1 year with Fujifilm XT20...

YY101 · Mar 18, 2019

I got my XT20 + XF18-55 in early 2018 and have been slowing learning the system ever since. Fuji XT20 is a fun and compact camera and the tactile feel is really nice. As my familiarity with the camera increases, I find myself enjoying taking photos with this little camera and I eventually added a XF35 f1.4 for family portrait. Personally, I enjoyed the photos taken with the 35mm prime much more than the zoom lens so much so that the prime is almost always attached to my XT20. I really enjoy the Fuji jpeg. Though I still shoot raw+jpeg most of the time, I find myself rarely doing any processing work (due to lack of time and probably some laziness on my part). My favorite jpeg profile is probably Astia followed by standard though I do shoot in Pro Neg every once in a while.

I got the camera mainly to take photos of my baby daughter and if there's any complain with the Fuji, it's the autofocus on the XT20. For some reasons, I will get rather soft images frequently even when my daughter is not moving much. The hit rate when my baby is moving is quite abysmal. I tried AF-S, AF-C, single, zone, face and even in good lightings, I find myself missing alot of shots. Many are probably user error but I start to ask myself, why is the autofocusing system so frustrating. For example, one thing I really like about the XT20 is the auto function. I can just switched to Auto mode and ask a passerby to take a family portrait. Unfortunately, the average joe just cannot take a decent photo with the XT20 even in auto mode. So much so that I resort to using my phone these days because their AF algorithm is just light years ahead. This is really a catch 22 dilemma because the image quality of the phone is obviously no where close to the Fuji. But an in focus average quality jpeg is still more useful than a mis-focused high quality jpeg, so what to do?

With the launch of XT-3, I seriously considered upgrading due to the much improved AF performance. I did my research thoroughly and unfortunately, it seems the AF is still not up to par with Sony. According to DPReview:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-t3/9

In their standard AF-C test with Dan riding a bicycle in an non-predictive manner, XT-3 missed many shots using the default AF-C driver mode. Only after changing to a particular AF-C setting, then the hit rate of this sequence became significantly better. This confirms to me that, even the pros had to work hard to get the Fuji AF to work consistently. I am just curious to see if other people have similar experiences to me? Thanks alot!

PaulProz · Mar 18, 2019

Thanks for the feedback. My experience is very similar. Coming from a mid-level Canon APS-C DSLR I find the autofocus on the X-T20 to be abysmal. I drank the kool-aid on this forum and dove headfirst into Fuji. Some of the aspects of the camera are good fun, but the autofocus is really mediocre. If I had the energy I'd go back to a big DSLR just for good, fast AF again.

ikaika777 · Mar 18, 2019

YY101 said:
I got my XT20 + XF18-55 in early 2018 and have been slowing learning the system ever since. Fuji XT20 is a fun and compact camera and the tactile feel is really nice. As my familiarity with the camera increases, I find myself enjoying taking photos with this little camera and I eventually added a XF35 f1.4 for family portrait. Personally, I enjoyed the photos taken with the 35mm prime much more than the zoom lens so much so that the prime is almost always attached to my XT20. I really enjoy the Fuji jpeg. Though I still shoot raw+jpeg most of the time, I find myself rarely doing any processing work (due to lack of time and probably some laziness on my part). My favorite jpeg profile is probably Astia followed by standard though I do shoot in Pro Neg every once in a while.

I got the camera mainly to take photos of my baby daughter and if there's any complain with the Fuji, it's the autofocus on the XT20. For some reasons, I will get rather soft images frequently even when my daughter is not moving much. The hit rate when my baby is moving is quite abysmal. I tried AF-S, AF-C, single, zone, face and even in good lightings, I find myself missing alot of shots. Many are probably user error but I start to ask myself, why is the autofocusing system so frustrating. For example, one thing I really like about the XT20 is the auto function. I can just switched to Auto mode and ask a passerby to take a family portrait. Unfortunately, the average joe just cannot take a decent photo with the XT20 even in auto mode. So much so that I resort to using my phone these days because their AF algorithm is just light years ahead. This is really a catch 22 dilemma because the image quality of the phone is obviously no where close to the Fuji. But an in focus average quality jpeg is still more useful than a mis-focused high quality jpeg, so what to do?

