Sony RX10 IV low light and prints

Looking to buy a camera primarily for close-ups and portraits of mushrooms and related forest denizens. The Sony RX10 IV sounds amazing and could get me up close without having to deal with the headaches of "true" macro photography. However, I mostly shoot on overcast days, in late afternoon sunlight, or in the shadows on bright sunny days. I understand that APS-c and FF sensors are much better for low light detail and avoidance of noise, but....

Is there any way to use this kind of point and shoot camera (it has a 1" sensor) and still get a good quality 11 x 14 print from a shot taken in lower light conditions?

I can do long exposures if necessary, and am willing to do any PP I have to. Would also consider some kind of lighting setup, tho I'd rather not have to.

Thanks!

Obviously if there is a better camera for this purpose (while avoiding having to focus stack and all that), then I want to know!

Honeyshroom said:

Obviously if there is a better camera for this purpose (while avoiding having to focus stack and all that), then I want to know!

Click to expand...

Well, I am not sure why you "run away" from the Pentax forum, because you really could get good advice and inspirations, as what would suit to your intentions best. Definitely Pentax cameras, like KP (APS-C) or K1 (FF) are far better than the RX10.

flektogon said:

Honeyshroom said:

Obviously if there is a better camera for this purpose (while avoiding having to focus stack and all that), then I want to know!

Click to expand...

Well, I am not sure why you "run away" from the Pentax forum, because you really could get good advice and inspirations, as what would suit to your intentions best. Definitely Pentax cameras, like KP (APS-C) or K1 (FF) are far better than the RX10 at high ISO.

Click to expand...

Maybe he is willing to compromise some high ISO low light performance for the all in one convenience of a camera like the RX10iv. Since he mentioned 11x14 prints Imaging Resource said this in their review of the RX10iii;

"ISO 1600 delivers a good 11 x 14 inch print. There are a few mild and fairly typical issues with noise in flatter areas of our target and not much contrast detail remaining in our red-leaf swatch, but otherwise the print has good fine detail and full colors present at this size."

If ISO 1600 id high enough then the RX10iv will suit his purpose.

tbcass said:

flektogon said:

Honeyshroom said:

Obviously if there is a better camera for this purpose (while avoiding having to focus stack and all that), then I want to know!

Click to expand...

Well, I am not sure why you "run away" from the Pentax forum, because you really could get good advice and inspirations, as what would suit to your intentions best. Definitely Pentax cameras, like KP (APS-C) or K1 (FF) are far better than the RX10 at high ISO.

Click to expand...

Maybe he is willing to compromise some high ISO low light performance for the all in one convenience of a camera like the RX10iv. Since he mentioned 11x14 prints Imaging Resource said this in their review of the RX10iii;

"ISO 1600 delivers a good 11 x 14 inch print. There are a few mild and fairly typical issues with noise in flatter areas of our target and not much contrast detail remaining in our red-leaf swatch, but otherwise the print has good fine detail and full colors present at this size."

If ISO 1600 id high enough then the RX10iv will suit his purpose.

Click to expand...

O.K. Before OP removed his (the same) question from the Pentax forum (he placed it there apparently by a mistake), I replied that he can't expect any good video from the Pentax cameras, but the still pictures will be definitely better. So, this is what I would consider as a compromise, i.e. worse picture quality at lower light (and this is what he expects to do), but to have just one tool for both, the photo and video. However, if he doesn't plan to shoot video, then there are definitely better cameras, including the Pentax brand.

I had no problem with 8x10" with these photos.

Honeyshroom said:

Looking to buy a camera primarily for close-ups and portraits of mushrooms and related forest denizens. The Sony RX10 IV sounds amazing and could get me up close without having to deal with the headaches of "true" macro photography. However, I mostly shoot on overcast days, in late afternoon sunlight, or in the shadows on bright sunny days. I understand that APS-c and FF sensors are much better for low light detail and avoidance of noise, but....

Click to expand...

I use external flash for my macro work. I get to shoot at ISO 100 and the flash duration freezes any camera or subject (wind) movement. I have a Nissin i40 flash and an extension cable. Exclusively shoot TTL flash with occasional flash EV adjustment.

