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Sony A7R4 threat for Canon (and Nikon) ?

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mermaidkiller

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Today, Sony announced the new A7R4 with 61MP (why so many, the megapixel race is presumably not over yet ?), but some nice features, like (finally !) 5GHz wifi, very high res 5.76 MP viewfinder (should be about 2000x2880), but also lacking 4K 60fps.

And pixel shift allows making 244MP photos (who needs it ??).

Anyway, Sony is absolutely king in sensor technology and Canon is way behind, such as a 3 year old sensor in the EOS R(P) (from the 2016 5Mk4 and 6Mk2 respectively).

I hope the rumored EOS R Pro (fictional name by me) with 60+MP which would be the successor of the 1DX uses a new sensor, maybe the same as the A7R4 ? Same would apply to the Nikon Z8 and Z9 ? But these are just thoughts.

And Sony is now also threatening the lens king Canon with their new 400mm f/2.8 and 200-600 and some other new lenses rivaling the top end EF and RF lenses.

What are your thoughts ?
 
Good for Sony A7R3 users who need an upgrade.
 
Sony has been taking the lead for many years now. Earlier complaints about Sony lack of performance and lack of lenses and the likes apply to Canon's R and RP and RF lenses at this time.

Both R and RP are not mature products -- they are equivalent to 6D and T5i, respectively, of the DSLR line. Richer and more rigorous features are expected of Canon regarding its new mirrorless camera line. Don't tell me dual SD card slots are not needed, for example. And Canon must learn to release regular firmware updates to enhance performance of existing features and add new features.

Why not something at least at the level of 5D Mark IV, or better? And the RF lenses.

I am using an R and I want an upgrade. Where is it?

Sony is already a threat to Canon -- with or without the newly announced a7R IV.
 
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Wow, this took a few hours longer to get posted than I expected ;)

I'm happy to see them continue to push forward. Competition is a good thing.
 
johnnyandedgar said:
I prefer Camera companies over consumer electronic giants.

johnnyandedgar
Click to expand...
So you are still shooting photographic film?

All digital cameras around are consumer electronic gadgets, regardless of brand name. ;-)

The bright side is that consumers benefit from disruption, invention and competition. The next Canon mirrorless generation simply must evolve...
 
mermaidkiller said:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7747501993/sony-introduces-a7r-iv

Today, Sony announced the new A7R4 with 61MP (why so many, the megapixel race is presumably not over yet ?), but some nice features, like (finally !) 5GHz wifi, very high res 5.76 MP viewfinder (should be about 2000x2880), but also lacking 4K 60fps.

And pixel shift allows making 244MP photos (who needs it ??).

Anyway, Sony is absolutely king in sensor technology and Canon is way behind, such as a 3 year old sensor in the EOS R(P) (from the 2016 5Mk4 and 6Mk2 respectively).

I hope the rumored EOS R Pro (fictional name by me) with 60+MP which would be the successor of the 1DX uses a new sensor, maybe the same as the A7R4 ? Same would apply to the Nikon Z8 and Z9 ? But these are just thoughts.

And Sony is now also threatening the lens king Canon with their new 400mm f/2.8 and 200-600 and some other new lenses rivaling the top end EF and RF lenses.

What are your thoughts ?
Click to expand...
Nikon is using Sony's sensors. So could Canon, if they wanted to. That includes both options: 1) Design the sensor themselves, but subcontract Sony to fab it, or 2) Buy one of the sensors Sony already sells to whomever wants them.

The problem is that Canon wants to manufacture their own sensors. Here are the reasons:

* It gives them more control over the entire process.

* It allows them to use some of their own semiconductor lithography equipment in the process. See https://global.canon/en/product/indtech/semicon/

* It funnels profit back into the company itself.

* It allows them keep costs down, by using the same old sensors over and over again in a bunch on different products by making minor tweaks (and not having to go through new contract negotiations).

That may sound negative, given the spirit of your post. But please keep in mind that even going back to the 1970's, Canon was always the camera company that took great tried and true designs and brought them to the masses.

In other words, blazing a technological trail the way Sony is trying to do with it's sensors is a gambit they have to try because they are not the market leader. It's really their only choice because they are trying to steal market share. Canon would not be well served by an expensive chip "arms race" if the end result was that profits totally evaporated and their market share just stayed flat at 40%

So yes... I know we all want new sensors.

But Canon does have legitimate reasons for keeping the chip making in-house. Despite the fact that means they only come out with new ones at a fairly glacial pace.
 
Regardless of the fit and style, the technology in this release is class leading . The eye tracking even in video is so far ahead of the others that you wonder if they will catch up or just licence. Here is the danger point , do we see Canon bean counters saying " why work on our own " . I do hope that Canon have their own R&D and that their over 20 years in digital stills , can allow them to develop their own equipment and innovate.

I have to say as a near 40 year user of their cameras , the touch bar and sub par EVF , combined with rehashed sensor seen in the most recent releases does make me wonder if this is a company for the future. As said about Kodak when they released their 14N and C cameras at the turn of the millenium, the next release will define their future, in my opinion.
 
johnnyandedgar said:
I prefer Camera companies over consumer electronic giants.
Click to expand...
None of the companies mentioned in this thread is a "camera company". Do some basic search for yourself.



e1ab288cb72d4595be4c7543d21894a9.jpg



Even if Canon was a camera company, would you go out with the company or a camera?
 
