nothing wrong with good quality small cameras, oly xz1 and canon 5dmk2 at the same venue these are heavy crops and af used on both cameras.

Don

96857573021147df89a37b8287839013.jpg

8bfa81072fb84b7980732221923f7a61.jpg
Another false comparison from you , Donald. The Canon shot would be much better if you used the same 1/60 shutter speed and -1/3 EC, and had focused properly. You admit below that you didn't know how to use the Canon. Why imply this shows a comparison of camera body capabilities if one of the images images hasn't been taken properly?
dslr are hopeless at accurate af period. i processed the the 500 images the other pro took in the studio and the af was all over the place, why i moved to em5 cameras.

Don

--
Olympus EM5mk2 ,EM1mk2
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/9412035244
past toys. k100d, k10d,k7,fz5,fz150,500uz,canon G9,there Olympus xz1 em5mk1
And yet there are millions of sharp in focus images taken with DSLRS so either the camera was bad or the photographer was at fault. You really shouldn’t make a blanket statement that is factually inaccurate.

--
Don Lacy
 
The fallacy of 35mm "equivalent focal lengths"
Sets up a straw man and imagines blowing it over with a single puff.

Look, it's good that you try to work through these problems in order to buy the right camera, but you haven't found a fallacy. It's more useful to ask questions than to tilt at windmills.
You can discuss or you can just troll.
I'm quoting this post in its entirety to take up as much of the remaining posting limit as possible.
Adding unnecessary text to your posts doesn't change the number of posts in the thread.

Regarding your counterargument, from your previous reply that I didn't bother to respond to since it was already covered in other posts here, your link does not appear to be to DPR (????), and given what amounts to the working definition of "equivalent focal lengths" (and I'm repeating myself here as it appears necessary to do so) compared to the "28-105mm equivalent focal length" DPR (and others) list for the S95 my NIKKOR 50/1.8D has a "50-150mm equivalent focal length" (see here).
 
The fallacy of 35mm "equivalent focal lengths"
Sets up a straw man and imagines blowing it over with a single puff.

Look, it's good that you try to work through these problems in order to buy the right camera, but you haven't found a fallacy. It's more useful to ask questions than to tilt at windmills.
You can discuss or you can just troll.
I'm quoting this post in its entirety to take up as much of the remaining posting limit as possible.
Adding unnecessary text to your posts doesn't change the number of posts in the thread.

Regarding your counterargument, from your previous reply that I didn't bother to respond to since it was already covered in other posts here, your link does not appear to be to DPR (????), and given what amounts to the working definition of "equivalent focal lengths" (and I'm repeating myself here as it appears necessary to do so) compared to the "28-105mm equivalent focal length" DPR (and others) list for the S95 my NIKKOR 50/1.8D has a "50-150mm equivalent focal length" (see here).
Your 50-150 can have any equivalent focal length down to cropping it to a single pixel.

Again, "equivalent focal length" is NOT ABOUT RESOLVING POWER!!! It's only about angle-of-view. Period.

What you're talking about isn't "equivalent focal length", it's usually called "image scale" which is usually measured in arc-seconds per pixel.
 
The fallacy of 35mm "equivalent focal lengths"
Sets up a straw man and imagines blowing it over with a single puff.

Look, it's good that you try to work through these problems in order to buy the right camera, but you haven't found a fallacy. It's more useful to ask questions than to tilt at windmills.
You can discuss or you can just troll.
I'm quoting this post in its entirety to take up as much of the remaining posting limit as possible.
Adding unnecessary text to your posts doesn't change the number of posts in the thread.

Regarding your counterargument, from your previous reply that I didn't bother to respond to since it was already covered in other posts here, your link does not appear to be to DPR (????), and given what amounts to the working definition of "equivalent focal lengths" (and I'm repeating myself here as it appears necessary to do so) compared to the "28-105mm equivalent focal length" DPR (and others) list for the S95 my NIKKOR 50/1.8D has a "50-150mm equivalent focal length" (see here).
Your 50-150 can have any equivalent focal length down to cropping it to a single pixel.
The number I arrived at was not random. The standard I'm using is the same one that would apply to the S95, so in that regard they are equally capable.
Again, "equivalent focal length" is NOT ABOUT RESOLVING POWER!!! It's only about angle-of-view. Period.
I can apply whatever AOV I want after the shot is taken. Resolution will be a big determinant in whether its useful or not; so no, not one pixel, but enough to match the S95.
What you're talking about isn't "equivalent focal length", it's usually called "image scale" which is usually measured in arc-seconds per pixel.
 
