What have I done wrong with this picture

NotSure said:

I am shooting with an 180mm Nikkor/ D500

The distance between me and the subject is 20 meters maybe and there is heavy wind and heavy overcast

I am trying to get in to M mode shooting

The reason I choose 1/400 is because they say with long range lenses you have to double the focal length in speed. Well here we have 270 (180x1.5). Well it is not exactly double but near. I could have also done it 1/640 & iso 640

The reason I chose F5.6 is because the sunny 16 rule says that for heavy overcast. And also, I want to see more details. More sharpness

The reason for the iso 400 is because the rule says it need to be equivalent to the speed number.

I am not touching the EV

...

so, what would you have don. Please tell me in speed, aperture and iso

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TBH you shouldn't be shooting Manual until you understand how to properly expose the image, and stop following "rules" that counteract each other. What you did wrong primarily is not looking at the meter. Had you metered off a a mid-tone area of the image, say the green shrubbery on the right or the roadway in the background, it would have shown you were under-exposed (pointer would have been to the left of the center of the meter). So you should have either opened up the aperture, used a higher ISO, or a slower shutter speed.

It's a common mistake for beginners to shoot in manual "because that's how the pros do it". If shutter speed was the primary contstraint b/c of the wind and focal length, you could have shot in shutter priority with auto-ISO.

Mark

You should only be in M mode for trick shots that the camera wouldn't be able to do on its own, there are no professional [digital] camera people who walk around in M mode at all times, you would miss most shots trying to work out exposure.

If you're outdoors during the day, you should be at base ISO 100, you would only move up the aperture if you're doing a close quarters shot that requires more depth of field or to choose the lens' sweet spot for a very detailed photo. That leaves only shutter speed, which should be no slower than your shutter speed (180mm so no slower than 1/160") but no higher than needed to capture the scene; shooting flowers in the wind would obviously require some speed, so I would get a few shots at a lower speed during wind lulls so I could select a blur-free copy.

Lastly, don't forget post-processing:







--
Digital Camera and Adobe Photoshop user since 1999.
Adobe Lightroom is my adult coloring book.

NotSure said:

...I am trying to get in to M mode shooting
The reason I choose 1/400 is because they say with long range lenses you have to double the focal length in speed. Well here we have 270 (180x1.5). Well it is not exactly double but near. I could have also done it 1/640 & iso 640

The reason I chose F5.6 is because the sunny 16 rule says that for heavy overcast. And also, I want to see more details. More sharpness

The reason for the iso 400 is because the rule says it need to be equivalent to the speed number.

Click to expand...

I think you're misinterpreting what shooting in manual mode is. It's not about picking all of the settings based on the "sunny 16" rule, which is for something entirely different.

Shooting in manual mode is about purposely picking each setting for whatever particular aspect that you're trying to capture.

You still use the built-in metering that the camera provides when half-pressing the shutter button. However, many use manual mode to expose one way or the other from what the metering indicates, or to simply not change the exposure when changing the cameras view point between shots, such as during a pano sequence.

Shutter speed - you initially choose the shutter speed based on what you need, such as when hand holding or stopping motion.

Aperture - This is initially chosen by how much depth of field you want.

ISO - This is initially chosen based on how much noise you're willing to tolerate, but is always desired to be as low as possible.

Metering - You half press the shutter button to meter the scene. Then you adjust shutter speed, aperture, and/or ISO to bring the meter to the middle (properly exposed). Then you can under or over expose as needed if the scene is lit in a way that requires it.

The "trick" to shooting in manual mode is simply deciding which setting to change based on what your situation is. There's no magic to manual mode, it takes the same photo as any other mode that has the same setting values, you're just choosing which setting tradeoff you're going to make instead of the camera making it for you.

This is especially useful when shooting on a tripod because the camera doesn't know that you're on a tripod and in aperture priority mode it would probably try to keep the shutter speed faster than you need it to be.

Before you start shooting in manual mode you have to be fully aware of what shutter speed, aperture, and ISO do.

