OK all you experts... my turn for some advice

mike lix · Dec 4, 2018

Jerry-astro said:
mike lix said:

georgehudetz said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

Lukedriftwood said:

Did you turn off IBIS for those shots? In some cases IBIS could cause blurry corners with wide angle lens.

Click to expand...

Well I also suggested this might be a possibility earlier but Jerry doesn't think so. In an ideal world it wouldn't, but we have to accept this is Fuji's first attempt at IBIS and so it may be a bit glitchy from time to time.

Click to expand...

I don't think this is IBIS or even shutter shock related. Jerrry provided me the raws, and looking at them in CaptureOne, on the 8mm shot, the tree is reasonably detailed, particularly given that it's ISO 1600. A little soft perhaps but not terrible. Yet the rock & moss right next to it (and at the same depth) are obviously soft.

Also, as others have observed, the flare from the (blown) highlights is just awful. I've never seen A Fujinon do that. Some cheap, fast primes, when shot wide-open, sure. But not Fuji glass.

Additionally, the as-shot WB has a very weird purple tint to it. Perhaps the flare is causing the firmware to overcompensate; not sure.

Anyway, I agree with Jerry - this lens in a bad copy. I'd be shocked if this is the as-expected behavior.

Here is a center crop from C1 of the 8mm shot.

Click to expand...

When looking at this picture I am starting to think that it is a bit backfocused. Look at the difference in sharpness between the tree and the green leaves behind it.

Click to expand...

The DOF should be more than adequate for this to be all in focus. What's more, it doesn't account for the center being far sharper than the edges. I'm quite certain this is not a DOF issue at all, particularly at that FL.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod

I understand. But it could be one part of the issue.

FL is not everything, it's about the FOV in focus distance. Just compare in any DOF calculator two FLs - 90mm at f/5 and then say 16mm at f/5. If the FOV is same, the DOF is same. It's just with longer FLs the falloff is much more evident, not that evident with wide lenses (and some do tend to call it soft lenses while not focusing exactly at what they wanted to). And f/5 is not that much.

In other thread I also noticed some significant focal plane curvature with 16-55/2.8 lens, this could be similar story. I don't have a clue what the focal plane shape could be, but I am starting to think that it could move further back towards the edges. It would be interesting to see where the focal plane would be in the center of the image if you focused at each of the corners separately. It doesn't mean the lens isn't decentered, though.

And the fringing is horrible, I would return it even if this was the only problem. The Zeiss 12mm is a gem in terms of CA, isn't it

--
www.instagram.com/michal.placek.fotograf
www.facebook.com/michal.placek.fotograf
500px.com/mikepl500px

baobob · Dec 4, 2018

below is a link to a french youtube devoted to the lens The reviewer clearly says that at 8mm the IQ is not in line with the usual Fujinon IQ....

Bob

Pan50 · Dec 4, 2018

Hi Jerry,

I’m less concerned with the blurry right / left hand corner (which I can’t tell if it’s blurry or not) than with the subject matter being photographed, the bad light, poor composition ... I mean, we all need to get the hell outside and take some cool pictures and get inspired and spend less time messing around with equipment and lenses.

If you put up a brilliant composition or something and someone on this board shot it down cause the corner wasn’t sharp then shame on them!

Sorry to be critical but we’ve had bad weather here and I can’t get out to shoot and have bad cabin fever. Stand by my comments though. Cheers mate

Erik Baumgartner · Dec 4, 2018

Jerry-astro said:
Erik Baumgartner said:

Thanks, Jerry. I don’t care about AF in an UWA, but how does the 10-24 compare at 12mm to the Rokinon for architecture and landscapes? How is it wide open at f/4?

Click to expand...

If AF is out of the equation, then the Rokinon would like be an excellent choice. I don’t own that lens at the moment — my 12mm prime is the Zeiss 12.

I did use the 10-24 a while back for interior shots, particularly cathedrals. It did a superb job there and at this point will be my go to lens for those sorts of interiors when traveling. I can’t speak to landscapes yet, thought I’ve read some pretty positive results in the forum from people who’ve used it for that purpose.

