I started birdfotography with a Canon 70D + Canon 400 F 5.6, and now i use the Canon 7D mark ii + Canon 100-400 II F 4.5-5.6. With this combo i like the stabilizer e the low weight, but sometimes i feel its that 400mm it´s a little short. Also, with low light the ISO has too much grain. I dont like the Canon 1.4x III. The image quality is bad. So i'm prepared to upgrade the gear. IS it better to change to a combo like NIKON D 500 + 200-500 F/5.6 VR or uprade the lens to a Canon 500 F/4?
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Upgrde Canon 100-400 f 4.5-5.6 to 500 f/4 or Nikon 200-500 f 5.6
- Thread starter pkashmir
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Morris0
Forum Pro
Take note that you are not adding that much reach going from 400mm to 500mm. While both setups you are considering will take a 1.4x TC to get you the reach you will sometimes need, the 500 f4 will take one better. There is a large trade off in weight and cost.
Morris
Greyser
Veteran Member
There is also fantastic Sigma 500/4 available.
If your problem is noise/grain, changing lenses won’t cure this, just give you another stop or two. Many people produce wonderful images using the equipment you have. Either of your proposed changes are bigger and heavier than what you have. That lens you have is a really good compromise between portability, usability and image quality. I wish they did it with a Nikon mount!
Do you have a tendentious underexpose and have to brighten up on the computer? If so this will accentuate shadow noise which Canon exhibits. You can reduce this by exposing to the right. (Google it.)
Do you ignore the limitations of your sensor and use too high an ISO? Stick to 1600 or below and in sunshine try to use 400. If it is too dark you cannot beat physics. Sometimes you have to accept it is too dark without flash.
Do you take Jpegs and try to do too much in post that accentuates the artifacts inherent in a JPEG. If so start taking RAW as they allow much more manipulation to get the image how you want it.
Are you using a good noise reduction software. If not you will never be happy. Take RAW and as a first step apply noise reduction using something like Topaz Denoise which has presets for each ISO setting for you camera. If you are relying on the camera or some simple programs you are really missing out.
Are you trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear as they say in England? If your pictures are slightly underexposed, slightly out of focus/blurred and at a high ISO then when you apply sharpening you will sharpen the noise more than the image.
Finally are you using a filter on your lens? You are the only person I’ve ever seen who did not think the 1.4x III worked very well with your lens. I used one with a mkII and it was so good I left it on most of the time only losing a stop and a little bit of autofocus speed. However if there was a busy background or highlight spots (such as sparkles on water against the light) I had to take the protective filter off the front or the pictures were most odd. I’ll try to look out pictures of what I mean. Anyway if you do have a filter, try taking it off for a trial.
Do you have a tendentious underexpose and have to brighten up on the computer? If so this will accentuate shadow noise which Canon exhibits. You can reduce this by exposing to the right. (Google it.)
Do you ignore the limitations of your sensor and use too high an ISO? Stick to 1600 or below and in sunshine try to use 400. If it is too dark you cannot beat physics. Sometimes you have to accept it is too dark without flash.
Do you take Jpegs and try to do too much in post that accentuates the artifacts inherent in a JPEG. If so start taking RAW as they allow much more manipulation to get the image how you want it.
Are you using a good noise reduction software. If not you will never be happy. Take RAW and as a first step apply noise reduction using something like Topaz Denoise which has presets for each ISO setting for you camera. If you are relying on the camera or some simple programs you are really missing out.
Are you trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear as they say in England? If your pictures are slightly underexposed, slightly out of focus/blurred and at a high ISO then when you apply sharpening you will sharpen the noise more than the image.
Finally are you using a filter on your lens? You are the only person I’ve ever seen who did not think the 1.4x III worked very well with your lens. I used one with a mkII and it was so good I left it on most of the time only losing a stop and a little bit of autofocus speed. However if there was a busy background or highlight spots (such as sparkles on water against the light) I had to take the protective filter off the front or the pictures were most odd. I’ll try to look out pictures of what I mean. Anyway if you do have a filter, try taking it off for a trial.
That combo, ( lens,TC & body) usually works well together. The AF may need to be tweaked. The same lens / TC combo on my 80D needed a different AFMA value than the bare lens. You way want to try that first.
Also can you post a pic that you feel is bad with the combo? May help us help you.
Also can you post a pic that you feel is bad with the combo? May help us help you.
1elementin7groups
Veteran Member
I used to have the Canon (7D2, 5D2, 1Dmk4) Canon 500mm f4 and the 1.4x converter worked on all of them fine. My issue with the 7D was that anything over ISO 800 seemed too noisy. I got frustrated with the noise levels and sold the camera. I do not mean to offend any 7D owners, this was my experience when I owned it.
Your sig lists that you currently have the D500. Very capable camera for birds, and noise is well contained and fairly easy to treat in post. I do not think you could go wrong with a 200-500, a 500mm f4 or, *gasp!* if you can find one, a 500mm PF. I find the 500mm PF can also handle the 1.4x converter, although you do lose some AF points.
Also, at least on the Nikon side, 500mm f4 G lenses seem to be at bargain prices. I recently sold mine so I could get the 500mm PF. After 2 months trying to sell the 500mm f4 I netted the exact amount needed to pay for the 500 PF. Look around, the 500mm f4 G is a fantastic lens. The 500mm f4 with 1.4x or 1.7x is an excellent birding kit.
Dave
Your sig lists that you currently have the D500. Very capable camera for birds, and noise is well contained and fairly easy to treat in post. I do not think you could go wrong with a 200-500, a 500mm f4 or, *gasp!* if you can find one, a 500mm PF. I find the 500mm PF can also handle the 1.4x converter, although you do lose some AF points.
Also, at least on the Nikon side, 500mm f4 G lenses seem to be at bargain prices. I recently sold mine so I could get the 500mm PF. After 2 months trying to sell the 500mm f4 I netted the exact amount needed to pay for the 500 PF. Look around, the 500mm f4 G is a fantastic lens. The 500mm f4 with 1.4x or 1.7x is an excellent birding kit.
Dave
Morris0
Forum Pro
That selling experience is quite interesting Dave. I ran into some used camera stores that offered very little for the Sigma 150-600 Sport. People seem to want the lighter contemporary. I wonder how long it will be till we see a 3-lb 150-600 and also wonder who will do it. I've effectively got that with the Fuji 100-400 + 1.4x TC.
Morris
1elementin7groups
Veteran Member
Yes Morris, and the market for equipment is exciting right now. We have more choices for long lenses than ever before, and the lenses are lighter and sharper and affordable.
Dave
Thanks for your opinion. I've tried the Canon 1.4 x III but the image quality is very bad.
Your problem is not with the 1.4 lll, it’s with your 7D2 and that combination. I had the same issue years ago. I went through 4 7D2s and sold them all.
I use the 1.4 lll and have it glued to my 400 DO ll, 600 F4 ll and to the 500 F 4 ll before I sold it. The IQ is exceptional, but now just using FF.
Not sure what your thoughts are on weight, but If I were you, I’d go with either the D500 or D850 with the 500 F5.6 pf at this point in time.
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