RP over 80D – tell me if my logic is flawed?

Robegul · Apr 20, 2019

I am thinking of buying the RP instead of the 80D, or 80D replacement. Here’s my logic. Is it sound?

I do mostly travel photography, some landscape and nature. I shoot mostly JPEG, some raw. Had an SLR for decades. I have several large 24 x 36 prints from my camera. I currently have a 60D with 15 – 85 mm Canon lens, plus the 70 – 300 L lens. My main complaint with the current setup is that the 15 – 85 is a good lens, but not great. Pics shot at 70 mm with both lenses shows the 70 – 300 to have significantly better IQ, particularly sharpness.

So I was thinking of the RP: fantastic RF 24 – 105 L lens, no heavier/bulkier than my current combination with this lens (a key criteria why I won’t buy a 6D or some other DSLR), better high ISO performance, better JPEG IQ. On the downside: terrible battery, DR no better than 60D. I also figure I am buying into the RF lens system for the future.

So it looks to me like I gain a lot except for DR, and critically gaining a fantastic quality lens. Am I missing something? I am not interested in switching to Sony, Nikon etc.

Lots of reviews wonder who the RP is for, but it seems to fit my bill. Is my logic flawed?

KCook · Apr 20, 2019

Sounds good to me. I have been shooting with a mirrorless for a few years now. It has become habit to take along an extra battery. Keeping those extra batteries charged up is more of a nuisance.

Also with the RP there will be no crop factor for all those nice EF USM WA primes.

Kelly Cook

beagle1 · Apr 20, 2019

Robegul said:
I am thinking of buying the RP instead of the 80D, or 80D replacement. Here’s my logic. Is it sound?

I do mostly travel photography, some landscape and nature. I shoot mostly JPEG, some raw. Had an SLR for decades. I have several large 24 x 36 prints from my camera. I currently have a 60D with 15 – 85 mm Canon lens, plus the 70 – 300 L lens. My main complaint with the current setup is that the 15 – 85 is a good lens, but not great. Pics shot at 70 mm with both lenses shows the 70 – 300 to have significantly better IQ, particularly sharpness.

So I was thinking of the RP: fantastic RF 24 – 105 L lens, no heavier/bulkier than my current combination with this lens (a key criteria why I won’t buy a 6D or some other DSLR), better high ISO performance, better JPEG IQ. On the downside: terrible battery, DR no better than 60D. I also figure I am buying into the RF lens system for the future.

So it looks to me like I gain a lot except for DR, and critically gaining a fantastic quality lens. Am I missing something? I am not interested in switching to Sony, Nikon etc.

Lots of reviews wonder who the RP is for, but it seems to fit my bill. Is my logic flawed?

you are correct - RP or R is the way to go

and mirrorless can easily use DSLR lens

www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

abc123brian · Apr 20, 2019

I think your logic makes sense. It could be asked why not just buy a different lens for your current 60D, but I'm sure you asked yourself that. For me personally, I'd have a difficult time buying a DSLR today as mirrorless cameras have a lot of advantages for most of what I shoot. I switched from Canon FF DSLR to Fujifilm about 4 years ago and don't regret it. It's not that I have anything against Canon, they didn't offer any real mirrorless options until the last few months. Had they got into the market earlier, it is likely I'd have stayed with all the L lenses I had.

You said you weren't interested in switching, but my advice to you or others reading this with similar questions, is that since the lens mount is changing anyway, it is a better time than any other to switch brands if you are considering it. Existing lenses are adaptable, but you will eventually be replacing them with native lenses. There are also adapters that can make the lenses work on other brands, though not as quick AF.

Robegul · Apr 20, 2019

Thanks,

I would buy a better lens to replace the 15 - 85, but based on my research there is no better lens for the APS-C that gives me roughly the same range as the 15 - 85. If Canon made an L series in this same focal range, I might stick with the APS-C, but I suppose they want people to do exactly what I am thinking of - move up to get the best lenses.

I did consider switching to Sony, but my wife bough the Sony RX10 IV (she had a Canon 60D as well) and neither of us think the ergonomics or menus is very good. Don't want to get into a Sony vs. Canon thing. Her Sony takes great pics, it's just that I found the user friendliness of it not as good as my Canon. So that sort of pointed me back to Canon. And I don't expect to replace the 70 - 300L anytime soon. It is a great lens and should work fine with the RF adapter.

I have also read in several articles that the full frame sensor by definition will have higher IQ than a crop sensor, given equal quality lenses. I tried the RP in the store and took a few snaps with indoor light and they look great.