. . . Here's the thing. You could walk around with a 28mm lens attached to a 35mm format camera and crop down its files to whatever AOV suits you . . .
True, but as mentioned in an earlier post, my preference is to compose in the viewfinder and not crop later. I also like to use straight-out-of-camera JPEG's, no image-editing needed (though I do downsize a few if I want to send them in an e-mail to a friend or family member).
 
Camera equivalence theory does not take into consideration any of these factors:
  • Megapixels
  • Lens aberrations
  • Sensor read noise
  • Camera processing or post-processing for the most part
  • Bokeh (the quality of blur)
  • Dynamic range
  • Highlight headroom
  • Shadow noise
  • Image aspect ratio
  • Sensor technology and quantum efficiency
  • Angle of view of lenses that aren't rectilinear
  • Lens transmissivity (T-stops vs f/stops)
  • Film vs. digital
  • Lens microcontrast and modulation transfer functions (MTF)
  • Changing camera positions or perspective changes
  • Color, contrast, saturation, or sharpness
  • Ergonomics
...take them all into account:


This essay is about relating different systems on the basis of six parameters (perspective, framing, DOF / diffraction / total amount of light on the sensor, exposure time, lightness, and display size) and defining "equivalent photos" as photos that share these six visual properties (exposure time becomes a visual property in terms of the resulting motion blur).

But why these six properties and not others, such as noise, detail, dynamic range, color, bokeh, distortion, etc., etc., etc.? The reason is that these six properties are independent of the technology. However, with proper assumptions about the technology, these other attributes can be added in to the equation, and this essay goes into great depth on those points (with special attention being paid to noise, detail, and dynamic range).

Equivalence only describes how photography changes with scale or size. It is pure geometry with a little physics and nothing else. It is simply an application of the geometric Law of Similar Triangles, or what is called isometry in the sciences. Equivalence is the stuff that's pretty much always guaranteed to be true, at least approximately, without regard to specific technologies or brands or times or practices, and it describes 19th century photography as well as 21st century photography, DSLRs, Mirrorless, large format, smartphones, etc., without bias.

Of course you can put any of the above factors into an equivalence analysis (and sometimes you have to) but then the theory becomes very specific and no longer generally applicable, and you risk "losing the forest for the trees", getting lost in specific minutiae.
As with all things, the more specific one wants to be, the more factors that need to be accounted for.
 
nothing wrong with good quality small cameras, oly xz1 and canon 5dmk2 at the same venue these are heavy crops and af used on both cameras.

Don

96857573021147df89a37b8287839013.jpg

8bfa81072fb84b7980732221923f7a61.jpg
Both are pretty bad (I know you are a good photographer; you had dreadful lighting here). Did you take both?

The Canon shot is just awful - completely out of focus. In focus it would likely have been the better of the two. That model of Canon can definitely do a lot better than that in poor lighting.
I was asked to shoot this image with a 5dmk 2 I was covering the event with my k7 with a studio setup and the main photographer asked me to use her camera, I was interested in a comparison so I ran down stairs and got my xz1 for a quick test shot. the lighting was stage lighting only their was about 200 students on the stage and as I said this is like a %500 crop I processed all the images for the night and my k7 blew the canon away for the studio work and my little xz1 did the same :-0 the af on the canon was pathetic and this was the best shot I took with it. its why ive never bought a ff they just don't work for me and what I shoot. GB loves this image :-)

Don
...is how you claim that because you crashed when driving a Ferrari, that Ferraris are bad cars. ;-)
 
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. . . Here's the thing. You could walk around with a 28mm lens attached to a 35mm format camera and crop down its files to whatever AOV suits you . . .
True, but as mentioned in an earlier post, my preference is to compose in the viewfinder and not crop later. I also like to use straight-out-of-camera JPEG's, no image-editing needed (though I do downsize a few if I want to send them in an e-mail to a friend or family member).
I'm not sure OOC JPEGs is relevant to this discussion, but I did write:
...other considerations would be:
  • cost
  • weight
  • convenience
  • resolution
Much of that could well favor the compact camera, particularly if the light is decent.
FWIW, I mostly use primes and do my best to try and pre-visualize what I want to do and choose which focal length works best for that purpose.