NotSure said:

I am shooting with an 180mm Nikkor/ D500

The distance between me and the subject is 20 meters maybe and there is heavy wind and heavy overcast

I am trying to get in to M mode shooting

The reason I choose 1/400 is because they say with long range lenses you have to double the focal length in speed. Well here we have 270 (180x1.5). Well it is not exactly double but near. I could have also done it 1/640 & iso 640

The reason I chose F5.6 is because the sunny 16 rule says that for heavy overcast. And also, I want to see more details. More sharpness

The reason for the iso 400 is because the rule says it need to be equivalent to the speed number.

I am not touching the EV

Click to expand...

Hi NotSure,

The photo looks under exposed to me.

If you want to shoot in M mode you still need to use the meter to arrive at a suitable combination of aperture shutter speed and ISO.

Also, you can meter in three ways, matrix (the whole frame), centre weighted and spot.

When you are in M mode the meter shows how much light it can see from each setting, so if you use matrix and adjust your shutter speed and aperture until the meter is in the middle then you will have a normally exposed image.

Alternatively use P or A or S (with matrix metering) and don't set any exposure compensation and you will get the same result.

Mark_A

on of you said the following:

bring aperture up to choose the lens' sweet spot for a very detailed photo

Sometimes when I shoot people or here with the flowers, the face in the center is not sharp enough.

Is that what it means?

NotSure said:

SoCalWill said:

you would only move up the aperture if you're doing a close quarters shot that requires more depth of field or to choose the lens' sweet spot for a very detailed photo.

Click to expand...

on of you said the following:

bring aperture up to choose the lens' sweet spot for a very detailed photo

Sometimes when I shoot people or here with the flowers, the face in the center is not sharp enough.

Is that what it means?

Click to expand...

I also said "if you're doing a close quarters shot that requires more depth of field," if you're shooting someone's face from only a few feet away, a low aperture will only get a very thin slice of depth of focus, which is what would make the center of a flower/someone's face out of focus. That's a scenario where you'd need to raise the aperture, but shooting some flowers many feet away doesn't require more depth, so you can use less aperture to get more light there.

"Sweet spot" in relation to f-stop is what aperture setting the lens is sharpest at, but it's not something you take into account for everyday shooting.

--
Digital Camera and Adobe Photoshop user since 1999.
Adobe Lightroom is my adult coloring book.

NotSure said:

I am shooting with an 180mm Nikkor/ D500

The distance between me and the subject is 20 meters maybe and there is heavy wind and heavy overcast

I am trying to get in to M mode shooting

Click to expand...

Why? It is only useful in a limited range of circumstances. If you expect to experience such circumstances then, yes, learn to use M mode; but otherwise don't bother.

Where M mode is very useful is for adjusting settings for a given scene so that you can observe the individual effects of changing f-stop, shutter speed and ISO while keeping everything else constant. If you do this it's important that you use a tripod so that the scene is always identical, not just roughly the same.

NotSure said:

The reason I choose 1/400 is because they say with long range lenses you have to double the focal length in speed.

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Who says? Regardless of focal length the rule of thumb (not an absolute guide) is I/(equivalent FF focal length). As your camera is 1.5 crop then 180 x 1.5 = 270 so you were rather faster than the guideline speed. The real best shutter speed depends a lot on your shooting style and ability to hold things steady; you should experiment to find out what works for you rather than rely on broad generalisations.

NotSure said:

Well here we have 270 (180x1.5). Well it is not exactly double but near. I could have also done it 1/640 & iso 640

The reason I chose F5.6 is because the sunny 16 rule says that for heavy overcast.

Click to expand...

Here's an important lesson. Heavy overcast in one part of the world is very different from other places; and your idea of what "heavy overcast" means might not be what the authors of the sunny sixteen rule mean. As with shutter speed, don't try to rely on general rules.

NotSure said:

And also, I want to see more details. More sharpness.