Thanks Gerry,

I’ll likely give the Rokinon a go, it looks to be a great and affordable option for astrophography if nothing else. It would be great if Fuji made a sub-$1K premium fast UWA prime. I guess I’ll wait some more.

Jerry-astro · Dec 4, 2018

Pan50 said:
Hi Jerry,

I’m less concerned with the blurry right / left hand corner (which I can’t tell if it’s blurry or not) than with the subject matter being photographed, the bad light, poor composition ... I mean, we all need to get the hell outside and take some cool pictures and get inspired and spend less time messing around with equipment and lenses.

If you put up a brilliant composition or something and someone on this board shot it down cause the corner wasn’t sharp then shame on them!

Sorry to be critical but we’ve had bad weather here and I can’t get out to shoot and have bad cabin fever. Stand by my comments though. Cheers mate

Thanks... not at all helpful, and felt more like a lecture, but thanks anyway.

BTW, not sure I see the issue with the composition, though the light certainly could have been better. None of that explains the results I’m seeing, and that was the focus of the post, not a critique on composition or lighting. I’ve shot this tree many times under a wide variety of conditions, so I’m pretty clear on how the get the optimal image. My purpose here was to test the lens under real world conditions after seeing some iffy results using a test chart. It was not intended to be an entry in the “photo of the year” contest.

Perhaps this might be a bit more to your liking (though taken with my old Canon... just intended to be an example):

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod

rwbaron · Dec 4, 2018

Jerry-astro said:
Pan50 said:

Hi Jerry,

I’m less concerned with the blurry right / left hand corner (which I can’t tell if it’s blurry or not) than with the subject matter being photographed, the bad light, poor composition ... I mean, we all need to get the hell outside and take some cool pictures and get inspired and spend less time messing around with equipment and lenses.

If you put up a brilliant composition or something and someone on this board shot it down cause the corner wasn’t sharp then shame on them!

Sorry to be critical but we’ve had bad weather here and I can’t get out to shoot and have bad cabin fever. Stand by my comments though. Cheers mate

Click to expand...

Thanks... not at all helpful, and felt more like a lecture, but thanks anyway.

BTW, not sure I see the issue with the composition, though the light certainly could have been better. None of that explains the results I’m seeing, and that was the focus of the post, not a critique on composition or lighting. I’ve shot this tree many times under a wide variety of conditions, so I’m pretty clear on how the get the optimal image. My purpose here was to test the lens under real world conditions after seeing some iffy results using a test chart. It was not intended to be an entry in the “photo of the year” contest.

Perhaps this might be a bit more to your liking:

That's a gorgeous shot Jerry and I hope you've got a quality print hanging somewhere in your home.

--

Galleries by Robert W. Baron

www.pbase.com

Jerry-astro · Dec 4, 2018

rwbaron said:
Jerry-astro said:

Pan50 said:

Hi Jerry,

I’m less concerned with the blurry right / left hand corner (which I can’t tell if it’s blurry or not) than with the subject matter being photographed, the bad light, poor composition ... I mean, we all need to get the hell outside and take some cool pictures and get inspired and spend less time messing around with equipment and lenses.

If you put up a brilliant composition or something and someone on this board shot it down cause the corner wasn’t sharp then shame on them!

Sorry to be critical but we’ve had bad weather here and I can’t get out to shoot and have bad cabin fever. Stand by my comments though. Cheers mate

Click to expand...

Thanks... not at all helpful, and felt more like a lecture, but thanks anyway.

BTW, not sure I see the issue with the composition, though the light certainly could have been better. None of that explains the results I’m seeing, and that was the focus of the post, not a critique on composition or lighting. I’ve shot this tree many times under a wide variety of conditions, so I’m pretty clear on how the get the optimal image. My purpose here was to test the lens under real world conditions after seeing some iffy results using a test chart. It was not intended to be an entry in the “photo of the year” contest.

Perhaps this might be a bit more to your liking:

Click to expand...

That's a gorgeous shot Jerry and I hope you've got a quality print hanging somewhere in your home.

Thank you, Bob! Actually, this is the one hanging on the wall at 20x30". Taken with my X-T2 and Zeiss Touit 12 lens.