73Instamatic said:
Nikon is using Sony's sensors. So could Canon, if they wanted to. That includes both options: 1) Design the sensor themselves, but subcontract Sony to fab it, or 2) Buy one of the sensors Sony already sells to whomever wants them.

The problem is that Canon wants to manufacture their own sensors. Here are the reasons:
Click to expand...
They already do it, not for their DSLRs but Powershots, the G7XIII and G5XII use presumably Sony RX100M4 sensors which are not the newest.

It is their good right, but why not a new design ? Even, as I said before, the R and RP use older design sensors. What some say in this topic, these cameras are not cutting edge technology.

I am a Canon user since 1986 when I bought the T90 which was more cutting edge for that era than the R(P) now. Much easier user interface with a wheel (which many cameras have now) and no clunky mode dial on top (still present on modern cameras in 2020).

I still have the 6D (first edition), considered an upgrade to the R(P), but for me it is, despite better AF and tilt screen, not innovative enough.

Canon should upgrade the R(P) with an EOS R Mk2 within two years with a real innovative sensor and more builtin computational photography and regular firmware updates.
Otherwise Sony will blow it away with the A7S4, a cheaper cousin of the A7R4 probably released soon.

--
Ricoh KR-5 ... Pentax ME Super ... Canon T90 ... ... ... 40d ... 7d ... 6d
 
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mermaidkiller said:
73Instamatic said:
Nikon is using Sony's sensors. So could Canon, if they wanted to. That includes both options: 1) Design the sensor themselves, but subcontract Sony to fab it, or 2) Buy one of the sensors Sony already sells to whomever wants them.

The problem is that Canon wants to manufacture their own sensors. Here are the reasons:
Click to expand...
They already do it, not for their DSLRs but Powershots, the G7XIII and G5XII use presumably Sony RX100M4 sensors which are not the newest.

It is their good right, but why not a new design ? Even, as I said before, the R and RP use older design sensors. What some say in this topic, these cameras are not cutting edge technology.

I am a Canon user since 1986 when I bought the T90 which was more cutting edge for that era than the R(P) now. Much easier user interface with a wheel (which many cameras have now) and no clunky mode dial on top (still present on modern cameras in 2020).

I still have the 6D (first edition), considered an upgrade to the R(P), but for me it is, despite better AF and tilt screen, not innovative enough.

Canon should upgrade the R(P) with an EOS R Mk2 within two years with a real innovative sensor and more builtin computational photography and regular firmware updates.
Otherwise Sony will blow it away with the A7S4, a cheaper cousin of the A7R4 probably released soon.
Click to expand...
Because part of making your own chips is owning and operating your own Fabs.

And you can't produce new sensors that have BSI or stacked memory without upgrading the fab first.

Those 2 things (and others as well) are not just a "design". They require new updated equipment to manufacture.

Plus it actually gets worse. Goto the link that I posted about Canon's lithography equipment. If Canon has to use their own fab equipment in their own fab, then in some cases they have to upgrade that equipment first.... then the fab facility they use to make their own chips .... then their sensors ... and finally the cameras that use them.

THAT is the reason it takes so long.

Where Sony sells chips to everyone else, they get to stay ahead of the curve.
 
mermaidkiller said:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7747501993/sony-introduces-a7r-iv

Today, Sony announced the new A7R4 with 61MP (why so many, the megapixel race is presumably not over yet ?), but some nice features, like (finally !) 5GHz wifi, very high res 5.76 MP viewfinder (should be about 2000x2880), but also lacking 4K 60fps.
Click to expand...
It's not 5.76MP, it's 5.76 million dots, by which they mean subpixels, so it's 1.92MP, which is 1600x1200. And 1600x1200 is called 'UXGA', which matches what Sony said.

Having said all that, that's a very resolution, a lot more than the competition has.
 
dmanthree said:
Sony good! Canon bad! What will we do?

Film at 11.
Click to expand...
It was only a matter of time for one of these threads to pop up.

How can people ever find the time to use their cameras when its too imperative to be the gospel prophet of The Doom of Canon™?
 
mermaidkiller said:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7747501993/sony-introduces-a7r-iv

Today, Sony announced the new A7R4 with 61MP (why so many, the megapixel race is presumably not over yet ?), but some nice features, like (finally !) 5GHz wifi, very high res 5.76 MP viewfinder (should be about 2000x2880), but also lacking 4K 60fps.

And pixel shift allows making 244MP photos (who needs it ??).

Anyway, Sony is absolutely king in sensor technology and Canon is way behind, such as a 3 year old sensor in the EOS R(P) (from the 2016 5Mk4 and 6Mk2 respectively).

I hope the rumored EOS R Pro (fictional name by me) with 60+MP which would be the successor of the 1DX uses a new sensor, maybe the same as the A7R4 ? Same would apply to the Nikon Z8 and Z9 ? But these are just thoughts.

And Sony is now also threatening the lens king Canon with their new 400mm f/2.8 and 200-600 and some other new lenses rivaling the top end EF and RF lenses.

What are your thoughts ?
Click to expand...
 
61/240MP are solutions in search of problems. I don't understand why people freak out when competitors make big announcements. And I would hope folks aren't jumping from system to system everytime someone announces a new camera.
 
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