The 80D is tempting, especially if it comes on sale soon, but that Canon RF 24 - 105 seems like a truly awesome lens.

abc123brian · Apr 20, 2019

If you liked the feel of the RP, that is probably the route for you. The 70-300mm L you have came out before I fully moved away from Canon and I was very tempted by it. I heard great things about it but never used it. I’m not a fan of Canon’s crop sensors. Going from the 50D to an older 5D was a big improvement in IQ back when I shot Canon so I’m sure you will see similar going with the RP.

KCook · Apr 20, 2019

Robegul said:
I did consider switching to Sony, but my wife bough the Sony RX10 IV (she had a Canon 60D as well) and neither of us think the ergonomics or menus is very good. Don't want to get into a Sony vs. Canon thing. Her Sony takes great pics, it's just that I found the user friendliness of it not as good as my Canon.

I have not tried Sony ML (my first DSLR was a Sony A200). But I now use an Olympus mostly and have tried a couple Fujis. None of which quite match the Canon comfort for me. One that might break that barrier is Panasonic, which I have not tried yet.

Kelly

beagle1 · Apr 21, 2019

Robegul said:
Thanks,

I would buy a better lens to replace the 15 - 85, but based on my research there is no better lens for the APS-C that gives me roughly the same range as the 15 - 85. If Canon made an L series in this same focal range, I might stick with the APS-C, but I suppose they want people to do exactly what I am thinking of - move up to get the best lenses.

I did consider switching to Sony, but my wife bough the Sony RX10 IV (she had a Canon 60D as well) and neither of us think the ergonomics or menus is very good. Don't want to get into a Sony vs. Canon thing. Her Sony takes great pics, it's just that I found the user friendliness of it not as good as my Canon. So that sort of pointed me back to Canon. And I don't expect to replace the 70 - 300L anytime soon. It is a great lens and should work fine with the RF adapter.

I have also read in several articles that the full frame sensor by definition will have higher IQ than a crop sensor, given equal quality lenses. I tried the RP in the store and took a few snaps with indoor light and they look great.

The 80D is tempting, especially if it comes on sale soon, but that Canon RF 24 - 105 seems like a truly awesome lens.

24 -105 is awesome for a kit lens ... and full frame is better - but more expensive

www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

Dmitry1l_gatt0 · Apr 24, 2019

Robegul said:
...I tried the RP in the store and took a few snaps with indoor light and they look great.

The 80D is tempting, especially if it comes on sale soon, but that Canon RF 24 - 105 seems like a truly awesome lens.

Hi, Robegul!

Did you actually tried RP with 24 - 105 lens in that store? Just to clarify.

I've played with R and RP at the exhibition some time ago. And for me RP with 35mm RF is a pretty nice and handy little camera. I liked the IQ too compared to my 80D. With big and chunky 50\1.2 or 24-105 both R and RP are not so comfortable to hold though. Actually understood that big'n'fat 5DSR with 100\2.8 L macro feels more balanced to me.

All subjective of course. Just shared my experience.

For myself found the answer - to wait and see what discounts will be on the RP at the end of the year.

Best regards.

Robegul · May 2, 2019

Thanks Dmitry,

Sorry for the slow response - was on vacation and disconnected for awhile, while I took pics in Capitol Reef National Park. My wife's Sony RX10 IV camera has HDR and it made a big difference in the high contrast shadow canyons versus my old camera without HDR (was only taking JPEGS). I hope the HDR on the RP works as well.

Yes, I tried the camera with the 24 - 105 L. I did not try any other lens on it as this is the only one I think I will buy with it, and use most of the time.

For me, it was uncomfortable without the added "base" extension that they sell. I would definitely get that. The extra base made a big difference for me, and with this I found the package was quite comfortable.

Thanks for all the comments.

Cheers

jvc1 · May 3, 2019

I'm not saying the RP isn't a good idea for you but 1 thing to keep in mind. Your 60d doesn't have AFMA, the 80d does. The IQ of my 15-85 improved noticeably when I went from a 60d to an 80d and made some focus adjustments.

Also, I haven't looked into the differences in how the 80d and RP operate. The RP is a low priced entry level full frame. Will it have the operational flexibility you need?

golfhov · May 3, 2019

jvc1 said:
I'm not saying the RP isn't a good idea for you but 1 thing to keep in mind. Your 60d doesn't have AFMA, the 80d does. The IQ of my 15-85 improved noticeably when I went from a 60d to an 80d and made some focus adjustments.

Also, I haven't looked into the differences in how the 80d and RP operate. The RP is a low priced entry level full frame. Will it have the operational flexibility you need?