Amazing tree indeed. Alas, we missed it this year and were out of town during the relatively brief high color season. I fully admit to being obsessed with that tree. It's simply gorgeous, particularly in the Fall.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod

rwbaron · Dec 4, 2018

Marco Cinnirella said:
I think you made the right choice to return it. Looks to me as if it is likely to be de-centered.

I note you say use of IBIS is irrelevant but you do know Jerry through correspondence we have had that I am trying to document some occasional oddities I am experiencing with the X-H1 IBIS sometimes inexplicably causing softness. FYI when that happens the softness is not always evenly distributed within an image. Were it me I might have also been tempted to just test it on another body to be 100% sure it is not having some kind of weird interaction with the IBIS system. I doubt it is, and I think it is more likely to be a bad sample of the lens, but the scientist in me would be intrigued.

Good luck anyway, if you try another copy, and happy shooting !

Marco,

I've not been able to find an answer to this question but maybe you have one. When the X-H1 IBIS is turned off does the sensor sit in a "parked and locked" position or is it free to move? I believe Sony's IBIS implementation has a parked and locked position where the sensor returns to and is secured in place. Panasonic on the other had does not and the sensor is free to move (jiggle) from camera movement.

Seeing as this is 5 axis IBIS I'm curious if the sensor does not return to a parked-locked position would it be possible for softness to occur in corners of the frame dependent on what position the sensor was in. I saw a video of the sensor in the Panasonic GH5 on a moving vehicle with IBIS off and it was freely moving around which I found disturbing.

I would like to think the engineers would think of this but one never knows.

Bob

rwbaron · Dec 4, 2018

Jerry-astro said:
rwbaron said:

Jerry-astro said:

Pan50 said:

Hi Jerry,

I’m less concerned with the blurry right / left hand corner (which I can’t tell if it’s blurry or not) than with the subject matter being photographed, the bad light, poor composition ... I mean, we all need to get the hell outside and take some cool pictures and get inspired and spend less time messing around with equipment and lenses.

If you put up a brilliant composition or something and someone on this board shot it down cause the corner wasn’t sharp then shame on them!

Sorry to be critical but we’ve had bad weather here and I can’t get out to shoot and have bad cabin fever. Stand by my comments though. Cheers mate

Click to expand...

Thanks... not at all helpful, and felt more like a lecture, but thanks anyway.

BTW, not sure I see the issue with the composition, though the light certainly could have been better. None of that explains the results I’m seeing, and that was the focus of the post, not a critique on composition or lighting. I’ve shot this tree many times under a wide variety of conditions, so I’m pretty clear on how the get the optimal image. My purpose here was to test the lens under real world conditions after seeing some iffy results using a test chart. It was not intended to be an entry in the “photo of the year” contest.

Perhaps this might be a bit more to your liking:

Click to expand...

That's a gorgeous shot Jerry and I hope you've got a quality print hanging somewhere in your home.

Click to expand...

Thank you, Bob! Actually, this is the one hanging on the wall at 20x30". Taken with my X-T2 and Zeiss Touit 12 lens.

Amazing tree indeed. Alas, we missed it this year and were out of town during the relatively brief high color season. I fully admit to being obsessed with that tree. It's simply gorgeous, particularly in the Fall.

Beautiful light and both are phenomenal photographs and I can see why you're obsessed.

Good to hear the Fuji got preference for the wall. ;-)

Bob

--

http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron

h andersen · Dec 4, 2018

I think you need a second lens to confirm if this lens is OK or not.

It looks like the focus plane is S-shaped. Tree trunk OK, but the rock is not.

The foliage/pond behind the tree is OK.

I you focused on the tree trunk, I would say that it was back focused, but mirrorless don't do this. (?)

Strange. Creating a lens this wide is a nightmare, and a zoom way beyond nightmare.

Jerry-astro · Dec 4, 2018

h andersen said:
I think you need a second lens to confirm if this lens is OK or not.

It looks like the focus plane is S-shaped. Tree trunk OK, but the rock is not.

The foliage/pond behind the tree is OK.

I you focused on the tree trunk, I would say that it was back focused, but mirrorless don't do this. (?)

Strange. Creating a lens this wide is a nightmare, and a zoom way beyond nightmare.