I'm not here to pick fights, I'm just stating an observation I made which for me renders the marketing of "equivalent focal lengths" meaningless. Everyone is entitled to see things their own way.
 
How difficult can it be to understand equivalent focal lengths concerning different sensor sized cameras and lenses. About as straight forward mathematically as you can get. Sounds like the original poster is adding in stuff for cropping images in post process. How could this be construed to affect equivalent focal lengths?
 
The fallacy of 35mm "equivalent focal lengths"
Sets up a straw man and imagines blowing it over with a single puff.

Look, it's good that you try to work through these problems in order to buy the right camera, but you haven't found a fallacy. It's more useful to ask questions than to tilt at windmills.
You can discuss or you can just troll.
I'm quoting this post in its entirety to take up as much of the remaining posting limit as possible.
Adding unnecessary text to your posts doesn't change the number of posts in the thread.

Regarding your counterargument, from your previous reply that I didn't bother to respond to since it was already covered in other posts here, your link does not appear to be to DPR (????), and given what amounts to the working definition of "equivalent focal lengths" (and I'm repeating myself here as it appears necessary to do so) compared to the "28-105mm equivalent focal length" DPR (and others) list for the S95 my NIKKOR 50/1.8D has a "50-150mm equivalent focal length" (see here).
Your 50-150 can have any equivalent focal length down to cropping it to a single pixel.
The number I arrived at was not random. The standard I'm using is the same one that would apply to the S95, so in that regard they are equally capable.
So, everyone everywhere should base their equivalent calculations on your S95? That's silly.
Again, "equivalent focal length" is NOT ABOUT RESOLVING POWER!!! It's only about angle-of-view. Period.
I can apply whatever AOV I want after the shot is taken.
Right!
Resolution will be a big determinant in whether its useful or not;
And for different purposes, it will be different, which is why we don't use that as a standard.
so no, not one pixel, but enough to match the S95.
The S95 is not some sort of standard.
What you're talking about isn't "equivalent focal length", it's usually called "image scale" which is usually measured in arc-seconds per pixel.
It's funny you crossed that out, since you should have actually tried to learn what it said. It's a common term in astrophotography.
 
How difficult can it be to understand equivalent focal lengths concerning different sensor sized cameras and lenses. About as straight forward mathematically as you can get. Sounds like the original poster is adding in stuff for cropping images in post process. How could this be construed to affect equivalent focal lengths?
Because equivalent focal lengths is about nothing but angle of view and cropping changes angle of view.

What the OP is doing is equating the limit with whatever his S95 is producing resolution wise as though the S95 were some sort of industry standard.
 
The equivalent focal length gives the [diagonal] angle of view of the scene that is projected on the sensor. Photos with equivalent focal lengths of the same scene from the same position will have the same [diagonal] framing.

Reach is often characterized by the system with the greater pixel density since, for a given focal length, the system with the greater pixel density will put more pixels on the subject ("more pixels per duck" is the usual phrase).

However, it's not merely the number of pixels, but the sharpness of the lens. So, we can say that System A and System B have the same reach if System A and System B resolve the same detail on the subject from the same position.
Preface

Ironically, even here at DPR equivalent focal lengths are often divorced from a complete understanding of what is or isn't equivalent. There is this idea that if a lens covers a certain FOV on a given format then it is somehow equivalent to whatever focal length that would cover that FOV on a 35mm format camera.

[This is a good place to suggest to anyone that doesn't want to read a long post (I usually don't like reading long posts) that you might want to skip to the picture below and take a long look at it and draw your own conclusions. Just be prepared for me alluding back to the "Getting into the weeds" portion of this post if you have any questions or concerns about what I'm presenting.]