RX10M4 best camera I have ever owned including APS-C with 5 lenses several years ago.

my 0.02

Cheers,
Bert

Honeyshroom said:

Obviously if there is a better camera for this purpose (while avoiding having to focus stack and all that), then I want to know!

Click to expand...

You can buy a purpose-specific camera that will easily top the RX10 shooting mushrooms, but the Sony is a jack-of-all-trades that's essentially meant to replace an entire camera bag full of lenses; if you want to shoot some mushrooms, then get a few landscapes, maybe shoot some birds, all with the same camera and no extra lenses - that's the RX10.

Honeyshroom said:

Looking to buy a camera primarily for close-ups and portraits of mushrooms and related forest denizens. The Sony RX10 IV sounds amazing and could get me up close without having to deal with the headaches of "true" macro photography. However, I mostly shoot on overcast days, in late afternoon sunlight, or in the shadows on bright sunny days. I understand that APS-c and FF sensors are much better for low light detail and avoidance of noise, but....

Is there any way to use this kind of point and shoot camera (it has a 1" sensor) and still get a good quality 11 x 14 print from a shot taken in lower light conditions?

I can do long exposures if necessary, and am willing to do any PP I have to. Would also consider some kind of lighting setup, tho I'd rather not have to.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Hi Honeyshroom,

If you’re happy to do longer(er) exposures, then here’s a couple of low-light images from my RX10 IV. These were shot in my study where the ambient lighting was so dim, I could hardly make out the '70D' with my naked eyes - these have ISO values of 100, 800, 1600 and 3200.

(Note these were shot raw and post processed in Lightroom).

If this image quality is acceptable to you, the RX10 IV is certainly something to consider.

Phil

SoCalWill said:

Honeyshroom said:

Obviously if there is a better camera for this purpose (while avoiding having to focus stack and all that), then I want to know!

Click to expand...

You can buy a purpose-specific camera that will easily top the RX10 shooting mushrooms, but the Sony is a jack-of-all-trades that's essentially meant to replace an entire camera bag full of lenses; if you want to shoot some mushrooms, then get a few landscapes, maybe shoot some birds, all with the same camera and no extra lenses - that's the RX10.

Click to expand...

& best of all no delays fiddling about changing lenses as you always have the correct lens on the camera.

If you are willing to shoot in jpeg, then the RX10iv’s Multi-frame Noise Reduction and Anti-motion Blur mode work very well for low light, especially with stationary objects like mushrooms. MFNR can be set and used in any mode, so you can fiddle with aperture for greater depth of field...or shoot a sequence for focus stacking. In really low light I use a day-light balanced LED flashlight (not a flash on the camera...an actual flashlight). You need to find one with a “low” setting because of high beam they are too bright for macro work. The flashlight allows for all kinds of supplemental light as you can direct it where you want it or bounce it off something for a more gentle effect. I really like working from 4 feet at 600mm.

flektogon said:

O.K. Before OP removed his (the same) question from the Pentax forum (he placed it there apparently by a mistake),

Click to expand...

It was probably moved by a moderator. They do that sometimes.

flektogon said:

However, if he doesn't plan to shoot video, then there are definitely better cameras, including the Pentax brand.

Click to expand...

"Better" means many things. If an all in one zoom camera the size of a small DSLR with excellent AF tracking is of high importance then the RX10iv could be considered better than any Pentax made. If the best IQ is of supreme importance than Pentax is better. No single type of camera or brand is best at everything.

tbcass said:

flektogon said:

O.K. Before OP removed his (the same) question from the Pentax forum (he placed it there apparently by a mistake),

Click to expand...

It was probably moved by a moderator. They do that sometimes.

tbcass said:

However, if he doesn't plan to shoot video, then there are definitely better cameras, including the Pentax brand.

Click to expand...

"Better" means many things. If an all in one zoom camera the size of a small DSLR with excellent AF tracking is of high importance then the RX10iv could be considered better than any Pentax made. If the best IQ is of supreme importance than Pentax is better. No single type of camera or brand is best at everything.

Click to expand...