Certainly good advice, but I'm done. I've been to this rodeo before with the 10-24, and did ultimately get an excellent copy on the 2nd try. Having been thru that already, I'm not interested in going thru it again. Fuji have some QA issues to deal with here and, at least in this case, I'm not so much interested in functioning as an unpaid QA department.

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend or not recommend that lens, since others may have a better experience than I did. It is indicative of some QA challenges associated with such a specialized piece of glass. Fortunately, the 10-24 meets my needs here and I can live with the one stop aperture difference.

I'm not posting all this simply to grumble, BTW (although I admit to being a bit grumpy about it). Mostly because I hope the experience might be valuable to others here and as a way to encourage folks to thoroughly vet out new lenses in real world environments, not just test charts.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod

Lukedriftwood · Dec 4, 2018

rwbaron said:
Marco Cinnirella said:

I think you made the right choice to return it. Looks to me as if it is likely to be de-centered.

I note you say use of IBIS is irrelevant but you do know Jerry through correspondence we have had that I am trying to document some occasional oddities I am experiencing with the X-H1 IBIS sometimes inexplicably causing softness. FYI when that happens the softness is not always evenly distributed within an image. Were it me I might have also been tempted to just test it on another body to be 100% sure it is not having some kind of weird interaction with the IBIS system. I doubt it is, and I think it is more likely to be a bad sample of the lens, but the scientist in me would be intrigued.

Good luck anyway, if you try another copy, and happy shooting !

Click to expand...

Marco,

I've not been able to find an answer to this question but maybe you have one. When the X-H1 IBIS is turned off does the sensor sit in a "parked and locked" position or is it free to move? I believe Sony's IBIS implementation has a parked and locked position where the sensor returns to and is secured in place. Panasonic on the other had does not and the sensor is free to move (jiggle) from camera movement.

Seeing as this is 5 axis IBIS I'm curious if the sensor does not return to a parked-locked position would it be possible for softness to occur in corners of the frame dependent on what position the sensor was in. I saw a video of the sensor in the Panasonic GH5 on a moving vehicle with IBIS off and it was freely moving around which I found disturbing.

I would like to think the engineers would think of this but one never knows.

Bob

All IBIS mechanisms secure/lock sensor in place when switched off, using magnetism. Vibrations can occur when subject to rigorous motion (that GH5 video showing vibration was mounted on a sand buggy).

Marco Cinnirella · Dec 4, 2018

rwbaron said:
Marco Cinnirella said:

I think you made the right choice to return it. Looks to me as if it is likely to be de-centered.

I note you say use of IBIS is irrelevant but you do know Jerry through correspondence we have had that I am trying to document some occasional oddities I am experiencing with the X-H1 IBIS sometimes inexplicably causing softness. FYI when that happens the softness is not always evenly distributed within an image. Were it me I might have also been tempted to just test it on another body to be 100% sure it is not having some kind of weird interaction with the IBIS system. I doubt it is, and I think it is more likely to be a bad sample of the lens, but the scientist in me would be intrigued.

Good luck anyway, if you try another copy, and happy shooting !

Click to expand...

Marco,

I've not been able to find an answer to this question but maybe you have one. When the X-H1 IBIS is turned off does the sensor sit in a "parked and locked" position or is it free to move? I believe Sony's IBIS implementation has a parked and locked position where the sensor returns to and is secured in place. Panasonic on the other had does not and the sensor is free to move (jiggle) from camera movement.

Seeing as this is 5 axis IBIS I'm curious if the sensor does not return to a parked-locked position would it be possible for softness to occur in corners of the frame dependent on what position the sensor was in. I saw a video of the sensor in the Panasonic GH5 on a moving vehicle with IBIS off and it was freely moving around which I found disturbing.

I would like to think the engineers would think of this but one never knows.