With the launch of XT-3, I seriously considered upgrading due to the much improved AF performance. I did my research thoroughly and unfortunately, it seems the AF is still not up to par with Sony. According to DPReview:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-t3/9

In their standard AF-C test with Dan riding a bicycle in an non-predictive manner, XT-3 missed many shots using the default AF-C driver mode. Only after changing to a particular AF-C setting, then the hit rate of this sequence became significantly better. This confirms to me that, even the pros had to work hard to get the Fuji AF to work consistently. I am just curious to see if other people have similar experiences to me? Thanks alot!

The X-T3 is getting a brand new AF algorithm and eye/face detect algorithm coming in a firmware update in April.

Banderras · Mar 18, 2019

I can relate to your frustrations. I have an x-e1 and it certainly put me off photography for a while.

Still though, I expected the third gen cameras to perform much better based on the sentiment online. Cellphone cameras are not necessarily better at AF, it's just there's little AF to be done with the kind of lenses they have so it's not comparable really.

There are a lot of factors at play to get a sharp in focus image. The forum can be of help if you share some photos that you are concerned with.

I think the face/eye focus will be a huge improvement in AF, as for me the biggest problem was that the camera will focus anywhere but on the obvious target. So I had to resort completely to focus and recompose technique, which is not ideal. I hope with eye focus portraits will be easier for everyone regardless of skill level.

afm · Mar 18, 2019

You are right. It is a Fuji thing. I have had X-E1 X-E2 X-T10 X70 X-M1 and X-T20 coupled with various lenses and they are all the same, hit and miss. If a subject is important to me, I take half a dozen shots and usually get a good one. My Canon nails it 9 times out of 10 but for me the size and weight of the Fuji together with the excellent choice of lenses wins out for my type of shooting. It is a shame though that Fuji have taken so long to get it near right when other manufacturers seem to have achieved it. Still, we keep buying them don't we?

The AF is supposed to be improved on the X-T3 and X-T30 !

Holden75 · Mar 18, 2019

I have both an X-T20 and the 35 f1.4 and I also have a young daughter. While I do miss focus occasionally, and more than I did using a Sony a6000, I don't think I miss as much as you do. It took me a while to get it right but I haven't had mine as long as you. But my hit rate has definitely improved as I've worked out how to use the system. What af settings are you using?

ddtan · Mar 18, 2019

Without knowing your settings or examples it is really difficult to give advice on how to get better keeper rates. I find the AF accurate on mine. If you are using f1.4 a lot, it has a very shallow DOF which can make some parts of your image out of focus. Another frequent cause of soft images is too slow shutter. I usually keep mine at 160. I also usually use single point AF, with the next to smallest focus box. I had trouble getting sharp images when I first started using my X cameras, but with the right settings I’m ok now.

DHAPhotography · Mar 18, 2019

Nope, the hit rate with AF on my similar camera is closer to 100%. I do use spot AF and works for me. Here's one from yesterday. Best. Don

--
DH Allison...Carpe Diem...the Reaper comes soon enough.

YY101 · Mar 18, 2019

Holden75 said:
I have both an X-T20 and the 35 f1.4 and I also have a young daughter. While I do miss focus occasionally, and more than I did using a Sony a6000, I don't think I miss as much as you do. It took me a while to get it right but I haven't had mine as long as you. But my hit rate has definitely improved as I've worked out how to use the system. What af settings are you using?

I have tried different combination:

AF-S/AF-C, single/3x3 zone, with/without Face (i never use eye as I find its performance really slow and bad), S/CL

So that's 8 different combination. For moving subject, I usually use AF-C, 3x3 with face detection and CL. Problem is, sometimes I will get 8 out of 10 good images, other times, the whole sequence of 6 to 10 images are all out of focus or soft. The hit rate is probably around 1 out of 2 to 1 out of 3 depending on lighting conditions on average. I try to keep SS at around 1/100.

YY101 · Mar 18, 2019

ddtan said:
Without knowing your settings or examples it is really difficult to give advice on how to get better keeper rates. I find the AF accurate on mine. If you are using f1.4 a lot, it has a very shallow DOF which can make some parts of your image out of focus. Another frequent cause of soft images is too slow shutter. I usually keep mine at 160. I also usually use single point AF, with the next to smallest focus box. I had trouble getting sharp images when I first started using my X cameras, but with the right settings I’m ok now.