Of course "better" can have many meanings. But if OP really wants to have the most suitable "camera primarily for close-ups and portraits of mushrooms and related forest denizens ", then the RX10IV is far from the best choice. He doesn't need such huge (if at all) zoom range, he doesn't need ultra fast AF capabilities, neither super video capabilities. They are costly and he has no use usage of them. He needs rather a camera delivering pictures with very good resolution and low noise, camera with a tiltable LCD and a lens (even of a fixed focal length) with some macro capabilities. There are dozens of cameras fulfilling such needs. He posted his question on the Pentax forum, that's why (as a Pentax user) I replied him. I would recommend him for example the Pentax KP body (it has everything what would be important for his needs) plus a lens like Tamron 90/2.8 Macro (what I have as well), or if he wants to be completely WR, then the Pentax DA 20-40/2.8-4.0 lens. It is a fantastic combination. But there are others, some even much cheaper. For example my grandson is absolutely happy with the Panasonic G7 (and just kit lenses), witch is far cheaper, and with a better lens would easily beat the RX10. But if his camera must be a Sony 1" one, then why not the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 IV. If nothing else, it is at least far smaller and lighter.

Regards,
Peter

OP here. I'm very willing to look at APS-C cameras, but it sure would be nice to get the best quality images I can get (shooting mushrooms, etc. up close in lowish light) without having to use an interchangeable lens camera.

Changing lenses is one of the reasons I'm on the fence about APS-C and FF cameras.

The other reason is that (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) DOF is deeper on a smaller sensor. I prefer to have deeper DOF. I could focus stack, but the idea of carrying a laptop around in the woods, or doing it manually and then trying to learn focus-stacking software is very daunting to me. Focus rail is out of the question.

Which leads to another question - how does in camera focus stacking measure up to manual or Helicon Remote Focus stacking? Should I consider a camera that does it for me?

So, I'm interested in the best bridge/P and S camera for my purpose. But also interested in APS-C/FF if it will significantly better and not be too much trouble.

Thanks for all of your responses so far!

flektogon said:

tbcass said:

flektogon said:

Honeyshroom said:

Obviously if there is a better camera for this purpose (while avoiding having to focus stack and all that), then I want to know!

Click to expand...

Well, I am not sure why you "run away" from the Pentax forum, because you really could get good advice and inspirations, as what would suit to your intentions best. Definitely Pentax cameras, like KP (APS-C) or K1 (FF) are far better than the RX10 at high ISO.

Click to expand...

Maybe he is willing to compromise some high ISO low light performance for the all in one convenience of a camera like the RX10iv. Since he mentioned 11x14 prints Imaging Resource said this in their review of the RX10iii;

"ISO 1600 delivers a good 11 x 14 inch print. There are a few mild and fairly typical issues with noise in flatter areas of our target and not much contrast detail remaining in our red-leaf swatch, but otherwise the print has good fine detail and full colors present at this size."

If ISO 1600 id high enough then the RX10iv will suit his purpose.

Click to expand...

O.K. Before OP removed his (the same) question from the Pentax forum (he placed it there apparently by a mistake), I replied that he can't expect any good video from the Pentax cameras, but the still pictures will be definitely better. So, this is what I would consider as a compromise, i.e. worse picture quality at lower light (and this is what he expects to do), but to have just one tool for both, the photo and video. However, if he doesn't plan to shoot video, then there are definitely better cameras, including the Pentax brand.

Click to expand...

Yeah I posted in the Pentax forum by mistake lol. The Pentax KP sounds really great tho! Being weather sealed is a nice bonus. Have you done much macro with it?

Video is of no concern to me. And I don't need nearly the zoom of the Sony RX10. It just seemed like it was one of the best compact cameras for macro and image quality (for a compact camera)

Honeyshroom said:

So, I'm interested in the best bridge/P and S camera for my purpose. But also interested in APS-C/FF if it will significantly better and not be too much trouble.

Click to expand...

The APS-C/FF will be significantly better for your purpose, but if you want one camera that will do everything without changing lenses, get the RX10.

Honeyshroom said:

flektogon said:

tbcass said:

flektogon said:

Honeyshroom said:

Obviously if there is a better camera for this purpose (while avoiding having to focus stack and all that), then I want to know!

Click to expand...

