Pronouncing "Zuiko" correctly

eques · Feb 28, 2019

Foto64 said:
They pronounce W different they say BMV.

The last syllable is like the first in "very", with a very long e.

Peter

eques · Feb 28, 2019

[No message]

rurikw · Feb 28, 2019

Pete_CSCS said:
rurikw said:

I didn't hear any difference in any of the pronunciations on the video except maybe the lady's u was a tad sharper, approaching French u/German ü very slightly. Didn't hear a diphtong/an I anywhere so not sure what it stands for. Sounded like

Z as in zoo

U as in sue slightly toward I as in in

I mute

K as in key

O as in on

Definitely two syllables. I guess it's good enough as an approximation for us non Japanese speakers. Reminds me of a thread about how to pronounce Fuji. I got it like this:

F as H in hat(!)

U as in sue

J as in Jill

I as in in

Click to expand...

rurikw · Feb 28, 2019

Antisthenes said:
Chris Noble said:

Pete_CSCS said:

Now I just started watching this new video and the Asian model corrects the photographer on how to pronounce the name. Watch at about 1:10 into it.

Now it's two syllables and the accent is on the 1st? Is this correct? What say you?

Click to expand...

She says "Zoo-ee-ko" twice, with a slight accent on the "zoo" and a stronger accent on the "ko".

It's a bit subtle because accenting in Japanese is somewhat flexible, depending on the intention of the speaker.

I've spent a lot of time in Japan, saying words constructed that way and having them said to me.

Click to expand...

Her pronunciation is a bit questionable, because her "ko" sounds a bit short, while it should be long.

The problem with Japanese words transliterated into the Latin alphabet — like "ZUIKO" — is that the original Kanji semantics get lost, which sometimes makes it difficult to tell, even for a native speaker, whether a sound should be short or long.

KO could for example mean child/子, e.g. as in MICHIKO / 美智子, a common female first name, and should then be short.

KO could also mean light/光, as e.g. in ZUIKO / 瑞光, a word meaning "auspicious / divine light", and chosen by Olympus as a brand name for their lenses, and the sound shoud be long.

Here's an example of the "official" pronunciation of ZUIKO, the "KO" being long:

The difference in length might be subtle, and is a bit similar to the first syllable in "commit" being short, while it's long in "call".

Thanks, that was great and very different from the op's link. A distinct i and long o, 3 syllables.

R Liewenberger · Feb 28, 2019

Foto64 said:
They pronounce W different they say BMV.

If a German would pronounce your 'BMV' it would sound like 'Bé-Am-Fow' (no longer meaning 'Bayerische Motorenwerke', but 'Bundesministerium der Verteidigung', Department of Defense'). :-D

Your English pronunciation and spelling is not the measure of all things! Different language, different spelling, different pronunciation.

BMW is a German term so German pronunciation should apply. That means when a German pronounces BMW, it will sound correctly. Telling him it has to be pronounced like BMV won't make any sense to him. It only might help a first-language-English person who has no idea about any other languages.

Your 'V-workaround' reminds me of Kennedy, when visiting Berlin in the early sixties. He wanted to say 'I am a Berliner' in German. That German language sentence would have been 'Ich bin ein Berliner'. Obviously he didn't know much about German and German pronunciation, so they wrote a little note for him, making this 'Ich bin ein Berliner' look like 'Ish been ine Bur-leaner' or something similar. :-D

(And no, it didn't mean 'I'm a pancake'! At least in Berlin, they don't call this special pancake a 'Berliner').

RL

nick webster · Feb 28, 2019

R Liewenberger said:
Foto64 said:

They pronounce W different they say BMV.

Click to expand...

If a German would pronounce your 'BMV' it would sound like 'Bé-Am-Fow' (no longer meaning 'Bayerische Motorenwerke', but 'Bundesministerium der Verteidigung', Department of Defense'). :-D

Your English pronunciation and spelling is not the measure of all things! Different language, different spelling, different pronunciation.

BMW is a German term so German pronunciation should apply. That means when a German pronounces BMW, it will sound correctly.

But different regions of Germany pronounce words differently

The same as the UK, which is why I posted about how "grass" should be pronounced in reply to the OP. Ask 10 different people and you'd get 10 slightly different pronunciations ;-)

R Liewenberger said:
Telling him it has to be pronounced like BMV won't make any sense to him. It only might help a first-language-English person who has no idea about any other languages.