The reason for this post is that I got to thinking about "reach" the other day as I was researching a compact camera to give my girlfriend for her upcoming birthday. “Reach” is one of the factors I was considering, and I’ve settled on a Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS70 with (among other features I think will be valuable to have) its 20 MP sensor and a 30x zoom. However, I don’t for a minute buy into the “24-720 mm equivalent focal length” which is how the camera is marketed (for instance, here and here). Will this new camera get more reach than the Canon PowerShot S95 it will be replacing? Undoubtedly, but I will have more to say about that later this week when I have the new camera in hand. Will it get more reach than I have with my D800, NIKKOR 70-200/2.8 VR and TC-14eII? I'm thinking it should, but that too remains to be seen.

Getting into the weeds

There are three things that add up to reach:

1.) Optics -- which includes the actual focal length (and not the equivalent focal length), and just how good the optics are (I looked at a 70-300mm lens for my D800 and it was sent back because it didn't have any more resolution at 300mm than the 200mm lens focal length I already had).

2.) Pixel density -- which is essentially how many linear pixels in a mm of the image circle covered.

3.) Aperture diameter -- which is what true equivalence is all about. As it relates to reach small apertures have more diffraction, and because smaller apertures restrict light coming to the sensor the exposure ends up being noisier which in turn negatively effects resolution.

Given all of that, what is the actual “equivalent” focal length of the Canon PowerShot S95 compared to what I routinely get with my D800? After some testing with various lenses I concluded that at 35mm my NIKKOR 28-70/2.8D matches the longest focal length of my S95, so it's a third of the published 105mm "equivalent" focal length of that compact camera. I expect the DC-ZS70 to do better than the S95 with its 129mm lens rather than the 22.5mm lens on the S95, and with its 840 pixels per linear millimeter rather than the 490 pixels per linear millimeter on the S95.

Will the DC-ZS70 do better than what I get from my D800 with my longest current focal length? Well here's the math so far for the D800 compared to the S95:

At 35mm my D800 with its 204 pixels per linear millimeter beats my S95 at 22.5mm with its 490 pixels per linear millimeter. That's not true of all the lenses I tested, and some could possibly do even better, but I did test my old NIKKOR 18-70 DX kit lens and at 50mm it barely matched the S95. One might have expected the S95 having 2.4x as much linear resolution as my D800 at the sensor level would translate to its 22.5mm lens being equivalent to a 54mm lens, and while reasonably close to that it's only 65% of the way there (35mm rather than 54mm). Some of this is about optics, for sure; but as I will show in the visual examples below diffraction is also a factor.

Maybe I should break out my D300 and crop its final output to 4:3 aspect ratio, which would work out to 10.8 MP and be a bit closer to the 9.98 MP for the S95, but at 181 pixels per linear millimeter that's only a difference in linear resolution per millimeter of 12.5% more for the D800 (i.e., it's barely noticeable). The thing is when it comes to focal length equivalence (if you define that as reach rather than FOV coverage area) is that it's not about the sensor's format or aspect ratio, it's about the relative pixel densities -- so if I put one of my 105mm focal length lenses on my D300 you're going to have a hard time at the pixel level telling the difference between its output on that camera and its output on my D800 (the one thing that will be obviously different will be the FOV, but that's not reach).

Given all of that, I'm expecting the reach of the ZS70 at about 105mm to beat my current longest lens on my D800. I'll try to test that hypothesis next week. In the meantime...

A picture is worth a 1000 words (if not more)

Okay, so now comes the visual evidence to back up what I'm writing about here:

[IMG width="400px" alt="As always, it's important to view this at its "original size" or "100% zoom.""]http://photos.imageevent.com/tonybeach/mypicturesfolder/sharing//Untitled-1_2.jpg[/IMG]
As always, it's important to view this at its "original size" or "100% zoom."

My final thoughts (for this post)

For me that upper right crop at f/22 says a lot. Why? Because the aperture diameter at f/22 for a 90mm lens is 4.09mm, and that's (essentially) the same aperture diameter as f/5.6 for the 22.5mm lens used on the S95 (4.02mm). The middle crops are basically "web size," which in this context is the full frame of the S95 file and the equivalent FOV of the D800 file both sized to 1080 vertical pixels in height -- and for all practical purposes that's enough for a lot of people, and if that's the case I could probably have taken a good 20mm lens and gotten "good enough" results on my D800 under these conditions.
 