Well, I am not sure why you "run away" from the Pentax forum, because you really could get good advice and inspirations, as what would suit to your intentions best. Definitely Pentax cameras, like KP (APS-C) or K1 (FF) are far better than the RX10 at high ISO.

Click to expand...

Maybe he is willing to compromise some high ISO low light performance for the all in one convenience of a camera like the RX10iv. Since he mentioned 11x14 prints Imaging Resource said this in their review of the RX10iii;

"ISO 1600 delivers a good 11 x 14 inch print. There are a few mild and fairly typical issues with noise in flatter areas of our target and not much contrast detail remaining in our red-leaf swatch, but otherwise the print has good fine detail and full colors present at this size."

If ISO 1600 id high enough then the RX10iv will suit his purpose.

Click to expand...

O.K. Before OP removed his (the same) question from the Pentax forum (he placed it there apparently by a mistake), I replied that he can't expect any good video from the Pentax cameras, but the still pictures will be definitely better. So, this is what I would consider as a compromise, i.e. worse picture quality at lower light (and this is what he expects to do), but to have just one tool for both, the photo and video. However, if he doesn't plan to shoot video, then there are definitely better cameras, including the Pentax brand.

Click to expand...

Yeah I posted in the Pentax forum by mistake lol. The Pentax KP sounds really great tho! Being weather sealed is a nice bonus. Have you done much macro with it?

Video is of no concern to me. And I don't need nearly the zoom of the Sony RX10. It just seemed like it was one of the best compact cameras for macro and image quality (for a compact camera)

Click to expand...

Well, I am not a "macro" specialist, I am rather "naturalist", so I am shooting mostly the nature around our area. Here are few latest pictures taken with my Pentax gear. Don't take me wrong, under such conditions (as my pictures were taken), any camera would succeed, including the RX10. Just if you do not care about the video, then I consider cameras like RX10 the "overkill".









































--
Regards,
Peter

Honeyshroom said:

OP here. I'm very willing to look at APS-C cameras, but it sure would be nice to get the best quality images I can get (shooting mushrooms, etc. up close in lowish light) without having to use an interchangeable lens camera.

Changing lenses is one of the reasons I'm on the fence about APS-C and FF cameras.

The other reason is that (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) DOF is deeper on a smaller sensor. I prefer to have deeper DOF. I could focus stack, but the idea of carrying a laptop around in the woods, or doing it manually and then trying to learn focus-stacking software is very daunting to me. Focus rail is out of the question.

Which leads to another question - how does in camera focus stacking measure up to manual or Helicon Remote Focus stacking? Should I consider a camera that does it for me?

So, I'm interested in the best bridge/P and S camera for my purpose. But also interested in APS-C/FF if it will significantly better and not be too much trouble.

Thanks for all of your responses so far!

Click to expand...

What do you mean by low light? In any daylight situation like cloudy days or a shaded forest the RX10iv will do a good job. Considering the subjects you describe don't require true macro, the 1" sensor has deeper DOF than larger sensors and the fact that the RX10iv focuses closest at 600mm allowing a convenient distance from your subject the camera does a great job at close up photography.

I have taken macros with everything from 1/1.7" sensors, 1" sensors, APS-C and Full frame sensors. With the larger sensors the extremely shallow DOF is a real problem and some of the best macros I have taken were with the smallest sensor cameras. You can use stacking software but that means time spent and money for the software. It also requires the subject be perfectly still so a flower blowing in the breeze or a moving insect will be a problem.



--
Tom

Thank you everyone for your help! Technology has come a long way since I bought my Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H5! I've come to the conclusion that I don't need FF or even APS-c. Going with M43 instead. Didn't need that long zoom either lol.

Honeyshroom said:

Thank you everyone for your help! Technology has come a long way since I bought my Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H5! I've come to the conclusion that I don't need FF or even APS-c. Going with M43 instead. Didn't need that long zoom either lol.

Click to expand...

Yes, the Sony H5 was a fantastic camera (at its time ), I still keep mine and from time to time even use it. But your decision the replace it with a M43 is not a bad idea. I would recommend to you right the way to wait a month or two and to get the Panasonic Lumix DC-G95/G90, as it is right now described in the news section of DPReview.