Bob

Bob, probably a subject for another thread, but all I can say is I have used IBIS-equipped cameras for many years now - from the likes of Panasonic, Olympus and Sony, and now the X-H1. FWIW I love my X-H1, BUT I inexplicably get some shots during every shoot that are just plain weird, because they exhibit either total softness even with AF confirmation, a decent shutter speed for the focal length, and a relatively stopped down aperture, or else I get weird shots where part of the image is soft, part in focus, with no rhyme or reason such as DOF or field curvature. I've come to the conclusion that Fuji's implementation of IBIS has some apparent quirks that my years' experience of IBIS with other brands has not equipped me with expertise in. I might get to the bottom of it one day, but for now it is a mystery. In regards to your specific Q - I believe the X-H1 sensor does not fully 'park'. Whether that could cause problems - I'm honestly not sure, but surely they tested for this when designing it? Anyways, let's see if the incoming December fw might shake things up a bit in terms of the IBIS. (sorry about the italics - an accidental keypress and then I couldn't remove it)

Marco Cinnirella · Dec 4, 2018

Jerry-astro said:
rwbaron said:

Jerry-astro said:

Pan50 said:

Hi Jerry,

I’m less concerned with the blurry right / left hand corner (which I can’t tell if it’s blurry or not) than with the subject matter being photographed, the bad light, poor composition ... I mean, we all need to get the hell outside and take some cool pictures and get inspired and spend less time messing around with equipment and lenses.

If you put up a brilliant composition or something and someone on this board shot it down cause the corner wasn’t sharp then shame on them!

Sorry to be critical but we’ve had bad weather here and I can’t get out to shoot and have bad cabin fever. Stand by my comments though. Cheers mate

Click to expand...

Thanks... not at all helpful, and felt more like a lecture, but thanks anyway.

BTW, not sure I see the issue with the composition, though the light certainly could have been better. None of that explains the results I’m seeing, and that was the focus of the post, not a critique on composition or lighting. I’ve shot this tree many times under a wide variety of conditions, so I’m pretty clear on how the get the optimal image. My purpose here was to test the lens under real world conditions after seeing some iffy results using a test chart. It was not intended to be an entry in the “photo of the year” contest.

Perhaps this might be a bit more to your liking:

Click to expand...

That's a gorgeous shot Jerry and I hope you've got a quality print hanging somewhere in your home.

Click to expand...

Thank you, Bob! Actually, this is the one hanging on the wall at 20x30". Taken with my X-T2 and Zeiss Touit 12 lens.

Amazing tree indeed. Alas, we missed it this year and were out of town during the relatively brief high color season. I fully admit to being obsessed with that tree. It's simply gorgeous, particularly in the Fall.

Wowser Jerry, what a stunning tree and an excellent capture of it - the color is incredible

--

Marco Cinnirella

Explore Marco Cinnirella’s 476 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

KariP · Dec 4, 2018

Jerry-astro said:
h andersen said:

I think you need a second lens to confirm if this lens is OK or not.

It looks like the focus plane is S-shaped. Tree trunk OK, but the rock is not.

The foliage/pond behind the tree is OK.

I you focused on the tree trunk, I would say that it was back focused, but mirrorless don't do this. (?)

Strange. Creating a lens this wide is a nightmare, and a zoom way beyond nightmare.

Click to expand...

Certainly good advice, but I'm done. I've been to this rodeo before with the 10-24, and did ultimately get an excellent copy on the 2nd try. Having been thru that already, I'm not interested in going thru it again. Fuji have some QA issues to deal with here and, at least in this case, I'm not so much interested in functioning as an unpaid QA department.

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend or not recommend that lens, since others may have a better experience than I did. It is indicative of some QA challenges associated with such a specialized piece of glass. Fortunately, the 10-24 meets my needs here and I can live with the one stop aperture difference.

I'm not posting all this simply to grumble, BTW (although I admit to being a bit grumpy about it). Mostly because I hope the experience might be valuable to others here and as a way to encourage folks to thoroughly vet out new lenses in real world environments, not just test charts.

Yes the IQ varies in a strange way - my bad old Canon 17-85 did something like that and more...

Anyway i just had a fast look at the sharpness of my brand new 10-24 and it looks much better.

"Fast" WA zoom lenses are problematic and in some way also primes - i got a "bargain" Sigma 20f1,4 and i have used it with my old 6D. IQ is stunning from former to corner But the weight - body + the lens is something that i can not take with me on a walk

10-24 OIS zoom is close to perfection - f4 is not very sexy, but it is just good enough for everything - and very portable. 8-16 f2,8 is tempting on paper , but obviously not in real life...