My settings:

AF-S/AF-C, single/3x3 zone, with/without Face (i never use eye as I find its performance really slow and bad), S/CL. 8 different combinations here though usually for moving subject it's AF-C, 3x3 zone, face on and CL with SS at around 1/60 to 1/200 depending on lighting conditions.

MAT-TEO · Mar 19, 2019

Wow. Feels like reading my own post. Exactly same situation and experience. I am also curious if the 35mm f2 will have better results. I was debating on whether to upgrade my unit to T3 or buy f2 version of the lens.

Banderras · Mar 19, 2019

YY101 said:
Holden75 said:

I have both an X-T20 and the 35 f1.4 and I also have a young daughter. While I do miss focus occasionally, and more than I did using a Sony a6000, I don't think I miss as much as you do. It took me a while to get it right but I haven't had mine as long as you. But my hit rate has definitely improved as I've worked out how to use the system. What af settings are you using?

Click to expand...

I have tried different combination:

AF-S/AF-C, single/3x3 zone, with/without Face (i never use eye as I find its performance really slow and bad), S/CL

So that's 8 different combination. For moving subject, I usually use AF-C, 3x3 with face detection and CL. Problem is, sometimes I will get 8 out of 10 good images, other times, the whole sequence of 6 to 10 images are all out of focus or soft. The hit rate is probably around 1 out of 2 to 1 out of 3 depending on lighting conditions on average. I try to keep SS at around 1/100.

I think I read somewhere that fuji in AF-C are slow to lock on to the subject, and if it did not lock on the first frame, it most often won't for the whole burst. So yeah AF-C is tricky.

I would suggest that for moving subjects certainly 1/100 and even 1/200 are too slow if you want a sharp image. I'd stick with 1/500.

Holden75 · Mar 19, 2019

YY101 said:
Holden75 said:

I have both an X-T20 and the 35 f1.4 and I also have a young daughter. While I do miss focus occasionally, and more than I did using a Sony a6000, I don't think I miss as much as you do. It took me a while to get it right but I haven't had mine as long as you. But my hit rate has definitely improved as I've worked out how to use the system. What af settings are you using?

Click to expand...

I have tried different combination:

AF-S/AF-C, single/3x3 zone, with/without Face (i never use eye as I find its performance really slow and bad), S/CL

So that's 8 different combination. For moving subject, I usually use AF-C, 3x3 with face detection and CL. Problem is, sometimes I will get 8 out of 10 good images, other times, the whole sequence of 6 to 10 images are all out of focus or soft. The hit rate is probably around 1 out of 2 to 1 out of 3 depending on lighting conditions on average. I try to keep SS at around 1/100.

I've gone through this process too!

I find 3x3 zone to not be very accurate because it seems to choose the most contrasty part of the grid and that is rarely where I want the focus to be. I only use the grid if the subject is far enough away that they are the contrast in the scene. I know others have different experiences with that but that is mine. If the subject (my daughter) is close I use single point AF (the second smallest one) and use the touch screen to place it where I want. I find this massively helps with my composition too as it is a process of placing the focus point where I want it in the frame and moving the camera so the focus point in in place to get that shot. Writing this out sounds like it might take a long time but it doesn't. I use AF-C and CL (you have to use CL or CH in AF-C to be able to use all the camera's AF capabilities; S in AF-C will be slower and more out of focus shots). Of course high performance mode is on. I find I get a keeper rate of 8 or 9 out of 10 with that using the 35 f1.4. It is about that for my 56 too, maybe a little less, depending on how quickly my subject is moving.