Your 'V-workaround' reminds me of Kennedy, when visiting Berlin in the early sixties. He wanted to say 'I am a Berliner' in German. That German language sentence would have been 'Ich bin ein Berliner'. Obviously he didn't know much about German and German pronunciation, so they wrote a little note for him, making this 'Ich bin ein Berliner' look like 'Ish been ine Bur-leaner' or something similar. :-D

(And no, it didn't mean 'I'm a pancake'! At least in Berlin, they don't call this special pancake a 'Berliner').

I always thought it meant he was a sausage - like the Frankfurter

Nick

R Liewenberger said:
RL

Jacques Cornell · Feb 28, 2019

rurikw said:
Antisthenes said:

Chris Noble said:

Pete_CSCS said:

Now I just started watching this new video and the Asian model corrects the photographer on how to pronounce the name. Watch at about 1:10 into it.

Now it's two syllables and the accent is on the 1st? Is this correct? What say you?

Click to expand...

She says "Zoo-ee-ko" twice, with a slight accent on the "zoo" and a stronger accent on the "ko".

It's a bit subtle because accenting in Japanese is somewhat flexible, depending on the intention of the speaker.

I've spent a lot of time in Japan, saying words constructed that way and having them said to me.

Click to expand...

Her pronunciation is a bit questionable, because her "ko" sounds a bit short, while it should be long.

The problem with Japanese words transliterated into the Latin alphabet — like "ZUIKO" — is that the original Kanji semantics get lost, which sometimes makes it difficult to tell, even for a native speaker, whether a sound should be short or long.

KO could for example mean child/子, e.g. as in MICHIKO / 美智子, a common female first name, and should then be short.

KO could also mean light/光, as e.g. in ZUIKO / 瑞光, a word meaning "auspicious / divine light", and chosen by Olympus as a brand name for their lenses, and the sound shoud be long.

Here's an example of the "official" pronunciation of ZUIKO, the "KO" being long:

The difference in length might be subtle, and is a bit similar to the first syllable in "commit" being short, while it's long in "call".

Click to expand...

Thanks, that was great and very different from the op's link. A distinct i and long o, 3 syllables.

The difference in pronunciation between individual Japanese could well be regional. When I lived in Tokyo and watched TV news programs where folks on the northern island of Hokkaido were being interviewed, the programs actually carried subtitles. Imagine a Boston news show subtitling an interview with someone from, say, Missouri or California.

stevewmn · Feb 28, 2019

jeffharris said:
R Liewenberger said:

Pete_CSCS said:

JakeJY said:

This whole discussion reminds me of arguments about "Porsh" vs "Porsha" for pronouncing Porsche. While the latter is the official pronunciation, I think you will get some eye rolls in the USA and people will think you are pretentious if you pronounce it with the latter (unless you were a native German speaker or company rep).

Click to expand...

Well I have heard other Americans use the pronunciation "Porsch" which I hate hearing.

Click to expand...

Yes, 'Porsch' sounds awfully wrong!

Click to expand...

No kidding. Porsche is Porsche

It's like those fools (in the US at least) who say bimmer and not Beamer for BMW.

I thought the convention was to use Bimmer if it has two wheels and Beamer if it has four wheels.

R Liewenberger · Feb 28, 2019

nick webster said:
R Liewenberger said:

Foto64 said:

They pronounce W different they say BMV.

Click to expand...

If a German would pronounce your 'BMV' it would sound like 'Bé-Am-Fow' (no longer meaning 'Bayerische Motorenwerke', but 'Bundesministerium der Verteidigung', Department of Defense'). :-D

Your English pronunciation and spelling is not the measure of all things! Different language, different spelling, different pronunciation.

BMW is a German term so German pronunciation should apply. That means when a German pronounces BMW, it will sound correctly.

Click to expand...

But different regions of Germany pronounce words differently The same as the UK, which is why I posted about how "grass" should be pronounced in reply to the OP. Ask 10 different people and you'd get 10 slightly different pronunciations ;-)

Yes, Nick, when it is about words you will find slightly different pronunciations, depending on where you are. But this 'BMW' is just three letters, not really a word, so you won't hear a difference when comparing the pronunciation in e.g. Hamburg vs Munich or Cologne vs Berlin.

nick webster said:
nick webster said:

Telling him it has to be pronounced like BMV won't make any sense to him. It only might help a first-language-English person who has no idea about any other languages.