Last edited:
nothing wrong with good quality small cameras, oly xz1 and canon 5dmk2 at the same venue these are heavy crops and af used on both cameras.

Don

96857573021147df89a37b8287839013.jpg

8bfa81072fb84b7980732221923f7a61.jpg
Both are pretty bad (I know you are a good photographer; you had dreadful lighting here). Did you take both?

The Canon shot is just awful - completely out of focus. In focus it would likely have been the better of the two. That model of Canon can definitely do a lot better than that in poor lighting.
I was asked to shoot this image with a 5dmk 2 I was covering the event with my k7 with a studio setup and the main photographer asked me to use her camera, I was interested in a comparison so I ran down stairs and got my xz1 for a quick test shot. the lighting was stage lighting only their was about 200 students on the stage and as I said this is like a %500 crop I processed all the images for the night and my k7 blew the canon away for the studio work and my little xz1 did the same :-0 the af on the canon was pathetic and this was the best shot I took with it. its why ive never bought a ff they just don't work for me and what I shoot. GB loves this image :-)

Don
It was probably because you hadn't used the 5D before - there is no way it could have been such a successful camera if the autofocus really was that bad
I processed the 500 images taken with the 5d from the second studio setup from the other working pro and the af was all over the place. i moved to mirrorless for accurate af plain and simple. my k7 was good but my em5 cameras are on another planet for af accuracy.

Don
Don, Im afraid that the only thing that was on another planet was you as photographer. Admit it, that is nothing but a lousy photography job not related to a camera or equivalence or anything like that. But of course, when we don't know how to take photos, it is always the tools to blame

I remember these photos. They were shot 7 years ago. Any skilled photographer could have easily corrected the lighting in no time but I remember that 7 years ago you didn't have a clue how to use photoshop so the only one to blame here is the photographer. The camera has absolutely nothing to do with that.

And BTW, GB was right.

Moti

--
http://www.musicalpix.com
 
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nothing wrong with good quality small cameras, oly xz1 and canon 5dmk2 at the same venue these are heavy crops and af used on both cameras.

Don

96857573021147df89a37b8287839013.jpg

8bfa81072fb84b7980732221923f7a61.jpg
Another false comparison from you , Donald. The Canon shot would be much better if you used the same 1/60 shutter speed and -1/3 EC, and had focused properly. You admit below that you didn't know how to use the Canon. Why imply this shows a comparison of camera body capabilities if one of the images images hasn't been taken properly?
dslr are hopeless at accurate af period. i processed the the 500 images the other pro took in the studio and the af was all over the place, why i moved to em5 cameras.

Don
As usual Don, it is always easier to blame the tool when we don't know what to do with it. I'm afraid that in this case, the only one that was hopeless is the photographer, not the camera.

Moti

--
 
The fallacy of 35mm "equivalent focal lengths"
Sets up a straw man and imagines blowing it over with a single puff.

Look, it's good that you try to work through these problems in order to buy the right camera, but you haven't found a fallacy. It's more useful to ask questions than to tilt at windmills.
You can discuss or you can just troll.
I'm quoting this post in its entirety to take up as much of the remaining posting limit as possible.
Adding unnecessary text to your posts doesn't change the number of posts in the thread.

Regarding your counterargument, from your previous reply that I didn't bother to respond to since it was already covered in other posts here, your link does not appear to be to DPR (????), and given what amounts to the working definition of "equivalent focal lengths" (and I'm repeating myself here as it appears necessary to do so) compared to the "28-105mm equivalent focal length" DPR (and others) list for the S95 my NIKKOR 50/1.8D has a "50-150mm equivalent focal length" (see here).
Your 50-150 can have any equivalent focal length down to cropping it to a single pixel.
The number I arrived at was not random. The standard I'm using is the same one that would apply to the S95, so in that regard they are equally capable.
So, everyone everywhere should base their equivalent calculations on your S95? That's silly.
Every "equivalent focal length" claim has to be evaluated independently and in the context of what it is being compared to. So a better lens and a D850 would raise the bar; and conversely a compact camera with more pixel density and a better lens could shift it the other way. The point I'm making is that "equivalent focal length" is largely meaningless as I can just as easily apply it to 35mm lenses I use on my 35mm cameras and as new cameras with greater pixel density come out the "equivalent focal length" of my lenses will likewise change.
Again, "equivalent focal length" is NOT ABOUT RESOLVING POWER!!! It's only about angle-of-view. Period.
I can apply whatever AOV I want after the shot is taken.
Right!
Resolution will be a big determinant in whether its useful or not;
And for different purposes, it will be different, which is why we don't use that as a standard.
so no, not one pixel, but enough to match the S95.
The S95 is not some sort of standard.
Its number is still published, forever fixed in time, and as meaningless as any other.
What you're talking about isn't "equivalent focal length", it's usually called "image scale" which is usually measured in arc-seconds per pixel.
It's funny you crossed that out, since you should have actually tried to learn what it said. It's a common term in astrophotography.
Yes, and astrophotography isn't want I'm doing here. Feel free though to expound on whatever point you were trying to make.
 