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Your lens shows about 2% more centre resolution at f/5.6 than at f/4 or f/8. The chances of seeing that difference are negligible (it usually takes a difference of 10% or more for things to appear different). f/4 would allow you to use a lower ISO for equal shutter speed.

NotSure said:

The reason for the iso 400 is because the rule says it need to be equivalent to the speed number.

Click to expand...

It's not a rule - it's a guide which (as I've already explained) can hardly ever be dead tight.

NotSure said:

I am not touching the EV

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Just as well - unless you set Auto-ISO ev has no effect in M mode.

NotSure said:

...

so, what would you have done.

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Well, first I wouldn't have used M mode. I'd have set f-stop to f/4, ISO to 100 (base on your camera) and taken a shot. I'd chimp the histogram and highlight warning to see if exposure was correct, and looked at shutter speed to see if it was fast enough - if in doubt about that I'd zoom in to look for motion blur.

Based on what I saw I'd (a) dial in + or -EV or (b) adjust ISO to get the ideal exposure (or a combination of (a) and (b) if necessary.

NotSure said:

Please tell me in speed, aperture and iso

Click to expand...

However, if you must play games with M mode and sunny sixteen I'd have started with f/4 and 1/250s because (i) I'd want as much light as possible and ii) 1/250 is close to the guideline speed. That would probably give a different result than yours but still not right. Then I'd have done the same chimping as above. Even without chimping I'd have known something was wrong.

Looking at the shot you posted, there is no sign of motion blur so 1/400s was too fast. So even from what you took I'd know to try again with a slower shutter speed. Going to 1/250s looks as if it would still freeze things so second shot for another look. With your f/5.6 it would still have been too dark so I'd have taken a third shot at f/4. That would probably be getting close (but I'd still be checking the histogram and highlight warning). If it was still too dark I'd try two options: (1) try f/2.8 and see if it gave adequate depth of field (2) increase ISO progressively until I was happy. I'd go in that order because I always prefer to increase exposure if possible rather than increasing ISO.

--
---
Gerry
___________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
[email protected]

NotSure said:

on of you said the following:

bring aperture up to choose the lens' sweet spot for a very detailed photo

Click to expand...

The "sweet spot" is where the lens gives its peak resolution. This is often (but not always) at an f-stop a little smaller than its widest. Here's a test of your lens; https://www.opticallimits.com/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/808-nikkorafd18028dx?start=1 as you see, although the sweet spot is at f/5.6 the difference from f/4 to f/5.6 to f/8 is trivial. But, yes - if nothing else gets in the way, shoot at the sweet spot.

NotSure said:

Sometimes when I shoot people or here with the flowers, the face in the center is not sharp enough.

Click to expand...

Assuming the lens is properly focused it will give its peak resolution in the centre as long as you have used the centre AF point. In your shot here the softness is caused by noise, not missed focus. And the reason for the noise is that the shot is underexposed.

NotSure said:

Is that what it means?

Click to expand...

No.

If you are close to your subject, especially with a relatively long focal length, the depth of field will be shallow so things that are only slightly nearer of further than the point you focused on will be blurred. You can see that on the brickwork in the front of your picture (which doesn't matter here - it just illustrates the point).

--
---
Gerry
___________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
[email protected]

NotSure said:

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I can't tell you what shutter speed, aperture, and ISO to use because they are interrelated, and depend strongly on how much light there is on the subject. Also, quite a bit depends on both your artistic intent, your gear, as well as your other technique.

Rules of thumb are just easy hints but you can't rely on them nor should you too slavishly follow them, especially if you get the wrong results. By all means, use your auto modes: that's what they are for, pros use them, and typically they are a bit more intelligent than just a few rules of thumb, especially since they actually read the amount of light reflected from the scene. But manual mode does teach lessons, although not necessarily pleasant ones.