If you are talking JUST about auto focus micro adjustments it is "almost" a non issue. The RP uses the imaging sensor for auto focus. Focus is achieved onto the correct plane. No need to adjust for discrepancy. The main reason for afma is that very slight misalignment s can cause a camera to focus correctly on the PDAF sensor but that not match up with where the images Ng sensor is at.

jvc1 · May 3, 2019

golfhov said:
If you are talking JUST about auto focus micro adjustments it is "almost" a non issue. The RP uses the imaging sensor for auto focus. Focus is achieved onto the correct plane. No need to adjust for discrepancy. The main reason for afma is that very slight misalignment s can cause a camera to focus correctly on the PDAF sensor but that not match up with where the images Ng sensor is at.

Now there are plenty of other things to discuss outside afma but I am just going to assume those conversations already took place

I was only pointing out that his 15-85 will probably be better on the 80d than it is on his 60d which seemed to be one of his issues.

golfhov · May 3, 2019

Sorry I misunderstood. Now I understand where you were going with AFMA

Robegul · May 5, 2019

I don't think the focus adjustment will help. It's not that I am shooting at f3.5 and they are a tad off, it is just that the lens is not all that sharp no matter what f stop. So at f8 for example, and a distant object, the lens would have to be WAY off to be out of focus. Also at 15mm the lens is a bit soft, so wide angle landscape shots are not the best.

Not to say the 15-85 is a terrible lens. It's just that I think it is not close to an L series.

I took a few shots in the camera store with the RP and 24-105L and brought home the card. The pictures are tack sharp. Did not think of it at the time, but I had my 60D there and should have taken identical pics to compare. Maybe next time.

I think I will wait until maybe labor day or black Friday sales and buy the RP. I work for a manufacturing company and know that in the first few months or year or so of production there can be production problems.

Cheers

golfhov · May 5, 2019

Robegul said:
I don't think the focus adjustment will help. It's not that I am shooting at f3.5 and they are a tad off, it is just that the lens is not all that sharp no matter what f stop. So at f8 for example, and a distant object, the lens would have to be WAY off to be out of focus. Also at 15mm the lens is a bit soft, so wide angle landscape shots are not the best.

well everything is cumulative. If you were the least bit concerned about focusing errors you could take a look at manual focusing or CDAF in liveview to see if it makes a idfference. Always best to try and save yourself money

Robegul said:
Not to say the 15-85 is a terrible lens. It's just that I think it is not close to an L series.

Depends on the lens BUT yes it isn't really fair to compare a cheap plastic kit lens to a better design

Robegul said:
I took a few shots in the camera store with the RP and 24-105L and brought home the card. The pictures are tack sharp. Did not think of it at the time, but I had my 60D there and should have taken identical pics to compare. Maybe next time.

yup. Apples to apples. A lot of stuff is going to look better than your 60D. The question is always "what do YOU value" and is it worth it

Robegul said:
I think I will wait until maybe labor day or black Friday sales and buy the RP.

maybe sounds like you could be pretty happy with it. In the meantime you are missing out on pics that you could get now. BUT I wouldn't be surprised to see some discounts on it before too soon

Robegul said:
I work for a manufacturing company and know that in the first few months or year or so of production there can be production problems.

there "can" be. I haven't seen too much evidence of it though. There are usually enough early adopters here and rabble rousers that possible defects are discussed quickly. Obviously some stuff won't show up for months

Robegul said:
Cheers

Just one last wiggle. Is there a reason you are not considering Sony products?

edit: sorry. I saw that you were NOT interested.

Sounds like you are good to go. Enjoy

jvc1 · May 5, 2019

golfhov said:
golfhov said:

Not to say the 15-85 is a terrible lens. It's just that I think it is not close to an L series.

Click to expand...

Depends on the lens BUT yes it isn't really fair to compare a cheap plastic kit lens to a better design

I'll jump to the defense of the 15-85. It's far from "a cheap plastic kit lens". On "The Digital Picture" lens comparison section, it's IQ is as good as the 24-105, slightly better on the wide end, slightly worse on the long end. Copy variation may give different results. It's not Canon's sharpest lens but neither is the 24-105.

The OP should do as you suggest and compare some shots taken in live view to ones through the viewfinder. AFMA is the one thing that might get me to go mirrorless someday but I won't consider it until the AF for fast action catches up in the midrange options.

golfhov · May 5, 2019

jvc1 said:
golfhov said:

Robegul said:

Not to say the 15-85 is a terrible lens. It's just that I think it is not close to an L series.

Click to expand...

Depends on the lens BUT yes it isn't really fair to compare a cheap plastic kit lens to a better design

Click to expand...

I'll jump to the defense of the 15-85. It's far from "a cheap plastic kit lens".