The fallacy of 35mm "equivalent focal lengths"
Sets up a straw man and imagines blowing it over with a single puff.

Look, it's good that you try to work through these problems in order to buy the right camera, but you haven't found a fallacy. It's more useful to ask questions than to tilt at windmills.
You can discuss or you can just troll.
I'm quoting this post in its entirety to take up as much of the remaining posting limit as possible.
Adding unnecessary text to your posts doesn't change the number of posts in the thread.

Regarding your counterargument, from your previous reply that I didn't bother to respond to since it was already covered in other posts here, your link does not appear to be to DPR (????), and given what amounts to the working definition of "equivalent focal lengths" (and I'm repeating myself here as it appears necessary to do so) compared to the "28-105mm equivalent focal length" DPR (and others) list for the S95 my NIKKOR 50/1.8D has a "50-150mm equivalent focal length" (see here).
Your 50-150 can have any equivalent focal length down to cropping it to a single pixel.
The number I arrived at was not random. The standard I'm using is the same one that would apply to the S95, so in that regard they are equally capable.
So, everyone everywhere should base their equivalent calculations on your S95? That's silly.
Every "equivalent focal length" claim has to be evaluated independently and in the context of what it is being compared to.
Which is why no one uses your approach.

With the standard approach that everyone aside from you uses, there's no ambiguity.
So a better lens and a D850 would raise the bar; and conversely a compact camera with more pixel density and a better lens could shift it the other way. The point I'm making is that "equivalent focal length" is largely meaningless as I can just as easily apply it to 35mm lenses I use on my 35mm cameras and as new cameras with greater pixel density come out the "equivalent focal length" of my lenses will likewise change.
It's not meaningless. When someone asks, "what focal length do I need to frame the full-moon", I can answer in angle-of-view or equivalent focal length. Same goes for a building or person or other object at a particular distance.
Yes, and astrophotography isn't want I'm doing here. Feel free though to expound on whatever point you were trying to make.
Image scale tells you how much angle of view a pixel occupies on a particular system, which includes focal length and pixel size. This is a pretty good indicator of resolution that isn't yet substantially reduced by diffraction or aberrations (which is a pretty good assumption for about 95% of all photography) which is why everyone uses it.
 
Adding unnecessary text to your posts doesn't change the number of posts in the thread.
I don't know. Let's find out. Seems that this whole thread is unnecessary posts anyway.

Preface

Ironically, even here at DPR equivalent focal lengths are often divorced from a complete understanding of what is or isn't equivalent. There is this idea that if a lens covers a certain FOV on a given format then it is somehow equivalent to whatever focal length that would cover that FOV on a 35mm format camera.

[This is a good place to suggest to anyone that doesn't want to read a long post (I usually don't like reading long posts) that you might want to skip to the picture below and take a long look at it and draw your own conclusions. Just be prepared for me alluding back to the "Getting into the weeds" portion of this post if you have any questions or concerns about what I'm presenting.]

The reason for this post is that I got to thinking about "reach" the other day as I was researching a compact camera to give my girlfriend for her upcoming birthday. “Reach” is one of the factors I was considering, and I’ve settled on a Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS70 with (among other features I think will be valuable to have) its 20 MP sensor and a 30x zoom. However, I don’t for a minute buy into the “24-720 mm equivalent focal length” which is how the camera is marketed (for instance, here and here). Will this new camera get more reach than the Canon PowerShot S95 it will be replacing? Undoubtedly, but I will have more to say about that later this week when I have the new camera in hand. Will it get more reach than I have with my D800, NIKKOR 70-200/2.8 VR and TC-14eII? I'm thinking it should, but that too remains to be seen.