Your photo is very dark, but please note that the flowers are fairly close to being overexposed, in that if you gave them only a bit much more brightness, they would lose texture and shift in hue. Exposure only considers the midtone or middle gray value: it cares nothing about highlights and shadows and colors. The scene here is very contrasty: mainly dark tones with a few important light ones, and so there are a few other considerations that have little to do with exposure, and all the exposure fiddling in the world won't help.

One thing I'd try is to reduce contrast, or use a flatter camera profile. But this is one scene that screams for better lighting: overcast can be very difficult to photograph well for various reasons, and you might have gotten better results from full sunlight, with the sun behind you off to one side.
--

NotSure said:

I am shooting with an 180mm Nikkor/ D500

The distance between me and the subject is 20 meters maybe and there is heavy wind and heavy overcast

Click to expand...

Good reason to put the camera away?

NotSure said:

I am trying to get in to M mode shooting

Click to expand...

If you really are intent on using M mode, ignore the various contradictory rules and experiment for yourself, but remember to take notice of the camera's exposure indicator.

• The SS rule can be adapted, depending on your skill at holding the camera and the presence of lens stabilisation or even a tripod. No stabilisation on that lens, so try a tripod.
• SS needs to be fast enough to stop subject motion (flowers flapping in the breeze).
• Sunny 16 is only relevant if you don't have metering on your camera.
• Auto-ISO will be helpful in many scenarios, and the D500 has very good performance at high ISO.

A little research will tell you when you really might need to use M mode.

NotSure said:

so, what would you have don. Please tell me in speed, aperture and iso

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Several critiques:

Shutter speed too slow for camera shake or subject movement

Scene underexposed while too contrasty

Bad perspective. Objects look compressed together. Taken from too far a distance so the scene too flat.

Better exposure at a closer distance and shorter focal length would help a lot.

A lot depends on what you are trying to achieve with the photo. If you want simply to document a location, then you have done that. As far as I can tell, the blossoms are exposed well, the rest of the scene you can adjust in post. However, if you think the flowers are beautiful and are the subject of the photo, you have failed to show them off in a way that has a visual impact. I just don't know what the point of the photo is.

First, you need to decide what the subject is. Why am I taking this photo? Then, you can adjust the exposure and the positioning of the elements to reflect your vision of how that subject should look in the image.

NotSure said:

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With all due respect to the previous posters, I disagree with all of them.

First of all I do agree that you did not "need" to be in "manual". Manual is mainly useful for specific situations where "auto" can lead to inconsistent/incorrect exposures when there is, (no "gray"), a lot of white/black subjects that can confuse the metering system, (ala wedding w/ bride in reflective-shiny white dress and groom is in absorbent-black tuxedo). You must use EV when metering w/ anything different from a (18%) reflective (gray) subject.

But I have NO PROBLEM with you experimenting with it -- and now wondering why it didn't seem to work, (underexposed?).

And it was also true that you could/should have referred to the metering bar. However the very point of "manual" is that you can't always trust the metering-bar in unusually lighting situations, (albeit it WOULD have been CORRECT in your situation).

NOTE that "Sunny-16" rule was first devised when cameras were all manual, (w/ no auto modes).

And called "Sunny"(-16) because only accurate from about 10:00am to about 2-3:00pm in.

So the answer could actually be VERY SIMPLE/obvious .... is the CLOCK correct ??? (it indicates 5:19 when approximately 1-2 stops darker)

You are only about 1-stop under-exposed, (maybe 1.5 but I don't think "2" stops). Note that it is even correctable in PP, (but will remain somewhat noisier than if initially exposed correctly).

IF the clock is wrong, and shot closer to noon, the "overcast" could have been thicker than normal. It also appears you were under a tree, and thus darker, (even with relatively even lighting from overcast).

NotSure said:

I am shooting with an 180mm Nikkor/ D500

Click to expand...

Longer than needed for this.

NotSure said:

The distance between me and the subject is 20 meters maybe and there is heavy wind and heavy overcast

I am trying to get in to M mode shooting

Click to expand...

Nothing "wrong" w/ shooting "M" but not needed for this type shot/situation.

