martin, or a Gretsch.

--
Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
Or on instagram @therealellisv
 
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I guess your choice is simple - are the advantages of the Z6 worth the extra investment in XQD, or would you be better served by a different camera that accepts SD cards?

Everyone is different - and everyone’s priorities/needs/wants are too. Only you can answer that question.

For me, the Z7 did everything I needed and more, and was the hands down winner when I handled it and compared it to a range of other mirrorless options. But that’s me - if everyone was the same it would be a dull world. I have friends who have all sorts of different tastes when it comes to cameras - including a friend who spends many many thousands on Leica gear, and I just don’t understand why. He wouldn’t have it any other way though. And I respect him all the more for it.
Somehow this thing has gotten WAAAAAY overblown.
I agree! Welcome to the Internet! 😁
I asked some questions about the Z6. Stated MANY things I like about it. Asked if the XQD cards had been an issue with anyone. It was a disadvantage not an advantage in my eyes. The defenders if the XQD card came out of the woods in droves. You'd think I insulted their mother or something!

Yes, you put it exactly right, either the other advantages outweigh it or not.

It does appear this topic seems to be a bit of a sore spot here so I'm guessing I'm not the first to be attacked by the XQD card defenders (as well meaning as they might be).
 
That’s great! Not every who plays guitar needs a Taylor, a Martin, or a Gretsch.
No, you need all three. Preferably at least two of each. To go with the many other Gibsons, Fenders, PRSs and...

Or maybe that's just me..
 
It does appear this topic seems to be a bit of a sore spot here so I'm guessing I'm not the first to be attacked by the XQD card defenders (as well meaning as they might be).
I've only just bought into the Z7. It's my first Nikon since the D70 way back..

It's certainly not a sore spot for me. I saw it as neither a pro nor a con to be honest. It was a bit of both. Potentially more robust as a serial SD killer, but more expensive initially.

For me the key deciders were ergonomics, weight and size, usability, IQ, weather sealing, and ability to handle adapted manual focus lenses. So far it's well exceeded all expectations - I keep discovering stuff that makes it that bit better. Maybe there's a touch of honeymoon period there, but my last "serious" camera was a 5D MkII and the size and weight alone began to grate only a few days in to ownership.

Are there things I'd change about the Z7? Yep. Lots actually. I'd have preferred a fully articulating screen, a more mature lens line up (I know, it's coming..), support for AF-D lenses to autofocus so I could get some cheap glass for a foray into Nikon AF Film bodies and use them on the Z as well, a few tweaks to AF tracking..

But there's more things I like about it than dislike. And I'd probably say that none of the above list are really dislikes. If Nikon produced an FTZ-D adapter I'd buy it. If they produced an FTZ adapter that supported AI-S lenses I'd buy it. Hasn't stopped me loving it so far tho.

I think the response you've received is perhaps because actually the XQD thing isn't something that's usually highlighted as a big weakness. Single vs Dual slots is different (personally I don't care - when at home I've set it to auto transfer to the PC over wifi and I intend to carry a USB-C drive when out an about) but the actual card type itself, not so much..
 
“Also, a guy name Steve Huff jus did some sort of torture test on tough SD cards. Didn't read it but apparently it survived things (placed in a blender?) that would never happen in the real world.”

Those are those toughened versions of high grade SDXC media, not the lost cost SD media you recently purchased.

Listen, I get it. You don’t need the speed or reliability of higher grade media so don’t pay for it! That’s great! Not every who plays guitar needs a Taylor, a Martin, or a Gretsch.
Taylor? Martin? Gretsch?

One of those fishing line ukalayees would be more suitable for me. Anything remotely approaching a real guitar would be a total waste of money on me.

Yes, I know those SD cards are expensive. The good stuff in life usually is. But I can't resist pointing out that if your camera has a SD card slot you can get inexpensive or tough (just not both). Just saying ...
 

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