My 10-24 "test" at f 8

--
Kari
I started SLR photography in 1968, first DSLR was Canon 40D in 2007. Now Fujifilm X-E3 and the new 80D are my favourites - also 6D for landscapes and some portraits.

Marco Cinnirella · Dec 4, 2018

KariP said:
Jerry-astro said:

h andersen said:

I think you need a second lens to confirm if this lens is OK or not.

It looks like the focus plane is S-shaped. Tree trunk OK, but the rock is not.

The foliage/pond behind the tree is OK.

I you focused on the tree trunk, I would say that it was back focused, but mirrorless don't do this. (?)

Strange. Creating a lens this wide is a nightmare, and a zoom way beyond nightmare.

Click to expand...

Certainly good advice, but I'm done. I've been to this rodeo before with the 10-24, and did ultimately get an excellent copy on the 2nd try. Having been thru that already, I'm not interested in going thru it again. Fuji have some QA issues to deal with here and, at least in this case, I'm not so much interested in functioning as an unpaid QA department.

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend or not recommend that lens, since others may have a better experience than I did. It is indicative of some QA challenges associated with such a specialized piece of glass. Fortunately, the 10-24 meets my needs here and I can live with the one stop aperture difference.

I'm not posting all this simply to grumble, BTW (although I admit to being a bit grumpy about it). Mostly because I hope the experience might be valuable to others here and as a way to encourage folks to thoroughly vet out new lenses in real world environments, not just test charts.

Click to expand...

Yes the IQ varies in a strange way - my bad old Canon 17-85 did something like that and more...

Anyway i just had a fast look at the sharpness of my brand new 10-24 and it looks much better.

"Fast" WA zoom lenses are problematic and in some way also primes - i got a "bargain" Sigma 20f1,4 and i have used it with my old 6D. IQ is stunning from former to corner But the weight - body + the lens is something that i can not take with me on a walk

10-24 OIS zoom is close to perfection - f4 is not very sexy, but it is just good enough for everything - and very portable. 8-16 f2,8 is tempting on paper , but obviously not in real life...

My 10-24 "test" at f 8

--
Kari
I started SLR photography in 1968, first DSLR was Canon 40D in 2007. Now Fujifilm X-E3 and the new 80D are my favourites - also 6D for landscapes and some portraits.

Well f4 may not sound exciting but the OIS on the 10-24 is good and even better with the X-H1

--

Marco Cinnirella

Explore Marco Cinnirella’s 476 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

Jerry-astro · Dec 4, 2018

Marco Cinnirella said:
Jerry-astro said:

rwbaron said:

Jerry-astro said:

Pan50 said:

Hi Jerry,

I’m less concerned with the blurry right / left hand corner (which I can’t tell if it’s blurry or not) than with the subject matter being photographed, the bad light, poor composition ... I mean, we all need to get the hell outside and take some cool pictures and get inspired and spend less time messing around with equipment and lenses.

If you put up a brilliant composition or something and someone on this board shot it down cause the corner wasn’t sharp then shame on them!

Sorry to be critical but we’ve had bad weather here and I can’t get out to shoot and have bad cabin fever. Stand by my comments though. Cheers mate

Click to expand...

Thanks... not at all helpful, and felt more like a lecture, but thanks anyway.

BTW, not sure I see the issue with the composition, though the light certainly could have been better. None of that explains the results I’m seeing, and that was the focus of the post, not a critique on composition or lighting. I’ve shot this tree many times under a wide variety of conditions, so I’m pretty clear on how the get the optimal image. My purpose here was to test the lens under real world conditions after seeing some iffy results using a test chart. It was not intended to be an entry in the “photo of the year” contest.

Perhaps this might be a bit more to your liking:

Click to expand...

That's a gorgeous shot Jerry and I hope you've got a quality print hanging somewhere in your home.

Click to expand...

Thank you, Bob! Actually, this is the one hanging on the wall at 20x30". Taken with my X-T2 and Zeiss Touit 12 lens.