Your 'V-workaround' reminds me of Kennedy, when visiting Berlin in the early sixties. He wanted to say 'I am a Berliner' in German. That German language sentence would have been 'Ich bin ein Berliner'. Obviously he didn't know much about German and German pronunciation, so they wrote a little note for him, making this 'Ich bin ein Berliner' look like 'Ish been ine Bur-leaner' or something similar. :-D

(And no, it didn't mean 'I'm a pancake'! At least in Berlin, they don't call this special pancake a 'Berliner').

Click to expand...

I always thought it meant he was a sausage - like the Frankfurter

This is what we call a 'Berliner'.

https://www.oetker.de/rezepte/r/berliner.html

And this would be 'an American', ein 'Amerikaner':

While this horror tool is what we call an 'Engländer', 'an Englishman'. :-D

In some regions they are called 'Franzose', 'Frenchman'.

Old farmers seem to like these Engländer/Franzosen, but for them it is usually about older and more massive versions like these here: https://picclick.de/Altes-Werkzeug-Engländer-Franzose-263738833109.html

RL

bobn2 · Feb 28, 2019

R Liewenberger said:
While this horror tool is what we call an 'Engländer', 'an Englishman'. :-D

Depends on the Englishman

%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%8B%D1%87%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9-%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B1-17.jpg

--
Ride easy, William.
Bob

nick webster · Feb 28, 2019

R Liewenberger said:
nick webster said:

R Liewenberger said:

Foto64 said:

They pronounce W different they say BMV.

Click to expand...

If a German would pronounce your 'BMV' it would sound like 'Bé-Am-Fow' (no longer meaning 'Bayerische Motorenwerke', but 'Bundesministerium der Verteidigung', Department of Defense'). :-D

Your English pronunciation and spelling is not the measure of all things! Different language, different spelling, different pronunciation.

BMW is a German term so German pronunciation should apply. That means when a German pronounces BMW, it will sound correctly.

Click to expand...

But different regions of Germany pronounce words differently The same as the UK, which is why I posted about how "grass" should be pronounced in reply to the OP. Ask 10 different people and you'd get 10 slightly different pronunciations ;-)

Click to expand...

Yes, Nick, when it is about words you will find slightly different pronunciations, depending on where you are. But this 'BMW' is just three letters, not really a word, so you won't hear a difference when comparing the pronunciation in e.g. Hamburg vs Munich or Cologne vs Berlin.

Sorry, yes I was talking about words - I am willing to bet that the OP's choice of "Zuiko" is pronounced differently by different regions in Japan ;-)

R Liewenberger said:
R Liewenberger said:

R Liewenberger said:

Telling him it has to be pronounced like BMV won't make any sense to him. It only might help a first-language-English person who has no idea about any other languages.

Your 'V-workaround' reminds me of Kennedy, when visiting Berlin in the early sixties. He wanted to say 'I am a Berliner' in German. That German language sentence would have been 'Ich bin ein Berliner'. Obviously he didn't know much about German and German pronunciation, so they wrote a little note for him, making this 'Ich bin ein Berliner' look like 'Ish been ine Bur-leaner' or something similar. :-D

(And no, it didn't mean 'I'm a pancake'! At least in Berlin, they don't call this special pancake a 'Berliner').

Click to expand...

I always thought it meant he was a sausage - like the Frankfurter

Click to expand...

This is what we call a 'Berliner'.

Looks like a doughnut

R Liewenberger said:
Loading…

www.oetker.de

And this would be 'an American', ein 'Amerikaner':

While this horror tool is what we call an 'Engländer', 'an Englishman'. :-D

In some regions they are called 'Franzose', 'Frenchman'.

That's commonly known as a "shifter" over here, I have one in my overalls at work, saves carrying round about 6 different spanners ;-)

Nick

R Liewenberger said:
Old farmers seem to like these Engländer/Franzosen, but for them it is usually about older and more massive versions like these here: https://picclick.de/Altes-Werkzeug-Engländer-Franzose-263738833109.html

RL

jalywol · Feb 28, 2019

Aggggghhhh

-J

Jacques Cornell · Feb 28, 2019

jalywol said:
Aggggghhhh

-J

That's easy. It's "boke" followed by the Canadian interrogative.

3dwag · Feb 28, 2019

Jacques Cornell said:
jalywol said:

Aggggghhhh

-J

Click to expand...

That's easy. It's "boke" followed by the Canadian interrogative.

Excellent!

But what we really need is this guy:

Foto64 · Feb 28, 2019

Listen to this

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Pronouncing "Zuiko" correctly

eques

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eques

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rurikw

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rurikw

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R Liewenberger

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nick webster

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Jacques Cornell

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R Liewenberger

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