That may or may not work well for you but thought I'd share it. I do find, though, that using AF-C and CL on high performance mode gives me better than 1 in 2 even using tracking mode (start tracking with touch af). I don't find face detection very accurate in terms of nailing focus so I don't use that and I don't even bother with eye detection.

csnite · Mar 19, 2019

I just moved from an xt20 to xt3. I will say that I find the af of the t3 significantly better than the t20. I will also say that the hit rate of my t20 was better than a previous Sony a6000. Most of my pictures were either with the 35 1.4 or the 23 f2. The 23 did a noticeably better job of af. It is just faster than the 35 1.4 and has deeper dof, so more shots were in focus. In looking back at my t20 images, most of my images were not soft due to af issues, but rather subtle camera shake or subject movement. In fact, I was very surprised to realized how many soft shots from my 35 were due to camera shake. The t20 being so small and light weight contributed to that. Certainly Ibis would help for camera movement, but not subject movement. The only thing that helps that is a faster shutter speed. Now with the t3, the increase in weight and the faster af means 2 pieces of that puzzle are helped.

As for your cell phone, of course you are going to have a higher hit rate. With a tiny sensor and a wide angle lens, nearly everything will be in focus from 3 feet away. If I put the Rokinon 12 or even the kit at 18, stop down to 5.6, which is basically your cell phone equivalent, I can basically set the focus to infinity and count on everything more than 5 feet away to be in focus. It's just a matter of lens physics. If all you want is a sharp jpg of a scene with your family, then the smaller sensor camera is probably your best bet 9 out of 10 times. However, if you want subject isolation, longer lenses, better dynamic range, or the ability to control shutter speed, iso, aperture, white balance, or creative color profiles, the Fuji wins by default.

I have also shot Canon DSLR and, like you wished for a smaller capable kit. When I look at my older DSLR shots, I realize that the af was fine, but also that I took many less shots because the camera sat at home much more often. The Fuji af, especially the t3 is very capable. The 35 1.4 is still not as fast as some might like, but is usually fine for me. The quality of images I get, the size of the camera and lens package, and the ability to shoot at 1.4 for subject isolation and low light makes the slightly slower af worth the trade offs for me. If you are really unhappy, grab a Canon sl2 or whatever it is now, which is pretty small or a Panasonic gx85 which is really small and has Ibis and a smaller sensor to help have more dof.

Rmcp20 · Mar 19, 2019

I think there are a few small issues that lead to your frustation. None of them is a big issue, but all together makes it harder to get AF correct for your usage:

1 - 35mm 1.4 is not a lens to be used in AF-C

This is actually the reason i sold mine. While i loved the images and the size, in AF-S i cant complain, but in AF-C its not good at all, specially in low light/indoors.

This is also one of the reasons why i don't invest on the 23mm 1.4 and keep the f2 version instead. I have a 5 year old son...and the f2 is fine (8 out of 10 when he is moving). If you like 35mm, try the f2 lens. Get a used one, so that if you can't go with f2, you can seel witouth much loss or even profit.

2 - Turn face detection of (it slows down AF) and use the 3x3 zone where the face is. Remember 24mpix allows you to crop a bit withouth loosing much image quality, so use those pixels.

3 - In AF-C custom setting, select option 3, the one with the Go kart. I keep mine with that mode for everything, as i find it the best for generic usage.

4 - Do you have High performance mode turned on? Its a must in every Fuji camera.

This said, remember Sony AF is good but you wont have the lenses you love. Well, they have a Sigma 30mm 1.4, but its much bigger than the Fuji 35mm 1.4.

And the Zeiss 16-70 f4 (which could replace the 18-55) costs quite a bit, even used.

So its a compromise either way, each of us have to choose the "most adequate" system and get the most out of it.

Hope to have helped.

PF511 · Mar 19, 2019

YY101 said:
Holden75 said:

I have both an X-T20 and the 35 f1.4 and I also have a young daughter. While I do miss focus occasionally, and more than I did using a Sony a6000, I don't think I miss as much as you do. It took me a while to get it right but I haven't had mine as long as you. But my hit rate has definitely improved as I've worked out how to use the system. What af settings are you using?

Click to expand...

I have tried different combination:

AF-S/AF-C, single/3x3 zone, with/without Face (i never use eye as I find its performance really slow and bad), S/CL

So that's 8 different combination. For moving subject, I usually use AF-C, 3x3 with face detection and CL. Problem is, sometimes I will get 8 out of 10 good images, other times, the whole sequence of 6 to 10 images are all out of focus or soft. The hit rate is probably around 1 out of 2 to 1 out of 3 depending on lighting conditions on average. I try to keep SS at around 1/100.