Getting into the weeds

There are three things that add up to reach:

1.) Optics -- which includes the actual focal length (and not the equivalent focal length), and just how good the optics are (I looked at a 70-300mm lens for my D800 and it was sent back because it didn't have any more resolution at 300mm than the 200mm lens focal length I already had).

2.) Pixel density -- which is essentially how many linear pixels in a mm of the image circle covered.

3.) Aperture diameter -- which is what true equivalence is all about. As it relates to reach small apertures have more diffraction, and because smaller apertures restrict light coming to the sensor the exposure ends up being noisier which in turn negatively effects resolution.

Given all of that, what is the actual “equivalent” focal length of the Canon PowerShot S95 compared to what I routinely get with my D800? After some testing with various lenses I concluded that at 35mm my NIKKOR 28-70/2.8D matches the longest focal length of my S95, so it's a third of the published 105mm "equivalent" focal length of that compact camera. I expect the DC-ZS70 to do better than the S95 with its 129mm lens rather than the 22.5mm lens on the S95, and with its 840 pixels per linear millimeter rather than the 490 pixels per linear millimeter on the S95.

Will the DC-ZS70 do better than what I get from my D800 with my longest current focal length? Well here's the math so far for the D800 compared to the S95:

At 35mm my D800 with its 204 pixels per linear millimeter beats my S95 at 22.5mm with its 490 pixels per linear millimeter. That's not true of all the lenses I tested, and some could possibly do even better, but I did test my old NIKKOR 18-70 DX kit lens and at 50mm it barely matched the S95. One might have expected the S95 having 2.4x as much linear resolution as my D800 at the sensor level would translate to its 22.5mm lens being equivalent to a 54mm lens, and while reasonably close to that it's only 65% of the way there (35mm rather than 54mm). Some of this is about optics, for sure; but as I will show in the visual examples below diffraction is also a factor.

Maybe I should break out my D300 and crop its final output to 4:3 aspect ratio, which would work out to 10.8 MP and be a bit closer to the 9.98 MP for the S95, but at 181 pixels per linear millimeter that's only a difference in linear resolution per millimeter of 12.5% more for the D800 (i.e., it's barely noticeable). The thing is when it comes to focal length equivalence (if you define that as reach rather than FOV coverage area) is that it's not about the sensor's format or aspect ratio, it's about the relative pixel densities -- so if I put one of my 105mm focal length lenses on my D300 you're going to have a hard time at the pixel level telling the difference between its output on that camera and its output on my D800 (the one thing that will be obviously different will be the FOV, but that's not reach).

Given all of that, I'm expecting the reach of the ZS70 at about 105mm to beat my current longest lens on my D800. I'll try to test that hypothesis next week. In the meantime...

A picture is worth a 1000 words (if not more)

Okay, so now comes the visual evidence to back up what I'm writing about here:

[IMG width="400px" alt="As always, it's important to view this at its "original size" or "100% zoom.""]http://photos.imageevent.com/tonybeach/mypicturesfolder/sharing//Untitled-1_2.jpg[/IMG]
As always, it's important to view this at its "original size" or "100% zoom."

My final thoughts (for this post)

For me that upper right crop at f/22 says a lot. Why? Because the aperture diameter at f/22 for a 90mm lens is 4.09mm, and that's (essentially) the same aperture diameter as f/5.6 for the 22.5mm lens used on the S95 (4.02mm). The middle crops are basically "web size," which in this context is the full frame of the S95 file and the equivalent FOV of the D800 file both sized to 1080 vertical pixels in height -- and for all practical purposes that's enough for a lot of people, and if that's the case I could probably have taken a good 20mm lens and gotten "good enough" results on my D800 under these conditions.
 
… we banned this equivalence crap on the MFT forum.
 
Thanks for enlightening us. From now on, if anyone asks, I will just say I use 5.7mm lens and refuse to elaborate.
 

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