Amazing tree indeed. Alas, we missed it this year and were out of town during the relatively brief high color season. I fully admit to being obsessed with that tree. It's simply gorgeous, particularly in the Fall.

Click to expand...

Wowser Jerry, what a stunning tree and an excellent capture of it - the color is incredible

Well, many thanks, Marco. Most of the credit goes to the subject here, I think. There’s a good reason why I keep coming back there.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod

rwbaron · Dec 4, 2018

Marco Cinnirella said:
rwbaron said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

I think you made the right choice to return it. Looks to me as if it is likely to be de-centered.

I note you say use of IBIS is irrelevant but you do know Jerry through correspondence we have had that I am trying to document some occasional oddities I am experiencing with the X-H1 IBIS sometimes inexplicably causing softness. FYI when that happens the softness is not always evenly distributed within an image. Were it me I might have also been tempted to just test it on another body to be 100% sure it is not having some kind of weird interaction with the IBIS system. I doubt it is, and I think it is more likely to be a bad sample of the lens, but the scientist in me would be intrigued.

Good luck anyway, if you try another copy, and happy shooting !

Click to expand...

Marco,

I've not been able to find an answer to this question but maybe you have one. When the X-H1 IBIS is turned off does the sensor sit in a "parked and locked" position or is it free to move? I believe Sony's IBIS implementation has a parked and locked position where the sensor returns to and is secured in place. Panasonic on the other had does not and the sensor is free to move (jiggle) from camera movement.

Seeing as this is 5 axis IBIS I'm curious if the sensor does not return to a parked-locked position would it be possible for softness to occur in corners of the frame dependent on what position the sensor was in. I saw a video of the sensor in the Panasonic GH5 on a moving vehicle with IBIS off and it was freely moving around which I found disturbing.

I would like to think the engineers would think of this but one never knows.

Bob

Click to expand...

Bob, probably a subject for another thread, but all I can say is I have used IBIS-equipped cameras for many years now - from the likes of Panasonic, Olympus and Sony, and now the X-H1. FWIW I love my X-H1, BUT I inexplicably get some shots during every shoot that are just plain weird, because they exhibit either total softness even with AF confirmation, a decent shutter speed for the focal length, and a relatively stopped down aperture, or else I get weird shots where part of the image is soft, part in focus, with no rhyme or reason such as DOF or field curvature. I've come to the conclusion that Fuji's implementation of IBIS has some apparent quirks that my years' experience of IBIS with other brands has not equipped me with expertise in. I might get to the bottom of it one day, but for now it is a mystery. In regards to your specific Q - I believe the X-H1 sensor does not fully 'park'. Whether that could cause problems - I'm honestly not sure, but surely they tested for this when designing it? Anyways, let's see if the incoming December fw might shake things up a bit in terms of the IBIS. (sorry about the italics - an accidental keypress and then I couldn't remove it)

Thanks Marco and I agree this could be the topic for a new thread.

I've tried doing research on this but not much of value has been found so far. Sensor alignment in a plane perpendicular to the optical axis is critical to attaining sharpness across the frame so I have curiosity as to how manufacturers account for this with 5 axis IBIS when IBIS is not active. I have confirmed that Sony does park and lock the sensor in a defined position but I don't know about Fuji. Panasonic apparently does not and they allow the sensor to be freely suspended in I assume a proper neutral position. I could be overly concerned but I'm not sure I'd want a camera that did not park and lock the sensor when IBIS is deactivated.

If I owned the X-H1 I would perform a simple test. I'd mount the camera on a tripod with my 56f1.2 set wide open and align properly to my test chart. I'd then set focus precisely using manual focus peaking and take a series of shots with IBIS off. I'd then activate IBIS momentarily and turn it off, tap on the camera a few times with my finger being careful not to change framing and take a few more shots. I'd compare them for differences in the 4 corners/borders. If they're all identical I'd forget about it but if there were any differences I'd be concerned.

May be much ado about nothing as one would think the engineers would take this into consideration but if so then I question why Sony and Panasonic's implementations are so different. My guess is a Sony engineer would say "of course the sensor needs to be parked and locked to ensure proper IQ and eliminate potential damage to the sensor/IBIS mechanism" whereas a Panasonic engineer would say it's not a concern and here's why.