Congrats on your little one!

I think your problem is that combining a shutter speed of 1/100 with a f/1.4 aperture is too slow and/or too shallow to get sharp shots consistently, especially indoors.

With a f/1.4 aperture and being close up, if your daughter moves fractions of an inch, or if you're moving the camera, you're going to get an out of focus shot. With a shutter speed of 1/100, it doesn't take much movement to cause blur/softness. When you combine both, you're going to have a lot of blurry and out of focus shots. This isn't the fault of the camera. It's the nature of that aperture on close shots and that shutter speed with movement.

The reason you get sharp shots with your phone is that depth of field is pretty much infinite and it will up the ISO as needed, no matter how much noise is introduced.

This isn't really an autofocus issue. If you're close to your daughter and either of you are moving at all, you're probably going to need to stop your aperture down past f/1.4 so the depth of field isn't so narrow. Using f/1.4 is probably better for shots where she's a little further away or not moving. If she is moving, up your ISO significantly, especially for indoor shots, or set your minimum SS to 1/250 or even higher.

Hope that helps!

vivanchenko · Mar 19, 2019

I don't know how are you focusing guys. I hardly miss any shots at all and I shoot my kids in action a lot. Even the X-M1 was good enough for me in terms of auto-focus. Also, manual focus and auto-focus assigned to the Fn button do wonders!

Rmcp20 · Mar 19, 2019

vivanchenko said:
I don't know how are you focusing guys. I hardly miss any shots at all and I shoot my kids in action a lot. Even the X-M1 was good enough for me in terms of auto-focus. Also, manual focus and auto-focus assigned to the Fn button do wonders!

Well, everyone has different criteria when judging a photo. For you the X-M1 can be good enough, for others it isn't. The good enough for you might not be good enough for others.

Now, there is something that comes into play, its know how. And here in the forum, its quite hard to judge what others are doing

You can be very good at focusing. I certainly miss less with my X-T20 than many other people with their X-T3 which has a much improved focus system (and some miss less than me with X-T10 maybe).

There was someone who had a 99% hit rate with an X-T1...he was a produt photographer...

Holden75 · Mar 19, 2019

Rmcp20 said:
I think there are a few small issues that lead to your frustation. None of them is a big issue, but all together makes it harder to get AF correct for your usage:

1 - 35mm 1.4 is not a lens to be used in AF-C

This is actually the reason i sold mine. While i loved the images and the size, in AF-S i cant complain, but in AF-C its not good at all, specially in low light/indoors.

This is also one of the reasons why i don't invest on the 23mm 1.4 and keep the f2 version instead. I have a 5 year old son...and the f2 is fine (8 out of 10 when he is moving). If you like 35mm, try the f2 lens. Get a used one, so that if you can't go with f2, you can seel witouth much loss or even profit.

2 - Turn face detection of (it slows down AF) and use the 3x3 zone where the face is. Remember 24mpix allows you to crop a bit withouth loosing much image quality, so use those pixels.

3 - In AF-C custom setting, select option 3, the one with the Go kart. I keep mine with that mode for everything, as i find it the best for generic usage.

4 - Do you have High performance mode turned on? Its a must in every Fuji camera.

This said, remember Sony AF is good but you wont have the lenses you love. Well, they have a Sigma 30mm 1.4, but its much bigger than the Fuji 35mm 1.4.

And the Zeiss 16-70 f4 (which could replace the 18-55) costs quite a bit, even used.

So its a compromise either way, each of us have to choose the "most adequate" system and get the most out of it.

Hope to have helped.

I'm not disagreeing with you here but just wanted to give a different experience. I find AF-C great with the 35 f1.4 if shot with CL on high performance mode. Not much different to AF-S really. At least I don't notice much difference and I get a similar keeper rate. I do find the 3x3 grid not great for kids though and get a better keeper rate with single point af. I have also found option 6 on the continuous tracking to be the best for shooting kids. So I guess it gives lots of options for different ways of shooting!

MrSee · Mar 19, 2019

I feel the same way with my X-T20. It’s a good little travel camera but when you need fast AF there is nothing like a DSLR. Maybe some day mirrorless will catch up. I hope.

1 year with Fujifilm XT20...

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