NotSure said:

The reason I choose 1/400 is because they say with long range lenses you have to double the focal length in speed. Well here we have 270 (180x1.5). Well it is not exactly double but near. I could have also done it 1/640 & iso 640

Click to expand...

You are correct, but with stabilized lens, you can cheat on this. (2-3 stops)

NotSure said:

The reason I chose F5.6 is because the sunny 16 rule says that for heavy overcast.

Click to expand...

As already mentioned, only applies near "mid"-day and not under shade, (even if overcast)

NotSure said:

And also, I want to see more details. More sharpness

Click to expand...

OK, good choice for that ...

NotSure said:

The reason for the iso 400 is because the rule says it need to be equivalent to the speed number.

Click to expand...

YES ... (assuming you are near "mid"-day ...

NotSure said:

I am not touching the EV

Click to expand...

I don't think that is active in "M" anyway, (and if it is, it ONLY applies to the "metering" offset -- it does NOT directly change exposure -- only indirectly via offset-"metering").

NotSure said:

...

so, what would you have don. Please tell me in speed, aperture and iso

Click to expand...

1-2 additional stops, (either via wider f/stop, higher ISO, or longer shutter-speed)

Note that "auto" would have probably exposed this scene properly, (and also "M" if you had referred to and "centered" the metering-bar which I suspect was indicating -1 or -2 stops).

NotSure said:

I am trying to get in to M mode shooting

Click to expand...

I think it's absolutely fine to be shooting in M mode. In fact that's the mode I myself would have chosen to photograph your image. I like using M mode because it is predictable, consistent, and repeatable. That ensures that I always get the maximum number of keepers.

But as you can see from the responses so far, there are about a zillion different ways to reach an exposure that results in the photograph you want to achieve. And you were only one small step short of attaining that!

As was mentioned, all you would have had to do was check the exposure after taking the shot (digital makes this so easy), and then adjust your settings accordingly. Use the LCD brightness, or the histogram or the blinkies (your choice). They can all get you to the exposure you want to reach.

Here's a bit of leisure reading for you, for those times you are not out shooting...

Exposure Guide

Best of luck,

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
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Looks ok to me.

You state that the weather is heavy overcast. And the image conveys that atmosphere So what's the problem?

Halina123 said:

Looks ok to me.

You state that the weather is heavy overcast. And the image conveys that atmosphere So what's the problem?

Click to expand...

Because you can still get nicely exposed pictures in overcast:







--
Digital Camera and Adobe Photoshop user since 1999.
Adobe Lightroom is my adult coloring book.

Halina123 said:

Looks ok to me.

You state that the weather is heavy overcast. And the image conveys that atmosphere So what's the problem?

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Yes, 90% of the criticism was that I should have played with the EV. Maybe yes. But the clouds were low and dark and it was near to late afternoon.

NotSure said:

Halina123 said:

Looks ok to me.

You state that the weather is heavy overcast. And the image conveys that atmosphere So what's the problem?

Click to expand...

Yes, 90% of the criticism was that I should have played with the EV. Maybe yes. But the clouds were low and dark and it was near to late afternoon.

Click to expand...

Understanding your camera and the result you want has nothing to do with time of day. If you wanted a brighter picture it would have taken about 10s to increase exposure to get it. Even if you had to make several tries the whole exercise would take under a minute - and that at midday or midnight.

And, of course, you knew about the clouds and the time before you started.

I think the most important think I have learned from here is playing with the aperture to increase sharpness is working only if you shoot a subject not far from you.

Combined with other research, I understand that the sweet spot of the lens is 2 stops further than the basic one.

And the sunny 16 rule is for mid day only.

...

I think in the future, with this lens 180mm Nikkor, I will stick to S mode at 320 or up (more or less equivalent to its 270mm DX capacity) and let the camera decide A and ISO because anyway I will be far from the subject.

And I play a lot with EV... which will be probably be minus 07 or 1 because D500 apparently has tendency of blowing up the highlights




taken in the morning with sun rising