Yes. My apologies. I should have worded that better. It is definitely a better lens than the cheaper kit lenses and probably represents a decent value if one likes the range and speed

jvc1 said:
On "The Digital Picture" lens comparison section, it's IQ is as good as the 24-105, slightly better on the wide end, slightly worse on the long end. Copy variation may give different results.

Uh......is that comparing the 24-105 on an APSC body? A bit of apples and oranges

jvc1 said:
It's not Canon's sharpest lens but neither is the 24-105.

Fair. And the 15-85 is amongst the best zooms on apsc. While the 24-105 is a bit meh. BUT on ff and with the extra stop at the longer lengths the 24-105 is a see teongee performer

jvc1 said:
The OP should do as you suggest and compare some shots taken in live view to ones through the viewfinder.

Absolutely. Maybe compare different copies too. Perhaps his is defective

jvc1 said:
AFMA is the one thing that might get me to go mirrorless someday

Seriously? What are you shooting with? On smaller sensors and with slower lenses I always find the usually slight misalignments almost a non factor

jvc1 said:
but I won't consider it until the AF for fast action catches up in the midrange options.

This just depends on model. There is FAST and FASTER AF available in mirrorless. Just not with Canon right now.

jvc1 said:
A-
I keep some of my favorite pictures here,
https://www.flickr.com/photos/129958940@N03/

jvc1 · May 6, 2019

golfhov said:
jvc1 said:

golfhov said:

Robegul said:

Not to say the 15-85 is a terrible lens. It's just that I think it is not close to an L series.

Click to expand...

Depends on the lens BUT yes it isn't really fair to compare a cheap plastic kit lens to a better design

Click to expand...

I'll jump to the defense of the 15-85. It's far from "a cheap plastic kit lens".

Click to expand...

Yes. My apologies. I should have worded that better. It is definitely a better lens than the cheaper kit lenses and probably represents a decent value if one likes the range

I agree, the speed isn't great

golfhov said:
golfhov said:

On "The Digital Picture" lens comparison section, it's IQ is as good as the 24-105, slightly better on the wide end, slightly worse on the long end. Copy variation may give different results.

Click to expand...

Uh......is that comparing the 24-105 on an APSC body? A bit of apples and oranges

Well, you can't compare the 2 on FF as the 15-85 is APS-C only.

golfhov said:
golfhov said:

It's not Canon's sharpest lens but neither is the 24-105.

Click to expand...

Fair. And the 15-85 is amongst the best zooms on apsc. While the 24-105 is a bit meh. BUT on ff and with the extra stop at the longer lengths the 24-105 is a see teongee performer

Yes, if I was shooting FF, the 24-105 would probably my walk around choice.

golfhov said:
golfhov said:

The OP should do as you suggest and compare some shots taken in live view to ones through the viewfinder.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. Maybe compare different copies too. Perhaps his is defective

golfhov said:

AFMA is the one thing that might get me to go mirrorless someday

Click to expand...

Seriously? What are you shooting with? On smaller sensors and with slower lenses I always find the usually slight misalignments almost a non factor

For one, my 15-85 it made a noticeable difference. Some lenses it helps, some didn't need it. My gear list shows all the ones I have. Funny though, I haven't had a single STM lens that would benefit from an adjustment.

golfhov said:
golfhov said:

but I won't consider it until the AF for fast action catches up in the midrange options.

Click to expand...

This just depends on model. There is FAST and FASTER AF available in mirrorless. Just not with Canon right now.

Agreed, I'm too invested in Canon to switch systems plus I'm very happy with it.

golfhov said:
golfhov said:

A-
I keep some of my favorite pictures here,
https://www.flickr.com/photos/129958940@N03/

Click to expand...

memakr · May 8, 2019

I once owned a 15-85mm on Crop too. Despite the fact I really enjoyed it (mostly due to the versatile zoom range especially the 24mm@Fullframe), Color Rendering), using the 24-105Kit on FF is a different, a better story. For landscape, resolution in 1:1 Ratio is much better, providing significant more details.

The RF24-105 is even much better than the EF Version. Using it together with the RP should give you a significant boost over the 60D+15-85 combination. Even if the DR at base ISO is behind it rivals in FF-sector, recovery of highlights and shadows is way better compared to the 60D. The 80D has better DR at base ISO though, anyway landscape IQ in sum should more pleaseant on the RP, assuming you are shooting in RAW of course. (I only compared a 60D/70D and 80D to the 6D which I own beside a new Canon R)

But the real advantage on FF is the possibility to use wider lenses - like the attractive 16-35 f4.

cheers

memakr

RP over 80D – tell me if my logic is flawed?

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