Question is who's right?

Bob

rwbaron · Dec 4, 2018

Lukedriftwood said:
rwbaron said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

I think you made the right choice to return it. Looks to me as if it is likely to be de-centered.

I note you say use of IBIS is irrelevant but you do know Jerry through correspondence we have had that I am trying to document some occasional oddities I am experiencing with the X-H1 IBIS sometimes inexplicably causing softness. FYI when that happens the softness is not always evenly distributed within an image. Were it me I might have also been tempted to just test it on another body to be 100% sure it is not having some kind of weird interaction with the IBIS system. I doubt it is, and I think it is more likely to be a bad sample of the lens, but the scientist in me would be intrigued.

Good luck anyway, if you try another copy, and happy shooting !

Click to expand...

Marco,

I've not been able to find an answer to this question but maybe you have one. When the X-H1 IBIS is turned off does the sensor sit in a "parked and locked" position or is it free to move? I believe Sony's IBIS implementation has a parked and locked position where the sensor returns to and is secured in place. Panasonic on the other had does not and the sensor is free to move (jiggle) from camera movement.

Seeing as this is 5 axis IBIS I'm curious if the sensor does not return to a parked-locked position would it be possible for softness to occur in corners of the frame dependent on what position the sensor was in. I saw a video of the sensor in the Panasonic GH5 on a moving vehicle with IBIS off and it was freely moving around which I found disturbing.

I would like to think the engineers would think of this but one never knows.

Bob

Click to expand...

All IBIS mechanisms secure/lock sensor in place when switched off, using magnetism. Vibrations can occur when subject to rigorous motion (that GH5 video showing vibration was mounted on a sand buggy).

I wish I could find the video showing this on the GH5. That was shot with the GH5 on an ATV traveling over a snow covered path and it didn't appear to me that anything was holding that sensor in place as it was free to move. I was actually amazed at how loose the sensor was and the degree of movement allowed. If the magnets were active I don't see how the sensor could move so freely with the camera being jostled.

Bob

rwbaron · Dec 4, 2018

KariP said:
Jerry-astro said:

h andersen said:

I think you need a second lens to confirm if this lens is OK or not.

It looks like the focus plane is S-shaped. Tree trunk OK, but the rock is not.

The foliage/pond behind the tree is OK.

I you focused on the tree trunk, I would say that it was back focused, but mirrorless don't do this. (?)

Strange. Creating a lens this wide is a nightmare, and a zoom way beyond nightmare.

Click to expand...

Certainly good advice, but I'm done. I've been to this rodeo before with the 10-24, and did ultimately get an excellent copy on the 2nd try. Having been thru that already, I'm not interested in going thru it again. Fuji have some QA issues to deal with here and, at least in this case, I'm not so much interested in functioning as an unpaid QA department.

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend or not recommend that lens, since others may have a better experience than I did. It is indicative of some QA challenges associated with such a specialized piece of glass. Fortunately, the 10-24 meets my needs here and I can live with the one stop aperture difference.

I'm not posting all this simply to grumble, BTW (although I admit to being a bit grumpy about it). Mostly because I hope the experience might be valuable to others here and as a way to encourage folks to thoroughly vet out new lenses in real world environments, not just test charts.

Click to expand...

Yes the IQ varies in a strange way - my bad old Canon 17-85 did something like that and more...

Anyway i just had a fast look at the sharpness of my brand new 10-24 and it looks much better.

"Fast" WA zoom lenses are problematic and in some way also primes - i got a "bargain" Sigma 20f1,4 and i have used it with my old 6D. IQ is stunning from former to corner But the weight - body + the lens is something that i can not take with me on a walk

10-24 OIS zoom is close to perfection - f4 is not very sexy, but it is just good enough for everything - and very portable. 8-16 f2,8 is tempting on paper , but obviously not in real life...

My 10-24 "test" at f 8

Kari,

I'd rather have decent corner performance at f4 than really soft at f2.8.

For me the 10-24 has been a near perfect lens.

Bob

--

Galleries by Robert W. Baron

www.pbase.com

OK all you experts... my turn for some advice

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Leading Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Attachments

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Forum Pro

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Keyboard shortcuts